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Author Topic: vintage White Weenie  (Read 13713 times)
jackpot
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« on: July 17, 2005, 09:22:43 pm »

Hello to everyone! My favorite deck type is White Weenie. It may not be the most powerful color, but I enjoy it. OK gang, I've played this deck before in Type 1 events and done well. Almost top 8. Here is the decklist.

4 land tax
4 swords to plowshares
4 empirial plate
3 steelshaper's gift
1 enlightended tutor
1 umezawa's jitte
4 Savannah lions
4 mother of runes
4 soltari monk
4 soltari priest
4 exalted angel
4 armageddon
20 plains

sb:
3 disenchant
4 serenity
4 master apothecary
4 true believer

Very different, right? The basic premise is attack with guys that are evasive and huge thanks to empyrial plate+land tax. Turn three 8/7 kitties are common and hilareous! Then Armageddon to seal the deal. I feel that more removal may be needed. Specifically against a welder. Maindeck disenchant over armageddons? Oh, I don't know... Jitte is great with the shadow guys, angel, and pro color attacking dudes in general. I may want to include a sword of fire and ice for good measure. Maybe in the side board. more utility equipment to tutor for. Maybe a Lightnig Greaves. The true believer may be better served in the maindeck, but I'm not sure. The master apothecarys are against any super aggro decks like mono R or B. With all the clerics, why not make them more useful? OK OK yes I know Aether Vial is nuts, but how to squeeze it in? Getting Empyrial plate out and bashing for a ton I feel is more called for than making my guys uncounterable. More aggressive. Besides, blocking sundering titan and killing it with a mother of runes rules!  Last year, I played reprisal in the SB and it was great. The Believers are there against combo basically. Samurrai of the pale curtain would be a good move. The true believes and pale curtain guys have no evasion however, so I'd prefer to leave them to the sideboard. Beloved chaplain also crossed my mind. Pro creatures is good, right? Alright, so what do you think? Oh, and I'm on a no-power-budget BTW. Thank you.
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silvernail
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« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2005, 09:32:28 pm »

The issue you have with white weenie, or any other pure beatdown strategy in type 1 right now, is that everyone is trying to bascially do broken things as fast as possible and that means slowly casting creatures that take a full turn to even attack once and only having one land a turn makes you unable to keep tempo with the best decks.

 If you cant speed yourself up the other option you have is slowing your opponent down. Look into that idea and see what you come up with and post back Smile
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« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2005, 11:32:47 pm »

true believer is GOOD right now.
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LotusHead
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2005, 12:21:35 am »

If you want more removal, especially against Welders, then Icatian Javelineers might do the trick.  They ping things once...like Welders.

Just beware that everyone and their mothers are playing Chalice right now, and Chalice for 1 or 2 will hurt, and it will come up.

Lastly, 20 plains? You can find some fun effective budget lands that do more than just tap for white mana.  Karakas is fun, Mishra's Factories are fun, and Wastelands are fun (even if you play with Armageddons).

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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2005, 03:12:36 am »

Moved to Newbie. "Almost T8" is not good enough for Open (and neither is your card discussion).
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DeMarki
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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2005, 06:22:05 am »

Bram is cool

Bram is hard

Bram is the Master

Bram is the Lord of Russia

Bram is God

Bram is matriouska's favorite grandchild

Bram thinks that a deck that missed T8 is a newbie deck

Well done Bram


What are you, twelve? Unproven, unpowered decks with virtually no card explanation go in the newbie forum. It's policy over here. I don't make the rules, I implement them. Also, I'm pretty sure Jackpot can stand up for himself and take the matter up with me over PM if he feels the need to. You've just earned yourself a verbal warning for spam. It's a shame because you're usually a decent poster. I expected better from you. - Bram
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Engine_number_9
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« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2005, 10:00:30 am »

I think that if you want White Weenie to be good you have to take it in an other direction. Evasion in vintage is bad when only a few decks drop creatures that evasion is useful against. Exalted Angel is good if you have a way of casting it faster than turn 4, but you don't have. Even if you manage to cast it then in most cases it won't win you the game. It's not what it was when U/R fish was good. Armageddon was a sign on it: Drain me and lose. Casting it will often lose you the game if it gets drained. Land tax/Empyrial plate is'nt really the bomb. It's two cards that aren't going to go anywhere  on thier own. Run Jitte or Sword of Fire and Ice instead.
I think that if you want to go with White Weenie then you have to play a fish like strategy. Capitalize on tempo and fast effecient disruption. If I where to run White Weenie this is the list I'd run:

Mana: 23
1 Islands
8 Plains     
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
3 Wastelands
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl

Blue stuff: 2
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

Removal: 5
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abolish

The utility artifacts: 8
4 Aether Vial
2 Jitte
4 Chalice

Creatures: 22
4 True Believer
4 Icatian Javelineers
4 Meddling Mage
3 White Knight
1 Isamaru Hound of Konda 
3 Kami of Ancient Law

Here goes some explanation:
Artifacts:
The artifacts have proven themselves well in fish decks. Vial speeds up the kill and makes your creatures uncounterable. Chalice for 0 going first is a really strong play. If you go second or get more than 1 chalice setting it at 1 is a good play with this list. Jitte basicly speeds up your kill and makes a up for some bad aggro match-ups.

Mana:
I've tried to run as many plains as possible to get abolish online by pitch casting it. This is why there is no 4 th wasteland.
The rest is explains it self.

Creatures:
Meddling Mages is the bomb, hands down.
Kami is an anti Oath card and a 2/2 beater. Good against oath bad against every thing else
White Knight is a bad card really. But it has first strike which is very nive against fish. If you don't face fish run Rootwater thief instead.
True Believer good against slaver, gift and combo.
Javelineer anti welder.

Removal
Abolish is never a dead card. At worst it takes out a mox at best it wins you the game.

As sideboard cards I suggest you use a normal fish-like sideboard

 
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BigMac
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2005, 06:02:23 pm »

Weathered wayfarer is a good addition as well as you can easilly find you landdisruption and you need but 1 or 2 lands.

Abollish can be seal of cleansing.

Another card that could be good is Umezawa's Jitte.

Steelshapers gift is to narrow. You could as well play an enlightened tutor to find something although i do not believe you need it.

What you could use are Lightning greaves to protect your key critters while giving them haste. But to many equipments could give you bad hands and bad draws as you will be needing to drop something every turn.

Other good additions are orim's chant and abeyance. Those cards could really give you an edge over combo, probably any deck even.
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jackpot
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2005, 01:22:01 pm »

Thank you all for the feedback! Many intersting ideas to work with. I think I'm going to have to add meddling mages to the deck. They are really a cure all. You can always figure out something to name in T1. Being a W/U creature, this gives me yet another reason to keep land tax in the deck. Plus some flooded strands. The Icatian Javelineers are an amazing idea. They do seem very narrow to me. They would be in there almost solely against welder decks. I'm probably going to have a home for them in the sideboard. Abolish has always been a card that I have wanted to play with. It's totally in the main now. And again, more reason to play Land tax.  I understand that Seal of cleansing is more aggressive and pro-active, but Abolish is FREE! Play a creature AND blow up their oath. Suprise! You're screwed! You just know that's going to happen too... It looks like the Steelshaper's gifts are out for sure. This is understandable. The enlightended too. I really don't need to get a specific equipment/artifact/enchantment  that bad I suppose. Enlightened was restricted for a reason, however. Should I put Armageddons into the sideboard? Armageddon has always been a hot/cold type scenario for me. It will win you the game half of the time. Otherwise it just sits in your hand. I'm leaning more towards chalice or Aether vial. I'm still finding chalice hard to justify with all the 1-2 drops that are in this deck. Isn't that <ahem>counter-productive? So if I were to assemble this today:

4 Land tax -get tundra/plains/island
4 Abolish -destroy their goodies for free
4 Swords to plowshares -goodbye Akroma,welder,colossus,etc.
4 Savannah lions -speedy kill
4 True believer -you can't touch this...
4 Soltari Priest -can't block him or burn him
4 Exalted angel -I can't cut this card, come on!
4 Meddling mage - the answer man
1 Sword of fire and ice - Die welder!
1 umezawa's jitte - Die welder!
2 Empyrial plate -fatties to victory
4 Mox diamond - This strikes me as a good idea. Works well w/ land tax and can get out creatures faster. Doesn't work well w/ abolish. Oh well...
4 Tundra
4 flooded strand
12 plains
1 Island -even though I think this is a really bad idea...

Yes, I know I'm not including Strip Mine or Wasteland. With all the double WW casting costs, the mana really sould give me white. I'm hesitant to even include a real island.

The empyrial plate should probably be more copies of Sword of fire and ice, but speeding up the kill strikes me as a good idea.

The idea of Tradewind rider has crossed my mind. That would be a great little suprise. That would work well w/ the Icatian Javelinners! Slow, but effective. Also meddling mages if something else must be named. Tradewinds or armageddon? Suggestions? Thanks again!
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BigMac
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2005, 01:31:31 pm »

to get around castingcosts you can play aether vile. This way you can play critters and search for waste effects rendering your opponent stagnant for a bit, which can lead to victory. the wayfarer with aethervile is great. Seen it at work and it totally crushed me when it got to good use.

Have fun and good luck
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warble
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« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2005, 01:47:59 pm »

4 land tax -- and 0 scroll rack?  You've GOT to be kidding me.  Either
-4 land tax
or
+3 scroll rack -3 steelshaper's gift

4 mother of runes
Unnecessary, what IS necessary is 4 flickering ward.
Mother of runes vs flickering ward.  One can beat down for a whopping 1 a turn IF your opponent doesn't have a blocker.  And do funny tricks.  The other just wins the game for you.  Play the ward.

4 soltari monk
4 soltari priest
Too many.  Even with a plate, you'll find one in your opening hand with 5 or 6 of them decked.  To draw out opposing creature control the lions and mages should be more then enough.

0 balance
I believe the 0 says it all.  WTF.

I notice you have altered to include mage and blue.  We know what blue/white fish looks like, it has null rod or the full blue complement (or both, there are oo variations).  I doubt white "transitioning" to blue/white has ever been contemplated.  It's blue splashing white.  Always has been, always will be.
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Rancor1
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« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2005, 03:18:00 pm »

First off, Mox Diamond is restricted. For acceleration, I'd play Aether Vials. They act like moxes, dropping threats while you equip Jittes, etc.

Secondly, I would consider a number Samurai of the Pale Curtain. It is great against Dragon, and decent against everything else, including fish, as it is sizable by fish standards (not WTF, of course.)

I would also cut Plate for 2 more Jittes. Each hit with Jitte effectively puts them on a 1-turn faster clock. I could see Plate underperforming in the mid/late game, if your opponent hangs on for long enough.

And yes, I'd definitely play Balance.
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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2005, 07:51:19 pm »

It seems like Orim's Chant would fit into this deck. It would be useful to force through Geddons, Swords, and Mages in a control heavy enviroment. And it punks combo.

Balance is mandatory, as is Scroll Rack if you're running the Tax/ Rack draw engine (some good! Very Happy).

I think you may have to cut the creature base to about 16-18 dudes, although you'll have to decide who gets the axe. -1 Lions and -1 Believer maybe?

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jackpot
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« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2005, 08:10:14 pm »

I'm pretty sure that I'll be having the most number of creatures in play and going Balance would be silly. I had one in the dack last summer and it just sat in my hand all day. Aether vial does strike me as something I shouldn't be avoiding. Scroll rack+flooded strands+Land Tax seems like a good idea.Its a good thing I didn't pick up those Mox diamonds today! I totally didn't hink they were restricted! They seem bablanced to me. They didn't have Icatian Javenineers either for some odd reason. No Tundras I can understand, but no Icatian Javelineers? Samurai of the Pale curtain is a guy that should find a home in here too. Orim's chant is very situational and defensive. I'd rather just destroy their stuff outright than put them back a turn. Good idea, however. Disruption is great, but I just see it sitting in my hand. Alright new list:

4 Land tax
4 Scroll rack
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to plowshares
4 Abolish
4 Savanah Lions
4 Meddling Mage
4 True Believer
4 Samurai of the pale curtain-if I can find them!
4 Exalted Angel
4 Tundra-if I can get them
4 Flooded strand
1 Island
11 Plains

SB
4 Armageddon-sorry Keeper, you have no lands
4 Serenity-...or artifacts and enchantments
4 Tradewind Rider-...and your guy is bounced. This guy is never bad. Bouncing serenity should be fun too! Serenity on the stack? possily better than the Angel. Did I just write that?
3 empyrial plate-come on. I had to. A litte aggro in the board isn't a bad thing. It makes sense to me.


I feel that the Samurai's are better against the field than the Shadow guys. The swords of Fire and Ice are better disruption it appears. And aggressive. Not being able to bounce/burn a true believer or meddling mage is a major concern for combo too. I also don't have a lot of three drops, so it fits in nicely. I think I may add some plains. 11 plains and 4 Tundras(that aren't going to stick around long)is very stingy. This is getting better. Oh, and I'll be sure to proxy Mox Pearl, Walk, Ancestral, and Lotus when I can. THAT would be a shame otherwise. OK guys take it from there.
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Xyre
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2005, 08:29:58 pm »

Keeper? Shadow? What is this-last century?! White Weenie's time has come.
But I digress. If you must play the deck, Armageddon's and Empyrial Plate's don't work well out of the sideboard in the current T1. You probably want additional anti-combo elements, as well as more anti-artifact (perhaps Null Rod or Chalice of the Void).
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jackpot
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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2005, 10:39:59 pm »

Two words then: Winter orb. That should screw w combo, control, and most decks in general. I think Winter Orb is just what this deck needs. Cheap mana denial. I like this idea more than Null Rod shutting off my artifacts as well.

SB
4 Winter orb
4 tradewind rider
4 Serenity
3 Kami of ancient law- anit-oath. 


Nice wrok guys, keep it coming
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BigMac
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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2005, 12:11:38 pm »

A good combo player will only be needing 1 mana every turn. (duress, brainstorm or ancestral) So winter orb is not particularly effective against combo, more so against control and i think you allready have a good matchup against that.

You should look at the following 2 cards as they form a nice combo with eachother.

Leonin Shikari and skullclamp.

Shikari is a 2/2 for 2 mana while it gives you the opportunity to move around your equipments. With a fast moving skullclamp you can draw cards off dying critters getting them to draw you cards.

I am very unsure what you need land tax for. Weathered wayfarer does almost the same but it fetches waste effects as well as coloured lands giving you an advantage in landdrops as well as wasteeffects while your aether vile is dropping threats.

Next to that there must be something better than the Savannah lions. (Isamaru, Hound of Konda for example, 2 at the most though)
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« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2005, 12:39:24 pm »

I’m not sure how your tournaments are run but aren’t you allowed some proxies?  I think you should add some Moxen, a Lotus and a sol Ring.  You can afford to take out a few basic Plains to make the room.

Also for your sideboard I highly recommend Rule of Law.   {2} {W} and all combo decks need to find an answer before they can go off.

Good luck with the deck.  I know I wouldn’t play white weenie but it’s your right to build and play whatever you want.  The openness of the game was what got me into magic in the first place.
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« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2005, 01:15:37 pm »

How about something like this.  Pithing Needle gives the deck tech against belcher, dragon, and other stuff.

4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Whip Corder
4 True Believer
4 Icatian Javlieeners
4 Savannah Lions
4 Preacher
4 Pithing Needle
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Land Tax
4 Scroll Rack
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
4 Remote Farm
12 Plains

SB

4 Aether Vial-vs control
4 Serenity
4 Seal of Cleansing
3 Meta Choice


the remote farms give the deck a little more oumph and since they are temporay they have good synergy with land tax.
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« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2005, 04:07:09 pm »

The land tax scroll rack combo is really bad. It takes up 8 spaces in your build. Neither land tax nor scroll rack are very good on their own. If you think playing a draw engine that is unreliable (needs two pieces to work) and easily disruptable in an aggro deck that doesn't need much card draw then I think that you are making sub-optimal list. Speed is the issue here, not drawing 3 cards a turn from turn 3 and after. If you get land tax scroll rack on-line and manage to keep an early threat in play I bet you'd have won anyway.
Land tax + Scroll rack is bad. Play Skull Clamp, Standstill or even Ninjas or mask of memory instead   
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jackpot
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2005, 12:16:45 pm »

Land tax is great by itself. Scrollrack isn't, I'll admit that, but still works. Land tax will work well with the Abolish in the decklist besides Scroll rack. Scroll rack and shuffle effects like the flooded strands is great. If anything, I'd like more tutoring/shuffling to abuse Scroll rack some more. Like an Enlightened tutor. This could grab the serenity froom the board more effectively. And help get Tax/Rack online. more than likely, get Jitte or Sword of fire and ice. It's restricted for a reason, right? It also ensures mana for an Exalted angel. I'm pretty sure that Sword of fire and ice is better than Skullclamp in this deck. I reall  want to squeeze in Aether Vile in the main. But where? It's sad, but I may be having to proxy Meddling mage. These stores around here aren't very stocked w/ older cards! Sad
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2005, 03:16:53 pm »

A singular Enlightened Tutor isn't good at all.  Enlightened Tutor is unrestricted in 1.5 and it's in WW there, too.
Also, if you're going to use Exalted Angel and equipment cards there's no reason not to run Ancient Tomb.  Unmorphing Exalted on the second turn is good.  Playing SoFI/Jitte a turn early is also very good.
You should take a look at the Angel Stompy builds in Legacy.  Those are, as far as I'm aware, the most successful version of White Weenie.  From there you can make changes as necessary - ie don't run multiple Chrome Moxen - and decide if you need a splash or not.
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jackpot
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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2005, 03:55:24 pm »

These are good ideas. The only thing I'm hesitant about it having an ancient Tomb in play and a handful of WW guys I can't cast, and no Angel or equipment in play. Not good. My guess is that the between the Abolish, Swords TP, Mages, Samurais, and Believers, the disruption there should allow time for an Angel. Yes, I'm going to add Moxes/Lotus when I can. i also don't know what you mean when you say Legacy. Like Urzar's Legacy? Or is this something different?
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2005, 06:49:29 pm »

I've never had any problems with Tombs not letting me cast creatures with WW in the corner.  If anything I have issues if I don't draw the damn Tomb; swinging with Isamaru on turn 2 with an equipped Mask of Memory is so good (doing the same with Soltari Priest is better still but if you're unpowered that's a little bit tough :/)
Oh and Legacy = Type 1.5.
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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2005, 07:25:38 pm »

First off:
4 Land tax -get tundra/plains/island
Since when can Tax go and get Tundra?  People, you need to learn how to read the cards.

Second, this is NOT a control deck, it doesn't need the scroll/tax combo, in fact, for the most part it doesn't need draw at all.  I think the original reason why Jackpot put them in was fuel for the plates and a means of thinning out the deck to a point that all you ever draw is non-land threats.  On the same topic, once again, this is not a control deck, playing balance would be so stupid.  You might be able to take a couple land off them, but you all ready have Armageddon for that.

Third, though adding blue may make the deck better, it just turns it into W/U fish, thus it isn't WW anymore.

I think that Abolish is a great addition ass long as you keep the Land Tax's.  And though you may like the Armageddons is the MD, they are overcosted for a WW(even if you do have Land Tax), because, you can just as easily seal the game with a well played Winter Orb. 4 Kami of Ancient Law in the MD is a great idea, there are allways people playing Oath, and who knows what other enchantments can come down.

I'm not sure if Aether Vial is good enough to put in the MD, but it will definitely be great vs. control post-board.  The problem with putting it into the MD, is that it simply isn't a threat, and mid-late game, you don't want to draw them against most decks.

So before trashing/admiring more of the suggested card choices, I'll just suggest a deck:

Creatures:20
3x Savannah Lions
1x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4x Ication Javlieeners(welders)
4x True Believer
4x Kami of Ancient Law
3x Silver Knight(usually there are a few goblin decks, I don't know about your meta)

Removal:8
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Abolish

Draw(per-say):6
4x Land Tax
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Steelshaper's Gift

Lock:3
3x Winter Orb

Pump:4
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Empiral Plate

Mana Base:20
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Diamond
1x Lotus Petal
16x Plains

SB:15
4x Abeyance
4x Aether Vial
3x Maze of Ith
4x Tormod's Crypt

This is my deck suggestion, I hope my tips have been helpful.
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jackpot
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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2005, 09:37:45 pm »

I can't believe that Land tax doesn't get non-basics! I should probably read the cards some more! lol. Good save! Thank you! This is very alarming to me. I've got 4 Flooded strands, will have 4 Tundra, a Lotus, and 1 Island for Blue sources? Yikes! That's very skimpy. You are right, the original idea behing Land tax was basically to abuse with Empyrial plate on evasive creatures. The more I think about it, the more Tax Rack is looking good at best. Tax/plate is just as good. But not great. Plate at least will help win the game. Land tax only gets land into my hand. I'm probably going more in the direction of Aether Vial in the main. I can play dudes for free and blow their stuff up. This is very key in a deck like this. Agressive. I agree, the vials do kind of simulate a mox-like effect. Also, with Tradewinds in the board, I need guys in play fast so I can start bouncing. I also need 3-4 mana for the angel laying around which is a major investment. OK that's it. Vials are in. Scroll rack is out. OK here's the latest:

4 Samurai of the pale curtain
4 Meddling mage
4 True believer
4 Exaled angel
4 Lions
4 Land tax
4 Aether vial
4 Swords TP
4 Abolish
3 Sword of fire and ice
1 Umezawa's jitte
4 Tundra
4 Flooded strand
1 island
1 mox pearl
1 lotus
10 plains

SB
4 Tradewinds
4 Serenity
4 Dust to Dust-probably disenchant because I may not get them in time...
3 Kami of ancient Law

This sideboard seems really tight to me. The rule of law is cool. I may be swayed to that. Desroying 2 artifact is Rack and ruin and we all know how good that card is.


I should probably throw one Ismaru in there and cut a Lion.

The Kamis are totally in the board. They are very narrow. Samurai is better.

Having some blue in the deck doesn't automatically turn it into Fish. That's like saying that a CS deck is Keeper because it has artifacts in it. Seriously, come on. It was a time honored tradition to include blue cards like mind bend in WW. Sometimes mana leak. Or in my case meddling mage and Tradewinds. Personally I like WW better than Fish. It has Swords TP and Disenchant effects. The creatures are extremely effecient. And so on. Yes, you don't get Force of Will and Mana Drain, but those aren't agressive anyways. I think they didn't play Drain but did play Daze if I remember. Why am I rambling about Fish?

What does everyone think about Dust to Dust? 
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jackpot
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« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2005, 05:16:15 pm »

Aether vial turned out to be poor. Land tax isn't as bad. It does work well with Abolish, but nothing else. I'm taking out the vials to put Armageddons back in. Sword of fire Ice is pretty bad in T1. It would be better as Jitte. So her's the update:

4 Land tax
4 swords to plowshares
4 Umezawa's Jitte-You get it, you win, basically.
4 Armageddon-this would have been WAY better than Vial. Period
4 Abolish
4 Savannah lions
4 Samurai of the pale urtain
4 True believer
4 Meddling mage-always name force of will-trust me on this one!!!!!
4 Exalted angel
1 Lotus
1 Mox pearl
9 Plains
4 Flodded strand
4 Tundra
1 Island

SB

4 Serenity
4 Tradewind-may be better of as Whipcorder against Tinkered out DSC. I personallly think Tradewind is great.
4 Disenchant-This should be a remove from game effect in retrospect. Altar's light is slow, however.
3 Kami of Ancient Law

I played in the YMG Ruby tourney today. Yes, I did poorly. Mostly because of Force of will spoiling my fun. Seriously. One game was decided because I was going to drop a Kitty AND a Tradewing Rider on turn 1 courtesy of a Lotus, pearl, and a Tundra. He forced the Tradewind and comes back to Belcher me out a few turns later.  Absolutly stupid. I had him locked on turn 2, but no, force of will. Force should be restricted. It's way better than Mana Drain. That would open up the T1 field and make it more interesting at least! Oh and whover suggested Abolish, consider yourself a living genius! Nobody sees those coming.

Tomorrow its West Springfield, MA. Those Armageddons are going to WIN dammit. And the Jittes WILL kill many Welders, etc. This time, its personal.
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Prometheon
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« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2005, 02:59:18 pm »

Play Empyrial Armor, it's amazing in WW. I won a small vintage tourny yesterday with WW and walked away with an Italian Mana Drain. Null Rod in the SB and Empyrial Armor were largely responsible.
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jackpot
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« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2005, 03:35:28 pm »

The latest manifestaition:

4 Kitties
4 Samurai of the pale curtain
4 Meddling mage-always name force of will, trust me on this one...
4 True believer
4 Exalted angel
4 Abolish
4 land tax
4 EMPYRIAL ARMOR
4 NULL ROD -no fun for you, Slaver-boy
4 Swords to plowshares -go farming welder. Go hug a tree colossus
1 Mox pearl
1 Black lotus
4 Flooded strand
4 Tundra
10 Plains

SB:
3 Kami of ancient law-vs oath
4 Tradewind rider-against fatties and anything troublesome
4 Serenity
4 more card. Maybe disenchants or white shoals

This seems extremly focused now. The 4 Land tax in the deck still doesn't sit well with me. It does help out with Abolish and pumping the Armors. It's to bad that the new white shoal make you discard a card with HAS to equal the amount of damage and not just discard a whit card. I do like the idea of discarding an Exalted angel and dealing 6 to my opponent. For the win most likely. This may be better off used against other fast weenie decks.
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Engine_number_9
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« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2005, 04:00:35 pm »

4 Meddling mage-always name force of will, trust me on this one...

Name tinker instead - or Oath. Otherwise they'll just go turtor tinker -> dsc win or Oath - > win. Even if you want to name a "counterspell" name drain since it's a very important part of drain decks mana.
   
I think that you ought to be run 4 or 5 strip effects. You'll have trouble keeping other decks in check without them.
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