Where the hell did these come from!?

[cryolyte]

I could see someone using these if they can pass for the real thing under a cursory glance. Someone who played in an area where they don't allow proxies, for instance. Sure they could be detectable by using a magnifying glass, but even in a deck check, if it looks legit no one's going to take the time to get a magnifying glass.

EDIT: of course, they would play them unsleeved for a while to mark them up a bit. Mint power is scrutinized a bit more I would think.

[oldbsturgeon]

update on the www.perfectpower9.com  proxies
i received my ebay auction i won from him today, and i must say that we should not worry about these. i believe that they are printed on a erased card or something, but the print quality still isnt very high. though it looks okay, you can immediately tell it is fake.
also i guess someone raised a fuss on ebay because he is no longer a registered user.
there really isnt much reason to put up a scan, because as already stated, it doesnt look that believable.

[Buttons]

What's so fake about them?  Do you think you could post a detailed scan of it, just so we can see what to look for?

I, personally, don't want to get ripped by someone buying one of these things and trying to pass it off as legit.  Any scans and information would be helpful to the entire community, sturgeon.

Thanks for your help already.

[oldbsturgeon]

i dont have a scanner here but will do it at work tomorrow hopefully. the text is fuzzy especially the artist name and the overall quality isnt believable. also since the front was obviously removed via eraser or something, the glossy finish is gone and the card has a dry matte finish feel to it.
ill see what i can do about a picture tomorrow.

[Buttons]

Thanks man.  You're awesome.  Let us know where we can find the picture at.

It's good to hear that it's not believable.

[ReAnimator]

a guy at SCG Rochester had a set of these they looked cool but obv. not real up close. so as far as printing something like foil welders it is unlikely. I think these were sold originally as an amusing/fun thing not with the intention to dupe people.

If you peel/wipe an old foil card so it is just foil you can send it through some home inkjet printers, when it comes out the ink will be just sitting on top (it doesn't soak or fuse in to the paper) then you can either use a hair dryer to make the ink set or just wait for 10 hours or so.

At our last tournament there was a friend of mine who had proxied Pithing Needles like this except that he replaced the art with the pic of Needle man from the Mega Man video games, they were sweet and the TO let him use them (since they feel and are real cards)

[lizzish]

Though the process that makes these cards is fairly common practice now, when these originally came out about 2 years ago, the store in Maryland that was distributing them lost their 'premier store' status, and all higher level events (GPT's, and JSS's), because they aren't more than 20% different they are illegal. The reason that gamingetc tokens are legal because they are different enough from Magic cards that a clear difference can be seen. I expect that the website that is selling that stuff will recieve some sort of cease and desist order now that the boys at Wizards are on top of it.

Does this mean that since the proxies I do are clearly distinguishable from real cards, I can legally sell them? If so, yays!

[oldbsturgeon]

maybe im not smart enough to put a picture on here but i really cant figure out how to. on another note, while the card appears fake on magnified inspection it seems to have to patented wizards print style, though it looks blurry in regular view.
someone help me with the picture. i see the insert picture tab but i dont know how to do it.

[Dozer]

You need to upload the pic somewhere to the 'net and the put the web adress in the [img]-Tags. I don't think you can upload it directly, but I might be wrong.

If you don't find a pic hosting service, PM me. I am interested in the scan myself, so I can possibly provide some space.

Dozer

[Tha Gunslinga]

Just use photobucket.com; that's what I've used to host my pics, and it works fine for me.

[xthexpunisherx]

Though the process that makes these cards is fairly common practice now, when these originally came out about 2 years ago, the store in Maryland that was distributing them lost their 'premier store' status, and all higher level events (GPT's, and JSS's), because they aren't more than 20% different they are illegal. The reason that gamingetc tokens are legal because they are different enough from Magic cards that a clear difference can be seen. I expect that the website that is selling that stuff will recieve some sort of cease and desist order now that the boys at Wizards are on top of it.

Does this mean that since the proxies I do are clearly distinguishable from real cards, I can legally sell them? If so, yays!

You have to make sure the pictures arn't copyrighted by either the artists or WotC.  Thats why the Gametec proxies use different art.

[Jacob Orlove]

Does this mean that since the proxies I do are clearly distinguishable from real cards, I can legally sell them? If so, yays!

You have to make sure the pictures arn't copyrighted by either the artists or WotC.  Thats why the Gametec proxies use different art.

Given that she draws them herself, I'd say she's in the clear. As long as they say "Lotus" or "Ruby" rather than "Black Lotus" or "Mox Ruby" it should be totally legal. Just don't use the mana symbols or anything else that's copyrighted.

[vartemis]

Does this mean that since the proxies I do are clearly distinguishable from real cards, I can legally sell them? If so, yays!

You have to make sure the pictures arn't copyrighted by either the artists or WotC.  Thats why the Gametec proxies use different art.

Given that she draws them herself, I'd say she's in the clear. As long as they say "Lotus" or "Ruby" rather than "Black Lotus" or "Mox Ruby" it should be totally legal. Just don't use the mana symbols or anything else that's copyrighted.

As well you would not be able to use erased or peeled cards as the back art is still copywritten by WOTC.

j

[Dozer]

As well you would not be able to use erased or peeled cards as the back art is still copywritten by WOTC.

But you don't replicate it. You are allowed to sell Magic cards with alterations on them; why should you not be allowed to blank cards and sell them? Since copyright infringement usually needs some imitation or forgery process to happen, it shouldn't apply in the case of blank cards with proxy drawing on it. Then again, I'm no expert or lawyer... but it doesn't make sense to call in your copy-rights when someone is using the original cards.

Dozer

[vartemis]

As well you would not be able to use erased or peeled cards as the back art is still copywritten by WOTC.

But you don't replicate it. You are allowed to sell Magic cards with alterations on them; why should you not be allowed to blank cards and sell them? Since copyright infringement usually needs some imitation or forgery process to happen, it shouldn't apply in the case of blank cards with proxy drawing on it. Then again, I'm no expert or lawyer... but it doesn't make sense to call in your copy-rights when someone is using the original cards.

Dozer

You could be right, but to me it seems like you are taking someone else's product and passing it off as your own.  To me, altering a card still leaves the initial card underneath intact, but peeling a card and putting new artwork on it isn't right.  The MTG logo is copywritten, so wouldn't it be copyright infringement to sell it as your own product?

But to make it clear,  I'm not saying don't do it.  I have never seen Liz's cards, but I will take everyone's word that they are sweet.  All I'm saying is try and keep it under the radar. I make my own proxies by peeling foils.  I am now trying to find a decent holofoil to make my foil cards again.  I give them away, or trade for other stuff.  I think its just cool to see other people using my stuff.  And for all those people who complain about thickness issues... spray adhesive adds virtually nothing to the thickness.  I have tested people all the time to tell my proxies from real cards.  They cant from the backside.

You all should have seen my counterspell by now, and here is a dark ritual i was trying out with the new cleaned up 7th frames (thanks for the idea JDizzle), and the last one is a pic I had on one of my comics that I had to use.  I am going to try and foil it as I think the red and yellow will come out nicely.


Can someone post some of Liz's cards?  I would love to see them.

j

[Dozer]

That's a hot textless Dark Ritual! Bram, beware... your Batman Rituals have competition.

Vartemis, did you paint that skull yourself? If not, there's some copyright infringement right there... :p

Seeing Liz's cards should be hot. Her lj-link doesn't work for me, so if someone could show us how hot those nearly naked anime girls really are, that'd be sweet.

Also, we're still waiting for those forged power.

[oldbsturgeon]

okay here is a link to a picture on photobucket


what i want to point out to people are some things that might not seem obvious through the picture. notice on the right bottom side, you can see what appears to be a light line going up from the bottom through the text box and into the picture. it is not a printing error but rather a line from the method to remove the card face such as an eraser. this would mean the person applied more force to this area and it is uneven.
also look at the text, especially the dark typed illustrator, card type,and card name. if you can compare them to your own power or older cards and you will notice some blurriness.
HOWEVER this guy is good and the printing quality is amazing. i put it under a magnifier and it has the same print pattern as real cards. i have never seen a fake like this.
the real way to tell it is fake is to see it in person and notice the erasure marks and how it feels.
because there is no glossy front anymore, its kind of dry and satin feeling now.

[vartemis]

That's a hot textless Dark Ritual! Bram, beware... your Batman Rituals have competition.

Vartemis, did you paint that skull yourself? If not, there's some copyright infringement right there... :p

Seeing Liz's cards should be hot. Her lj-link doesn't work for me, so if someone could show us how hot those nearly naked anime girls really are, that'd be sweet.

Also, we're still waiting for those forged power.

Nope.  Thats the front cover to the new Ghost Rider #2.  I know its copyright infringement, but I'm not gonna sell it.  I have been working on creating a new set of power using the new redone pics.  The Lotus and Twister came out well, but I can't get a decent pic of the new Ancestral.  I tried bending the WOTC pic in Photoshop, but it comes out too grainy. I emailed Chang to see if he could send me a scan, but unfortunately I haven't heard back.

oh well.

What PerfectPower9 should have done with the card  is get rid of the text and retype it on, thereby fixing the grainyness. They should use peeled foils and "goo-b-gone" to get rid of the glue.  Then just give it a little flat gloss spray to seal/proctect the ink.  Oops... i think I've said too much

j

[Eandori]

Looks like Perfect Power 9 has a new ebay account and he's selling his illegal proxies again.

http://cgi.ebay.com/mtg-PP9-Unlimited-mox-sapphire_W0QQitemZ8725165499QQcategoryZ19115QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem