Star Wars Dialogue- Hot or Not?

[jcb193]

After seeing Revenge of the Sith and trying to be optimistic, i was still disappointed to find that George Lucas still has a knack for taking an otherwise perfect movie and injecting just a few lines of dialogue that make me groan.

Example:

1.) Having Wookies make Tarzan sounds when swinging on vines (which happens in ROTJ and ROTS).
2.) Luke saying "I care."
3.) Love scenes between Padme and Anakin, etc etc.
4.) Darth Vader's frankenstein like "noooo."
5.) Jar Jar Binks saying anything

You know what i am talking about.  The few scenes or lines of dialogue that you would pay anything to be able to leave on the editing room floor. 

EDIT:  I changed this poll to reflect which movie could have been the best if it weren't for a couple of trademark George Lucas "unacceptable lines of dialogue."  Example:  If you think that Phantom Menace could not be a good movie, no matter how much it could be edited, don't vote for it.  Vote for the movie you think could have been the most perfect, if it werent for those few lines.

Discuss: Which groaner is the least acceptable- of any of his movies.

[forests failed you]

I was unable to believe that the line "you are breaking my heart" appeared in Revenge of the Sith.  Awful, absolutely awful.

[MrZuccinniHead]

If it wasn't for the Ewoks, Return of the Jedi would have been a much better movie.  It gets my vote.  Overall best is Empire Strikes back obv.

[Komatteru]

When Vader was like, "Where is Padme? Is she alright?" we all groaned a bit.  It just didn't sound like something the Vader we all know and love would say.

[Joblin Velder]

When Vader was like, "Where is Padme? Is she alright?" we all groaned a bit.  It just didn't sound like something the Vader we all know and love would say.

Totally. This and the "Blinded By Love" scene are the only problems I really saw with the movie.

[Godder]

When Vader was like, "Where is Padme? Is she alright?" we all groaned a bit.  It just didn't sound like something the Vader we all know and love would say.

Wasn't that the point? I took that as being an indication that there was still humanity there, until it was crushed by learning that he had killed her.

[Komatteru]

When Vader was like, "Where is Padme? Is she alright?" we all groaned a bit.  It just didn't sound like something the Vader we all know and love would say.

Wasn't that the point? I took that as being an indication that there was still humanity there, until it was crushed by learning that he had killed her.

The line just didn't sound right.  The idea was fine, it was the words themselves that didn't really sound like they should have.  It sounded too much like whiny Anakin from Episode II, not the glowing eyes Sith Lord Vader he transformed into by the end of the film--well, not so much that, as Vader from New Hope, Empire, etc.

[VonDouche]

I think that anything Yoda has said in the past two movies should go on there.  "Around the survivors a perimeter create"?  Nobody would talk like that.  When he did it for subtle things it was awesome, but this has just been awkward as hell.

[Komatteru]

I think that anything Yoda has said in the past two movies should go on there.  "Around the survivors a perimeter create"?  Nobody would talk like that.  When he did it for subtle things it was awesome, but this has just been awkward as hell.

Agree. They got a bit carried away on the Yoda backwards talk.

[forests failed you]

Jdizzle, I have heard you say a lot of dumb things over the course of the many conversations we have had at Ram's Horn, Pandimonium and abroad;  however, asserting that Darth Vader has "glowing eyes," is perhaps the worst you have ever said.  Vader has a black mask with pitch black eyes, and they most certainly, DO NOT GLOW.  Other than that, I agree with everything you said, and can't wait to see you and your crew at the Timetwister tourney for some Type 1, and Type 4 next week.

The line at the end when Obi-Wan Kennobi tells Darth Vader:  "You can't win; I've got the high ground."  is quickly becoming a new team favorite phrase. 

[Dr. Sylvan]

Jdizzle, I have heard you say a lot of dumb things over the course of the many conversations we have had at Ram's Horn, Pandimonium and abroad;  however, asserting that Darth Vader has "glowing eyes," is perhaps the worst you have ever said.  Vader has a black mask with pitch black eyes, and they most certainly, DO NOT GLOW.  Other than that, I agree with everything you said, and can't wait to see you and your crew at the Timetwister tourney for some Type 1, and Type 4 next week.

Seriously, did you see Episode III yet? He has glowing eyes up until the last like 10 minutes. I think The Diz was pretty clearly talking about that, not Goth Vader.

I was fine with Wookiees, with "Noooo", and with many other things that I only notice because they just seem slightly off to my preconceived expectations. What I couldn't take were the deadpan lines. Sometimes it seemed like they had done one take and just decided not to try to get a better performance (e.g., Obi-Wan "I'm sorry"). And they managed to make Yoda, one of the coolest characters in the history of cinema, annoying with the overused word order gimmick. And every time someone said "younglings" I think I had an aneurysm, but it happened so many times I can't be sure. As I've been telling friends in AIM, Kenobi may as well have said "He killed the KOALA BEARS" for all the dramatic impact of the horrific neologism.

I walked out of the theater feeling really conflicted, because in soooo many ways this was the coolest of the six. It just seems like if someone had the balls to tell Lucas when a line needed a phrase changed, or when to take a less deadpan version of a line's delivery in the editing process, the movie could have so easily exceeded the epic-awesomeness benchmark set by TESB. I mean, it was all there, and then he tightened his grip, and more star systems slipped through his fingers. All I can say is thank goodness for Ian McDiarmid. His dialogue strength was undoubtedly the backbone of the movie, and I will doubtless be verbally fellating his performance for the next few decades.

[jcb193]

I too agree with most of you.  I think the appeal of the first few movies (episode 4-6) is that the dialogue seemed natural, not forced.  These were people you could relate to, talk with, and understand their actions.

In episodes 1-3, i never once thought that any of the characters seemed the least bit natural.  All of their dialogue was so forced and awkward.  These people don't talk and act like normal people.  That is why each line that seemed a little out of place was magnified. 

On the other hand, last night (after viewing Sith), i still felt strong emotions.  Lucas did evoke the despair, the transformation, and the sorrow.  I felt like screaming out against Anakin, mace, and Yoda.  But maybe that is because i have been old enough to "live" Star Wars. 

The only other thing that concerns me is that i don't know how often i will want to "rewatch" these films (episode 1-3).  I just watched Episode 4 last night and it still felt fresh, fun, and a movie i can watch enjoyably for the rest of my life.  I fear that Episode 1-3, will be relegated to DVD skip status for life (where i only watch certain scenes).

I was satisfied with the way Lucas delivered the emotions of the film (minus Padme and Anakin love affair), i just wish i didn't have to sit there feeling embarassed for some of the dialogue.   Trust me, if this was some Nicholas Cage, Will Smith  or Vin Diesel film (which is where some of this dialogue belongs), none of us would be extolling these movies.

Fortunately for us, we want to love Star Wars.

 

[jcb193]

And every time someone said "younglings" I think I had an aneurysm, but it happened so many times I can't be sure. As I've been telling friends in AIM, Kenobi may as well have said "He killed the KOALA BEARS" for all the dramatic impact of the horrific neologism.

I too have been trying to figure this out and the only way i can understand it is that Lucas was trying to soften the emotional impact of the murdered younglings for children in the audience. 

If you took your 6-yr old brother/sister to the theater, i think it would be easier for them to hear:

"He killed the younglings."  than:

"He murdered the children."

Does this make sense, because there has to be some reason.  And a good reason, because the use of the word younglings take out almost all of the shock and terror of Anakin murdering children. 

[MrZuccinniHead]

Seriously, did you see Episode III yet? He has glowing eyes up until the last like 10 minutes. I think The Diz was pretty clearly talking about that, not Goth Vader.

No, Goth Vader is when they added Intuitions and the AK draw engine with yawg will.

[Cross]

I agree younglings is a terrible term. Also, did anyone notice that Obi wan has to take his hood/cape off every time he fights someone? Seems like he'd save some time and not bring it at all. It kinda bugged me because it was supposed to have like a heroic look, but when you do it every time it gets really lame.

[Machinus]

Sometimes it seemed like they had done one take and just decided not to try to get a better performance (e.g., Obi-Wan "I'm sorry").

I really really liked it when Obi-Wan said "I'm so sorry" to Padme. He realizes that she is carrying the children of this powerful force, and that they are not going to have a father. He has been good friends with both of them until this point, and he had already accepted (almost) that he was going to lose Anakin since he had to destroy him. He also realizes at that moment that he has lost her as well, and he is commenting on her naivety for getting herself involved, and for deceiving the Jedi about what was really going on. The apology to me symbolizes the entire destruction of Padme, and Obi-Wan's stoic acceptance of her grim fate.

[Moxlotus]

"Noooooooooooooo!"
"You can't win; I've got the high ground."

Those were absolutely terrible.  Other than that I loved the movie.

[Komatteru]

Other than that, I agree with everything you said, and can't wait to see you and your crew at the Timetwister tourney for some Type 1, and Type 4 next week.

If by my crew, you mean me, then ok. I pretty much fly solo these days, save when I'm down here in Terre Haute and drag everyone along somewhere, or get them to give me a ride.

As a side note, the film has made me obsessed with the concept of the Dark Side.  I am convinced that I'm walking the path to the Dark Side myself.  The Dark Side of what, I'm not sure, but I'm convinced I'm going there somehow.

[Dr. Sylvan]

A second viewing makes the movie immensely better. I didn't even cringe this time. Younglings still fails me (jcb's explanatory efforts notwithstanding) but I can forgive Lucas for his failures thanks to this conclusion.

[jcb193]

A second viewing makes the movie immensely better. I didn't even cringe this time.

That's what i am hoping.  I figure that since the anticipation was so utterly undeniable, that a more casual viewing of the movie would be nice.  It's too hard to be fully objective when you have waited for a movie like this. 

That said, i think that a very important question to ask our 16-20 year old members:

What is your opinion of episode 4-6?

Since you guys didn't grow up on Episode 4-6, do you have a different take on them?  Are they cheesy?  Are the special effects distracting?  Is the acting horrible?

I ask this because since i am 28yrs old, i grew up on the early Star Wars and that is why the new trilogy feels so different.  How does one (that grew up on episodes 1-3) feel about episodes 4-6?

[hulk3rules]

I hate how everyone makes such a big deal of the "Noooo" line.  Luke's "That can't be, that's impossible" is just as terrible, if not worse, yet everyone loves TESB.  The line was fine, the delivery was fine

This movie kicked ass

[jcb193]

I hate how everyone makes such a big deal of the "Noooo" line.

For me it wasn't the line "noooo" as much as the entire scene.  Blatant Frankenstein motif, Darth's awkward fist shaking in the air (instead of falling to his knees, which i think visually would have worked better at least), and the obligatory camera panning out on this scene.  I think they should have instead shown him in a fit of anger, not despair.

That said, i watched episodes 4-6 this week and i think Lucas did a very fine job of tying it all together.  Granted there are some continuity issues, but overall- stellar!  I just hope that i will want to watch these new films over and over like i did the old ones- that remains to be seen.

JB

[Revvik]

What is your opinion of episode 4-6?

Since you guys didn't grow up on Episode 4-6, do you have a different take on them?  Are they cheesy?  Are the special effects distracting?  Is the acting horrible?

Horrible acting?  Yes.  Cheesy?  Yes.  Distracting special effects... hell, not really.  Better than par for its time, I think.  Although I didn't "grow up on these movies," I did watch them as a kid (20, now), and I didn't find any of the lines in them as terribly delivered as I did in some of these.

The "noooo" that everyone keeps mentioning: awful.  That scene WAS supposed to show how Vader lost his last shred of humanity, and instead it looked like they paid a guy working at a gas station to read a line for the first time, and then "CUT! Let's hit the titty bar."
That entire scene kept the movie from invoking the same fear that the original Darth Vader brought forth.

Despite it all, I still have to say this movie was fucking fantastic.  I loved watching Palpatine evolve into the evil tyrant - for a better effect, note his behavior in all three.  It's almost seamless.  Favorite character in this one.
Anakin wasn't nearly as whiny in this movie - he came across almost as one would expect him to, someone who, unaware of the responsibility of the power he has, feels that he has been cheated and misunderstood.  Arrogant and proud.  And the whole "I've got the high ground" thing?  Oh well.  Look at the bigger picture, it was an attempt to talk Anakin down from doing something he knows will get himself killed - or goad him into it, but the result was all the same 

Speaking of that scene, there was a fetish for dismemberment.  I guess lightsabers cauterize the wounds, otherwise this would look more like a Tarantino flick ("Oh no, I cut myself shaving!" <two gallons of blood spurt from character's neck>).

Kenobi surprised the hell out of me.  I never really liked him in the first two.
Phantom Menace - he seemed more of a shadow, an obedient child.  This is probably how apprentices are supposed to behave, but his character had no substance.  There wasn't even a feeling of esteem or awe, like "this is a Jedi Knight, show some respect."  None of that.
Episode 2 - Kinda weak, snobbish, condescending.  Again, nothing really there, never even showed his real skill.
Revenge of the Sith - Killing machine, go-to guy.  "Ben, we need this guy killed."  "I'll be back in an hour."  OK, he got knocked out fighting against Darth Tyranous.  Realize though, that they pulled this guy all the way back from another assignment to go after him, despite having the Jedi Council already on scene. Plus, he managed to eliminate General Grievous and escape a battalion of Clone Troopers out for his blood, all in the same day.  Like I said, their Number One Hit Man.

Final thoughts: Mace Windu got taken out like a chump.  Not really Lucas's fault, but it's still quite a shame.

[Dozer]

I must admit I haven't seen it yet, but whatever you say, the answer is: Sith happens.

 

[Godder]

Somewhere in there, it has to be impressed on the viewer that Vader isn't fully lost to the Dark Side yet, and that the reason he went there in the first place (Padme) is still in living memory as the reason he went there. Once he discovers that he is now in full body armour (annoyingly crafted for Christiansen, after he whined to Lucas about being Vader, rather than the original actor and body suit), and then that he killed Padme, the one he did everything for, he's obviously going to lose it (it being his mind, initially, and then all mercy and goodness once he gets what's left of his mind back). Also, bear in mind there's 20+ years between Ep3 and Ep4, so it's not as if he has to go from Anakin Skywalker, chosen one(TM), to Darth Vader, merciless killing machine(TM) in 30 seconds.

Anyway, if we don't like the dialogue in that last scene, how can we improve on it?

[Pizzatog]

I loved it.... my number one piece of bad dialogue is the kenobi "Democracy" bit....

You know, people should not let George Lucas direct the movies he creates! He has incredible ideas, but a knack for cheesing them up, and getting bad acting from his actors. Remember ESB wasnt directed by him.

[Whatever Works]

I really hope that a persons age doesnt affect there ability to decipher what movies are good and which are bad. I dont care what generation a person grows up in, but they must have enough common sense to understand that the acting in the original 3 movies (I.E. older movies) was not amazing, but was still much better and more realistic then the newer movies (probably because they could get into roles easier because there was no blue screne). It doesnt take a genious to realize that the best of the 6 is probably in the minds of most "The Empire Strikes back", and "A new hope" a close 2nd because its just such an incredibly classic and if it wasnt so great then the sequals never would have been made. Return of the Jedi was also great and alot of people dont appreciate Jabba the Hut for the ingenious character he is (though when they redid him for movie remakes it was terrible). Hopfully kids will come to realize that the phantom menace and clone wars were horrible, and that the new sith 1 can be ranked up there with the originals though I find the new movie to be closer to lord of the rings then the original star wars.

Overall, with the graphics I often felt that less was much much more.

[nataz]

just saw this last night,

I loved the movie, as long as no one was talking. The back and forth between anikin and obi-wan were okay, as were most of the general dialogue, but the dramatic scenes on the whole I thought were pretty bad/cheesy.

My least favorite line in the entire movie was the whole padime asking anni to hold her like they did at the lake, and there was only love. It felt wooden, stiff, blah.

I gotta say though, I thought the emperor's lines were on the whole pretty hot. 

[VonDouche]

I went with a group of my friends to see it again on Saturday morning, and it reminded me of Yoda's worst line in this movie.  "Not if anything to say about it I have!" 

Huh?

Just sort of makes me angrier about his backward talking in the prequels.

As for that question about the original trilogy, I'm only 18 right now, but grew up loving the originals.  I read most of those books that were published under the Star Wars license (Tim Zahn's Thrawn trilogy is still the best imo), and much of what was changed through the prequel trilogy made me sad.  I almost kicked the television when i got a chance to look at the ending to the original trilogy DVD release (Hayden Christiansen digitally replaced the old Vader actor at the end of ROTJ).  There were just so many good casting choices in the originals that I think they are still so much better than the prequel trilogy.  Revenge of the Sith was an exception to this as I think it may have been better than ROTJ imo.

[jpmeyer]

I couldn't stand Padme's lines and I couldn't stand Annakin's lines when he was with Padme.  That said, there were lots of great lines in the spirit of "But I wanted to go to Toshi Station and pick up some power converters!", "She'll make point five past lightspeed" and "Sheis the ship that made the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs."  I'm talking about you, "None of the younglings survived".