Card Drawing Quirks

[magus888]

Over the years I have acquired a certain technique or drawing quirk. I grab the card do a quick flick of the risk and raise the card right in front of my face. I look at the card with a blank stare and then place it with the rest of the cards. Has anyone else noticed they do something like this as well? Describe this technique.

[Necrologia]

It took me a moment to realize you meant drawing as in "draw step" as opposed to pen and pencils and the like. The only quirk I have when drawing is I tend to shuffle my hand around immediately afterwards. When drawing more than 1 card I also count them face down on the table first to avoid drawing too many. Game losses for sticky cards is rather poor.

[Whatever Works]

I think this topic has a lot of potential if it can be focused on how people set up the location of there library/graveyard/rfg/etc. At this weekends waterbury I saw extreme variation between all players, and even the difference between pro tour players such as Eli Kassis, Rich Shay, and respected type 1 players like Smennen (and myself cough!) tend to be dramatically different.

I have my library always on my left side, and I have the library always facing directly forword with the cards bottoms always facing me. I have never liked playing with a deck that is faced sideways (I found it akword), and I dont like the deck being upside down, because that made simple processes like brainstorm difficult to execute without having to turn cards in positions the opponent could easy detect them.

My graveyard I start on the direct left of my library, and make sure to extend the graveyard downword (So the names of every card in the graveyard can be visibly seen), and if large enough around the library towards me though eventually I will just clump graveyard in big pile till it becomes crucial again (unless I am playing CS/Dragon/Gifts).

The RFG pile I have seen the most variation of with players, and it tends to get extremely confusing for me sometimes. I personally place RFG cards from FoW etc. face up facing sideways directly in front of my library. This shows them clearly to me and opponent, and they are impossible to confuse with anything that is in play. Other variations I see people do that I personally dont like is having a 2nd pile to the left of the graveyard for RFG cards (This can confuse me), or the RFG pile is put on the complete opposite side of the table, and can be almost completly forgotten about, or mistake for something else.

Know about drawing cards:

I notice when drawing cards I tend to grab the edge of the top card of my library, and carfully slide it onto the table while keeping my grip, and then gently drag it to my hand so my opponent has no chance of seeing it. I then tend to adjust my hand so my opponent cant tell if the card I drew was a land (for example I dont shuffle hand, and then play the land card being the same card I drew).

I am curious to here how/why people set up there library/game setups how they do. Does it make things easier is there any specific strategy involved? I played someone who was using that new gifts/oath deck at waterbury day 2 (who I killed with landstill lol), but he used his library on his right side, and on his direct right he had his deckbox, and then his graveyard. He used his deckbox as a seperator for his library and graveyard, and I guess this gave him more room to opperate his yard, because I dont think we were completely crushed with little space.

Kyle Leith

[Sgt. Pepper]

I usually just draw the card, look at it quickly, put it in my hand, and then move the cards around a little bit. I've seen many people hit the table with their cards. They pick up the card, drag on side of it on the table for a moment and then look at it, making a flickering sound (hard to explain in words). Me and my friends really frown upon that, but sometimes I catch myself doing it when I need a certain card badly. I try supressing it though, since it looks so dumb to me.

As for placing my library, graveyard etc.: it differs. Sometimes my library is on the right, sometimes on the left, Sometimes my graveyard is below my library, sometimes left of it, sometimes its on the right. You get the idea. I really just don't care a lot about my setup as long as I'm able to distingush everything. I do keep the bottom of my card faced to me though, playing it upside down seems awkward to me.

[Necrologia]

I set my board up in the exact same way you do Whatever Works. Library on the left pointing away from me, graveyard stretch out to the left, sideway RFG pile in front. Everything is clear, and impossible to mess up unless someone bumps your table or something. The only other thing I make sure to do when setting up my board is to have my lands closest to me, other perms further away. I kills me when someone plays a card I've never seen and have to ask to see it because it's too far away. Lands rarely have that problem so they can be at max distance from your opponent and still be fine. From what I've seen most people started off with lands in front then switched at some point, only a few stubborn people I know still play lands in front, even when told it irritates other.

[magus888]

I always place my library to the left of me and virtical. My graveyard is below my library and my RGP is to the left of my library.
I have another question:
When tutoring and searching your library do you pick up the entire stack or do you pick up small piles?

[Hi-Val]

Until that Unhinged card with Gotcha that stops people from flicking their cards annoyingly is legal, I'll settle for kicking people in their gifts ungiven when they do it.

Seriously, don't flick your cards.

It doesn't make you cool.

[Machinus]

I'm guilty of card flicking as a nervous habit when I'm playing limited or legacy. It's bad for my cards and can give away information. Flicking Vintage cards is just stupid though, since it can bend the card.

As for drawing cards, I transfer the top card to my playmat face down, and then pick it up and put it into my hand. It lets the opponent know that I am drawing a card, and prevents me from drawing or looking at extra cards, which is a pain for me since my hands are big and the cards are so tiny.

[Jacob Orlove]

The location of my library varies, but it's always between my graveyard and in-play zones. RFG is usually above the library, but if I remove a thousand cards to consult, I may just put the pile off to the side.

I suspect a lot of this will change when I get my new playmat from Liz, though. <3

[Matt]

What is this flciking you guys talk about?

I always have library to the left of in-play zone, graveyard to the left of that, and RFG cards sit on top of my deckbox, wherever I put that. Sideboard sits inside it. VERY clearly not in play.

[Anusien]

I do the Bob Maher drag the card off the top and to my hand for one card, and for multiples I count them face down dealing off the top, then put them into my hand.  Library is to the right of In-Play, and Graveyard is to the right of that with RFG sideways above.  I need to start dealing down to look at the top card, because I've gotten a warning for looking at 2.

[Twaun007]

I believe that this "flicking" that is being talked about is the way an opponent picks his card up off there deck or it could also be the "flicking" sound your cards make as they get shuffled around in your hand.

Personally I do not go for the card flicking techniques. The reason being is that thoughout matches I find that the more nervous your opponent is the more they tend to shuffle or flick there cards in hand. During game play I try not to give any hint to whats in my hand wether it be good or bad. I just try to play cool and calm.   

As for the library its always to the left of the in-play zone with the graveyard left of the library. RFG is always in front of the library and graveyard sittin sideways.

There is probably a thread on this already, but where can players purchase cool playmats. It would be appreciated if some one could hit me up with a link or something. Thanks.

[Pyromaniac]

I always have my deck to the left, facing sideways, with sleeve bottoms to the center of the table. My graveyard is sideways as well just beneath it and the RFG stack is usually located vertically alongside my deck. Occasionally, it's on the other side of the table, to the right, along with my life total pad, pen and some counters/dice for whatever deck I'm playing atm. So, it's a pile of small coinage for my arcbound army atm

[God_Campbell]

Well for me I like to have it set up like this:

Deck is always to the right of me with graveyard just under it then the removed from game pile is up a little and to the right of the deck.
I find I just play it to the right due to my being right handed, so when i draw cards it is draw 1 on to the table then into hand.

[Kieranwolf]

I have my library at my right hand, though I'm a lefty. Grave is above the library, unless I'm playing 'tog, which would place it to the right side for more room. RFG goes above that, most of the time, and I have an odd habit of placing lands above permanents sometimes. I have the card bottoms facing away from me, and draw by lifting the card upright, then placing it in my hand. I have been guilty of shuffling my hand during play, mostly because some local players do that, but otherwise I consider it a sign of weakness.

Also, it doesn't matter what card I just drew fyi - it means at least three damage to you, so DESPAIR!

Muahahahahaha. Ha. Hahah. Hahahahahahah. Hahaha. Hahah. Heehehehehe. Hahaha. Lol.

tilide.

[Dozer]

I have the same setup as most, only on the right side of my playmat: library facing forward (card bottoms to me), graveyard spread downward to see all cards, RFG sideways (with card bottoms to the left) above my graveyard and library. I pile my graveyard once it threatens to fall off my playmat. Once I have had to do that, I am looking through it every second turn or so out of habit; that makes it harder to tell if I drew something graveyard-related, but this is totally coincidental.

My deck box with the sideboard in it I put to the left of my playmat, far away from the other cards. Also, I am meticulous with my card arrangement. I can't abide players whose table is basically a mess, where you can't clearly tell which lands are tapped and whose library is all ruffled with the cards sticking out a little at odd angles or the whole thing standing like the Leaning Tower of Pisa [aside: I had to look up that phrase].

When I draw a card from my library, normally I just take it. Sometimes I do the "Bob Maher"-swish, but rarely so. I do rap on the top of my library to conjure a topdeck when I really need it -- does anyone else do this?

I am definitely guilty of flicking and especially constantly re-arranging my cards in hand. I do so without thinking and have gotten caught by "Stop That" in Unhinged drafts more than once.

I have been guilty of shuffling my hand during play, mostly because some local players do that, but otherwise I consider it a sign of weakness.

Why should it be a sign of weakness? Shuffling or re-arranging your hand hides information from your opponent. Take Brainstorm: I don't want my opponent to know if I put back cards that I just drew or cards I've been holding. Of course, they might come to the wrong conclusions from either situation, but I rather give them no basis at all to draw conclusions.

Dozer

[Twaun007]

Re-arranging your cards in your hand can be done without speed shuffling your cards. It just happens to be easy to read people when there pattern of card re-arrangment changes. I don't think it as a sign of weakness though.

[Kieranwolf]

Why should it be a sign of weakness? Shuffling or re-arranging your hand hides information from your opponent. Take Brainstorm: I don't want my opponent to know if I put back cards that I just drew or cards I've been holding. Of course, they might come to the wrong conclusions from either situation, but I rather give them no basis at all to draw conclusions.

I meant the nervous kind. Actually, I do enjoy rearranging my hand, normally when I wish to keep my opponent in the dark about whether I drew a land or not during my turn. Playing the land before you add it to the hand is giving away too much.

[Buttons]

I do the following:

(I'm right-handed)

I put my Library to my right side, with it facing away from me.  (So, I would read MAGIC:THE GATHERING right side up, with the white orb on top.)

I put my graveyard to the right of that, extending downward with only the cardnames showing.

My lands are doubled up if possible, tripled if needed, but never bigstacked.

My creatures go right above my lands, my artifacts right above my library/graveyard, and my enchantments to the left of my creatures.

I don't move the cards in my hand around at all.  (Old GOOD Poker habit.)  I look at them whenever I draw a card, remember what's in my hand at all times, and play with my hand face-down on the table, spread apart one by one under my LAND region.  (When I'm at 7 or more, I scoop them all up to look at them all.  If I'm playing Combo, there's no way I can't have my hand IN my hands, but aggro and control I can handle.)

Moreover, what's even more peculiar about my wholesetup is that I put my hand, face down, TOWARDS ME, that is, I have my library facing AWAY from me, but my hand facing TOWARDS me, so I can just flip it up and look at the cardname if I really need to (which I usually don't.)

I play with it TOWARDS me, because when I go to play them without looking at them, it's easier to flip them vertically, instead of horizontally, which is how I'd have to do it if I placed them facing away from me.  Also, when I go to place them on the table after originally looking at my opening hand, it's just more natural for the memory order to stay the same, instead of flipping (which I would ALSO have to do if I was going to play them facing away from me.)

It looks extremely intimidating, because:

1)  I'm not looking at my cards.
2)  It looks like I have more stuff in play than I do.
3)  You can see exactly how many cards are in my hand, but not what they are.
4)  When I play stuff, I play it straight from the board to the table, rarely even LOOKING at the card to make sure it's the right one.  (Sometimes I do, though).
5)  I'm staring you down in your face.  Try to hide from me behind your cards.
6)  I can observe everything that goes on, and am not just reading my cards over and over.
7)  I feel like I'm in control, and you can tell.
8)  Sometimes, when I can't lose a game, like when playing against Fish, I'll turn my cards around, so that they're facing my opponent.  Then I'll tap them in the same way he does, so that he can have consistency on his board.  It looks so funny, because it's like they have everything of theirs lined up looking towards them - then they see their opponent's side of the board, and it's doing the same.

As to how I draw:

Since the library is on the right side of me, and my hand is right below my lands, I actually take TWO HANDS, pick up the deck, slide a card off the top with it being angled towards me so that my opponent can't even see what color it is, put my library down, and do a one-finger grip on the bottom of the card so the opponent (but most importantly I) know that I didn't draw two cards.  If I need to draw two cards, I do the EXACT SAME THING TWICE.  (Drawing takes a while with me).

I look at the card AFTER placing it face down beside all my other ones.  (Which, again, is intimidating, because my opponent is like:  "Is he even going to look at it?")  I look, memorize it, and place it face down on the most right-hand side, then, while I'm thinking about what to do, will slide all my cards one position left, so that I have room for another draw.

I always do that during tournament play (mainly as I never play Combo, heh).  For casual games, if there's a limited amount of space (which there rarely is, as we play on the floor), I'll keep my hand in my hand, and put things wherever they need to go, but I always MUST have my library on my right, and my graveyard on the exact right of that.

When playing Stax, I'll have my Mana-Producing Artifacts, like the Moxes and Mana Crypt in my LAND region, and regular artifacts in my CREATURE region. 

I'll then put Creatures a level ABOVE my Creature Region, which I like to call the "HelluvlottaArtifactsSuperCrea tureRegion."

[Ephraim]

I always have my deck to the left, facing sideways, with sleeve bottoms to the center of the table. My graveyard is sideways as well just beneath it and the RFG stack is usually located vertically alongside my deck. Occasionally, it's on the other side of the table, to the right, along with my life total pad, pen and some counters/dice for whatever deck I'm playing atm. So, it's a pile of small coinage for my arcbound army atm

I'm glad that I'm not the only person who does this. It is probably still a little bit sloppy, but this is exactly how I arrange my cards.

[forests failed you]

I like to draw the top card of my library and place it into my hand, with no flicking action at all.  And then I calmly look at my hand and think about my best play, and then make said best play.

Notice there is no flicking, or quick or frantic shuffling of the cards in my hand at any given point.  Then, when I am finished I set my cards on the table face down until I need them again.

People should try this, not only does it make you look really cool; but also, it gives your opponent the impression that you are in control and not a complete nervous spaz.

Honestly, nothing is a bigger tell of a weak or nervous player as quickly shuffling around the cards in one's hand.  I see that action and gleefully think to myself, 'this guy probably sucks,' he can't even sit calmly and think clearly.

Just my observations and perception of card flicking, hand shuffling, and other nervous habits.

[Klep]

There is nothing nervous about my shuffling my hand. I do it at random times, out of habit, and without looking at the cards.  That's the funny thing about muscle memory, it requires no concious thought to perform the relevant actions (this is how people become such fast typers).  When I draw a card, I take it off the top of my library and lightly pull it along the table for a couple inches to make sure I only drew one, then I flip it up into my hand. 

My library is always to my right, with the graveyard behind it and RFG to the side.  Lands in back, men in front (this took forever to change from the old way of lands in front, men in back).

[orgcandman]

People should try this, not only does it make you look really cool; but also, it gives your opponent the impression that you are in control and not a complete nervous spaz.

Honestly, nothing is a bigger tell of a weak or nervous player as quickly shuffling around the cards in one's hand.  I see that action and gleefully think to myself, 'this guy probably sucks,' he can't even sit calmly and think clearly.

Just my observations and perception of card flicking, hand shuffling, and other nervous habits.

I know a few PTQ winners/top8ers who do this. They are not bad players at all. The reason they do this: Habit. It gets to a point where you don't even think about it and you're not even considering that you're shuffling your hand around. As for the card flicking thing, it's something I've never done because I'm not into wrecking my cards.

Then, when I am finished I set my cards on the table face down until I need them again.

THIS is always a mistake. You should always be looking at your cards and have your graveyard in full view so that you can always make the most optimal play. Should your opponent come out with some wrecking ball, there may be a series of intricate plays you can make to thwart them, but not looking at your hand is awful. You can get distracted, not realize that your hand is on the table, and return priority completely by accident.

[forests failed you]

I didn't say that I set the cards down on the table, and then like a dumbass don't remember what is in my hand, and not respond with the appropriate plays.  Its like playing Texas hold 'em, you should be able to know exactly what cards are in your hand at all times without looking at them.  Seriously, how difficult is it to remember what the, at most, seven cards in your hand are?

I used to shuffled my hand when I played.  Then I realized that the more you play around with your hand and do dumb stuff like that, the easier it is, and the greater the chance is that your opponent can at some point get a glimpse of what is in your hand.  So, I stopped.  Not to mention that it just makes one look nervous and out of control when they are quickly and wildly shuffling all the cards in their hand.  Sure, you can shuffle your hand around and make the right plays, whatever.  However, watch a truly great player play cards.  A Michael Jacob, a Sam Gomersaul, a Mark Herberholtz or Kevin Cron.  Part of their intimidation factor is that they look so in control when they are playing.  They are not shuffling and flicking their cards around like rehab patients, and furthermore they have a very calm composure. 

I don't care how you play, what your nervous habits are, or if you flick cards when you draw them.  My personal observation on the subject is that players who don't do all of those ridiculous newb-aliscious things tend to have a much more intimidating presence at the table.  Shuffling your hand stems from one thing, and one thing alone, being anxious.  Same as biting one's finger nails, or drumming your fingers, and then it becomes habit forming.

Look at it this way; 

How stupid would Layne Flack look at the WPT if while he was sitting waiting for his opponent's action, he was frantically shuffling his two card hand back and forth?  That alone was reason enough for me to resolve never to do that ever again.

I'm not saying that it makes you a bad player; I'm saying it makes you look like a nervous and intimidated player. 

[Buttons]

THIS is always a mistake. You should always be looking at your cards and have your graveyard in full view so that you can always make the most optimal play. Should your opponent come out with some wrecking ball, there may be a series of intricate plays you can make to thwart them, but not looking at your hand is awful. You can get distracted, not realize that your hand is on the table, and return priority completely by accident.

I put my hand down on the table, spread apart one by one, so that my opponent can see how many cards are in my hand.  I usually just fold my hands and watch them play, always knowing what is in my hand.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you that this is ALWAYS a mistake.  I have the best short term memory out of any person I know, and have won many-a-chess-game blindfolded.  I can always remember exactly what is in my hand, and if I need to check the exact wording on something, I can just scoop my hand up and look at the cards.

I can also do it to make them THINK I have a FoW when I don't.  It's a severe advantage in my favor to play the way I do.

However, for most people, it would be a mistake all the time.

Also, BTW, I forgot:

My RemovedFromGame pile is usually on top of my deckbox, (with my SB inside it) or far off to the left, face-down.

[orgcandman]

...nothing is a bigger tell of a weak or nervous player...I see that action and gleefully think to myself, 'this guy probably sucks,' he can't even sit calmly and think clearly.

I'm not saying that it makes you a bad player; I'm saying it makes you look like a nervous and intimidated player.

sucking == bad, correct? Or are we using different definitions?

Muscle reflexes are just that, reflexes. I used to randomly fidget with my permanents. I was paying attention to the game, I wasn't altering their state, just their location, AND I was able to make the correct plays. I stopped mostly because I had to actively take conscious time to decide NOT to.

Now, I shuffle my hand around a lot, but it's not because I'm nervous. I match different cards together and put them in an order whereby I can see just what would happen should I play them differently. I also count my hand, so when my opponent asks, or it's end of turn, or I have an active library, or I'm sitting on Thoughts of Ruin/whatever I'll be able to make the play quicker than my opponent. The faster I can play, the faster my opponent will feel like he/she has to play, and the more likely they are to make a mistake.

I RESENT being called "newb-aliscious" or a "weak player" or being terrible at all, as I feel that I'm MORE than competant when it comes to playing.

-Aaron

[forests failed you]

Clearly, not all players who shuffle their hands are awful.  Perhaps you are a fantastic player who just so happens to shuffle his hand.  If that is the case, then I'm very happy for you.  All I'm saying is that in general players who shuffle their hands do it because they are any combination of anxious, nervous and excited.

I've played a lot of cards in my life, and if poker has taught me anything, it is to read people.   If my opponent were quickly shuffling his cards around in his hand, I might take it as a tell.  With all given information going through my mind, the look on my opponent's face, shuffling, gestures, et cetera, it might influence me to make one play over another. 

Also, I am fairly known for trying to get tells off people during a match.  If my opponent were quickly shuffling his cards around and looking nervous I might do something like say: "Could you please keep your hand up, you are showing me all your cards," or ask something like; "Are you alright, you look really nervous?"  Just to throw an opponent off.  The majority of the time, if you are playing an opponent who is wildly shuffling the cards in their hand, believe it or not, it actually throws them off their game.  Ask my round four opponent at GenCon, he was a good by excitable player, and I completely Jedi Mind Tricked him into making the wrong plays and losing two games where I was dead on the board. 

Its not as big of a deal in Magic as it is in Poker, but it can make a difference.  I prefer to give my opponent as little to read on me as possible, so I don't do that stuff.

I was being general.  And in general my experience has shown me that players who shuffle the cards in their hands around during the entire match and act fidgety tend to be either bad and/or easier to read and throw off than players who don't.  Take it for what it is worth.  I've never heard of you before, I've never played against you before, I can't comment on you as an individual.  I'm sure you are a perfectly great player that just so happens to shuffle the cards in his hand.  Whatever, cool.  I could really care less about what you do when you play the game.  But to be completely honest with you, if you sat down across the table from me shuffling your hand and moving the cards in play around, my first thought would probably not be... "This guy is a champion."  Perhaps that is your style, "make them think you are weak when you are strong."  If what you are doing is working, keep doing it!

However, I would advise players not to do the shuffling stuff, because honestly there is no reason to, nothing good can actually come of it, and you open yourself up to people who know how to exploit it.  Perhaps, some of you guys who shuffle cannot be thrown off your game no matter what.  Great, how lucky for you!  I don't care, I was just sharing some person insights with you guys.  I apologize if I offeneded anyone in particular, and I was not talking about anyone specific when I made recent comments.

But one last thing:

On the rare occasion that there is a cute girl watching the match, if she isn't completely turned off by card players (which she probably is), she'd probably be much more likely to think a guy was a complete joke if he were fidgiting and shuffling his cards like a crazy person.  I'm just throwing that out there, it isn't likely to come up, but you never know.  I haven't seen a banding creature played in six years, but I still know how it works.  It never hurts to be safe!  I always try to keep one thing in mind when I do stuff...  Would attractive members of the opposite sex think I look stupid doing this, and if yes, is it really worth it?

[Vegeta2711]

Generalizations and stereotypes are the new tech!

[Anusien]

I keep all my cards in my hand in the order I drew them, so my opponent can know I'm fearless and in control because I'm not afraid to give off tells.

[nataz]

It never hurts to be safe!  I always try to keep one thing in mind when I do stuff...  Would attractive members of the opposite sex think I look stupid doing this, and if yes, is it really worth it?

hmmm, would a girl want

A) a person who is more in control of his outward emotions, and possibly a great magic player

or

B) A guy obviously good with his hands

heh, you make the call  
*wink*

-huggs and kisses