[deck] "budget" Slaver control

[Aykay]

Well, after 2 months of trying my best to formulate a non-metagame-based GUW control, and I realized that it was failing miserably.

So, I read over some of the better decks, ie food chain, keeper, stax; and really took a liking to Slaver control.  This is a variant

of the Meandeck slaver build which can be found here : http://www.playordraw.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=124993

The budgetizements? I started playing long after all the moxen and dual-lands were in the "affordable" market.  This is what I've

came up with so far, it's pretty solid, but it needs a better sideboard; and a little maindeck tweaking may be in order.  

Name pending.dec

//mana base//28
3x Adarkar Wastes
4x Shivan Reef
4x City of Brass
3x Gilded Lotus
3x Lotus Vale
4x Vedalken Engineer (yeah, I don't own workshops.)
5x Island
2x Plains

//lock components//11
4x Goblin Welder
3x Mindslaver
4x Chalice of the Void

//Draw/Tutor//10
4x Brainstorm
4x Thirst for Knowledge
3x Fabricate

//other spells//9
4x Counterspell
4x Ornithopter

//Win Condition//3
1x Memnarch
2x Pentavus

//sideboard//
4x Disenchant
4x Sacred Ground
4x Chill
3x Swords to Plowshares


Alright, this needs some fine-tuning, hopefully you guys have some help *shrug*

I'll start off with a few cards I've been pondering :  Cloudpost, Arcane Labratory, mystical/enlightened tutor, cunning wish,  

Lim-Dul's Vault  ----- I'll explain some of these in the mana base

Card choices that are DIFFERENT from Meandeck's :
Counterspell - I don't own any copies of "Force of Will".

Ornithopter - I've just been loving him in this deck.  As previously stated, I have no moxen, but this is still an artifact for 0

that I can abuse Welder with.  Also, it can serve as fodder to thirsts if neccessary.  Oh, and it has flying and can chump block

too!

Fabricate - Yay for artifact tutoring.  It often helps, and I may find a way to get 1 or two more into the maindeck.  I'm honestly

surprised that (from what I've seen) nobody plays this card in any format.   However, I am considering cutting them for

copies of Brain geyser. (opinions?)

Mana base adjustments
Vedalken Engineer - "replacement" for Mishra's Workshop.  Also, colored mana for Memnarch if needed.

I'll note also -  The mana base I've configured (pondering forbidden orchard) actually does a good job of supplying any color of

mana that I need.  Total, not counting the multiple mana some of the sources produce, I have :
14 sources for red mana
15 sources for white mana
22 sources for blue mana
28 sources for artifacts

I'm *thinking* about cloudposts, but I haven't gotten to playtest them yet.  

sideboard : Arcane Labratory combined with Chill can really help slow those pesky gobbos down. Disenchant is also

crucial in this matchup to help take out the combo.  Arcane labratory, Cunning wish, and Brain geyser are the most consistent of

the cards that didn't make this cut; but I'd appreciate any insight here.

Cards that didn't quite make the cut :
Lim-Dul's Vault, Parallel Thoughts, Final Judgement, Leonin Abunas, Stasis Cocoon, Arrest, Oxidize, Brain geyser, Tinker, Darksteel Colossus.

EDIT : Oh, I forgot entirely about nevinyetcs disk.

Any insight/advice on the deck in general would be greatly appreciated
-Ay

[Freelancer]

First off slaver can NOT be budgetized...You need mana drains to power out your expensive artifacts, you need moxen for fast welding AND extra mana, you need force off will or you will autoloose to a bunch off decks...and on top off that you have a bunch off suboptimal (engineers/fabricate/lotus vale/thopter) card choices...

But since you insist I would suggest adding intuitions instead off fabricates, remove the engineers for; mana crypt/mana vault and 2x artifact lands...remove the ornithopters for force off wills, completely remodel the mana base (wasteland anyone) to a dual based mana base combined with fetches and basic lands wich is so much more stable...Cut down on colours maybe URb no more colours (not needed), one off the strenghts off control slaver is it's basic lands...I am aware that this will make the deck like 10x more expensive but really that is the ONLY way to make control slaver and still be a bit competetive...


Ps. crucible off worlds with artifact lands is quite nice for welding and combined with strip mine/intuition can make some interesting tricks...

[Aykay]

alright, I know that this deck really should be powered properly, but here's an update/revision after some testing

/manabase/
4x Shivan Reef
4x City of Brass
1x Lotus Petal
4x Cloudpost
3x Gilded Lotus
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Vedalken Engineer
5x Island

4x Goblin Welder
3x Mindslaver
1x Memnarch
2x Pentavus
4x Brainstorm
4x Counterspell
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Thirst For Knowledge
1x Tinker
1x Memory Jar
1x Mystical Tutor

sideboard

edit : thanks for the suggestions, going to go for FOW's and Sol Ring at the least now.  I should have noted that City of Brass has been solid for me as a volcanic island "replacement" thus far.   As far as a sideboard, I really need to work on it.  So far I'm looking at Arcane Labratory, Tormod's Crypt, and some other stuff.

[Kowal]

This list looks absolutely godawful.  I second that you can't budgetize the deck, but at least jump for some Force of Wills and Volcanic Islands.

Also, what is the deal with the cunning wishes in the sideboard?

I don't get it.

[Zherbus]

You can't honestly play Type 1 without Force of Wills and a few duals... at minimum. Budget in type 1 is still a little pricey.

[Aeneas]

Ancient Tomb is an incredibly cheap card, especially after its banning in extended, and can do a pretty bang up job filling MWS' shoes.

[nickalisk]

I tried bugeting slaver once.....u need volcanics and fetchlands + force of wills at minimum, use mana accelerators that are artifats, and run basics for blood moon distruption, ur chance to win rests on guerilla tactics*

[Mark_Story]

I'll second or is it fifth? that you need FOW, you have no other way of stopping combo, or 3sphere, or just generally retarded things like tinker.  Ancient tomb would be a good addition to the deck, allowing you to power out your artifacts a little faster, and better than cloudpost.   I would take memnarch out unless you are having good luck with him.  Instead I would look at running triskelion, Sundering titan (Which would work well as you have few duals) Duplicant, platinum angel.  I think those creatures will help you more than memnarch will.

Furthermore, look at intuition slaver lists.  They are a little slower but will be better than what you have now.  It gives you a powerful draw engine in AK's.  And also helps you in creating a slaver lock.  Furthermore, intuition allows you to set up a stripmnie/crucible lock much easier.

I think that if you aren't able to get power, which many of us can't, then budget is the best you can do.  If the deck is working for you in your metagame then keep playing and tuning it.  Try and find/get your hands on stuff like sol ring and mana crypt.  The ring is cheapish and should be easy to get a hold of.  Also look for 5 proxy tourneys in your area so you can proxy power.  

Main thing, if you're having fun and winning some games with the deck, then that's what matters.  If not, play FCG it's an awsome deck, at least for me.  I've had a lot of fun and sucess with it.

[savekeeper]

A friend of mine recently finished first at a local tournament (30 ppl) with budget slavery. If your metagame is something like ours (almost no people with power/high priced cards and with bad/suboptimal decks (aka a more casual metagame) ) you might wanna try it out:

1x Darksteel Citadel
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
2x Seat of the Synod
2x Shivan Reef
1x Strip Mine
1x Tolarian Academy
4x Volcanic Island
4x Wasteland
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring

4x Goblin Welder
3x Crucible of Worlds
1x Triskelion
1x Platinum Angel
1x Duplicant
1x Mind Slaver

4x Force of Will
4x Mana Leak
4x Brainstorm
4x Thirst for Knowledge
3x Intuition
2x Deep Analysis
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Tinker

Sideboard:
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Lava Dart
1x Sundering Titan
4x Ophidian
2x Echoing Truth

It is nothing like the powered version but atleast this version plays with Force of Will and Volcanic Island.  

[Aykay]

alright, here's yet another update : I did some playtesting the last few days, and I've had some breakthoughs and some setbacks.  On the positive side, I've discovered the Slaver/mages' contest combo is a fun win condition.  (hehe, I just happened to see a copy in some $.50 binder and it hit me).  


Manabase - 26
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Brass
4x Shivan Reef
1x Lotus Petal
3x Gilded Lotus
6x Island
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring

Kill/Win - 13
4x Goblin Welder
4x Mages' Contest
2x Mindslaver
1x Pentavus
1x Triskelion (further testing has revealed that trisks are just plain better.)

other spells - 20
4x Brainstorm
4x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Cunning Wish
4x Counterspell (Force of Wills are coming soon enough)
1x Balance
1x Memory Jar
1x Duplicant
1x Tinker

Sideboard
2x Disenchant
2x Swords to Plowshares
3x Lightning Bolt
3x Arcane Labratory
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Triskelion

Yeh, my sideboard's probably crap.

Note - I tested with a build that was a little more crucible-centric (using cards like gemstone mine, strip mine, etc), but I usually just found myself      
looking at a Blood Moon.  I guess Blood Moons are tech here.  Also, luckily, my metagame contains few to no players who have power.

also, I'm tring to squeeze in some Rack and Ruins, and maybe even Jester's Caps.  I'm *not* running Eon Hub because I find that without moxes I really can't get it out fast enough to matter.

I'll attempt to give at least my maindeck some justification.
Mage's Contest - as I said, a great win condition.  It has some certain requirements, given, but it is generally game when played.

Balance - brokenness.  If played at the right time, it's a devastating card against just about every deck.

Memory Jar - great draw engine, often one of my highest priority tinker targets for it's ability to fill up the graveyard with welder targets.


edit : Oh, and in regards to the Ak/intuition draw engine - I found it working against me more than for me most of the time.  

I have a feeling this is still suboptimal, even for my limitations, but I'm feeling good with it for now.  I'd still appreciate any comments/critiques you guys have

-ay

[E Face]

Kill/Win - 13
4x Goblin Welder
4x Mages' Contest
2x Mindslaver
1x Pentavus
1x Triskelion (further testing has revealed that trisks are just plain better.)

Mage's Contest - as I said, a great win condition. It has some certain requirements, given, but it is generally game when played

Maybe its just me... probably not though. But you listed Mages' Contest as a kill card? I didnt even know what card that was, I had to go look it up, and then I had to read it over and over again because i felt that i was missing something. I would suggest running at least mana leak in that slot, or condescend, or force spike, or hinder, maybe even some freakin goblin war buggies for sanity's sake. The point being is that although the card can be fun, it is not something that can be considered a kill card as almost any decent magic player would be smart enough to not kill themselves over a spell.

A few other things i see wrong with the card is the fact that it requires double red and has cheesy art. Those things do not belong. And Control Slaver is a control deck by the way, so unless you have a firm hold of the match chances are (in your budget metagame which more than likely features many aggro decks) that you will be behind in life totals and won't even be able to bid aggresively enough to counter a spell.

[DeadHead]

Maybe its just me... probably not though. But you listed Mages' Contest as a kill card?

I doesnt mean it like you think he does. The trick is:

- Mindslaver an opponent
- In his turn, play a spell.
- Mages' Contest it.
- Pay 20 life being your opponent


But this doesnt mean it's a good kill. The 2 red is hard to get.
Also, take a better look at the list Savekeeper posted. It's a pretty good list. The Intuition is really good.

I'm also not that crazy about Memory Jar since you're the control player.

[gothcracker]

a couple of choice cards u could put in there to help with the mana base crucible of worlds, strip mine, darksteel citadel (or seat of synod), mox diamond or chrome mox, and tolarian academy.

     -crucible of worlds-->helps to recur back strip mine to help lock them or to recur back the darksteel to lock them with the mindslaver/welder

     -tolarian academy -->helps to speed up the deck when played and have a couple of art. out.

also another choice of control/win u could drop in, is a platinum angel for a tinker target.

[Aykay]

I have honestly found platinum angels inferior to triskelions in this deck.  Perhaps it's just my meta.

[E Face]

Haha... i guess by posting at 3:40 in the morning and seeing the card Mages Contest i just didnt think it through properly. Although I still think its not the greatest thing in the world, i must say that it is pretty cool if you have 7 mana up the turn before. It would be more effective if he did have access to drains, but even without them its a FUN way to win...

Still not as fun as Slaving somebody and playing their own Spoils of the Vault for silly cards like Dwarven Thaumaturgist though  

[gothcracker]

im not saying P. Angel is like a kill condition. but it sure can help out sometimes. and if u get a welder out. it makes it harder to kill u. also its good against combo more than anything. like belcher has to go off twice before they can kill u. dragon has some probs with it. i mean i agree that against control its not to strong. but the good ol' angel hasnt let me down yet.

[unknown.root]

Still not as fun as Slaving somebody and playing their own Spoils of the Vault for silly cards like Dwarven Thaumaturgist though  

i do alot of play testing against Control Slaver/Goth CS vs. my spoils based belcher decks and more than once a game has been lost to me "having" to search for a mountain goat.


one day i'll maindeck some just to piss him off

[Aykay]

speaking of which, does anybody know where I can find a list for goth slaver?  I googled, searched tmd and searched scg, nada.
Decklist requests are against the rules. If you can't find a list by searching for "goth slaver" try searching for something like "Mindslaver Intuition Accumulated Knowledge". That's much more likely to give you the decklist you want, although you will get some irrelevant results.
-Jacob

[gothcracker]

all gothslaver pretty much is; is 2-3 underground seas, 2-3 duress, a yawgmoths will and a demonic tutor. this is the deck that im playing i love having the added black mainly for a the Will. when that card resolves its usually over. i added an entomb which really has seem to work out good for me. since usually u need the big artifacts in the graveyard anyway this helps do that for alot cheaper.

[Meddling Mike]

Fella, nothing personal here, but if you bring that thing to a tournament, if you play against anything competitive you're going to get schooled, It'll be funny, I'll write in my journal at night "This kid played slaver so budget that it didn't even have duals or FoW and got schooled and it was very very funny".

That said, if you're not willing to throw down for even the basics then it's really not worthwile, budget slaver is bad enough, but not having FoW and duals is just ridiculous. My suggestions to you would be to build one of the more "mainstream" budget decks instead.

[gothcracker]

meddling mage- if your referring to me then. that stuff is added into what control slaver has. i have all the cards u named. i was just stating the difference in the two slaver decks that all

[Aykay]

alright, time to update I guess.

5x Island
3x Mountain
2x Seat of the Synod
2x Great Furnace
4x Glimmervoid
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
3x Gilded Lotus

4x Golbin Welder
4x Lightning Greaves
3x Mages' Contest
2x Pentavus
1x Platinum Angel
1x Darksteel Colossus

1x Tinker
1x Mystical Tutor
4x Thirst for Knowledge
3x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Mana Leak
3x Arcane Laboratory
3x Chromatic Sphere/Ornithopter (leaning towards sphere, still not completely sure though *shrug* )

sideboard :
4x Rack and Ruin
3x Eon Hub
1x Duplicant
4x Sacred Ground
3x Tormod's Crypt

yeah. it's different to say the least.

I'll start with the mana base - Yeah, glimmervoid's are kinda risky, but they've been golden for me.  I've actually very seldom had to sac one due to not having any artifacts out.  Yeah, I know Volcanic Islands would be better.  Once again though, I don't have any.  Still, this base rarely runs into problems getting any color of mana I need.  Also, on a good draw, I can drop a turn two gilded lotus and be set to hardcast almost anything the rest of the game.

kill - this deck is actually still quite fun to play, and versatile having 3 win conditions.  I've got the good ol slaver/pentavus recursion combo, the slaver/mages' contest kill for all of those whores who insist on lifegain (:p), and should it be necessary, tinker/colossus for some good clean beats.  (hey, a turn two tinker and dropping a d.s. colossus and beating for two turns isn't bad.)   Also, Lightning Greaves has been an awesome tech.  Whether I attach it to a welder, colossus, pentavus, or platinum angel, it's a roadblock for/protection from your opponent's hate.

other spells - Arcane laboratory.  I realized something the other day - when you don't have power or mana drains, this is actually a pretty good tempo equalizer.  Once I started testing it maindeck, I found that it generally hurt my opponents much worse than me.  and hey, I can always pitch it to FOW if needed.

sideboard : Sacred ground has generally been helpful against decks running the crucible/waste/mine lock.

[savekeeper]

Since it seems like you are actually being serious I am going to say this out loud: Mages Contest SUCKS!

Seriously, it is the most terrible card I have ever seen in a tournament decklist. The only time it is usefull is when you Mind Slaver your opponent and then you still ofcourse have to have three mana left. In every other situation it is terrible. Fun, but terrible.

It is also completly useless. Once you Mind Slaver somebody, you win, or put yourself in a position from which winning is a lot easier. You do not want a card that does nothing until the point where you Mind Slaver some-one, you want cards that are good on multiple occasions, or flat out win you the game when cast without help. (which is why Mind over Matter is not broken, and Dream Halls fair game too some)

Also, Arcane Labratoy does not help against decks that play power, but are not storm based combo. Mox-en are broken T1-2, when you don't have a Labratory out. By the time that you do, control and aggro control won't be bothered by it, atleast not enough to warrant a maindeck inclusion.

So if you are serious about this deck and plan on taking this to a tournament, please remove those godawfull Mage's Contests and put those Labratory's in your sideboard where they belong.

[Un4givenKnight]

@savekeeper I will preface this by saying you're correct in your assessment of Mage's Contest as a win condition, but you are everything that is wrong with MTG today.
If nobody reads SCG articles ill link to this one: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=9076

First you have to remember where you are: the Vintage NEWBIE Forum. This guy's deck has gotten infinitely better since the opening of this thread. I consider that a good thing. When I joined, it was becuase i took a substandard R/W aggro/prison/pile to a tournament at Neutral Ground NY and got beat down by a keeper deck. After being redirected here by my opponent (LambChopNYC on TMD), ill say that my game play and deck buliding has improved exponentially.

Here's what you said in shorter form:

OUT
3 Mages Contest
SB
3 Arcane Lab
IN
Not a bloody thing

What you have told him to do gives him an 18 card SB and a 54 card deck. I dont know what u think, but i think that the deck he had will win him a lot more games than with the changes suggested in your post. What would've been a better idea is to tell him what to put in instead.

After that short rant i will say that the basic idea is correct. Slaver is a difficult deck to play on a budget. At the very least, you're going to need some Volcanic Islands. The Mage's contest needs to go, maybe for some sort of artifact fat like perhaps a Jug. Intuition is very very useful in a Slaver deck. I might also look into an Ancient Tomb or two, as they can accelerate you, and CS is one of those decks that can take some pain but still win you the game. Good work so far.

[savekeeper]

I guess my post was a little bit too harsh, I just wanted to make sure my point came across.

I also already gave him a decklist which I think is better so he could always look at that for replacements.

Anyway I would remove those 6 cards en replace them with:

1 Mana Leak
4 Fetchland
1 Volcanic Island

This build only runs 16 land which is way too few for a control deck. I know Volcanic Island is expensive but by running fetchland 1 Volcanic (which should be doable) you can search for it and have some more consistancy.

Also, I would definatly play Chromatic Sphere over Ornithopter. Ornithopter may be free, but it doesn't do anything besides being a Welder target. You don't want that, or atleast not a lot of that. You want artifacts that are good even when there is no Welder in play. Chromatic Spere is better because it will help with your lack of duals.
Other options are Phyrexian Furnace or Aether Spellbomb.

[warble]

Hey, if you are budget, you should run all of the broken cards you can afford.  On that note, I suggest:

Wheel of Fortune
Memory Jar (obvi)
Time Spiral

and every budget deck loves these three....

Null Rod
Chalice of the Void
Gorilla Shaman (also known to the world as the mox monkey)

True, your artifacts will suffer.  But you're running basically 4cc and in the absence of any power dude you need null rod and chalice.  Your welder can exchange them for you, and seriously you want to take on power decks?  Run 4 of each.

Edit:  Who told you to take out chalice!   Bad boy!

[Aykay]

thanks for the suggestions, I've made some considerable changes in the last day or so.

By the way, I came up with something today when toying around.  I'm assuming I'm not the first to come up with this, but instead of using Pentavus, it's alot easier - and alot more practical - to run some artifact lands + crucible for the slaver lock.

I know this deck still hasn't quite made it up to par, but I think it's improved alot just over the last few days.
mana : 23
5x Island
3x Mountain
3x Glimmervoid
2x Ancient Tomb
2x Seat of the Synod
2x Great Furnace
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
3x Gilded Lotus

prison : 15
4x Goblin Welder
4x Lightning Greaves
2x Mindslaver
3x Crucible of Worlds
1x Platinum Angel
1x Karn, Silver Golem (testing him in place of colossus, liking him so far)

Draw/tutor/counters : 22
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Tinker
1x Wheel of Fortune
4x Thirst for Knowledge
3x Serum Visions
2x Cunning Wish
3x Fabricate
4x Force of Will
3x Counterspell

sideboard
3x Rack and Ruin
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Eon Hub
3x Lightning Bolt
3x Arcane Laboratory

changes
-1 Colossus, -3 Mages' Contest, -1 slaver, -2 pentavus, -3 Arcane laboratory (boarded), sideboard reconfigured (-4x sacred ground, -1 Duplicant)

+1 Karn, +3 Crucible of Worlds, +1 Wheel of Fortune, +2 Cunning Wish, +3 Fabricate,
Counterspell added in place of Mana Leak, Serum Visions in place of Brainstorms.  (I've had good experiences with both, but mana leak is weak after the early game, and Brainstorm doesn't always dig as deep.)


so yeah, it's been changing alot. Thanks for the critiques though,
-ay


edit : any thoughts on choosing between Lightning Bolts and Lava Darts for the sideboard?

[ChaosTheory]

edit : any thoughts on choosing between Lightning Bolts and Lava Darts for the sideboard?

Lava dart seems to be the chioce card nowadays. Even if it's countered you can flash it back, therefore giving you two copies of it per 1 that you run.
Bolt can help take out bigger creatures like Juggys, but if it gets countered, you can't reuse it.
Lava Dart is infinitely better in most cases due to flashback, making it harded to stop + It's card advantage  

[LotusHead]

For budget Slaver decks, Artificer's Intuition can be a nice addition.

You simply put in some Great Furnace/Seat of the Synod's (which apparently you did) and can tutor them up as needed (pitching Slaver, Trike, or whatever).  With Crucible of Worlds, you can get them back.

I would suggest cutting 1 Serum Visions and 1 Lightning Greaves for 2 AI's.  Artificer's Intuition costs $1 at your local store.

One of the Local Kids does this to some good effect fix his mana base, shuffle after Brainstorm etc, but his deck is packed with 2 Slavers, 2 Titans, 2 Trisk, Karn, Memory Jar, Platinum Angel and a bunch of other stuff.

Lightning Greaves are tech, no matter what anyone else says, when you don't have Drains, Forces or TimeWalk/Ancestral/Lotus etc.

Good luck!

[Aykay]

@ artificer's intuition : Fabricate has worked great for me already for the effect that you're suggesting.  

@ Lava Darts : Yeah, that's what I figured, but with only 3 mountains and no blood moon, is it really worth it?


Also, this version has, thus far, been the most consistent and winningest build yet.  Still though, I'm really thinking about tweaking some stuff around to try and find room for :
Triskelion
Chalice of the Void
Juggernaut (though with Karn, I've been having plenty of fun with Gilded Lotus beats :-p)
Blue/Red Elemental Blast

-the last two of those seem incredibly helpful, against mana drains, FOW, welder, etc.  

So, I'm guessing my sideboard is gonna start looking something like :
3x Rack and Ruin
2x Eon Hub
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Arcane Laboratory
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Lava Dart

*shrug*

back to testing......