Choose 6 cards in Control Slaver

[warble]

Hi, I'd like to start with the fact that my Control Slaver build is very solid.  However, the choice I face going into a tournament is tweaking a meager 6 cards.  What I want to finalize is what 6 cards are the choice for a metagame dominated by Control Slaver:

Current Metagame 6:
1 Lava Dart
1 Cunning Wish
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Shivan Reef
2 Duress

My 54 SOLID cards:

Mana 24:
5 mox
black lotus
sol ring
mana crypt
mana vault
Library of Alexandria
4 flooded strand
4 volcanic island
2 underground sea
3 island
1 seat of the synod

Draw 9:
Ancestral Recall
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm

Counter 8:
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

Creature 4:
4 Goblin Welder

Artifact 4:
Memory Jar
Pentavus
Mindslaver
Platinum Angel

Broken 5:
Demonic Tutor
Mystical Tutor
Time Walk
Yawgmoth's Will
Tinker

First, I would like to note that I am NOT going to change ANY CARDS from the 54 listed.  Yes, I know platinum is a little sketchy, but it won me too many games to ever get cut from my maindeck.  In many situations it is my ONLY out against another deck and as such it will stay.

So, on to the metagame.  This current metagame is tweaked against 2 main items: Control Slaver Mirror and TPS/Dragon Combo.

Mirror:
The metagame tweak consists of the core artifact hate for the mirror, Gorilla Shaman, Lava Dart to "put me over the edge" and 2 Duress for a counter-war, forcing through my Yawgmoth's Will in almost every case.  Shivan Reef is in to ensure a first turn Red for Goblin Welder, usually milking a force and giving an immediate card advantage.  Cunning Wish typically makes it's appearance for either Blue/Red Blast, Rack and Ruin, Fact or Fiction, or Lava Dart.  I only lost a game 1 against Rich Shay with the current tweak against Control Slaver, so I know it is solid in the mirror.

TPS/Dragon:
The metagame tweak is relatively weak here, giving me only Duress and 4 dead cards.  This is something I would love to address, is maindeck Tormod's Crypt bad/good enough to consider here?  It has the same strength against slaver mirror, but I haven't seen it in any Control Slaver build...well...ever...

Oath:
My metagame is virtually dead here.  One thing I would like to address is a metagame that is just as solid against CS, but that has adaptability against Oath.  My sole recompense is Lava Dart and Wish buying me 1-2 turns.  This will almost always be enough, but with 4 dead cards (Duress does nothing for me, shaman and land similarly) I have a terrible match with Oath.  If I come up against an Oath metagame at a tournament, and this is quite likely in the NE these days... I really need a tweak that drops duress/shaman/land and puts in those powerhouses that will make Oath suffer.  I'm not talking sideboard, my Claws and Spawning Pit can take post-side easily, I'm talking I want game 1 so when Oath goes broken I have an answer.  If I concede game 1, Oath is broken enough to be able to take 50%+ post-sideboard against me (even if I do have 6-8 sideboard sadly enough) which is reason enough to tweak against it.  Oath is a primary concern with my current metagame tweak, because the first rounds can be dominated with Oath (even if it does get eliminated in the latter ones).

Stax:
I thought I would just mention this although it's pretty much not a concern after the 20th.  Again, the tormod's crypt tweak would be very strong, but perhaps 2 Disrupting Shoal should be my choice if I consider Stax to be a threat?  Again, consider the 54 "solid" cards before making this choice, I will be able to toss Oath pretty handily as well.  Disrupting Shoal may be the best tweak for the overall metagame as well, especially if control begins to run Shoalx2 maindeck and it is a winner...don't know yet.

I'd love to hear feedback on the "pivotal 6"  Please no disrespect for my 54, I know again yes platinum is dead in a mirror, but the metagame protects me against the mirror so I'd like to see what I can tweak to keep that strength against mirror and become stronger against a more diverse crowd (smaller tournament).

[Denney The Third]

OKay here's my thoughts: the cunning wish should be 2 ofs and you should have instant speed hate cards for every deck in your sideboard. against oath you can risk STP with your few white sources or you can use diabolic edict. Either one nails SoTn and akroma pretty good and a sideboard coffin purge will rfg them after killing them.  
Against dragon you just try to wi game one and counter there spells then turn two you put in the coffing purge hate and some removal that bones them when they combo.(yet again STP)
The extra shivan reef would probably be better as amountain bc basic lands are very good currently. I agree that Lava drat is very good against any deck running welders and can just be sided out for answers against oath and whatever else you run into.
As for disrupting shall after seeing it in play with some friends I think it is too slow and not very consistant but it's up to you to run it.
I'd make more comments but you want your main deck left alone.

[warble]

HEy denney,

  I will definitely consider 2x cunning wish, I haven't considered devoting a large portion of my side to wish since I do prefer adaptability and being able to beat the mirror, tps, dragon, fcg, and workshop currently does take up 13 of my 15 slots.

  Coffin Purge seems a bit odd, because what you are essentially saying is try to play a 4cc game with control slaver using drain/wish in the event of a dragon matchup.  Also, coffin purge would mean that post-side I would prefer a 3-underground-sea deck and as the current land choice leans towards red in a post-side (3 red blasts, 2 rack and ruin, and only 1 duress) I believe my maindeck would have to run 3 duress and 3 underground sea for this to be correct.  If you think I should lean towards 3 duress for a metagame choice against 4cc, that's understandable because I like that choice my 3rd duress does make it into the sideboard.  I'd like to hear more about the potential of coffin purge, seeing as I have never maindecked 2 cunning wishes in my slaver.  In fact, I am just coming from a 2 blood-moon deck that was slaughtered a few months ago by the slaver mirror gaining so much popularity.  Would you run 2 coffin purge sideboard as well as 2 crypts, making my board 8 large against dragon (3 BeB, 2 crypt, 2 purge, 1 duress)?  Just curious because it does have some nice interaction with the mirror making it a non-dead card against quite a few decks and giving it potential to beat out rack and ruin as a wish target in some cases.

  As for Swords to Plowshares, you realize that I have 2 sources of white in the deck, right?  Would you be more in favor of diabolic edict especially if I go to a 3 underground sea build with a 3rd duress maindeck?  Plow is, yes I agree, the best creature control ever printed.  That being said, is it worth it to waste a sideboard slot on a card I will usually only play by turn 10?  If I have something like plow, I have an answer to 90% of my problems, but with no white sources aside from mox/lotus I am just not sure how I will be able to play that.  It seems a little too situational, and I just don't agree that it is the right choice, even given that it is the UBER creature control best ever printed dude ridiculous.

  Thanks for the criticism, I will try a playtest with 2 wishes and a diabolic edict sideboard, let you know what the answer is.  Just as a note, cunning wish is much more suitable to a deck that runs maindeck swords to plowshares, and because of slaver's lack of answers to board threats aside from wish itself, welder dart and of course slaver/platinum, it seems like cunning wish will in many circumstances force me to refocus the bomb element of slaver to a control/beatdown tactic simply because instead of a threat I will get a turn devoted to answering a threat, and because of this lose the impetus thereby making slaver into a control/aggro sort of deck that expects one answer to be enough to sustain.  However, an additional blue will make force very happy so blue card suggestions are always wonnnnderful to hear.

[CMass]

Consider Echoing Truth.  It's solid against Dragon and Oath and can be useful in the mirror for bouncing Welders, either to protect yours from removal or to get opposing ones off the table for a crucial turn.  I would at least try it in place of Gorilla Shaman and maybe C. Wish.

[ChaosTheory]

Don't go too overboard with making your sideboard completely wish targets that are one of's. Not saying that this was your plan, just pointing it out.
I would say make half of your board wish targets that way you can still pack other non instant hate as well as have a solid board in game 2 against other decks, rather than having the whole/most of your sideboard devoted to 1'ofs.

For instance you could run a board that looks like this: (Taken from the Slaver build that was top 8 in Syracuse) Note *The list only ran one wish*

Non wish targets

3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Tormod's Crypt

Wish targets

1 Echoing Truth
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Coffin Purge
3 Rack and Ruin
2 Lava Dart
2 Red Elemental Blast

A sideboard like this not only gives you flexibility when using wishes, but it also has enough copies of most of the wish targets to make an impact in game 2 if you board out the wishes.
You can also for instance leave 1 Rack and Ruin ni the board, as well as boarding in two so that you have one to wish for as well as two maindeck.

You could run a board that looks something like this for example:

1-2 Coffin Purge
2-3 Rack and Ruin
2 Tormod's Crypt
1-2 Diabolic Edict
2-3 REB
3 other slots

Just some suggestions, I hope at least some of this helps.

[warble]

Thanks, I've been considering a more diversified board for wish, but it hasn't come up enough to be "a lifesaver".  Could be just that I haven't had targets good enough to wish for!

With respect to changing my deck, I was really hoping someone would suggest Triskelion maindeck and justify it, because it's one of the cards I'm really considering at least one of.  In a heavily-dominated-CS tournament obviously I would take out Plat and have 2 Trisks, but I'd like to see what you think it's effect is on other matchups specifically TPS, Dragon, FCG, and Workshop Slavery.  % of the time I can hope to resolve hardcast against such decks and effect on mirror with lava dart versus Triskelion would be what I hope we can talk about a little at least.

As for sideboard, my current sideboard (and I'm giving you my friggin HEART on a stake here) is

SB Removed

Giving me a pretty decent matchup against most decks, allowing me a side of up to 10 in the mirror.  That being out there, I expect a fresh new slew of commentary.  It's weak against dragon and oath, but can be adjusted by cutting duress/maindecking fact in a oath/dragon heavy environment that the metagame is currently NOT.  Anyhow, you can use this as reference when discussing the 6 cards Maindeck that I really REALLY want to tweak.

There are 6 cards in Control Slaver that everyone (EVERYONE) tweaks and I'd love to discuss the benefits and potential downsides of each card tweak

[Outlaw]

Alright coming from a CS players perspective, Trisk is the money, period.  It's a #1 tinker target vs. CS and vs. aggro (aside from the bus).  It has won me so many games (especially vs. intution slavery) where you tinker in the trisk and they cant remove it from lack of wish/truth.  Personally I hate platinum angel in the deck now because vs. combo they will just rebuild / chain it eot or whatever and it looses its sole purpose.  Pesonally I run 2 duress / 1 titan / 1 wish (I think was in my last build) and I also run some secret secret tech =)

[warble]

Ah, you would suggest

1 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelion.

And I'm guessing you would cut my:

UBER maindeck Platinum Angel (arrrrrgh)
Gorilla Shaman

Preserving the Shaman's main purpose of hate against low-cc artifacts not to mention it houses weenie artifact decks and on turn 3 eats moxen like a little grubworm.  Looking at the other cards 2 duress 1 wish, those I already have in my 6.

Why do I leave platinum in?  Because when I face off against a non-top-tier type 1 deck I slaughter with pentavus or platinum alternatively, and if I don't have platinum it's actually sometimes hard to win against stupid decks like sui black.  Don't ask me how, it just is sometimes sui black duress+hymns you and you lose end of story.  With platinum out I can win with soooo many cards in my deck against sui black/monored it's actually disgusting.

So I'd probably be cutting the lava dart for sundering titan, and going aggro at the expense of one of my bestest most beautiful cards that I have ever discovered (Rich had to show it to us) which I am not gonna do because maindeck lava dart in a mirror is game/set and with triskelion it's just adding insult to injury.

However, the popularity of slaver beatdown is gaining on me, so if some other people say hey man go slaver beatdown it's the next CS I may consider it.  Intuition slaver likes Titan a lot better then the real slaver right now but hey why Titan over Colossus again?  Is the land destruct key enough to justify not having an indestructable 11/11?  *ponder* I mean I like colossus as a tinker target a bit too you know...  Well titan does have a little control with the land hate so maybe in mirror it really is a house?  Jeez there are so many great 6+ cost artifacts and I can only run 5 guys maybe 6 if I go insane...  I lost at GP Boston one win out of T8(4-2) because I drew into a hand of Mindslaverx2 Platinum Angel Pentavus with a welder on the table so I'm not keen on running too many of those ****ers after that you know...

[Outlaw]

In intution slavey I run yawgs, trisk and titan.  In tradition slavery I go with Pentavus and trisk and X, where X is your metagame call.  The reason that titan is better than colososs is because your opponent will end up welding him out, while with titan you can weld him in and out destroying your opponents board netting you card advantage.  7/10 swinging vs. Oath kills Akroma, Spirit and Hydra as vanilla as it really is.

[Meddling Mike]

Allright, I'm a bit burnt out on reading threads so if the ideas I put forth here have already been suggested then please disregard them.

I know you said you wouldn't cut anything from your "solid" cards, but I'm going to have to urge you to cut memory Jar ESPECIALLY in a metagame composed mostly of mirror matches, typically this allows your opponent to load up on some random counters for the spells you do draw and allows them to pitch any fat they may draw into the yard. Dragon has a better chance of winning off Jar then you do. Oath will draw into ample counters for whatever it is you draw into. My suggestion for a replacement would be triskelion, he's awesome in the mirror and not bad as an all around beat stick.

DO NOT CUT PLATS I REPEAT DO NOT CUT PLATS. Against aggro decks she'll often times be your best plan. She's also the nutz vs. Dragon, if you get her on the table dragon typically can't deal. Also, if Dragon decks you and you have a random artifact and an active welder you can weld her in in before you draw to prevent losing the game.

I also noticed that you are running a single mindslaver, I'd encourage you to run two, getting off a mindslaver before your oppoent is KEY to winning the mirror match. I also noticed that you're missing Fact or Fiction MD, unless you insist on running 2xCunning Wish I would change this. I'd encourage you not to run a shivan reef, basic island, another underground sea or a darksteel citadel would be superior. This brings me to my next point, run darksteel citadel over seat, citadel is wasteland proof and an insurance policy vs gorilla shaman, as a one of it just makes more sense than a seat. If you choose to run 2 wish make sure to make your sideboard accordingly, but don't go overboard, just make sure you have REB/BEB, lava dart and a draw spell (usually either FoF or Gush would be my suggestion)


Some suggestions I would make that you haven't included would be to try out skeletal scrying, it's not bad in the mirror as your life total is rarely a consideration, you can also remove targets in your graveyard in response to your opponent welding something of yours (Example: you tinker up a mindslaver, your opponent tries to weld it out for the mox you sacrificed to tinker you remove it with scrying in response)

The reason that titan is better than colososs is because your opponent will end up welding him out, while with titan you can weld him in and out destroying your opponents board netting you card advantage. 7/10 swinging vs. Oath kills Akroma, Spirit and Hydra as vanilla as it really is.

The reason Titan is better than colossus is really not that complicated, the fact of the matter is that a certain ability on DSC is somewhat anti-synergistic with welder mechanics

Also, coffin purge=the bad, BEB is just better, purge ideally gets rid of two welding targets, BEB gets rid of the welder. Coffin Purge keeps dragon from going off, BEB removes all their permanents from the game in the same situation.

Second, Diabolic edict is bad, echoing truth>Diabolic Edict vs. Oath, now if they want their akroma back they at least have to have the brainstorm to get it on top of their library or better yet it can bounce the oath before it gets activated. If you diabolic edict akroma they'll just oath is up again next turn, so basically you'll have paid 5 mana to gain 6 life...moment's peace could do that, and it flashes back. Everything else you may want to remove you should have a better way to do it than diabolic edict in the mirror they might just have some dumb unimportant creature to sacrifice instead....like a pentavite token.

[warble]

In light of the absense of Trinisphere, my deck has CUT A MANA.  Yes, that's correct I'm down to 24 mana and 2 basics because workshop was the only time I ever need more then 1 mana.  I'm even considering dropping the 2 islands, in mirror they are absolutely THE stupidest cards I play.  So -1 island, +1 Fact or Fiction maindeck.  Other change is -1 gorilla shaman (maindeck artifact hate unnecessary with workshop out of the way), +1 Triskelion.  These two changes are mainly due to Trinisphere leaving the format, thank you DCI I love you.

Notes about cards in SB:  Echoing Truth did not make the sideboard again, and I have cut the 1 SB Duress.  Diabolic Edict is not good enough to be played in CS(sorry) but Skeletal Scrying may maindeck itself on me soon.  However, no room in SB for Scrying.  On a separate note, my girlfriend whooped me pre-sideboard with red/green aggro and monored goblins in a non-sideboard match yesterday.  Both decks slaughtered first turn tinker, making me wish I had darksteel colossus in my deck against them.  Any feelings about a colossus instead of one of the 6?  Anyone?  Maybe a sideboard colossus for first turn tinker against goblins?  That makes for 3 decks that slaughter CS, not happy about it, but still not maindecking lightning greaves to fight aggro.  May have to if I can't win any matches against goblins or aggro soon.  Or I might just put 2 Pyrokinetics and 2 Nev's Disks back in my sideboard to slaughter aggro again (it's brutal) but then what to cut...

feel free to comment on the 6 MD

Current Metagame 6:
1 Lava Dart
1 Cunning Wish
1 Triskelion
1 Shivan Reef
2 Duress

My 54 SOLID cards:

Mana 23:
5 mox
black lotus
sol ring
mana crypt
mana vault
Library of Alexandria
4 flooded strand
4 volcanic island
2 underground sea
2 island
1 seat of the synod

Draw 10:
Ancestral Recall
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
Fact or Fiction

Counter 8:
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

Creature 4:
4 Goblin Welder

Artifact 4:
Memory Jar
Pentavus
Mindslaver
Platinum Angel

Broken 5:
Demonic Tutor
Mystical Tutor
Time Walk
Yawgmoth's Will
Tinker

SB:

Sideboard Removed

[warble]

Hi,

  The sideboard did not seem to generate much commentary, and as it is my most original (and well guarded secret) part of my deck I have removed it.  Any comments about the 6 MD cards is appreciated, I have already decided to maindeck:

Triskelion

and remove:

Sylvan Reef

Any other commentary is great, I am playtesting against assassin right now and slaver still DESTROYS it so I am not concerned about assassin.  Too many dead cards in assassin to play against a control deck, IMO.

[doomhed]

you absolutely need to remove the memory jar. it is going to hurt you so many times more often than it is going to help you. the last thing you want to give most of todays decks is another 7 chances to counter key spells, or a way to throw fat in thier yard for them to weld in in the mirror. cut it for the second mindlsaver

[warble]

About memory jar:

The average number of cards I draw with memory jar is not, as you would expect, 7.  I would say I average about 14-21 cards per jar, and the welder synergy is absolutely ridiculous.  Additionally, with only 1 mindslaver in my deck, it is vital that I have another tutor target aside from slaver that is broken.  With a welder on the table and a tinker in hand, I have to win if tinker resolves, and will force through tinker if necessary.  This being said, I'm not sure if triskelion can adequately replace jar ESPECIALLY with an active welder.  Yes, one jar alone is not so ridiculous (let me note I have hardcast jar first turn pop for Lotus+mox+mox+mystical+ancestral before so it can be) but if you run tutors in your deck and duress and lava dart it sure gets there fast.  A quick tally of 1-cost-spells leads me to believe I can still safely run jar.  Yes, the first spell off a jar may get forced, but dude the 2nd through 4th won't and that is what counts.  Just play in the proper order and there shouldn't be any problems.  In the instance where I drew lotus+mox+mox+mystical+ancestral I play LOTUS first to milk the counter, then lead with mox+mox+ancestral, finally end with mystical for walk.  The other option is to lead with mox+mox+mystical, then lotus+ancestral, but I preferred to resolve mystical over lotus because I already had 6 mana on the table plus tinker in the aside hand plus vault tapped as my tinker target.  Does jar ever cost me a game, or is jar ever a dead card?  Yes, but it is so necessary for welders to be able to DRAW as well as producing MANA that I believe welder synergy is hurt very badly by the absence of jar.  If 3 welders can produce 9 mana with a lotus in the graveyard, why not let them draw you 21 cards with a jar there?  If you remove jar, you remove all of the draw power that welders can give you.  The only way I can cut jar is but maindecking a pair of skeletal scrying, that being said, what do you think about a pair of THOSE bad boys?  For the same cost, I have an additional "option" for mana drain as well as an "out" against the mirror.  The loss of a unquestionably broken artifact to slaver is not an option I will take right now, but if I can hear some justification for skeletal scrying I will playtest harder.  Also, about scrying, do you think 2 or 3 maindeck?  With the absence of jar, my draw power is severely reduced, so forcing through an early welder is no longer a "good" play and the deck becomes far more reactive.  Would you cut lava dart + duress + memory jar for skeletaly scrying?  The deck needs an overhaul of at least 3 cards if jar must be cut, it can't just "vanish" because the impact is immense.

So, just for the record, I would say that cutting memory jar means cutting at least 1 duress and lava dart, and maindecking 3 skeletal scrying.  What do you think?

[StarOrc]

About Memory Jar: It is very important to note that if your opponent Slaves you, they can use the Jar after the End of Turn effects have resolved and end up keeping the new seven until the end of their next turn. Personnally I have found that Memory Jar wasn't pulling the weight I expected of it. I found that about half the time it won me the game by giving me the goods and the other half I would get 4 counters 2 land and Yawg Will.  It seemed to me that more utility or actual card draw would be better. Also it seems like a second Mindslaver would win you the game if you Tinker and it resolves.

About Skeletal Scrying: This card has been HUGE for me as of late. I've been running it since Waterbury and I've loved it. Skeletal Scrying is efficient and Instant Speed card drawing that can push you ahead unlike Jar. There are other benifits of Scrying, such as its flexibility as an early game card for a number like 2 or a late game card for somewhere near 7 or 8 cards, and the ability to remove possible welding targets for your opponent's welders. One last thing I would like to point out is that Scrying can't be REBed post board, which can absolutely break the game in half. I've been running 2 in my build and I feel that 3 might be a little overboard because of the life loss.

Personnally I would change more about your build than just the final 6 cards that you would like critique on.
I would cut these cards from your "54 SOLID cards":
1 Mana Vault
1 Seat of Synod
1 Platinum Angel
1 Memory Jar
and these from your 6 Metagame Slots:
1 Shivan Reef
2 Duress

For
2 Skeletal Scrying
1 Strip Mine
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Mindslaver

However because you are just asking about the last 6 slots here are my suggestions:
-1 Shivan Reef
+1 Underground

You want to consistently be able to cast Duress, Demonic, and Will. I've actually had turns where I want to cast all three on the same turn so I feel 3 Black sources is probably the minimum if you are running Duress.

One final Sidenote on the 6 Metagame slots is that when I tested Wish it always seemed a little too slow for me. Have you tested with the Wish as a Maindecked Echoing Truth, it ussually handles all the problem cards the deck faces.

Peace

Corey