[Deck Discussion] 2-Color or 3-color Goth Slaver?

[MrZuccinniHead]

I'm interested to see what The Atog Lord has to say about this.

Rich has stated many times that he finds the Intuition-less, AK-less builds to be the superior choice.  The arguments for dropping black hinge on Intuition.

Yeah, i actually played him on MWS and we talked for a while about decks and he mentioned he liked the no-intuition build better, but i wanted him to say it lol.  But, i guess information is information reguardless of who says it.

[The Atog Lord]

i wanted him to say it

OK, I'll say it. I don't want to make this into an AK-or-no discussion, but I personally find Control Slaver without Intuition or AK to be the best build. I think it is faster and more agile. I think the benefit of adding the Intuition/AK engine is most helpful in matches that are already good, and that the engine does little to help against matches that are already difficult. I realize that Intuition itself can be good without AK, but this requires a Welder on the board, thus making Intuition too situational for my taste as a stand-alone card.

And of course, in a deck without the Intuition engine, Yawgmoth's Will is absolutely sacred and un-cuttable.

[MrZuccinniHead]

i wanted him to say it

OK, I'll say it. I don't want to make this into an AK-or-no discussion, but I personally find Control Slaver without Intuition or AK to be the best build. I think it is faster and more agile. I think the benefit of adding the Intuition/AK engine is most helpful in matches that are already good, and that the engine does little to help against matches that are already difficult. I realize that Intuition itself can be good without AK, but this requires a Welder on the board, thus making Intuition too situational for my taste as a stand-alone card.

And of course, in a deck without the Intuition engine, Yawgmoth's Will is absolutely sacred and un-cuttable.

What about decks that just use black for cards like Duress, Yawg Will, Tutor, or others without the Intiition/AK draw engine?

[Zherbus]

What about decks that just use black for cards like Duress, Yawg Will, Tutor, or others without the Intiition/AK draw engine?

I think you killed the conversation with this unclear question. Care to clarify?

[MrZuccinniHead]

Well what i meant there is the other debate about whether to run U/r or U/r/b because both versions are out there.

Oh and sry about killing the convo.  If u have any sui black threads u want me to kill to make up for it, I would gladly do it for you.

[orgcandman]

...I think the benefit of adding the Intuition/AK engine is most helpful in matches that are already good, and that the engine does little to help against matches that are already difficult. I realize that Intuition itself can be good without AK, but this requires a Welder on the board...And of course, in a deck without the Intuition engine, Yawgmoth's Will is absolutely sacred and un-cuttable.

I have to agree that Intui-Ak is only good in the control matchup, where you already have the edge.

That having been said, in control slaver, I don't generally play the Intuition as a card that requires a welder on the board. Usually, Intuition is there so that I can dump an asston of goodies in the yard, and then will for a win. I find that this IS a strategy that, at least in my experiences, improves the mirror as it allows you to take one large turn of tempo.

I realize that Intuition slows down the deck somewhat, but the benefit of being able to switch gears to just overwhelming your opponent with card and tempo advantage far outweigh the slight pricetag attached.

As for the whole Will debate, I honestly can't see how it can be cut in a deck running 1-drops and broken cards. Will only gets better with a better deck, and seeing as how good CS actually is, I can't really make a good excuse as to why the card shouldn't be played.