New secret tech from the waterbury team champions

[Juggernaut GO]

I know I have played mana drain about 3 times ever, so I figure I would give up the proxy workshops for a while and joing the rest of the type 1 world and play some broken blue spells.  Well, not many people consider ophidian broken, but in today's metagame, it HOUSES everything.  So without further ado, USA PHID


mana:
2 islands
3 tundras
4 volcanic islands
4 polluted deltas
1 flooded strand
1 strip mine
2 wastelands
1 library of alexandria
1 mishra's factory
1 mox pearl
1 mox emerald
1 mox sapphire
1 mox jet
1 mox ruby
1 sol ring
1 black lotus

the uber creature base:
1 viashino heretic
2 gorilla shaman
4 ophidians
3 meddling mages

other spells:
1 time walk
1 ancestral recall
1 mystical tutor
1 crucible of worlds
3 swords to plowshares
1 pithing needle
4 mana drains
3 mana leaks
4 force of wills
4 deep analysis
1 balance


side:
4 energy fluxs
3 REB's
2 BEB's
2 null rods
2 annul's
2 tormod's crypt

Ok, laugh no more after reading the list.  No brainstorm !!!! How can you play control without brainstorm?   answer:because brainstorm is for waffle eating pussies that's why.  Real men don't play a card that nets you 0.  This deck absolutely houses any of the gifts builds going around.  If you ever give up a game to a gifts ungiven deck, you either got land screwed, or you got land screwed.

Meddling mage handle's yawg will & tinker, strip/waste handles their crappy mana base while they dig desperately for a bounce spell to deal with mages.  Pithing needle and heretic handle the only other win condition in goblin charlbelcher.

This deck generates so much card advantage, your opponant can never catch up.  Now is the perfect time to play a slower control deck in vintage.  Combo  hasn't bothered to rear its head any time recently.  Ophidian owns any fool  crazy enough to actually play a workshop against you.  And maindeck heretic makes them cry when they take 3 damage after you blow up their poor crucibles.

Even DAVE FEINSTEIN is endorsing ophidian !!!!  On a side note, DAVE FEINSTEIN was sighted playing none other then R/G beats in an extended tournament this weekend, 4-1 !!!!!!!  WTG kird ape !!!

Well, if you don't believe me, hit this deck up on workstation, play a few games against your friends, and watch them laugh when you resolve ophidian after ophidian and they just end up crying when you counter every spell they cast.

we innovate so bad!

[Greenebean]

It looks very interesting, but don't give up the proxied workshops I like slow control-style decks, they make you feel all warm inside. I would try this out, but I won a tourney today with gifts oath so now I must explore the greatness that is Meandeck Gifts Oath. But very nice build, and I like the way its control, but aggressive at the same time, i.e. if you get cruicible/strip lock on bad manabases (5c dragon, and gifts :lol:) Keep up the good work, and I do not remember if I posted in your other thread, congrats on waterbury!

[VarienTanafres]

ok, i saw this build today while I was at Beanie today, played Hatch b/c he was playtesting it when he saw Jigglypuff playing it. 4-1 with me using Oath. Why use Mana Leak over a plain 'ol counterspell? Later in the game (if you don't have Crucible/Strip lock) it'll be a dead card, minus pitch to Force.
What answer would you have against come random hate deck? I.E.- Back to Basics, Red/Green Beats? It's slower and not very powerful creature wise. Is it more directed towards decks like Meandeck Gifts and TPS. I'd be more interested in hearing more playtesting results.

[Methuselahn]

Why use Mana Leak over a plain 'ol counterspell? Later in the game (if you don't have Crucible/Strip lock) it'll be a dead card, minus pitch to Force.

Because of first turn Mox, Island instead of needing 2 blue for Counterspell. 

[Nastaboi]

How has Deep Analysis been for you? You have no ways other than EOT discard and playing it to get one in your grave. Other decks I have seen utilizing it before have had Intuition, Bazaar, Mongel or some other way to get one into your grave to cast it cheap early. Sure it is nice to cast one from Drain mana, but so is Phid - or even more so. Outside Drain, it remains 4cc sorcery while you want to keep your counter mana open. Gifts deck will Drain it and happily cast its namesake of the mana, while being able to cast their drawer at instant speed. TFK or even ninja might be better, but what do I know?

[rakso]

I just came from today's local tourney, placing third. The Top 8 consisted of me with SSB-style Gifts, Meandeck Gifts, a Gifts variant with more control elements thrown in to dodge local budget player hate, Control Slaver, Oath, FCG, Doomsday, and a budget Suicide Black piloted by the store owner's girlfriend.

The bizarre thing is that the four control players and the combo player all huddled before Top 8 and asked how they thought they would do against Suicide with Null Rod and Planar Void in the side. She had this crazy propensity for drawing Dark Ritual-Duress-Hymn/Therapy or double Dark Ritual all day long, and even forced a draw against me in the second-to-the-last round of the Swiss.

We were all seriously wary of losing to a disruption-heavy hand then not being able to stop Null Rod.

I was wondering if, given the trend now to Gifts decks loaded with artifact mana, the next metagame shift might include aggro-control with Null Rod. Your board is exactly what most local players here have against control, particularly Slaver and Gifts.

[Juggernaut GO]

It would take a lot of bad luck to lose any match against any gifts ungiven based deck with this build.  And deep analysis is the shit.  However, since this deck sets up slow, it would have  a hard time with storm combo and a pile like 2 land belcher, but you need to get unlucky to get paired with them at the top tables anyway.

[VarienTanafres]

Winning with bad cards is what we're all about !

heh, then why isn't Goblin Trenches in the deck?!?! LoL

Because of first turn Mox, Island instead of needing 2 blue for Counterspell. 

point well taken. I'd consider using Daze over Leak, but then 3 mana is better then 1 and returning blue land to your hand.

Would you consider maindecking Null Rod?

I've been using Null Rod as a side with my Oath deck. It's not the same as USA Phid, but after using it against Gifts, it rarely does much to stop gifts. A good player can work around the Null Rod most of the time, so as it may see more play, I don't think it'll change things all that significantly.

[MoxMonkey]

I think the deck looks good but I would never want to use Deep Analysis as my Draw power for a deck.  Is there any other Draw card that could replace Deep?

[TheWayOfNoWay]

Would you at least consider replacing one of the Deep Analysis with a Fact or Fiction? The remaining 3 Deep Analysis in the deck would make pile-making more difficult.

[yespuhyren]

The deck is really tight.  I played travis on workstation, and it was a great deck.  It just sucked that

A) He kept hitting 1 of his 2 STP in his opening hand EVERY GAME
B) Workstation kept kicking me out, and it finally had a good streak, and then it just blew up

we gotta play again man, it was some good games

[Juggernaut GO]

Would you at least consider replacing one of the Deep Analysis with a Fact or Fiction? The remaining 3 Deep Analysis in the deck would make pile-making more difficult.

I thought about this for  a while and decided just to not run FoF.  This deck has no way to get back crap from the grave.  So I would hate to see a FoF pile that looks something like   crucible/time walk/balance,  Losing the 1 of good answers is just unacceptable for the deck to win.  I have edited the list a bit after testing online most the weekend to have

-1 deep anal
-1 gorilla shaman
-1 volcanic island
+1 mana leak
+1 phyrxian furnace
+1 mishra's factory

I definitely wanted 4 mana leaks after initial testing.  Furnace is really a meta call I guess, but really it gives you something to do when you aren't countering spells on their turn.  Factory is just another threat in a threat-light deck.  the 4th red source wasnt really too important.  More then anything, going first turn volcanic bluffs people into thinking your running CS or gifts, which could possibly be advantageous.

Who knows, we'll see how it does this weekend, but no matter what it will be fun as hell to play !

[Jacob Orlove]

Thread cleaned.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Is there a particular reason why you're not using Jitte?  It seems like it would be strong as a sink for Drain mana and as a secondary way to deal with other aggro-control builds.

[Moxlotus]

Jitte+a few creatures=combo!!!

Phids don't get counters because they don't do damage if you draw.

[AmbivalentDuck]

*shrug* I was thinking more options against blockers and a quicker kill when it's relevent.  It might allow it to more easily take on the beatdown role against other aggro decks.  Whether or not that's useful...I don't know.  I've never used Drain in an aggro-control deck. 

[Ufactor]

Smmenen's Ophidian deck owns this pile.  Get better by playing mono-u.

[Juggernaut GO]

Smmenen's Ophidian deck owns this pile.  Get better by playing mono-u.

wow, that's so true.  I love to play a deck that has no answer to a juggernaut once it resolves.  Mono blue is for bitches.

[JigglyPuff]

Smmenen's Ophidian deck owns this pile. Get better by playing mono-u.

Can't we all just be nice...muc is for bitches.(i guess)....


well it does run a cunning wish that finds rebuild...I guess tha counts as an answer....


Anyway...this (I believe) will be making an appearence at some of the Tourney's around New England and will be played by the best players around..(Team Nuts and Staff Off twice...duh..)...but i think if im gonna make the build i should probably be like hatcher and run disrupt... ...jk...

just a couple of days till the Samite's tourney..(where we'll be filling out 2-0 matchslips)...

any other secret tech form anyone else who inovates bad.?? (which isn't md cause i guess they're Pro..So ive heard...)

[Gabethebabe]

This new secret deck tech is a pile. I mean, jeez, if you want to play a UWR control deck, be my guest, but then come up with a decklist that doesn´t suck royally.
Balance in a deck that runs 10 creatures. Since when is this good?
Random artifacts like Pithing Needle and Crucible without ways to find them other then drawing. No ways to get rid of them when you´re drawing them and don´t want to?
4 Deep Analysis and no FoF??
One Mishra´s Factory? Since when is this card restricted?
How good is Mystical Tutor in this deck? What are your broken targets?

Not playing brainstorm in a deck that runs so many dead cards against various matchups is just crazy.

This deck just...., jee, WTF am I doing here?

*leaves*

[fromm2020]

standstill should be the main draw

[JigglyPuff]

standstill should be the main draw

no....no it shouldn't be.....this deck answers the threats you out out...if you have a threat on the board then why would i let you draw three cards while i answer your threat........

this is not a fish build....welll maybe it is but its not the traditional build...its more like 4cc weenie

[VarienTanafres]

I have already seen this deck in play against Oath and Gifts. I've run a few test trials of the deck myself and it loses tempo. *shrugs* i'm called uba noob for a reason, but this deck needs a lil something more. I know you guys like to win with bad cards, but don't you think you get something semi-broken in there?
I mean, it's great if you play some deck that meddling mage can shut down. if you don't get instant control, this deck really isn't all that great.
I'll have to playtest against it more with different types of decks I suppose.

[JigglyPuff]

I've run a few test trials of the deck myself and it loses tempo. . I know you guys like to win with bad cards, but don't you think you get something semi-broken in there?
I mean, it's great if you play some deck that meddling mage can shut down. if you don't get instant control, this deck really isn't all that great.
I'll have to playtest against it more with different types of decks I suppose.

not trying to be a jackass but you have no idea what the hell you're talking about...when did you build this? you said you wnet 4-1 against it but c'mon? 1st and 2nd turn tinker with double force back up?? what kind of game is that??i could see if you'n travis played 25 games but u only played maybe 4-6...

*shrugs* i'm called uba noob for a reason,

and i'm the only one that ever called u that!

[VarienTanafres]

not trying to be a jackass but you have no idea what the hell you're talking about...when did you build this? you said you wnet 4-1 against it but c'mon? 1st and 2nd turn tinker with double force back up?? what kind of game is that??i could see if you'n travis played 25 games but u only played maybe 4-6...

and i'm the only one that ever called u that!

A) I built it the day after I played agianst it there, just to see what the hype was about.
B) I only tinkered once in the games I played with Oath, with a double force back up.
C) As I said, I should playtest some more with different decks as well.
D) You are the only one and you also stated that was my new nickname, LoL. I'm just pronouncing the name you've given me.
E) Your not a jackass, I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm here to have that corrected.

I'll probably be there tonight, so I'm sure I'll see more of this deck. THerefore, having a better insight on the deck.

[JigglyPuff]

good....you'll be my warm up for the night.....

[Hi-Val]

Smmenen's Ophidian deck owns this pile.  Get better by playing mono-u.

wow, that's so true.  I love to play a deck that has no answer to a juggernaut once it resolves.  Mono blue is for bitches.

Not quite as true as you might think. Monoblue has 16 counters and 2 Morphlings. Juggernaut takes 5 turns to kill an opponent. It comes out on turn 2 at times, sometimes later. Monoblue can either counter it when it hits, or if that's not an option, it can dig until it finds Morphling and turbo that guy out. This is all just looking at game 1 as well. Postboard, it has Energy Flux and Control Magic.

[VarienTanafres]

good....you'll be my warm up for the night.....

alright, it's on like Donkey Kong!Prolly be there around 6-7ish b/c I have a few things to do first.

[Hatchman]

Well First of All I did NOT have the same list as Travis and Second I DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT HAVE THE LUCK WITH THIS DECK THAT TRAV DOES!!!! That said I will continue to make hate decks that make all of the top decks cry in my wake!! If I can top 16 at waterbury with a list that had Drain AND Wretch I can make any hate deck Work. I like to pride myself on knowing how to beat and tech against the best decks in the meta game in the North east. I always play some jank that finds its way to either the top 8 or VERY close I may have one of the most 9th/10th place finishes in the North East:) Damn Workshop aggro!!! 

I will say that If you dont like this build dont make it,you can just lose to it insted!! Travis has a habbit of taking really BAD Cards(Adakar Waste) and winning black lotus' with it!! That will be shown when the 9th-16th get a play mat with MINDS EYE on it. 

So with that said...... I dont ever get loud I don really talk that much trash, but My team my not have a lot of power hell we dont even have alot of dual lands but We can make some good Decks with bad cards and beat you people who spend WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY too much time and money on your cards!!!!!

Whewwww had to get it off My Chest!!  Sorry!!

Hatch

[VarienTanafres]

I'll find out what this secret tech is from Trav tmo, we made plans to play a match so I can at least see what the deck is all about since he's the one behind it. So if I have anything else to say about the deck, whether an opinion or a fact, I'll say at the exchange. We no's likes haters.