The Sith Lords Fight!

[Anusien]

This is probably a forgone conclusion, but I just want to make sure -- which Sith Lord would win in a fight?
The evil, powerful, bad ass Darth Vader?
The wrinkly, icky, political Darth Sidious?
The athletic, saber-staff-wielding, silent Darth Maul?
The wussy Darth Tyranus?

[Komatteru]

Sidious controls the entire galaxy.  This is not a contest.

[Machinus]

Is this a 4-way free for all?

[Matt]

Sidious commanded all three of the others. He's the only one on that list which is the Master and not the Apprentice. It's not even remotely fair.

[Klep]

Well here's the question.  Sidious's strength was more in manipulation than combat.  He almost always had his apprentices to do fighting for him, and when he finally came up against someone with a similar degree of mastery of the Force (Mace Windu) he got his ass handed to him.  Then again, he subsequently held his own against Yoda.  Consequently, I think that it's actually rather difficult to determine exactly how well he would do against the others in a straight-up fight.

Of course, of the other three, Vader wins hands down. Tyranus, as mentioned, was a pussy and Maul was too showy, not to mention that Vader is stronger in the Force than the both of them put together.  So it ultimately comes down to Vader or Sidious.

[Machinus]

When Sidious was at the height of his powers, he was destroyed by Vader. However, Vader was only victorious because he renounced the Dark side. Therefore, this is an unanswerable quesiton. As Sith, Sidious is undefeatable by any of his apprentices. However Sidious is clearly beatable by Jedi. There are only two canonical examples of this, but I think it is reasonable to say that Jedi beyond Windu and Anakin could have bested Sidious in a fight, most likely Obi-Wan and Luke.

[Limbo]

Well here's the question.  Sidious's strength was more in manipulation than combat.  He almost always had his apprentices to do fighting for him, and when he finally came up against someone with a similar degree of mastery of the Force (Mace Windu) he got his ass handed to him.

Sidious just faked losing to Windu so he could force (no pun intended) a certain Skywalker into transferring to the dark side. Sidious has all the powers baby.

[TracerBullet]

Wow, it almost makes me cry that people would be so out of their minds as to choose anybody, EVER, over Darth Vader.



I'd like to reemphasize the period on the end of that statement.

[Kowal]

Well here's the question.  Sidious's strength was more in manipulation than combat.  He almost always had his apprentices to do fighting for him, and when he finally came up against someone with a similar degree of mastery of the Force (Mace Windu) he got his ass handed to him.

That wasn't mastery of the force.  That was SAMUEL L FUCKING JACKSON.  You can't touch that shit no matter what sort of mystical powers or spiffy electronic death toys you wield.

[Komatteru]

That was SAMUEL L FUCKING JACKSON.  You can't touch that shit no matter what sort of mystical powers or spiffy electronic death toys you wield.

That is so easy to discover that it suggests conspicuousness or little need for perspicacity in the observer.  Samuel L Jackson is superfly TNT.  He's a mushroom-cloud laying motherfucker, motherfucker.

[jpmeyer]

He's the Guns of Navarone!

[Jacob Orlove]

Poll fixed by popular demand. And yes, you can change your vote.

[dandan]

Vader was Sidious's bitch.

Maul looked good although a 1-1 record against Jedi is nothing to write home about (he was about the only good thing in Star Wars I, trailer aside). In a free-for-all, with Vader and Sidious occupying each other, mastery of a light sabre with two dangerous ends would be a big advantage. Had Maul had time to develop past the classic 'baddie who gloats over a helpless hero' stage, he could have been a contender.

Sammy was not a Sith.

[Jacob Orlove]

Sammy was not a Sith.

The (unchanged) poll question is "Who would win in a fight?" not "Which Sith Lord would win in a fight?".

[dandan]

The (unchanged) comment was

"Sammy was not a Sith"

If you conclude from that that he should not be included in a 'The Sith Lords Fight' thread, you most certainly have a point. In any case, unless the Sith have a weakness to the word 'fuck' like the Knights who say Ni have to the word 'it', Sammy might have a problem. If it were a fuck-saying question, Sammy L (I'm pretty sure nobody likes having the surname Jackson these days) would go straight into the final with the cast of South Park.

[Bram]

Look, face it: Vader will win ANY poll that includes him. And justly so.

[Jacob Orlove]

Look, face it: Vader will win ANY poll that includes him. And justly so.

Could he beat Batman in a poll?

[Anusien]

Look, face it: Vader will win ANY poll that includes him. And justly so.

Could he beat Batman in a poll?

They'd never fight, because Batman's not a monster.

Batman would clearly try to take down Vader if he had the chance, because Vader is an evil mofo.  The catch is Batman wouldn't try to redeem Vader, he'd kill him AND the Emperor.  Batman wouldn't get in a direct fight either, he'd sit back and figure out a tactical vader to eliminate them both.

Then again, who do you think leaked the plans to the Death Stars?  "Many Bothans died to bring us this information" == "Batman is the shit."

[Machinus]

Look, face it: Vader will win ANY poll that includes him. And justly so.

Could he beat Batman in a poll?

They'd never fight, because Batman's not a monster.

Batman would clearly try to take down Vader if he had the chance, because Vader is an evil mofo.  The catch is Batman wouldn't try to redeem Vader, he'd kill him AND the Emperor.  Batman wouldn't get in a direct fight either, he'd sit back and figure out a tactical vader to eliminate them both.

Then again, who do you think leaked the plans to the Death Stars?  "Many Bothans died to bring us this information" == "Batman is the shit."

The Death Star plans were deliberately leaked to lure the Rebels into a trap. The Bothan spies got played, just like the Rebel Alliance.

There is no way Batman could ever defeat Darth Vader.

[Matt]

Batman would clearly try to take down Vader if he had the chance, because Vader is an evil mofo.  The catch is Batman wouldn't try to redeem Vader, he'd kill him AND the Emperor.

And thus Batman would lose. As Luke understood, you cannot beat the Dark Side with force and violence and anger and hate.

[Jacob Orlove]

Batman would clearly try to take down Vader if he had the chance, because Vader is an evil mofo.  The catch is Batman wouldn't try to redeem Vader, he'd kill him AND the Emperor.

And thus Batman would lose. As Luke understood, you cannot beat the Dark Side with force and violence and anger and hate.

Actually, Batman, like Luke, is all about redemption. Unlike Superman, Batman has never killed anyone--not even the crazy homicidal maniacs that keep showing up.

Oh, and also, the current record is something like Superman: 0, Batman: 20. Batman wins all unfair fights, and that's what this would be.

[dandan]

And thus Batman would lose. As Luke understood, you cannot beat the Dark Side with force and violence and anger and hate.

Damned straight. The Dark Side of the Moon is a fine piece of music.

[Bram]

No, I'm pretty sure Batman would win. Somehow. I can't explain it, but he'll figure something out. I mean, the motherfucker beat SUPERMAN, for crying out loud. And Predator. And Aliens. Vader would pose no real problem for the Bat.

[dandan]

No, I'm pretty sure Batman would win. Somehow. I can't explain it, but he'll figure something out. I mean, the motherfucker beat SUPERMAN, for crying out loud. And Predator. And Aliens. Vader would pose no real problem for the Bat.

Batman is so awesome that even though his punches miss the villain by miles they still fly backwards as if Batman is using the Force and a mysterious bubble with POW appears in the vicinity (obviously FOW would be more apt if he were actually using the Force).

Beating Superman is tooooooooo easy, just attack innocents and he'll go to save them. Taking out Jedi is far harder. Note that Vader, unlike Superman and Batman appears able to reproduce. I guess Sammy probably has a few sprogs too but the other Sith Lords probably just play with their light sabres.

[forests failed you]

It depends on what context you put it in.  Palpatine had a lot more experience and knowledge of the Force than Vader because he was older and already a master.  However, Vader has more potential and power, however not the experience to wield it properly over Palpatine.   

I think that in a straight up fight during Return of the Jedi Palpatine probably would have defeated Vader;  However, I think it is clear from the movies that Darth Vader had the potential to eventually become more powerful than the Emperor.  After all in Empire Strikes back Vader tells Luke that the Emperor has foreseen Vader and Luke becoming more powerful than him and destroying him.  (whether that is merely Vader being manipulative, or actual fact, we can never really know for sure). 

Anyways, from my understanding of the story Anakin (Vader) has the ability to be the most powerful (whether for the Jedi or the Sith) Force wielding agent in the Galaxy because his "Metachlorian" (I have no idea how to spell this word and I refuse to look it up on the web) count is higher than anyone. 

Also, in the Wizards of the Coast Star Wars miniature game the most powerful Darth Vader is more powerful than the most powerful Emperor.  They are both broken, but the Vader is better.  Not that that means anything, or I would base any kind of arguement off it.  I just thought I would throw that out there. 

Either way, I personally think Palpatine is much cooler than Vader as a character

[Smmenen]

This is the STUPIDEST Poll I've ever seen.

OBVIOUSLY in a fair fight no one can even get close to Darth Sidious.  There isn't even a question.

NO ONE.

YODA GOT HIS ASS KICKED.  OK???  YODA. 

YES, Darth Vader threw Sidious over the reactor - but it was a total surprise and not really a fair test of his abilities in a fair fight.

NOW, if Anakin had not fallen into lava and had not become more machine than man, I would put my money on Vader.

In the Episode III novelization, they don't even refer to him as Sidious or Palpatine after a certain point in the book - they refer to him as "The Shadow" - the shadow which is the darkness at the heart of the galaxy.

[jpmeyer]

What if we included the Extended Universe characters?

[Smmenen]

Doesn't that make Palpatine alot more powerful?  After all, he then survived ROTJ. 

One thing that is really important is that the only person who should be able to defeat Palpatine in a fair fight is actually someone like LUKE or one of his padawans.

In the Episode III novelization, Yoda comes to the realization that although:

* He has trained for 900 years to face the sith
* that he is the greatest jedi - the most light of the light of the whole order
* that he is the most knowledgeable jedji
* that he has basked in the light side of the force for longer than anyone ever
* that he has prepared his whole existence for this moment

But yoda comes to the realization that he just doesn't have it. 

He could not defeat Sidious - or as the book calls him, the Shadow.  Why?

The shadow would not have emerged unless it was prepared to beat the best of Jedi Order unequivocally.  The Jedi have spent their whole existence, in Yoda's view, to fight the LAST war of the Sith.  The Sith were biding their time in secret and evolved beyond that paradigm while the Jedi did not.  The Jedi order and their whole approach or paradigm, as it was culminated in Yoda, could not defeat Sidious. 

And since Sidious was the greatest of all the Sith, no Sith could defeat him either.

Only a Jedi which was not indoctrinated by the old Jedi order and old Jedi ways from the Old Republic could beat Sidious.  I think that a fully trained Luke MIGHT have been able to beat Sidious.  Remember, Luke was not trained in the old way.  He was discovered by the living force - not some Jedi Scout and taken away as an infant.  Luke was trained only in the ways that Yoda knew were necessary to fight the Emperor - but not the dogmatic view of the old Jedi Order.

It's actually quite interesting, Episode III sets up the whole Jedi v. Sith war as a dialetic - a constant evolution as each prepares to defeat their ancient enemy.  The only problem is that this time there are no Sith left.  Right? 

[BigMac]

Steve,

having read the books you know Luke will be drawn to the dark side after part VI. His sister is the real hero.

PS i am not sure what is more disturbing to me, your post and the fact that i am not alone, or the fact that i knew the answer to your question.

[Meddling Mike]

I'm sorry, but I'm DEFINITELY giving props to Samuel L. Jackson in this one. Yoda is a badass, but Mace Windu is the head of the Jedi Council, and he was beating the bejesus out of Palpatine before Anakin did his thing and changed sides while somebody was in the midst of killing somebody else. Now, I've seen it suggested that Palpatine was just playing dumb, but I don't think he'd just chill and allow himself to be physically mutilated by Windu just for show. Vader's a badass, and he managed to take out Windu and Palpatine, but in both cases he basically jumped them, in a straight up fight I think Palpatine OR Windu would take him to school. As far as just the sith are concerned, I'll give it to Palpatine. If Vader was more powerful than Palpatine, do you think he'd just be sitting about being his bitch? I don't think so, Vader would be running the show if he was the more powerful of the two, instead he's taking shit from Grand Moff Tarkin and random high ranking officers are talking smack to him RIGHT TO HIS FACE. He had to do the force choke things just to get some respect. You think he'd be calling it a dead religion if Palpatine was in the room? I don't think so!