A few questions about Madness

[Stupid_Newb]

Here's some simple questions that have been bothering me lately, just need to clear some things up.

1) If I play a Basking Rootwalla via Madness, if a Trinisphere was is play, would I pay 0 or 3?
2) If my opponent has a Standstill out, can I cast a Basking Rootwalla via Madness without breaking Standstill?
3) Can a Madness spell be countered by a regular counterspell like Force of Will? If so, how would a Madness spell interact with Mana Drain?

[Komatteru]

502.24. Madness
502.24a Madness is a keyword that represents two abilities. The first is a static ability that functions
while the card with madness is in a player’s hand. The second is a triggered ability that
functions when the first ability is applied. “Madness [cost]” means “If a player would discard
this card, that player discards it, but may remove it from the game instead of putting it into his
or her graveyard” and “When this card is removed from the game this way, until that player
passes next, the player may play it any time he or she could play an instant as though it were in
his or her hand by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. When the player passes next,
he or she puts this card into his or her graveyard.”
502.24b Playing a spell using its madness ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in
rules 409.1b and 409.1f–h.

Madness is an alternate way to play the spell, like Morph or removing a blue card and paying a life for Force of Will.

1) 3.  Trinisphere makes all spells cost 3 to play.  Paying a spell via Madness is still playing it.

2) No.  Standstill will trigger.  You are still playing a spell.

3) Yes.  Same reason as above.  Mana Drain always gives you the converted mana cost, no matter how the spell is played.  If an Arrogant Wurm played via Madness is Mana Drained, you get 5 mana, not 3.  Just like Chalice of the Void set a 1 will counter a Rootwalla no matter how it is played.

My question is this: Do the costs for Flashback and Madness get reduced by Helm of Awakening or an appropriately colored Tempest medallion?

[Jebus]

My question is this: Do the costs for Flashback and Madness get reduced by Helm of Awakening or an appropriately colored Tempest medallion?

Yes.

[Matt]

3) Yes. Same reason as above. Mana Drain always gives you the converted mana cost, no matter how the spell is played. If an Arrogant Wurm played via Madness is Mana Drained, you get 5 mana, not 3. Just like Chalice of the Void set a 1 will counter a Rootwalla no matter how it is played.

An important point that can't be over-emphasized: the Converted Mana Cost always means only one thing, and that's the stuff in the top right-hand corner of the card. Every card that references CMC is asking you to look at the corner. It has nothing to do with how much you actually paid for the thing.

Furthermore, as of now only one thing in the game can change a card's CMC, and that is a copy-effect such as Clone or Volrath's Shapeshifter. Unless a card has become a copy of something else, it's CMC is unalterable.

[Lofobal]

Since Madness has come up, I thought I'd ask a question about the interaction between Duress (or any discard, for that matter) and Circular Logic.

I cast Duress, and see Circular Logic. When Duress resolves, I have will priority while the Circular Logic is in the Madness RFG Zone, so my opponent can counter the next spell I play (assuming sufficient cards in graveyard.) If I pass priority to my opponent, and said opponent passes it back, will the phase end due to nothing being on the stack, or will the Circular Logic leaving the Madness Zone prevent it and give me a chance to play another spell without the chance on the Circular Logic countering it?

[Komatteru]

Madness allows a player to play a spell anytime he or she could play an instant until he or she passes next.  Once your opponent passes priority (no matter what it's for), he cannot play that Circular Logic and it goes to the graveyard.  While the Logic is RFG, there isn't anything on the stack.  When he passes next, the game checks for stuff that has been removed via Madness (not sure if this is a triggered ability, or a state-based effect, or game rule), puts that card into the graveyard, and the stack is empty with both players having passed.  I think.

Basically, unless you're dumb and then play a spell in the same phase after Duressing away a Circular Logic, it can't be used to counter anything.  I'm not sure about the actual reasons it happens, but that is what happens.

[Zelc]

JDizzle is right.  If you Duress a Circular Logic, you have to pass the phase in order to play anything without having it countered by the Logic.  When both players pass priority with an empty stack, the game moves to the next step or phase.  If you pass priority and your opponent passes priority, Circular Logic will go to the graveyard and the game moves to the next phase.  So if you're playing against Madness, play that Duress during your first main phase.