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Author Topic: More Vintage Tech with Randy Buehler: Meandeck GiftsOath  (Read 19881 times)
Liam-K
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« Reply #90 on: October 26, 2005, 08:29:59 pm »

First of all, I think the attacks on how streamlined the deck is are unfair.  While they are true, the list we have isn't done.

I'm going to come back and basically say what I said before.  I have a bad feeling about this change.  I don't feel that the deck gains "raw power" I think it gains chances to lucksack a win.  If you toss down and oath and defend it and then pass the turn 3 times without it falling to pieces you win, but that just feel very weak to me compared to what you give up, which is the ability to play the deck elegantly.

Toad said in the members only forum that gifts is such a powerful spell that resolving one should win you the game and this is very important.  Oath does not do this.  Oath dilutes a deck designed to maximise your ability to set up a WIN with Gifts in spite of your opponent.  Oath cannot ignore the opponent and that's why the deck is not teir 1.

In fact, I think I would go so far as to say that if Tinker were for some reason unrestricted, 4 would not be the correct number in a gifts deck.  More than 1 probably, and certainly decks built around tinker would want 4, but in a Gifts deck, it's Gifts that wins you the game, NOT the big man.  Concentrating too much on DSC is like pretending Tog wins games when it's the setup that does it.

In fact, I may start a thread about deckbuilding theory in terms of resource conversion, stressing that the game-winning board position is INFINITELY more important than the resource converter that translates that board position into 20 damage.  I think that's the concept this deck is missing.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 08:36:04 pm by Liam-K » Logged

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doylehancock
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« Reply #91 on: October 27, 2005, 04:35:40 am »

I do like your points and I agree the deck isnt finished.

But here is where we disagree:  The point in Magic is to win.  If you deal 20 points of damage to your opponents and they die you win.  If this takes 2 turns or 5 turns you still win.  It doesnt matter if you have board position in the end it just matters who won.
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Liam-K
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« Reply #92 on: October 27, 2005, 03:28:57 pm »

If you deal 20 damage you win, but if you blow your load without dealing 20 damage (ie counterwar over oath) then you have not won, all you've achieved is a clock.
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FiReiSFuN
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« Reply #93 on: October 27, 2005, 07:47:35 pm »

I have to say that I agree with Shock Wave in saying that this deck gets smoked by Fish.  I ran this deck at the same BigB tourney that he was talking about (and if you read this, this is Mark, we ID'd in the last round) and went 4-0-2 in the swiss rounds (I'm pretty sure that is the best any of the 4 GiftsOath decks there did), including playing the GiftsOath mirror.  I lost in the quarter-finals to Fish, however.  The deck simply had too many problems for me to address, and I got owned 2-0.  The problem is, they have answers to the weaknesses of the deck.  They can get rid of Colossus, play around Oath, and generally wreck your manabase with their disruption.

I'm going back to playing regular MD Gifts.

As a sidenote: switching out the 2 MD Duress for a Vampiric Tutor and and Echoing Truth works wonders.
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