40 midgets VS a lion

[Bram]

Oh man, a midget zamboni driver. We should totally make a movie about this. It'd be like Battle Royale, only much, much cooler.

[Saucemaster]

We should totally make a movie about this. It'd be like Battle Royale, only much, much cooler.

If only we knew someone who was making a film!

[Matt]

Enter THE LION.

They completely panic, most of them forgetting their own name (much less any plan they might have had), and the lion kills the first ten or so--mostly the weakest and slowest, but also just those that were closest to him when he entered.  Depending on how large the room is, at least one midget probably gets trampled to death, too.  Now of the remaining thirty, let's be generous and figure that 2/3 of them actually somewhat recover from the shock as the adrenaline kicks in.  We've got twenty midgets who realize they have to do something, and quick.  However, there is no plan--there's probably two or three different plans that all sounded good in the five minutes before this horror was unleashed, so as people tend to do in stressful situations, they all start to break into smaller groups that act independently of each other.  Let's round up and say that's three groups of seven people--or 7, 7, 6 if you want to stick with the exact twenty--who are under attack now.  THE LION, by the way, is not wasting his time eating.  He's not going to eat if he's not hungry, and remember, he fights for a living.  He's well-acquainted with the concept of "I'ma kill this mothafucka even if I ain't hungry".  He's also used to dealing with predators in groups--cf. Hyena, The.  Maybe two of the three midget groups survive the second phase, but by now the lion has a few minor wounds and is enraged.  Now we're basically down to fourteen midgets trying to work in concert vs. a full grown, enraged male lion with a few minor wounds.  Their plan is still haphazard and formed on the fly, and they're going to be tripping over the eviscerated bodies of their buddies and slipping on all the blood in the meantime.  Do any of you realistically think The Fourteen stand a chance here?  Please.

I somehow doubt the lion would keep killing for no reason. If they're shrieking in panic as opposed to attacking he's not going to consider them threats, and he's not going to kill anymore past what he needs to satisfy his current hunger level. He'll down like 2-4 and then dig in while saving the rest for later. That gives them time - a lot of time - to formulate a plan.

As klown said, it's a LION, not a tank. Ask anyone who knows about lions what's the first thing they think of when you mention lion, and the word that will first pop into their heads is "lazy." A male lion sleeps 20 hours a day, does that sound like a killing machine that's gonna mow down ten people without stopping? Hell no, that's Paco The Teamster Lion, who enjoys his siesta and doesn't ever do things fast when there's a slower way.

I'm not convinced one way or the other re: the fate of the lollipop guild, but it sure as hell ain't going down the way you describe.

[Dozer]

I somehow doubt the lion would keep killing for no reason. If they're shrieking in panic as opposed to attacking he's not going to consider them threats, and he's not going to kill anymore past what he needs to satisfy his current hunger level. He'll down like 2-4 and then dig in while saving the rest for later.

If you were THE LION, and you had 30 panicking midgets (the rest is dead or rigid with fear, hiding behind their imaginary friends) right in front of you, you'd not go "ah, those aren't threats, I'll lay dow for a nap right here". No, you think one of the following:
a) "Dis is my friggin' grounds, so piss off, or I'll make ya";
b) "Yo, midgets, you won't be sticking boners into my lioness" (after all, midgets *are* sex-hungry maniacs)
c) "Running object = bring it down"

Any of those plus some random wounds you get will transform you, i.e. THE LION, into a frenzied 500 lbs animal with lots of sharp teeth and super-human (super-midget) strength. And after the first two waves of midget attack are exhausted, you'll have a little time for a snack, which -- conveniently! -- will already be strewn around you. The midgets don't have that. And consider: Any necrophiliac midgets will already be distracted.

The primal instinct of THE LION is survival. The primal instinct of the midget is hiding in a flowerpot. LION wins.

[Machinus]

c) "Running object = bring it down"

The primal instinct of THE LION is survival. The primal instinct of the midget is hiding in a flowerpot. LION wins.

This is the heart of the argument.

[Saucemaster]

I somehow doubt the lion would keep killing for no reason. If they're shrieking in panic as opposed to attacking he's not going to consider them threats, and he's not going to kill anymore past what he needs to satisfy his current hunger level. He'll down like 2-4 and then dig in while saving the rest for later. That gives them time - a lot of time - to formulate a plan.

That's the thing, though, the lion's not killing because it's hungry.  Male lions actually typically don't kill their own food once they have a pride--the lionesses do the hunting and they take the first bites of the kill, because they're motherfucking pimps.  Seriously, a male lion exists for basically one purpose: to protect his shit--i.e., the rest of the pride--from predators.  Given that they're, well, lions, those predators basically consist of... other male lions, trying to get their own shit.  Plus the occasional hyenas going after the cubs.  THE LION's whole purpose in life is to kill anything that seems threatening.  And remember, we've stipulated that he's already highly agitated.  This is a pissed-off killing machine.

Anyway, of course he's a Teamster.  So who wins in a fight: 1) a 500 lb. Teamster who spends all his non-sleeping time fighting and screwing, who's pound for pound stronger than any human being on the planet, armed with four clawed limbs, massive canines, and a jaw capable of crushing bone with ease, or 2) 40 people of very short stature with no training, scared shitless and given nothing but five minutes to plan?

Teamster, baby.  Teamster.

Put it another way:

Exhibit A:





Exhibit B:





Look, there's sixteen of your forty in that second picture right there, seventeen if you count the person hiding in the back left.  I have nothing against them, they look like decent people.  But let's not kid ourselves.  They are going to die.

[Bram]

Gangsta midgets will save the day.

Also, dude - midget is not the preferred nomenclature. Little person, please.

Some lion facts:

The lionesses, despite modest size, do the bulk of the hunting and killing. (...) The male lion gets his share of all kills by his pride. Lionesses 'own' their hunting grounds.

He lets his bitches do his hunting, killing only to defend his pride. It would seem to me that the pride is in no danger here, so he'd only be mildly aggrivated.

Most prey animals remain calm if they spot a lion; the lion lacks the stamina for a sustained chase

He'll be sleeping before he killed anywhere near 40 little people.

[Limbo]

Most prey animals remain calm if they spot a lion; the lion lacks the stamina for a sustained chase

He'll be sleeping before he killed anywhere near 40 little people.

Did You Know:
The Thomson’s gazelle can sprint at speeds of up to 50 miles an hour. It can also maintain speed at over 35 miles an hour for about 15 minutes.

For comparison, the world record on the 100 meter dash is 9.77s for the fastest friggin' human on the planet, which is an average of 25 miles an hour for only 10 seconds

According to this a fast little person (red: midget) can run the 100 meter dash 13.72s, which is about 16 miles an hour for about 14 seconds.

These little persons (red: midgets) neither have the speed nor the stamina of regular prey animals there in the savannah. The lion won't need to run, he only needs to walk over and kill them. Nuff said.

[Matt]

THE LION's whole purpose in life is to kill anything that seems threatening.

Except that the lion WON'T just go about killing them. Sure, you would, because you're smart like that and know the rules of the game. The lion does not. All he knows is that a) he's not in his territory (for that matter he is in a place which is wholly unlike any territory he has ever known), and there's a bunch of small, weak creatures running away form him.

You just made my point for me. Look at these guys:

Do they LOOK threatening to you? Now imagine how unthreatening they look to a "500 lb. killing machine."

Real animals are not Viking berserkers. They don't go about kilingl just anything in their way. This lion will maybe kill a couple if it's hungry, it might rough another one up if it's curious, otherwise it will probably just ignore the lot of them until they start attacking. The lion gives them tons and tons of time to formulate a plan, with little or no losses in the meantime.

Have you ever seen a lion hunt, anyway? A predator animal doesn't hunt the way humans hunt. When a human goes hunting, he wades into the gazelle (or whatever) and just starts killing, trying to get as many as he possibly can, either for trophies or to bring back to the village. That is NOT how lions work. A lion (especially a solitary one with no cubs to provide for, like this one) will just kill what it needs at the moment.

The only way the lion will attack more than two right at the start is if it's feeling threatened by the midgets, and if they're running away screaming - as you yourself claim - then that isn't going to happen.

Limbo is half right. The midgets aren't going to remain calm. But that doesn't mean that the lion is going to wade into them and start hacking off limbs like Jason Voorhees.

[Saucemaster]

I think what this calls for is an elaboration of the "highly agitated" clause.  If the lion is vaguely annoyed and pissed off, yes, fleeing midgets constitute little threat (though I've grown up with cats all my life--tame ones, even--and small things running away are pretty much always going to get attacked.  I realize this means one or two of them, and not the bulk of them.)

I have been interpreting "highly agitated" to basically mean what zoologists refer to, in technical terms, as super fucking pissed.  A wild animal, especially one whose entire purpose in life is to fight, who's truly super fucking pissed and thrown into a room surrounded by little screaming running things does not just look at them quizzically and say "Aha!  Obviously I have been overreacting.  Perhaps someone could get me a nice frappucino and a biscotti, and I can enjoy my apparent incarceration with these cute little morsels."  No way!  He's super fucking pissed.  I don't think any less than 7 midgets end up with serious or fatal wounds, right off the bat.  Any of kl0wn's super-hero porn-star wrestling midgets who decide to try to stand their ground in the opening round DO constitute a threat, and are dealt with summarily.  My contention is that to a super fucking pissed THE LION, the situation is itself threatening enough to trigger the "fight or flight" reaction.  Flight is impossible, and he's born to fight.

Another point: people seem to think that THE LION will be "hunting" these midgets.  Excuse me, Bram, "little people".  This is a misunderstanding of lion behavior.  You hunt when you go for food.  Fighting is an altogether different activity.  Have you seen footage of two male lions attacking each other?  They don't try to stalk each other and sneak away and then maybe grab a quick snack and a nap.  They go straight at it.  THE LION isn't hunting little people for food, he's fighting them because he's super fucking pissed, and later, after they've collectively wiped themselves and maybe half-assedly formulated a plan, because they're a direct threat.

[Machinus]

I have been interpreting "highly agitated" to basically mean what zoologists refer to, in technical terms, as super fucking pissed.  A wild animal, especially one whose entire purpose in life is to fight, who's truly super fucking pissed and thrown into a room surrounded by little screaming running things does not just look at them quizzically and say "Aha!  Obviously I have been overreacting.  Perhaps someone could get me a nice frappucino and a biscotti, and I can enjoy my apparent incarceration with these cute little morsels."  No way!  He's super fucking pissed.  I don't think any less than 7 midgets end up with serious or fatal wounds, right off the bat.  Any of kl0wn's super-hero porn-star wrestling midgets who decide to try to stand their ground in the opening round DO constitute a threat, and are dealt with summarily.  My contention is that to a super fucking pissed THE LION, the situation is itself threatening enough to trigger the "fight or flight" reaction.  Flight is impossible, and he's born to fight.

Hunting lions in africa is very dangerous. From the Lion's perspective, even though you are in a Jeep, hundreds of yards away from the Lion, you are a noisy, moving object that is of significant size and won't give it as much space as it wants. Lions will run up to hunters and push them over and maul them. Lions get super fucking pissed when they see a small shitty car crusing in the savannah. In a room full of attack formation midgets, the only possible outcome for the lion is to eliminate them all as fast as possible so he can calm the fuck down.

[Matt]

Stunning evidence that the pro-lion forces are not nearly as savage as they think they are! News at 11!

[Jacob Orlove]

Lions become man-eaters less often than tigers, but when they do they are bolder and more aggressive in their persuit of humans. A man-eating lion often hunts at night and prowls the perimeter of villages looking for victims. One lion in Uganda killed 84 people before it was killed in the early 1920's.

[Saucemaster]

On a TOTALLY off-topic note from that link:

Kidnapping young girls has long been part of the marriage custom in Ethiopia. The United Nations estimates that more than 70 percent of marriages in Ethiopia are by abduction, practiced in rural areas where most of the country's 71 million people live.

Weasel.
Ticonderoga.
Ferret.

Why had I never heard that before?  As if there wasn't enough wrong in Ethiopia already.  Christ.

Anyway, all that proves is that lions, while mean motherfuckers, are capable of acts of self-sacrifice and heroism.  That just makes them MORE badass.  You didn't think less of The Terminator in T2 just because he was fighting to save John Connor, did you?

[Machinus]

A young girl whimpering could be mistaken for the mewing sound from a lion cub, which in turn could explain why they didn't eat her," Williams said.

The only way for the midgets to stay alive is for them to start crying immediately and calm the lion down. Then they can climb out the window and go get shotguns.

[Dozer]

"Everyone thinks this is some kind of miracle, because normally the lions would attack people," Wondimu said.

Quoted for truthery. Considering that midgets are peolpe, if only "little people" according to Bram, this seals the deal in favour of THE LION.

[Klep]

You didn't think less of The Terminator in T2 just because he was fighting to save John Connor, did you?

Of course I do.  Clearly he was too weak to overcome his programming and do what needed to be done to destroy all humans and pave the way for a robotic utopia.  I mean come on. 

[Limbo]

A little thread necromancy, but this article in the news astounded me yesterday, and kind of tips the scale in favour of the midgets I think.

[Anusien]

As his two companions screamed for help, the huge cat left its struggling prey on the ground and sank its teeth into the thigh of one of the other men before charging back into the forest.

The newspaper said villagers were on the hunt for the lion.

So the thre fully-grown, strong, in their prime men were gravely wounded by the lion who got, what, smacked on the nose?  You notice the one guy is in the hospital, and the lion is back with his pride and lionnesses going, "I let that sucker off easily."

[Limbo]

As I read it, the lion attacked a 50-year old dude, and he didn't kill him instantly. So in the case of 42 midgets, there might be something the midgets could do...

[Dozer]

As I read it, the lion attacked a 50-year old dude, and he didn't kill him instantly. So in the case of 42 midgets, there might be something the midgets could do...

... yeah, run and die.
Remember, the Lion has got nowhere to slink off to like in that story! That lion was neither particularly hungry nor was it super fucking pissed.

[Bram]

And you know this because you interviewed it afterwards?

[Dozer]

I know this because I am in astral contact with every Lion in this world. I feel what they feel, I hear what they hear, I bite whom they bite. I prey when they kill, I hurt when they die. I am the Lion. The Lion is me. My women hunt my food for me. I wasn't super fucking pissed when this happened. So, neither was the Lion.

I also know this because it is true. If the lion had been super fucking pissed, it wouldn't have trolled off like that. QED.

[Magi]

OMG The Midgets are ONE vote away from a tie with the lion. This is the closest they have ever come to overtaking the lion (the poll started off at like 10-1 in favor of the Lion).

GO MIDGETS!!!!!

[forests failed you]

I am voting for the lion immediately.

[BigMac]

I voted for the Lion for several reasons.

First of all as stated before it is the reason to live for a male lion to protect his pride. When a pride has a war with another pride of with a group of Hyena's the male lions will tip the scale no matter how big the group of hyena's is. The sole purpose of a male lion is to fight and to mate. I have no idea how many midgets it would take to take down a hyena. But let us say 4 midgets are needed to take down a fully grown hyena. So 10 hyena's are the same as 40 midgets. I know for a fact that 10 hyena's wouldn't stand a chance against 1 fully grown male lion. So that leaves you to think about the forty midgets a little.

A male lion a a mean fighting machine. It's manes provide a protection at their most vulnerable spot, the neck. The second most vulnerable spot is behind its hind legs. If you have ever seen how a feline can bend its back you will know it is pretty hard to get there without the lion having turned in the air.

Beside the teeth a lion has formidable claws, as well on it's front as behind paws. So it is able to claw with four legs.

As for the 2 stories described above here. The one about the little girl just proves miracles exist and lions have good knowledge of who to punish and who to protect. The second story tells us that the man had been helped by 2 members of his family and that other people of the village were on their way to help. It does not say what kind of weaponry those family members had or the villagers for that matter. The midgets have no weaponry whatsoever.

The best and probably only chance i think the midgets would have is their brain to come up with a good plan. The best plan i can think of when outnumbering the lion still is divide in 3 groups. The 2 flanking groups have to run head down and hope that the impact would break some ribs. The only weapon i can think of other than the hard heads are their teeth. So as soon as they are close enough to grab some of the manes they have to start chewing. But then they still would be very vulnerable to claw attacks.

Bottom line, i think the midgets could hurt the lion somewhat but would never be coordinated enough to inflict lethal damage to the beast before enough of them are down with wounds so that the rest are to little a force.

The only way i can see the midgets win is when one or more could hit the eyes of the lion by chance. So only with luck they could win, in the end the match up is favourable to the lion and i would always choose to play the lion in a tournament. Or wait, this wasn't about a deck.

[Bram]

At this point, I'm seriously considering giving random people I know accounts to let them vote for the midgets.

[Dozer]

Ok, the debate is settled:

The Lion wins 46,700,000 to 680,000. Sorry, Bram but your teensy midgets are BUSTED!

[Bram]

Hogwash, boy. I done saw me a lion not two days before t'day, and I wasn't duly impressed.

[dandan]

I used to be called Lyons. That's right Daniel Lyons. Still I knew a Dane De Lyon so it could have been worse (hell, I knew a Richard Head, Wayne King, Dick Hunter)

I think the midgets might get a draw using the same method the alligator used against the python.