The Official SCG P9 Rochester Update Thread

[dicemanx]

Well, it was good enough to get Ugo in the finals yet again. I actually like the look of the list. The Blood Moons are very much underappreciated in this format, and the added disruption in the form of Mana leak can be as good as Duress (and Duress relies too much on fetching out an Underground, which is bad). The CoW infi-lock has some nice advantages over Pentavus, particularly the ability to so randomly generate CoW Strip locks and other neat tricks.

[yespuhyren]

I also like the crucible over the pentavus, because I can guarantee that there will be the odd times where crucible will randomly help your mana base if opponent pulls out some wastes/strips to your mana base. 

[Moxlotus]

That list looks amazing for a Control heavy, Stax light environment.  That's probably how it won.

[forests failed you]

That Canadian player I played first round of the top eight, Ryan whateverhislastnameis, was a total jerk during our match as well.  I can honestly say, that I did NOTHING to provoke that kind of negative attitude from him.  Some people just need to lighten up, its only a game!

[Shock Wave]

that list honestly looks terrible.

Mana Leak?  Blood moon?  Canada?  WTF
The crucible + artifact land/strip mine is ass, because pentivus can actually beat down.

Platinum Angel beats Oath, but it barely stalls other decks.  and it only beats oath that doesn't have bounce.



THREE goblin welders is a SERIOUS wtf.

... you mean Crucible doesn't attack!? Serious? Thanks for clarifying. Using that logic, I guess Pentavus must suck, because if you draw it and don't have a discard outlet, it rots in your hand while your opponent rams his cards up your ass. Neither of these approaches are "ass", they both have advantages and nifty little tricks that can performed with either. If Platinum Angel provides an angle in the Oath matchup that forces the Oath player to diverge from their game plan, then it serves a very important purpose. Instead of being so dismissive, why not take a look at *why* this decklist was successful?

[Anusien]

Blood Moon is actually really savage, despite people's silly insistence on running basic Islands.  It can cut Gifts and Slaver off from black entirely unless they have a Mox, while simultaneously ensuring you can hit Welder mana.  Tinker->Platz is a strong play against Oath and Combo because it narrows their outs to just bounce.  Ugo's also got Library, which is a serious beating, and the potential for Crucible + Strip.  The extra mana Leaks seem sort of weak, but maybe it's what the deck needs.

[dicemanx]

Well, apparently the list fails to conform to a specific way that Slaver SHOULD be built so that it can be properly assessed as a DEAD archetype. This is reminiscent of certain people posting that LS is dead in Legacy, but at the same time not holding back on their opinions of HOW LS should be built. So there's some more amazing logic for us all.

The three Welders don't really come as a surprise that much. I believe that Goth Slaver ran 3 Welders for comparison purposes, and while the way both variants play out might be a little different, it serves to highlight the fact that Welder isn't necessarily absolutely critical to the archetype.

[FiReiSFuN]

@ forcefieldyou:  LoL... I wouldn't take it personally.  Some of the most hilarious matches i've seen have featured Trepanier... he's just cocky since he q'd for the Pro Tour.  In Canada, it seems, it's not a Type 1 match unless you are calling the other guy all sorts of names and generally making fun of him.

Congrats Trep, and Diceman (I figured you'd win it, what happened?)

@ Shockwave:  What did you play (Landstill?  Drainshop? and how did you do?)

[forests failed you]

I only had three welders in my Burning Slavery deck.

[MoxMonkey]

3 Welders is fine, I have been running 3 for a while 4 is probably needed when theres a lot of Stax around but as said Stax was in low numbers.  I tested Mana Leaks and Didn't like them but I dont like having that many counters it feels to much like Mono Blue although that might be what the deck needs.  Anyway Nice deck and good job winning with that "Dead deck"

[Outlaw]

PS Angelo was hospitalized for drinking too much?

[yespuhyren]

In Canada, it seems, it's not a Type 1 match unless you are calling the other guy all sorts of names and generally making fun of him.

OMG YES.  If I had mine and Arend's (SpecialK) match on camera, you'd all be dying.  The ridiculous shit coming out of everyone's mouth was just incredicle.  Trashtalking is bad.  But insults and jokes IS the Canadian Metagame...well...that and OFM 2K5

[Juggernaut GO]

That Canadian player I played first round of the top eight, Ryan whateverhislastnameis, was a total jerk during our match as well.  I can honestly say, that I did NOTHING to provoke that kind of negative attitude from him.  Some people just need to lighten up, its only a game!

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought he was a jackhole, as well as one of the slowest CS players I ever faced.

[Old Dan of the Sea]

Congrats to all the top 8 finishers, especially Bryan Finch "Evilkin" and fellow Canadians.

Also a thank you to Star City Games for running an excellent tournament.

Old Dan

P.S. - Forcefieldyou, your top 8 match against Ryan Treppanier was one of the funniest games I have ever witnessed.

[benthetenor]

The CoW infi-lock has some nice advantages over Pentavus, particularly the ability to so randomly generate CoW Strip locks and other neat tricks.

That's one of our favorite CS tricks, though our list also runs the 'Bus. Crucible is especially important in our ridiculous Stax metagame if for no other reason than to guarantee a semi-consistant manabase, as well as randomly Crucible-Stripping people out. Congrats on the win again, Ugo. I hope we get to see the other lists soon.

[knickers]

Don't let one Canadian's ignorance influence the way you judge other Canadians.
Same goes with the American's ...

When will the decklists be up I wonder? Without the Live Events on SCG's I completely forgot that this event was taking place.

[Mastaq]

PS Angelo was hospitalized for drinking too much?

I'll pm you the story later on today. I'm doing fine now.

[Razvan]

that list honestly looks terrible.

Yeah, Ugo only won SCGP9 twice with it, it's garbage. Let's go burn down Quebec. In fact, that's probably a good idea anyways. Lousy frenchies.

Mana Leak?

I myself wonder about the purpose of Mana Leak, since other cards could potentially be better, but keep in mind, any CS deck has 2-4 spots free for customization, and Ugo correctly guessed that Mana Leaks would be very good in this environment. Many hands start with blue-land, mox, something, so being able to have 7 counterspells on turn 1 (with the possibility of 11), is very strong, especially in such a field. Duress sometimes just doesn't cut it.

Blood moon?

Hey, that's my tech... Kidding though, Blood Moon is so powerful in today's environment, it's a very good idea to put it in most CS's players SB's. It addresses a few of the really bad matchups like Oath, Stax and possibly some Fish decks. It does run into the Artifact hate though, since most artifact hate hits enchantments too, but such is life.

Canada?

CANADA PWNZ J00.

WTF

Yeah, Jacob's deck is pretty annoying, I agree.

The crucible + artifact land/strip mine is ass, because pentivus can actually beat down.

First, it's PentAvus. Secondly, this is the first time I heard that Crucible/Strip Mine is ass. I am not sure why Ugo didn't add 1-2 Intuitions for it, but I guess it works for him, since any of the 3 cards is powerful by itself anyhow.

Platinum Angel beats Oath but it barely stalls other decks.  and it only beats oath that doesn't have bounce.

I actually agree with you, Platinum Angel is not the best choice at the moment.

THREE goblin welders is a SERIOUS wtf.

Not really. A lot of decks do that.

This would have been downgraded to a verbal warning, because you added content to your post, but you deleted the moderator text, which means your warning stands.
-Jacob

I am honestly confused at this point. I don't want to delete this, because of Jacob's warning, since we cannot delete a mod's text. So it's here too...
Klep had originally red-texted the post, but Nova deleted that when he rewrote it.

[Juggernaut GO]

what really bothered me was the amount of players at rochester that would use demonic tutor on turn 2 or 3 to get ancestral.  I just don't follow the logic of wasting the card that will win you the game to draw 3 early.  And 3 cards early on does not always mean you win.  I was under the impression that either vamp or mystical were used primarily to find ancestral by turn 2 and save your demonic for lotus/yawgwill/tinker  etc.  When you resolve a demonic tutor, it will get you the card you need to win the game.  I just saw it as a waste to fetch an ancestral, but nearly every canadian player I saw used this tactic.

[forests failed you]

Using DT to get Recall is not a bad play.  True it can get you Will later on.  But it gets you tempo earlier on, and also it puts recall in the grave for when you do WIll.

Tempo wins games.

Congrats to all the top 8 finishers, especially Bryan Finch "Evilkin" and fellow Canadians.

Also a thank you to Star City Games for running an excellent tournament.

Old Dan

P.S. - Forcefieldyou, your top 8 match against Ryan Treppanier was one of the funniest games I have ever witnessed.

Hey thanks!

Its always good to know that you can win matches of Magic the gathering because you can rattle the shit out of your opponents, even when you have awful hands.  Hands so awful that when your opponent Duresses you the screams out "OMG your hand is shit!  What are you doing over there!  You are so screwed!"

Hurray for asking how many cards your opponent has in their hand 8000 times in one match.

[forests failed you]

Sorry to double post.

Did any of you guys catch that match between me and Ryan from Canada?  I could not believe the table judge let us go at it like that.  It was totally awesome!

[Juggernaut GO]

When they ask for cards in hand, I usually just say "Yes"

[freakish777]

I was under the impression that either vamp or mystical were used primarily to find ancestral by turn 2 and save your demonic for lotus/yawgwill/tinker  etc.

And if you already have Tinker/Will/Lotus/Academy in hand?

I actually find myself Tutoring for Academy most.  I also agree that tutoring for Ancestral early on is not as bad a play as it may seem, getting Recall through on turns 1 - 3 can win games hands down because it finds you the counter magic, draw spells, mana, and actual threats you need to pull through or ahead.

[dicemanx]

I just saw it as a waste to fetch an ancestral, but nearly every canadian player I saw used this tactic.

Well, the idea is get ahead stay ahead. See, when you draw a lot of cards you very often easily find what you're looking for while having answers to opponents' threats. 

[Shock Wave]

When you resolve a demonic tutor, it will get you the card you need to win the game.  I just saw it as a waste to fetch an ancestral, but nearly every canadian player I saw used this tactic.

I don't know how else to explain this, but here in Canada, an early game DT for Ancestral is a pretty good play. I guess we play a different game up here.

[forests failed you]

Clearly you guys all suck.

I hate playing Recall on turn one or two.   

It seems really subpar to oh say doing nothing.

[dicemanx]

Ah, now I get it. We've apparently glazed over the old adage "why play [insert card name here], when you can just WIN?" To adapt it to this latest pearl of wisdom, "Why DT for Ancestral, when you can DT for the WIN?"

[forests failed you]

As good as DT is, I don't believe it allows you to get abstract concepts such as "Win" out of your deck.

 Although I suppose you can technically find "Wonder," "Glory," or "Anger."  Although, that is only because they have cards with those names...

However if they ever print a card called "The Win" you would in fact be able to DT for it.

BTW:  What are you people smoking?  Turn one DT for Recall is fucking savage, because it is the best spell you can get, protect, and play on turn two without force of will.

[MoxMonkey]

DT for Recall was brought up because Most of the Canadians Were casting it for Recall on turn 6+.  I mean Recall on Turn 1-3 is a huge thing but on turn 6+ I myself like winning the game instead via yawg will or Tinker. Also it wasn't that they didn't have a hand they had 5-6 cards in hand after.  DT for Ancestral is great EARLY game late game DT for Ancestral is subpar to terrible. 

[ReAnimator]

Why would you ever DT for The Win^tm when you could just play more of The Win^tm? This makes no sense to me at all?????  Isn't DT'ing for The Win^tm really mana inefficient, if you could just cast it anyway?

I've seen plenty of games where someone DT's for Yagwill or Tinker ect. early and having nothing to protect it so they wait and do nothing for a bunch of turns and get buried by the opponents card adv. or game plan.
It is really easy to resolve an ancestral sneaking it through when convienient, the others not so much. An early ancestral can obv pull you really far ahead.