[Rebuilding]MaskNought

[akabane]

Hi all, i want to talk about a deck which isn't used a lot those days...but it has a lot of potential to show.
I'm talking about MaskNought, the deck with the Illusionary Mask+Phyerxian Dreadnought combo.

It isn't used today -i think- because of the very large amount of Artifact Hate that's present in EVERY sideboard of ANY deck...even if your dread/mask is protected by duress/fow, your opponent will play R&R/Naturalize/Artif Mutation/Disenchant/etc. and someone of these MUST resolve. If not, you are a God, considering that even your oppo plays protection.

So, i'm here to show you a deck which DOESN'T LOSE TO A RACK&RUIN. Yes, you understood.

I won't purpose you Leonin Abunas
I won't purpose you Lightning Greaves
I won't purpose you a deck without Mask-Nought

But i'm here to purpose you one card that is in synthony with all the rest of the deck.
I'm talking about

Argivian Find
W
Instant
Return target artifact or enchantement card from your graveyard to your hand.

This...this is simply AMAZING!

A Mask countered, a Nought ruined...you can spend this only W in EoT and restart!

My version of the MaskNought combo abuses of this card.

My build is B/W/G.

My build is unpowered.

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

"What did you say?"
Yep, my build is unpowered.
I think that this deck can also -if not BETTER- work without power.

This because it can mount a major number of protection/destruption/etc...and that's very useful.

Here I post the deck:

Aka's Mask

Combo Kill:

4 Illusionary Mask
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

Utility/Discard:

4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Seal of Cleansing
2 Withered Wretch
1 Living Wish

Search/Draw/Tutors:

3 Tainted Pact
2 Spoils of the Vault
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Demonic Consultation

Recursion:

4 Argivian Find

Finisher:

3 Berserk

Acceleration:

4 Dark Ritual
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

ManaBase:

1 Plains
4 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Snow-covered Swamp
1 Forest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
2 Wooded Foothills

Here it is.
I play 3 Seal of Cleansing because they are are recyclable by argivian.
My personal "tech"     is the Living Wish...at a first glace it isn't useful and it's casual, but what if they StP you Nought or if you Spoil/Taint out useful cards?

I found it very useful.

I play Berserk because i don't even think i have 2 turns to kill a Tog or Keeper: they'll always find solutions for ours threats and then we can't do anything.
But, we attack. Keeper plays Mystical for StP/Disenchant/anythingelse. He  is at 24 'cause of Exalted's Attack. Next turn we'll die. The attack pass and we play Berserk. GG

So this is my deck
With my modifies

Let's discuss it

Let's try to make sideboard

Sorry for my bad english but i'm italian and i'm still learning it  

Aka

[WildWillieWonderboy]

Using Ill mask as a way to slide under 3sphere and keep them from countering your stuff is pretty cool, but I don't see it racing oath. The biggest problem with this deck is the lack of any card drawing. The tutors can only give you one card, so it's unrealistic to expect that you'll get dreadnought, mask, argivian find and berserk.

[Smmenen]

The biggest problem with the deck is actually its clip.  The deck is too slow for competitive T1 anymore.  Winning in three turns with a very destructible creature is simply too slow for any combo deck and many control decks.  You can swing in with Dreadnaught, and tog or slaver will kill you after your first swing.

[akabane]

i wanna add 3/4 Unmask for protect better the combo give major aggressivity to the deck...because sometimes we need other discard elements...but what can i modify for put in the unmask? I'm sure they will help a lot...i have added the berserks just for have a one-turn-kill. For removal, i added argivian. This may be a little slow compared for control decks, but it can control with discard/artif-ench hate, and response with argivian to control's plays against mask/nought...but it's still in construction, so every suggestion you have feel free to post it here, i'll have it in consideration for further modifies.

Tnx
Aka

[WildWillieWonderboy]

You are heading in a very responsive direction. This deck should be all about smashing as soon as possible, and maindecking seals, duresses, argivian finds, cabal therapies and now unmasks just gives you more cards that don't kill your opponent.

[Rancor1]

What Smmenen is saying is, Phyrexian Dreadnaut is just not a relevant threat anymore. RnR will kill both the mask and the 12/12, requiring two argivian finds, and even a single "shatter" will be enough of a tempo loss to basically end your game. In fact, I beleive that he wrote an article about it, although I cannot get a link working.

[TheWhiteDragon]

With 4 argivans and 3 berserk, you are essenially running 7 cards that do absolutely nothing unless a nought is in play or has been in play and killed.  getting the 12/12 in play and protecting it is the key, not allowing it to get killed, recurred, and replayed.  I think this is just to slow for T1 today.  Also, the cards like seeds of innocence, energy flux, etc., are gonna make you cry let alone a R&R which will require 2 argivans to bounce back from.  If your opponent is brainless enough to avoid your in-play mask and R&R your dreadnought and mana crypt, then not only is your argivan going to be unnecessarily good, but you are also playing against someone who would just as easily roll to a Mon's Goblin raider.

[Smmenen]

What Smmenen is saying is, Phyrexian Dreadnaut is just not a relevant threat anymore. RnR will kill both the mask and the 12/12, requiring two argivian finds, and even a single "shatter" will be enough of a tempo loss to basically end your game. In fact, I beleive that he wrote an article about it, although I cannot get a link working.

Exactly.  Mask itself is a great card.  It's the Dreadnaught that sucks - it's slow and vulnerable.

[akabane]

So, because we don't search for a bunch of cards that are useful with mask? I mean, the Mask can be used for morph, for avoiding "come-into-play" abilities, ecc...and i think it would be a waste not to use it. I'll search in cards database to find those creatures, but the problem is: the mayor threats are artifacts. So equal to dreadnought. How can we do?      

Aka

[Mikey]

Well, I played a mask deck two weeks ago. It worked perfecty fine, but it was a workshop version. My only problem was a keeper deck that plowed all of my juggernauts and dreadnoughts(recurring them using cunning wish). I used Chains of Mephistloteles in my build to gain an upper hand against combo and control. Another weakness is that if a goblin welder weld in your dreadnought you'll be in a pretty bad shape.
Living Wish would be an interesting card to my deck though

[Fominian]

So, because we don't search for a bunch of cards that are useful with mask? I mean, the Mask can be used for morph, for avoiding "come-into-play" abilities, ecc...and i think it would be a waste not to use it. I'll search in cards database to find those creatures, but the problem is: the mayor threats are artifacts. So equal to dreadnought. How can we do?      

Aka

An interesting concept I one saw was Eater of Days, the deck that played it utilized both a mask concept, and the turn skip concept for alternate methods...

Though I am sure there are better creatures to use with mask.

As for dreadnought - I always had higher expectations of it with Volrath's Shapeshifter then with mask.

[BrokenNut]

What is the most common way a dreadnought would die? I was just thinking, if it's something like shatter or rack and ruin, would adding Welding Jar be worth it? Can save the Nought from such effects until he can end the game. Also, another option would be to try lightning greaves. It gives the speed and untargetability which Smennen was saying is it's biggest weakness.
Unfortunately it adds another card that you need to make the deck viable so it becomes a 3 card combo that needs a lot of accel to work right. Which is basically leaves very little room for the disruption.  

Perhaps, Try a slower build and make it more control orients. B/U, duress, Force of Will, Unmask, MisD are all possibilities to protect and disrupt, then the MaskNought for the kill along with greaves for protection. And with blue comes lots of good card drawing. Any thoughts on this?

[Rancor1]

The deck is already playing enough cards that do nothing on their own (Beserk, Find,) making welding jar even more dependent.

As long as you want to add Duress, Unmask and FoW, why don't you just play Doomsday?

[bebe]

Time for me to chime in. I've played Mask at large venues recently. I've made top eight with it against good fields with good players. Steve is right. You need to protect your Mask and get it as soon as possible. The way to go about it is to use a predominantly blue build with counters as Oath does. I have had little problem with artifact removal although a build sporting four StPs raped me once. I have enough counter magic and search built in to be quite consistent. I would not discount Mask decks so quickly. Your build though is far from what I would consider optimum. First Intuition is a great card. Brainstorm/fetch is solid. Tinker/Colossus is almost an auto include. You lack serious acceleration. Without P9 and Mana Crypt you have pretty much made the deck two turns slower. Time Walk > Berserk. Now I do splash green ( not black) because I transform into an Oath sideboard - my meta has Fish and FCG. It also allows me to bring in my own artifact/enchantment hate. Those who fear Oath should know that some Eon Hubs out the side will solve the problem. You can side for Oath.

[Mikey]

Oath is not the deck u'll have most problem with. I can say the control build might be powerful, but i believe a workshop deck is the right place for mask. You can trick your opponent by sneaking in a Goblin Welder between your Dreadnoughts, while Juggernauts also beats hard. Trinisphere is a must is that deck of course...

[doomhed]

Small problem- read mishras workshop. ok...hold that thought.
read the errata on illusionary mask. yep. this combo does not work. nice suggestion though.

As one of masknoughts biggest fans, it is not coming back anytime soon. the deck has too many flaws

#1) Extremely vulnerable to hate
everything you use to win is killed by common maindeck and sideboard hate. with null rod useage at an all time high, masknought has litle to no chance
#2) Too Slow/outdated
too slow for a combo deck, but not enough threat diversity to be considered an Aggro deck, and not enough distruption to be called control. it used to be the pinnacle of a true Control/Combo/Aggro deck, but in this current meta it does none of those jobs too well.
#3)Too narrow
this deck used to have a fair matchup against most decks, but now its possible list of kill conditions and options are way too limited to survive in this meta, in addition to welders being crazy with the "swap yer mox for yer dreadnought in the yard, kill yer other nought".

if they kill Goblin Welder, I would play this deck in about 10 seconds, but now, never.

[Kasuras]

Small problem- read mishras workshop. ok...hold that thought.
read the errata on illusionary mask. yep. this combo does not work. nice suggestion though.

It is true that you cannot "cast" creatures with Workshop and Mask, but you can still cast the Mask with it. Turn 1 Workshop, 3Sphere. Turn 2 land, Mask, Nought seems like a solid play to me.

They still have synergy, just not that much so I wouldn't say this deck has no chance because of that minimal lack of synergy.

everything you use to win is killed by common maindeck and sideboard hate. with null rod useage at an all time high, masknought has litle to no chance

Null Rod is not used that much anymore, and you probably should adapt to Null Rod by: other (bigger than fish's) creatures, bounce spells or counters, etc. Playing versus Null Rod.dec is not good game. Other than that, a useless/removed Mask should not be good game.

too slow for a combo deck, but not enough threat diversity to be considered an Aggro deck, and not enough distruption to be called control. it used to be the pinnacle of a true Control/Combo/Aggro deck, but in this current meta it does none of those jobs too well.

I think either aggro-control or prison-aggro is the right way to go with this deck.


Please say so if my answers are way off, but I don't think these arguments are solid enough to prove that * > Mask.

[Mikey]

I would say the the original mask decks faces a big problem in our metagame. A simple tainted mask or vengeur mask cannot compete with the workshop decks that are around our metagame, doesn't stand a chance vs oath and dies easily to combo.
That is the main reason why I went for workshop mask. I have all the strenghts of a 5/3 deck with an extra kill condition. Only downside is that I have less removal. I can even play my own Goblin Welders without fear for their counters or under a trinisphere. Add Chains of Mephistoteles and most combo and control decks isn't a problem anymore.

Turn 1 3Sphere or Chains can be devastating to combo and control. Try to brainstorm with Chains out . My own welders and juggernauts are just as powerful as those of other workshop decks plus I have dreadnoughts to smash their faces with.

In the tournement I lost  to a 5c Stacker deck, with him having 2 active welders and me a dreadnought in my grave the first round and him getting 3Sphere/Cruiciable lock on me turn 1 the last round. And drew to a 3c keeper, who removed all my creatures from the game.

[That0neguy]

To people looking for a different creture: I doubt you will find anything since if you think  about it the only creture that will really work is dreadnought since nothing is as cheap as dreadnought that will kill in under 2 turns.  The closest thing to dreadnought is leveler at 5 mana and that just slows down the deck.  Maby wizards will make a faster killing dreadnought type creture but until then probably not going to happen.  So until then i think mask is dead and just a fun deck.

[DarkExodus]

i'm a new member here @ tmd.com.
sorry for my english, it's not that good, i'm from germany.
i've found a deck, that uses the mask in a deck like suicide, with several handdestr., also chains are playable, i think.
it was something like this:

3x Phyrexian Negator
3x Nantuko Shade
4x Dark Ritual
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Demonic tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
2x Stifle
4x Brainstorm
1x Time Walk
1x Ancestral Recall
4x Illusionary Mask
4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea
7x Swamp

i think for the sb is back to basics also a good  card.
would you think that this deck (perhaps with some meta changes or updates) is viable in today's vintage?

[VarienTanafres]

So, because we don't search for a bunch of cards that are useful with mask? I mean, the Mask can be used for morph, for avoiding "come-into-play" abilities, ecc...and i think it would be a waste not to use it. I'll search in cards database to find those creatures, but the problem is: the mayor threats are artifacts. So equal to dreadnought. How can we do?      

Aka

what about Phage or the famous Darksteel Colossus. IN fact, any big big bad creature could do.

[Freelancer]

Not really because you still have to pay for the full cost off the creature (11 for colossus=no good)...wich sucks...naught however costs only 1 to get into play while being a 12/12 creature...wich is MUCH better...

They will probably never print another creature that is so suitable for this archetype...IMHO it's dead, for the various reasons stated before (ie. slow/vurnable)...Mask however can still be used to sneak various important creatures like welder into play...

[Bakes]

I never actually understood the combo between phrexian dreadnought and illusionary mask could someone please inform me!!!!Thanks


Illusionary Mask
2
Artifact
X: Put a creature card with converted mana cost X or less from your hand into play face down as a 0/1 creature. Put X mask counters on that creature. Play this ability only any time you could play a sorcery. The creature's controller may turn the creature face up any time he or she could play an instant by removing all mask counters from it. This effect ends if the creature is turned face up. A,B,U-R [Legal in Vin.] (Oracle Version Date: January 22, 2005. See http://gatherer.wizards.com/)

Phyrexian Dreadnought
1
Artifact Creature
12/12
Trample
If Phyrexian Dreadnought would come into play, sacrifice any number of creatures with total power 12 or greater instead. If you do, put Phyrexian Dreadnought into play. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard. MI-R [Legal in Vin, Leg.] (Oracle Version Date: January 22, 2005. See http://gatherer.wizards.com/)

Mask lets you pay 1 to put the dreadnought into play facedown, avoiding the 'nought's drawback. You can then flip the 12/12 without any sacrifices.

However, you could have asked this in the rules forum, or used the search function to see if it's explained elsewhere. Warning for spam.

-Jacob Orlove[/color]

[TheWhiteDragon]

Mask nought is not too slow and does work.  If used with workshop and trinisphere, it can be fast and disruptive.  With a strip effect, you can actually kill your opponent before he hits 3 land.  And Hanna's Custody is the anti-hate tech....not argivan find.  Built properly, the deck can lock out your opponent and just go "oops, I win."

[cssamerican]

Ninja Mask is a good (Maybe not Tier 1) deck and is as resilient as a cockroach. This crap about them dying to all kinds of hate is utter BS. Their biggest weakness is speed, and requiring a lot of play skill to play the deck optimally.

[the boogie man]

Another (fairly cheap) creature for you to think about including is lord of tressorhorn, if you want to go the regular mask approach. He pitches to unmask and he regenerates, and he secretly does not die to artifact disruption.

     Although I am not quite convinced that this is as good approach as the riddler, but hey.

[akabane]

i'm quite interested in workshop version of Mask.
This is a very interesting idea. The real problem in this version is, we don't have searching cards in a wsMask.dec so we can't say definitely "i win" 'cause we can have a nought in hand but no mask...and vice versa. And remember that i'm looking for an unpowered build, so we can't have all the permanents granted by the moxes etc...so we'll just have a soft-lock w/ smokestack-tanglewire because we can't think that we'll ever be in permanent vantage.
Sure, the crucible lock is really good, but we'll have "only" 4 3ni 4 sphere of resistances 4 crucible 5 strips to have a SURE lock on opponent. What i suggest is, a version with Workshops, but blue/red version, with welders (), and some drawers...what do you think bout it?

[Revvik]

Ninja Mask is a fun alternative, albeit very skill-intensive and slightly slower than what is necessary for today's faster general metagame.

One of the better versions I've seen recently was the Blue Mask variant, done (I think) by the Canadians.  I gave it a whirl, and it was loads of fun, and pretty powerful.  The basics of it were along the lines of:

Kill:
4 Mask
4 Dreadnought
1 Tinker
1 Colossus

Tutors:
3 Intuition
1 Mystical
1 Merchant Scroll (I think)

Intuition is excellent in a deck like this, letting you find the missing piece without killing yourself, or fetching out Accumulated Knowledge to overwhelm your opponent with.

Counterbase:
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
Misdirection (could be cut for Disrupting Shoal)

The version I ran for a while used a small splash of green for three Naturalize, effectively stopping Null Rod, but the same effect can be had with even one maindeck Echoing Truth, what with all the tutors to search it out.  Besides, going straight blue can afford some pretty nifty tools for the right metagame and strengthen the deck towards non-basic hate.

With the free counterspells, excellent search / draw engine, this deck can be pretty fast.  Unfortunately, I can't remember exactly who was it I stole the list from ( ) otherwise I'd thank them for it.

[bebe]

The deck was designed for the Ontario Vintage Championships and used a few times after. The original deck was an off-shoot of Gro-Mask which at one time had a primer and featured three Quirion Dryads. I altered my deck a bit tto accomodate an Oath sideboard as tech against Fish, FCG and Beatz. In three tournaments the deck lost only to Salvagers  ( I declined to side in my Ground seals as I was about to concede the match anyway) and Shockwave playing amny deck he chooses.

We altered the deck to include white for Seals and Balance - yes it stole tech in the form of Custidies for the side but we played Workshop/Mask before SCG at the Vintage prior to this one. Mask has performed well up herein the hands of players familiar with the deck. The newest list is ...

Mask
Paul Shriar

4x Tundra
4x Island
4x Fetchland  
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Emerald
1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Chrome Mox

1x Darksteel Collossus
4x Illusionary Mask
4x Phyrexian Dreadnought

4x Force of will
4x Mana Leak
3x Daze
2x Seal of Cleansing
1x Balance

4x Brainstorm
4x Accumulated Knowledge
2x Intuition
1x Tinker
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time walk

sb:
4x Tormod's Crypt
1x Platinum Angel
3x Hannah's Custody  
3x StP  
2x Stifle  
1x Duplicant

You woill notice that a full set of moxen were NEVER used in the deck. It can get a Mask out turn one with little difficulty but its strength is its ability to protect and counter key spells and search out solutions. Never mind those who say the deck is too slow.  I assure that fat reaches the table by turn three in the majority of games you play. This deck is overlooked and certainly has the potential to win at large venues.

[Revvik]

Bebe - Thanks.
I think my personal choice for my area would continue to be U/G due to Ground Seal, but I can see the strengths of U/W, especially in an unknown metagame.

It is my personal opinion that going along the lines of what you see here is probably the best shot you have at killing with Phyrexian Dreadnoughts.