Cabal Therapy -- knowing the name or not

[Dozer]

This is not a question, but a post that refers to the discussion about Therapy in the Buehler-thread in Open. I didn't want to clutter that thread with the quotes, and here the issue has its proper place.

So the question was: Does an opponent have to say the proper name of the card he wants to catch with Therapy, or is an accurate description enough? I looked it up in SCG's Ask The Judge database, since I didn't find anything in the CompRules about it. Here are the relevant results, which give contradicting evidence:

Q: [...]  My question is, am I allowed to ask the judge what the morph cost is on Rockshard Elemental (or any other card) in a sanctioned tournament?

A: Yes. Any player is entitled to the complete and most recent Oracle wording of any card. You're even allowed to ask a Judge what the name of a card is, like for the purposes of Cabal Therapy ("what's the Angel with Morph that has life gain?"). When in doubt, Ask the Judge.

and

Q: What are the exact rules regarding cards that specify a card be named? Take Meddling Mage and Cabal Therapy. If my opponent calls Oath with a Mage, am I allowed to cast "Oath of Druids," or are they forced to complete the name of the card?

A: If your opponent says "Oath," he hasn't named a card that exists. He can't do that in hopes of preventing you from playing any of the five Oaths. He must say the exact name of the card. (And you've just given me an idea for my next column!)

and from Ask The Judge 3/10/05

Q: I was playing a PTQ yesterday and my opponent played Duress targeting me. He saw my hand that I had Death Wish but he wrote in his notes "Black Wish." Then a turn after, he played Cabal Therapy, and said "Black Wish." I said that this card didn't exist, so he must name another card. Then he asked the nearest judge, ‘What's the name of the "Black wish" card?’ and the judge told him the real name. I said that this is not valid, that at least my opponent must name the text of the card and its cost. But the judge said that I was wrong. Is that true? Was I wrong?

A: A player does not have to give the exact text, including mana cost of the card he is thinking of in order for the judge to provide assistance. As long a he gives an adequate description of the card in question to the judge I see no reason why the judge should not tell him the name of the card he is thinking of. Since there aren't any other Black Wishes, what he said was reasonable.

So it is not clear. I guess you will have to ask the opponent to say the correct name every time when resolving Therapy to avoid any wild guesses and to not give information away for those cases where actually need your opponent to specify. When it's clear what he means, though, I wouldn't bother (like in the above example). If he sees a Death Wish with a Duress and says "black wish" a turn later with Therapy, is it really worth asking for the proper name? I think not, especially since there is only one black wish in the game.

Dozer

[Slay]

The rule is that the opponent must uniquely identify a card. If you have any questions about what cards were named, you call the judge.
-Slay

[epeeguy]

Most judges will ask that you provide enough information in order to provide you with a name.  That can be part of the name, what the card does, the mana cost and color of the card, etc.  So long as there is enough information that the card can be "uniquely identified" that will be sufficient.  The idea is to be able to identify a specific Magic card in order to reasonably play the game.

[BurningIce]

Exactly.  Just saying Oath doesn't cut it because there are other Oaths... like Oath of Ghouls.  But Death Wish is the only Black Wish.  In that case it is obvious what he meant.

[lep]

The card he is referring to just has to be unique.  For example, Green Oath, Black Wish, "The card where you get rid of all but 5 cards and lose half your life", and junk like that.  If an issue comes up, I always call a judge.  Most of the time he\she will just tell you the name if you describe it.  Happened to me with Meddling Mage many times.

[Luiggi]

Just thought I'd chime in with this, from last weekend's Saturday School, since it's applicable to Therapy as well:

"Q: If a player can't remember the name of a card while resolving Cranial Extraction, can he mention one or any of its characteristics (like cost, P/T, etc.)?

A: Previously there was a tendency to insist on perfection when it comes to card naming. However, years of event experience has taught people that that level of detail is not needed to play games. Add in the possibility of foreign languages and accents, and sometimes it's very hard to communicate even when using the right words. In general, use English names. If that doesn't work, use the name in your own country's language. If necessary, you can describe the card, but only if the description uniquely identifies the card.

For example: Thirst For Knowledge can be uniquely identified with “Thirst For Knowledge,� “the blue instant that draws three and then discards two or an artifact,� or even “the card drawing uncommon from Mirrodin showing a guy chugging blue Vedalken brain-swill.""

Luiggi