Moxen or Moxes

[Ric_Flair]

I have been having a PM conversation with another TMDer about whether it is "moxen" or "moxes" as the plural of mox.  

His logic is that the rules of grammar dictate that it is "moxes" as the plural of a word that ends in "x" is es.

I contend that 1) since WotC made up the word "mox" and they say "moxen" that that is the correct plural; and 2) that the "es" v. "en" difference is a remnant from Ancient Greek where there was a dual or double in addition to the singular and plural of a noun and that the collapse of the dual (except in rare cases, ox, oxen, oxes) means that either "en" or "es" is grammatically correct as a plural.

What is the answer?  

Matt I am looking at you...virtually...ya know through the internet.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I vote that either is correct, and like all my grammatical determinations, it's based on the one principle I've gleaned from millions of words of text:

If it sounds right, it is.

[Kerz]

It is definitely moxen, although I say "moxes" in real life. When a word is made up, its creator decides it plural version, undoubtably.

[Matt]

Actually, when I was driving through Washington, I saw road signs that had the word 'mox' on them (they had other words but I don't remember which). I didn't know (and still don't) what it means, but I assumed Richard Garfield got the word from those. When I read he just made it up, I was shocked.

After consulting The Straight Dope:

Latin singulars in -x have plurals in -ces or -ges in Latin, but in English -ixes is usually preferred. Dominatrixes (or dominatrices), indexes (or indices), cervixes (or cervices). The bones of the fingers and toes are phalanges but infantry formations are more often phalanxes.

I proclaim the proper plural to be, in fact, 'moces'.

...

I'm sticking with 'moxen'.

[Jacob Orlove]

He derived the term from an old soft drink called "Moxie".

[Ric_Flair]

I remember reading that, but I don't get the connection...a drink that gives you courage and jewelry?  Whatever, Mox sounds cool.

PS: They still make Moxie and you can get it in some tier two or tier three grocery chains.  If I can remember I will take a picture and post it.  The stuff is terrible though with flavors that only old people like, as in Black Licorice.  Doesn't that sound thirst quenching?  Another flavor--Ginger Root.  Yuck.

[dandan]

The correct English version is simply the one that is most used - see "he is taller than 'me', "'me' too", Shakespeare and American spelling.

I prefer Moxen but progress is progress.

[TracerBullet]

You don't have a herd of Oxes....


Moxen, damnit!


But then again, you don't have many boxen...


Moxes, damnit!

[Klep]

I usually base my decision of what the correct plural is by what option sounds better.  Therefore, Moxen it is.

[Machinus]

They still make Moxie and you can get it in some tier two or tier three grocery chains.

While this is funny by itself, what's funnier is that no one decided it was strange enough to comment. Clearly this comment refers to the infamous chain, "Stax & Shop." I can see the debate beginning..."Market Basket is a better store than Ingles...it has better recycling and bigger parking lots, which gives it control in the early game."

[Bram]

It's not that hard.

The correct English plural would be 'moxes'.

The correct Dutch plural would be 'moxen'.

In modern-day magic parlance, the preferred nomenclature is 'moxen'. While this could be attributed to a variety of etymological explanations, it's obviously just more proof that dutch > english.

[Magi]

They still make Moxie and you can get it in some tier two or tier three grocery chains.

While this is funny by itself, what's funnier is that no one decided it was strange enough to comment. Clearly this comment refers to the infamous chain, "Stax & Shop." I can see the debate beginning..."Market Basket is a better store than Ingles...it has better recycling and bigger parking lots, which gives it control in the early game."

What's funnier is the "tier two tier three" classification. I'm just going to assume he grabbed that from the tier system used to rate Magic decks.

Soon, we will all be using Magic-Speak.

[wicketsnatcher]

Honestly, I've always thought "moxen" sounded really stupid and was just used by Magic players who wanted to sound elitist cause they can use their lingo.

[The Atog Lord]

he is taller than 'me'

That is incorrect, no matter who said it.

"Mox" is Latin for "soon."

Moxie is the worst thing ever.

[dandan]

He is taller than I
and
He is taller than me

are both considered to be correct in Modern English. OK is also considered to be correct as an abbreviation of the old army check 'all correct'. I pity anyone studying under an English teacher stuck in the nineteenth century who corrects people using the word 'me' in standard English phrases because the case is nominative. Personally I find the American abuse of Past Simple more upsetting (Did you see that film?) but unless you want to start talking about the Kween of England you should accept that English is a language continually modified by foreign influences.

Ditto burnt/burned, naught/nought and grey/gray

I expect Azhrei will have an opinion on this  :lol:

[The Atog Lord]

I guess I’m showing my ignorance here, but I fail to see what is wrong with "Did you see that film?".

As for the improper use of the nominative, saying "She is taller than me" is no better than saying "Me go to school." Its being popular does not make it right.

Grammar is fun

*goes off hunting split infinitives*

[Kowal]

I believe it would be, "have you seen that film?"

[dandan]

Oxford and Cambridge English books both disagree with you about

'He is taller than me'

Personally 'English Grammar' by Murphy is my 'bible' and that also allows it. It is no more wrong than 'Me too', saying 'I too' would make you sound like an idiot however gramatically correct.

I await the word of our resident language god Azhrei.

[Kowal]

It sounds much better as, "I, too."

[Matt]

You'd have to be as gray as dandan to use 'grey'.

[Bram]

For anyone even mildly interested in the english language, I would suggest getting your ass over to a book store and buying 'Made In America' by Bill Bryson. It's a hilarious book about the evolution of the english language.

Especially Dandan and Matt should get a kick out of it.

[Dr. Sylvan]

You'd have to be as gray as dandan to use 'grey'.

Hmm. I've always spelled it grey by default. I guess that's what happens when no one ever teaches you grammar or special cases and you pick them up exclusively through observation. I'll just be satisfied that even with no serious training, I'm in the top echelons of English fluency, and ignore the last few things I don't know as trivia.

I have a few major litmus tests of writing conscientiousness: "their/they're/there", "to/too/two", and "it's/its". Pass those, and you convince me that most of your other errors are typographical.

[Bram]

Doctor: OMG how could you spell it 'grey'?! What about the 'Gray Death Legion'?? (and yes, I know it stems from Grayson Death Carlyle, but still :-)

[dandan]

I hadn't even noticed the grey/gray thing until I had to translate from Slovak and I couldn't figure out which to use (OMG I've forgotten English!!).  The only reliable way is to Google search and see which version gets more hits. That one is probably wrong.

Gypsy and Gipsy always bugged me. Funnily enough in Slovak the ability to choose 'i' or 'y' shows how educated you are as they are both pronounced the same (soft e vs. hard e).

I think we'll take advice from the Dutch about using the English language once they stop spelling Holland as the Netherlands.

I thought 'Made in America' was about Ted Danson and Whoopi Goldberg getting it on.

Funnily enough I/me have very very few gray/grey hairs/hairs. Most of you lot won't have any hair on top when you get to my age. Bloody kids today, no respect for their elders, I remember when.....

[Bram]

I think we'll take advice from the Dutch about using the English language once they stop spelling Holland as the Netherlands.

As has been discussed before, it's not us who make that mistake. Our country is simply called 'Nederland', which translates as 'Netherland' in English, which for some unfathomable reason became 'THE NetherlandS'. It's not like there's more of us, yo.

The word 'Holland' merely denotes a non-existing province of our country (since the official provinces are Noord-Holland and Zuid-Holland, there's really no such thing as 'Holland' at all anymore). People from all over the world started calling us 'Holland' at some point and I guess we're just too puny, insignificant and probably stoned to correct them, so we decided to give up and simply print 'Holland' on our team uniforms.

I propose we end all confusion (or possibly add to it) by deciding once and for all to refer to my country by the word I have written under my brand new avatar: DUTCHIELAND.

Yeah, and why our language ('Nederlands') is reffered to by the English as 'Dutch' and by Germans (whom we incidentally call 'Duits' which is obviously of the same etymological origin as the word 'Dutch') as 'Hollandisch' is a whole different story and probably related to why the Dutch word 'meer' (meaning lake) translates to the German 'see' whereas the German word 'Meer' (meaning sea) translates to the Dutch 'zee'.

Underground Sea = Unterirdischer See = Ondergronds Meer = Underground Lake.

Go figure.

[EDIT] Hence the term 'Zee Germans' from such Guy Ritchie-movies as Snatch is of the same origin as 'See Germans' meaning 'Lake Germans' which is obv. the only good place for the lot of them.

[EDIT] Just kidding, guys. <3 Germany

[rvs]

[EDIT] Hence the term 'Zee Germans' from such Guy Ritchie-movies as Snatch is of the same origin as 'See Germans' meaning 'Lake Germans' which is obv. the only good place for the lot of them.

[EDIT] Just kidding, guys. <3 Germany

OMFGWTFROFLBBQ. Bram made an obvious funny, and then correctly estimated the intelligence level of the germans to make sure they understand it was a joke. So good!

Anyway, if anybody wants to know, I, in fact, know the complete and historical background why you english punks are doing it all wrong. If interested, I'll try to make my longest post ever in order to explain. Just gimme the magic word.

[Bram]

Bram made an obvious funny, and then correctly estimated the intelligence level of the germans to make sure they understand it was a joke. So good!

Nah I was just scared that if I didn't apologize (or is it apologise? the mystery deepens...) in advance, they'd invade us all over again :-)

[dandan]

Given the state of your football team (translation for Yanks 'football' a game where you kick a ball with your foot without the aid of crash helmets, translation for Dutchies 'team' a group who attempt to help each other to overcome a common foe rather than just play pretty stuff and not pass to someone you dislike) it is a miracle than half the team don't have Holland and the other half Nevernetherland on their shirts.

Blaming foreigners for failing to correctly use your countries name is a weak excuse. Have you referred to the United Kingdom recently? You wouldn't believe how many people tell me that Glasgow is in England. And don't get me started on William of friggin Orange and how he made a mess of Northern Ireland which you probably think is in England too assuming it isn't Holland which doesn't even exist except on the shirts of your football team (presumably as a metaphor to show the team spirit).

Leave the Germans out of this. There are few English words of Saxon origin left in English as most Saxons who were able to write were killed by invading Frenchies who were actually Danes who presumably didn't like Denmark (thanks Danes for 'ough' endings). That and the influence of Latin (see The Life of Brian see details of grammar) made English a bastard language that is almost impossible to master but which is understandable even when spoken badly (insert Basic Forum jibe of your choice here), this latter point being particular relevant to the oxymoron of 'American English'.

Whilst you Dutchies are undoubtedly cunning linguists, IMHO only the Swedish seem to have mastered the English language.

I assume the Dutch joke was the <3 Germany bit. I always thought that the Dutch for lake/sea was Holland.

[Bram]

OMGROFLMAO!!  :lol:

That was the funniest thing I've ever read. I just gave the Royal Dutch Best Post Evar Award (tm) to Azhrei this morning for his astounding accomplishment but this one takes the cake. I wanna quote the funnies bits but they're SO all over the place that I'd end up quoting the whole thing.

Either Toaddy needs to find some way to put this whole thread in my sig, or every Dutch member needs to print this out, frame it and hang it over his bed next to the picture of Queen Maxima.

[Jacob Orlove]

Oxford and Cambridge English books both disagree with you about

'He is taller than me'

Personally 'English Grammar' by Murphy is my 'bible' and that also allows it. It is no more wrong than 'Me too', saying 'I too' would make you sound like an idiot however gramatically correct.

I await the word of our resident language god Azhrei.

Strunk and White's "The Elements of Style" disagrees with your english books. That means your books are wrong.