December 1

[Machinus]

It's 10 days away and the talk hasn't started. This is usually a good sign for whatever formats are involved.

Which cards do you think are going to come off/be added to the lists?

[Komatteru]

Restricted:
Mana Drain
Mishra's Workshop
Joblin Welder
Island

Unrestricted:
Black Lotus
Dark Ritual

 

I mean, no changes yo.

[Matt]

There will of course be no changes.

[nataz]

because its fun to be different

lackey banned in Legacy!

[Godder]

Time Vault banned in Legacy, Something in Vintage unrestricted, so I voted both.

[Demonic Attorney]

Legacy:  Goblin Lackey and Time Vault

Vintage:  Maybe, possibly, perhaps a chance of Grim Tutor getting restricted.

[Juggernaut GO]

Legacy:  Goblin Lackey and Time Vault

Just when I thought they couldn't possibly make the format any more un-interesting to play...
they may as well just call legacy  "broke bitch vintage where budget type 1 decks from 1997 are actually played"
but that would be way too long of a title, it would never fit on the grand prix banner.  They should just reprint power and give everyone a real format to play in, We see how all the professionals did when they tried type 1 last rochester, all of 1 made top 8.

Who really cares about the secondary market on type 1 cards anyway, I would be willing to lose a $2000 investement on power if it meant vintage would become a pro tour format upon all the reprinting.  Who's to say the prices would drop more then 50% on alpha and beta power, those cards would still be super rare and fetch a price to collectors, but I ramble, this is something that would never happen.

[Kasuras]

Restricted:
Mana Drain
Mishra's Workshop
Joblin Welder
Island

Unrestricted:
Black Lotus
Dark Ritual

 

I mean, no changes yo.

It hasn't been too long ago that Island was restricted.. Look at the old keep0r decks!

Think something will be unrestricted in T1, Kowal wrote an article of which just a few got unrestricted. Think they're doing something to goblins in Legacy.

[MarkPharaoh]

Vault banned.

[knickers]

I don't think Goblin Lackey, or Time Vault will get restricted/banned yet ... perhaps at the next ban/restriction time?
I think there needs to be more tournament results to go by ...

[Bram]

Don't you guys think that card need to at least perform somwhere before getting the axe? Time Vault meets....let's see, oh, ZERO if the criteria for restriction. The days of 'random' restrictions are come and gone...

[LizardCZ]

Well, it seems that in Legacy they ban cards not only for it's power but also for it's money value (Illusionary Mask?), so if an expensive card like Time Vault get so much hype and people everywhere are complaining about it, they might go and ban the card.

Legacy is not intended to be an elitist format, so a deck that work around a 100 US$ card is not acceptable, even if the deck hasn't made any great perform in tournaments. Also, Wizards' Legacy tournaments are no proxy, and we all know what that means.

There are other powerful and expensive cards that might get a ban someday, like Moat and Chains of Mephistopheles, not for being extremely powerful but for being extremely hard to find or expensive, but for now none of them have get so much hype as Time Vault has.

[Bram]

Legacy is not intended to be an elitist format, so a deck that work around a 100 US$ card is not acceptable, even if the deck hasn't made any great perform in tournaments.

That's just silly. The only reason to ban a card over its price is if not enough competitive players can realistically get the copies they want. If that card performs subpar, then there's no reason for competitive players to want to buy it en masse. Now if, say, FlameVault dominated (or appeared in...) Philly T8, I'd have said OK....

[SpencerForHire]

Unfortunately, I think enough people have bitch and moaned that Lackey will indeed get the axe, either him or ringleader.  I was also thinking that an unrestriction may occur.  Cross your fingers all!

[Pyromaniac]

Legacy is not intended to be an elitist format, so a deck that work around a 100 US$ card is not acceptable, even if the deck hasn't made any great perform in tournaments.

That's just silly. The only reason to ban a card over its price is if not enough competitive players can realistically get the copies they want. If that card performs subpar, then there's no reason for competitive players to want to buy it en masse. Now if, say, FlameVault dominated (or appeared in...) Philly T8, I'd have said OK....

Bram, you have to remember that, realistically, any deck with Mask in it would face a really, REALLY hard road ahead, seeing everyone plays a billion creatures destruction cards, WAY more then in Vintage. Yet, Mask is banned beforehand for most likely, no other reason then it's value.

[Milton]

Will they restrict Gifts?

[Matt]

Lackey is the only thing even remotely likely and I give that about a 15% chance of happening. NO ONE is calling for Vault - in fact most people are proclaiming FlameVault dead (rather prematurely in my opinion). And I have not herad any of the usual chatter that precedes a Vintage B&R alteration.

[Klep]

Unfortunately, I think enough people have bitch and moaned that Lackey will indeed get the axe, either him or ringleader.  I was also thinking that an unrestriction may occur.  Cross your fingers all!

I do not think so at all.  I've seen real bitchfests about restrictions, like the entire year people were crying out for Workshop to get hit, and nothing came of it.  There has not been nearly sufficient complaining from the Legacy community to get Wizards to consider banning Lackey, and Goblins certainly did not perform well enough to merit a banning on those merits.  While I think that ultimately banning Lackey may become necessary at some point in time, that point is most definitely not now.

[LizardCZ]

Being one win less from making Top 8 in a Pro Tour doesn't look like a subpar performing to me. Not every deck can have a show in a Top 8, and that doesn't mean the deck is not good. Also, a deck that can win by only casting two spells (that have a nice curve) in the entire game should have some consideration.

I'm not saying that Time Vault should get banned this December 1. There are not many people with a playset of Time Vault, and a great showing of FlameVault in a tournament might be one or two decks in a Top8. FlameVault will never be a dominating deck in Legacy due to its relative high price value; the same happen in Type 1 with UbaStax (at least until 15+ proxies are allowed). If Time Vault ever get banned in Legacy, it wont be banned because it's a dominant card, there wont be enough of them to infest a tournament the way goblins are doing now.

Bram, you have to remember that, realistically, any deck with Mask in it would face a really, REALLY hard road ahead, seeing everyone plays a billion creatures destruction cards, WAY more then in Vintage. Yet, Mask is banned beforehand for most likely, no other reason then it's value.

Sure, that is. If Wizards don't ban cards due to value reasons, then they should unban Illusionary Mask. A 12/12 is a huge beating, but it is a lot more easy to disrupt. Many of the creature hate kill it (from StP to some Edict; even a Night of Souls' Betrayal) and it has a low converted mana cost (Overload, Smother, Engineered Explosives and Powder Keg comes to mind)

[Lunar]

I dont think anything will happen in either, but if anything were to go I would have to guess time vault in legacy ONLY for price restrictions (which I still dont think will happen)

I really like T1 right now, even though stax is doing pretty hot at some of the bigger tournies, the format seems pretty sweet to me with a little handful of decks that can perform well at any given tourney, without having too much diversity and having totally random metas.

[nataz]

  I was also thinking that an unrestriction may occur.

land tax?

Will they restrict Gifts?

I never even really considered that, but I suppose its a possibility

[Jacob Orlove]

Hopefully Voltaic Key will get unrestricted in Vintage.

[Machinus]

I was also thinking that an unrestriction may occur.

land tax?

Oh man I hope so. Land tax would be sweet. I think its more likely that the DCI will give us back cards instead of taking them away, but I don't think anything is going to happen just yet.

[Smmenen]

Land Tax isn't restricted.

[Moxlotus]

I voted neither, but did not take into consideration unrestrictions/unbannings.

Key will probably be unbanned.  It will keep with the tradition of unrestricting 1 shitty card that nobody will play with anyways per announcement.

[Machinus]

Land Tax isn't restricted.

You know this poll is about two formats right?

[Godder]

Land Tax isn't restricted.

Not in Vintage, but it's banned in Legacy (which is what he meant, I think). I said Time Vault because of its cost, similar to Illusionary Mask - the deck doesn't seem broken, but it does seem viable. Goblins has a Fundamental Turn of 4, which hardly seems broken in Legacy.

[Smmenen]

Land Tax isn't restricted.

You know this poll is about two formats right?

Yes, but unbanned =/ unrestricted.


I would like to see land tax unbanned as well - but I doubt it will happen.

[nataz]

yea, unbanned is what I meant, and I misread what I quoted.

meh, close enough.

I'm curious how people feel about gifts though, is it even a possible canidate for restriction?

[Moxlotus]

I think Gifts is a candidate for restriction for 1 reason.  It is better than FoF and FoF is restricted.

However, since it is not even close to dominating I would be extremely disappointed if it was restricted.