Goblin Sligh help requested

[Derisive]

So, I'm new here, new to Type 1, and have never been in a tournament.  :shock:

Anyhow, here's my Goblin Sligh. I'm not a rich player at all. I have no power, and I have a very limited budget. Gogo sky-high tuition and rent. I'm not really interested in scrapping the entire deck for some other one, so bear with me on this. I'm wondering if this would be competitive on a local scale:

Creatures -- 23
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Siege Gang Commander
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Piledriver

Spells -- 19
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Incinerate
3 Fireblast

Lands -- 18
4 City of Brass
3 Battlefield Forge
11 Mountain

Sideboard
4 Disenchant
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sulfuric Vortex

Eventually Cities of Brass will be replaced with Plateaus. In other aspects I'm failrly happy with this deck. Anyone and everyone is free to AIM me at elp0g0 for Apprentice or AIM play to help me perfect my deck, and deepest apologies if I dropped this in the wrong forum.

[elias]

Too much burn, not enough spells. I'd make room for...

4 Goblin Matron
1 Kiki Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 (1/1 goblin which puts other goblins into play whatever his name is)
2 Sharpshooters

[Derisive]

Matron in T1? Doesn't recruiter destroy Matron?

Also, Goblin Lackey brings in the other Gobbies, and I run 4.

The only thing worth Kiki-ing is a Piledriver. Is it really neccessary?

[Arvid]

I'd play 4 recruiter, 4 ringleader, and 4 wasteland/1 strip mine.

Then, probably, I'd play some goblin vandals and welders MD too, they're not dead draws and good and tutorable ws hate.

Actually, If I would too play the deck I would cut all the 19 (!) burn spells and replace them with goblins and waste/strip.

[Derisive]

O_O


You're sure of that? WOuld I sub in the white as main deck at that point?

[Arvid]

No, I don't think so. You play something like 4 Mogg Fanatic, 1-2 Gempalm Incinerator, 0-1 Goblin Sharpshooter and 1-3 Siege-gang Commander. That's the creature removal, there. Then you play something like 1-4 Goblin Vandal and 1-4 Goblin Welder, depending on the meta. That's the artifact removal. Then you play 4 Wasteland, 1 Strip mine, that's the disruption.

The fact that red can't do anything against combo or enchantments (or DSC) is just something to accept I think. The deck has a good chance against control but bad against combo. If your meta is filled with combo then goblins is a poor choice, otherwise just lose duel 1 and then sideboard some Pyrostatic Pillar and some reb/pyroblasts. Enchantments isn't really an issue, anyway, is it?

[Derisive]

I don't know about me being destroyed by combo decks. I beat fairly handily a nice Reanimator this afternoon. Which combos might I be losing too?

[Arvid]

TPS (the perfect storm), Gifts, Rector.

[elias]

Oh yeah, matron's for extended, my bad.

Kiki-jiki=Siege-gang with a piledriver in play? good game!



Trust me, I've been on the recieving end of a painful jiki activation. If you've got nothing to do, you can always copy your sharpshooter or recruiter. :p

[Arvid]

I think you could playtest something like this:

5 waste/strip
8 red fetch
7 mountain

4 goblin lackey
4 skirk prospector
4 goblin warchief
4 goblin recruiter
4 goblin ringleader
4 goblin piledriver
4 mogg fanatic
2 siege-gang commander
1 gempalm incinerator
1 goblin sharpshooter
4 goblin vandal
1 goblin welder
3 goblin matron

sb
4 pyrostatic pillar
3 red elemental blast
2 pyroblast
3 goblin welder
2 rack and ruin
1 gempalm incinerator

[Anusien]

Why are you not playing Food Chain? (http://www.themanadrain.com/primers/fcg.htm  The ability to randomly combo out will let you win some matches that are previously unwinnable, and if that fails, you can still combo out.  Green is also probably a much better sideboard choice because you get Artifact Mutation, and that card is a killer versus Workshop Aggro and Stax.

[Mark_Story]

If you are going to go budget I would suggest FCG over goblin sligh.  FCG can randomnly combo and win.  It also loses little that goblin sligh offers.  However you need taigas.  If that is a problem, then I would stick with goblin sligh, it is the fastest non-combo aggro deck around, if your metagame is primarily non-powered decks, goblins can pwn quite well. 

I think in your original list you have far too much burn as well.  I would cut back to the 8 Bolts, fireblast and 3 goblin grenade.

Play kiki-jiki!!! he's insane in goblins.  Copying a piledriver with haste will never make you loose the game.  Also copying goblins like siege-gang, ringleader, and lackey borders on unfair. Also remember that if you copy a creature after end of turn triggers go on stack that you get to keep the copy until the end of your turn.  Allowing you to turn 1 piledriver into 3.  Pretty hot.

other cards you might want to look at.

Goblin king.  If other people are playing decks with mountain or little men, goblin king is great, and with the 9th errata, he can be fetched with matron/recruiter/ringleader.

Umezawa's Jitte.  Some times a little too slow for goblins, but it destroys any creature based deck.

Aether vial.  The only thing better than 4 goblin lackeys is 8. Vial is extremely strong in goblins as you have powerful drops all they way up the curve, and it lets you get by counters/chalice/standstill, which is great.
 

[Derisive]

I just read up on FCG, it seems pretty powerful. I might proxy the Taigas (4 of them I assume) in favor of completeing all other areas of the deck first. I was thinking about using the build listed here: http://www.themanadrain.com/primers/fcg.htm

C&Ped herer:
//Mana
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Lotus Petal
2 ESG
1 Chrome Mox
1 Sol Ring�
1 Mana Crypt
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
6 Mountain

// Combo Card
4 Food Chain

// Creatures
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Goblin Matron
3 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Recruiter
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Skirk Prospector
4 Goblin Lackey


I'm wonderinf a few things.
1: how do I get the FChain?
2: what is ESG?
3: Additions/subtractions to this deck?

[Disburden]

ESG is Elvish Spirit Guide


She's the bitch.

[Arvid]

I think Food Chain is just a win more card. It can give you random wins against combo but that is a bad matchup anyway, so improving it by including 4 dead draws (win more cards) in every other matchup just seems bad. I know I will get every one against me by saying this but ...

[spawn]

I agree with Arvid.

foodchain isnt wort it.
if you want to play combo, play somthing else.

noncreature spells isnt good either.
take a look at Arvids list.

the chance to random combo out with foodchain is not a good argument.
imo, those matchups, you would have won anyway.

/spawn

[islanderboi10]

But Foodcahin also gives you the upper edge on aggro. You can just combo out on them on turn like 3 and they can't deal with it. same vs. combo decks(slower ones as in TPS and Dragon), you can just combo on them and they can't do much agaisnt that.

But if I had to cut it, why run R/g Goblins? I would add either white for Swords to Plowshare and Artifact/Enchantment hate, etc. or Black for Duress, Cabal Therapy, etc. I guess it would be more meta dependant. If there are a lot of combo, go R/b, if there is a lot of control/aggro(which you should win anyways with Foodchain) then go R/w.

Also, another thing most player dont realize is that you dont have to be comboing to use foodchain. I have dropped it, sacced dead or other goblins in play to do a chain of Ringleaders(hitting Matrons, etc. Of course) and stuff. In the end, I had 3 Piledrivers. My point is, you can use the card to gain mass amounts of mana and possibly drop the big boys faster.

[silvernail]

food chain opens all kind of possibilities that a regular goblin deck lacks, all you people saying that it is horrible are newbies for a reason drawing combo pieces when you cant combo off in any deck can make them "dead" draws. But food chain lets you cast things pretty well and setup good draws via matrons recruiters and ring leaders even if you cant actually combo at the time.

Taking food chain out of this deck is like running counterspell over mana drain: you get a similar plan of winning but lack explosive potential that sets you on a different level than if you didn't run the given card.

[islanderboi10]

food chain opens all kind of possibilities that a regular goblin deck lacks, all you people saying that it is horrible are newbies for a reason drawing combo pieces when you cant combo off in any deck can make them "dead" draws. But food chain lets you cast things pretty well and setup good draws via matrons recruiters and ring leaders even if you cant actually combo at the time.

Taking food chain out of this deck is like running counterspell over mana drain: you get a similar plan of winning but lack explosive potential that sets you on a different level than if you didn't run the given card.

I'm glad someone else agrees with me.

[Derisive]

I'done major online play testing with both FCG and a modified R/W sligh and I've found the R/W Sligh is just tons faster due to the Matrons and Ringleaders being so expensive. The burn has also won me tons of games.

[silvernail]

umm owww...what decks are you playing against? FC makes casting your guys very easy, you dont hard cast them with friggin mountains. Alos you should be running mana crypt moxes and sol ring (im not looking at the list atm so maybe you do have them), but this is a proven deck for a reason and that reason is the raw power the deck wields. Burn has ineviatblity to be sure but so does FCG. And white is for what ???? Swords is not a good reason and neither is disenchant or seal of cleansing because you can run the green mana and have access to naturalize and artifact mutations, which work better vs pretty much anything out side of an oath matchup.

[dend51]

There is no possible way that R/W goblins is faster than FCG over a couple of matches. You have to change your whole mana base around if you want to play FCG you need ancient tombs, crypts and just mana accels 19 lands is way too many for any FCG deck it should be around 15. I dont know what you are playing against but FCG is alot faster than the R/W(just based upon the list that is up). adding green and foodchain just makes the deck faster and able to combo out turns 2-4 easy, and if you cant combo then you can get alot of goblins out through the searchers and maybe off the draw on gempalm. I have been playing a version of FCG for the past 3 years now, it is my favorite deck to play with because of the creature beatdown and able to combo out fast and race most decks if need be.

[spawn]

lol, tps and dragon is NOT slower than fcg, ok?

a single fow will destroy your chances of comboing out, so will a duress etc.

a white splash for stp & maby disenchant may be good, but i think its very meta dependent.(3c is not an option!)

fcg wasnt built to race other combo decks, it wast build to play against control decks.

it ther is alot of combo decks in your meta, I would not play this deck.

[Derisive]

Thanks for all the feedback, I've been reading this avidly.

[dend51]

lol, tps and dragon is NOT slower than fcg, ok?

I dont believe i ever said that either of those decks were slower than FCG...i dont even recall talking about either of those decks?

fcg wasnt built to race other combo decks, it wast build to play against control decks.

a single fow will destroy your chances of comboing out, so will a duress etc.

I am sorry but those two statements just dont make sense together, either deck loses to control or it was built to beat control?

In my time playing the deck the worst matchup for me were decks like 7/10 and TNT just big artifact decks that can block and kill off creatures. Blue control decks have never been a problem with me and as far as combo goes this has never really been a major problem to play against. Most combo decks that i have faced are about 50/50. I think FCG can be a very fast deck and you can also splash some control in it to help some matchups. I am at work right now but i will try and remember to post my list when i get home.

[forests failed you]

FCG is really good right now.  It can easily race combo decks, and control has a really hard time dealing with suck efficient beat down.

In regards to your deck list. 

I would advise you to cut your burn spells; and get it on with the goblin beats.

+4 Goblin Ringleader
+4 Gobln Recruiter
+3 Goblin Matron
+3 Gempalm Incinerator
+2 Food Chain

This stuff should be in your deck.  Goblin Ringleader is, aside from Goblin Lackey, the best card in Goblins.  Food Chain is definately not a 'Win More' card, it is a 'Win Now' card.  It allows the deck to kill on the second turn, and that is a really good thing.

The only thing is that if you add Ringleader, you have to cut the burn spells.  When you flip five you have to draw two goblins.  Therefore the deck needs to be Goblins, Mana Sources, and Food Chains to maximize the efficienty of the Ringleader.  Dropping a Ringleader off a Lackey is so stupid good it is actually upsetting.

Windfall and I were going to play FCG at Vintage Worlds, the only problem was that we don't actually own any Goblin cards that are not Welders!  (Which was a considerable set back to building the deck).  That is my two cents, Food Chains in, Ringleader and more Goblins in, and then burn spells out.   Also, Gempalm is really good at killing opposing Welders.  He is uncounterable when he cycles, so you can keep yourself from getting Slavered while not actually wasting a card.

Good Luck!

[Revvik]

Duress is ASS against Food Chain Goblins.
Leading off with a wasteable land, playing Duress and seeing

Mountain
Lackey
Lackey
Recruiter
Taiga
Wasteland
Ringleader

easily makes you want to cry at having paid $80 per Mana Drain (especially when you're about to get your teeth kicked in by a cheap Saga rare).

You also need the acceleration when playing this deck if you don't want to turn it into a deck that bottlenecks on Goblin Lackey.  Increasing your turn one threats are important, and Lackey need not be the only one.  And the only burn spell you need is Gempalm Incinerator, since there's really only one thing you want to get rid of.

If you're looking for cards to proxy, consider these:
-5 Proxy-
4 Taiga
Black Lotus
-10 Proxy-
4 Taiga
Black Lotus
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
3 Empty slots - I think Piledriver is your next most expensive card.

I'd also like to dispel the belief that combo is a bad matchup for this deck.  It simply is not.
The ability to set up a combo win yourself at their speed is offset by the fact that you're packing two very powerful hate colors - Red and Green.

Ground Seal does the job decently enough against Dragon, and some builds of FCG have maindeck Naturalize - this ensures that Pernicious Deed will not stop your Seals from continued effectiveness.
Pyrostatic Pillar helps keep Storm combo on a tight enough rope to deliver the Goblin beats before they can recover.
Red Elemental Blast does double duty against Combo (Storm and non) and Control - countering Draw7s / Draw Spells and the despised Tinker.

None of these cards are meant to actually STOP the decks in question - they are meant to force them to play things out while you race for the endzone.

forcefieldyou: (SIGH) you didn't have GOBLINS?!  Jeez, you needed bad cards and I never even heard a please.  :lol:

[Arvid]

fcg wasnt built to race other combo decks, it wast build to play against control decks.

a single fow will destroy your chances of comboing out, so will a duress etc.

I am sorry but those two statements just dont make sense together, either deck loses to control or it was built to beat control?

I have to agree with dend51 here. And I don't think FCG was built to play against control. IMO goblin sligh without Food Chain already overwhelms most control decks, FC is not needed to play against control. Therefore it looks more logical that FC were included to - try to - race combo, and combo out against aggro, fish and any random scrub deck. Although, since regular goblin sligh (correclt built) already should beat the non combo decks I mentioned but can't race combo often enough, IMO Food Chain is a dead card. Including cards to improve the combo mathcup seems great but I don't think Food Chain is the answer. Cards like REB, Null Rod or perhaps the new Supression Field come to mind.

[Disburden]

Windfall and I were going to play FCG at Vintage Worlds, the only problem was that we don't actually own any Goblin cards that are not Welders!  (Which was a considerable set back to building the deck).  That is my two cents, Food Chains in, Ringleader and more Goblins in, and then burn spells out.   Also, Gempalm is really good at killing opposing Welders.  He is uncounterable when he cycles, so you can keep yourself from getting Slavered while not actually wasting a card.

Good Luck!

It's so funny you said this because I wanted to play FCG for the past two months, but own nothing but welders as goblins. I haven't felt like spending 150$ on goblins yet  :lol:

[spawn]

lol, tps and dragon is NOT slower than fcg, ok?

I dont believe i ever said that either of those decks were slower than FCG...i dont even recall talking about either of those decks?

Maby, because you didnt! read above answers plz..

fcg wasnt built to race other combo decks, it wast build to play against control decks.

a single fow will destroy your chances of comboing out, so will a duress etc.

I am sorry but those two statements just dont make sense together, either deck loses to control or it was built to beat control?

no, you got it wrong(and I put it in a bad way!), what Im trying to say, is that FC is a win more card. Imo the deck should be a sligh with just creatures.

How dangerous is a fow or a duress when playing just lands and creatures?and when playing with FC?

I still think that fcg was built to play against control decks, and it does so very good. I just think that including FC is suboptimal.

Imo the bad matchups for this deck, is combo decks, and to IMPROVE the combo matchup, try some metagamed hate instead of FC.