The New Face Of Welder-MUD??

[Razvan]

- doesn't particularly strengthen the deck vs. any significant weaknesses.

Not particularly, but it makes some games a lot more tolerable. A lot of games play mana denial, and this helps. Besides, a 2/2 body that people don't always want to kill (minus StP) isn't bad against anything either.

[Thug]

The problem is, unless you can bring him down turn 1, and be able to make an insanely broken play next turn, there are other things you'd rather be doing with 4 mana (beats ala fatty, or establish lock pieces).

You don't want to cast this turn 1, off course you don't, 'cause like you said, you have soo much better things to do. I don't know why you think it's included for the option of playing it first turn. If your conclusion relied on the fact that you want to play it asap, you should overthink the card again.

If not, I would be interested on how you came to the conclusion that it isn't pulling it weight.

not only that, but the simulacrum does a job that you can do with other cards more efficiently in the later game. Although he has amazing synnergy with smokestack, it doesn't seem like his inclusion is warranted simply because he's a very good turn 1 play. In the midgame, wouldn't you rather draw something to win outright instead?

If you compare is to a fetchland, Solemn is better when you have a decent amount of mana, and are not in the need to play a first turn welder. Thus Solemn is almost always better.

Later in the game a Solemn is soo much better than a fetchland/mountain. It buys turns versus creatures and cycles at the same time. It provides a nice Welder Target, etc etc.

During the past few days, in which I did some extensive testing I have learned to appreciate the card. Right now I'm pretty certain it's the best card for the job.

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I have adjusted my decklist a little bit:

-1 Sundering Titan (too often I had to wait too long to be able to cast it, and than saw it just get countered)
+1 Mind's Eye (the single Eye proved good enough in non-control matchups to warrant a second one)
+1 Wheel of Fortune (I was worried the red manabase couldn't support this card, but I have rarely had problems with this)

(61 cards again   , help me out)

This also changes some minor thing in sideboard strategy, but not much.

Versus Tog/Hulk I decided too take out all Sphere of Resistances and Keep in the Chalices and bring in #3 and #4.

I also did quite a lot of testing versus Fish, and Masticore really shines in this matchups. And Chalice wins the game 90% in you resolve it with 2 counters. I feel the sideboard strategy and options versus Fish are very good right now and shouldn't be messed with anymore.

The next test phase is going to include decks that see less play, but can be pretty hard matchups. Mainly Dragon, but also Suicide (don't laugh, null rod + 9 LD can be pretty annoying)

Koen

[orgcandman]

I'm not trying to say solemn is a bad card by ANY stretch of the imagination. It is quite amazing. However, and perhaps I'm confusing the deck with something different, I though MUD laid a soft-lock and beat with fatties. In that case, wouldn't solemn be stalling out your gameplan? With the 4 mana you could either be laying jugz, su-chi, or smokestack.
As far as creature problems go, I don't think that MUD should be having trouble with ANY of the current aggro decks. Against fish, you've got 5/3's, and 4/4's that beat for crazy card advantage. If they attack, all their creatures fly, so you can't block with your solemn anyway. In this case, most likely you'd rather be dropping some sort of soft-lock component to "timewalk" into a win (read: tangle wire or smokestack even). Against u/g madness, your creatures trade evenly, but you have an advantage in that you can weld out used moxen to recur fatties. In this case, either fat or lock components would be useful.
For control, your gameplan is to drop trinisphere and chalice ASAP. While control is trying to find answers you want fatties to take the game home. That means you'd rather top a su-chi or jugz at 4 mana than a solemn. And if you don't have chalice or trin yet, you'd love to see them rather than seeing a solemn. This much I know having played in a heavy control meta.

Again, I haven't extensively tested solemn as you have, I'm simply questioning his inclusion over other cards that can help you win right away, versus waiting.

As far as bringing down turn 1, I read the thread and saw posts explaining that he was to be dropped turn 1. This is what led me to believe that he was optimal at a turn 1-3 drop, which certainly doesn't seem to jive with ANY workshop deck's gameplan.

Aaron

[JDawg13]

For control, your gameplan is to drop trinisphere and chalice ASAP. While control is trying to find answers you want fatties to take the game home. That means you'd rather top a su-chi or jugz at 4 mana than a solemn. And if you don't have chalice or trin yet, you'd love to see them rather than seeing a solemn. This much I know having played in a heavy control meta.

Solemn's slot in the deck isn't dedicated to beatdown, it is dedicated to mana smoothing.  His inclusion plays into the synergy of the deck with Goblin Welder and Smokestack.  Also, running Solemn allows you to run a lower Mountain count than you would otherwise need to accomodate the 4 Goblin Welders.  Additionally, you already run creatures that "take the game home" when they resolve, namely Karn and Titan.  If one of these guys hits, you will find yourself in a very good position to win.  Therefore, running men like Juggernaut and Su-Chi is superfluous.

[I Against I]

I would have to agree with the people not running Solemn Simulacrum.  Ostensibly, the main reason you're running him is as a mana fixer, the rest of his abilities are just gravy.  The problem is  AEther Vial isn't a great alternative because you have to drop it before Chalice if you want X=1.

So why not try Illusionary Mask instead of AEther Vial?  It can be played after a Chalice for 1, and the one extra mana over AEther Vial shouldn't be prohibitive in a deck with so much fast mana.  I know it costs one mana to activate as well, but AEther Vial cant be activated until the next turn anyway.  I'm certainly not sure that Mask is the answer in this deck, but I also feel that Solemn is not either- he's only really fantastic when you've got an active Welder, and you should probably be winning at that point anyway.