Myr Retriever combo

[Gruesome]

i got a strategy i wanna run by you guys (and maybe gals), i wanna see if this could work.  Basically it is using Ashnod's Alter with the Grinding Station and My retrievers.  Have one Myr Retriever in the graveyard and one in play, then sac one to Ashnod's Alter and then activate Grinding Station's effect.  Now i just need to know if this works, and if so then if this deck is any good

Creatures:
4x Myr Retriever
4x Myr Servitor
4x Raven Guildmaster

Spells/Artifacts:
4x Unsummon
4x Boomerang
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Ashnod's Alter
4x Whispersilk Cloak
4x Demonic Tutor
4x Grinding Station
2x Fabricate

Lands:
12x Island
4x City of Brass
4x Swamp

any and all feedback will be appreciated

[spindrift]

You should take out the Ashnod's alter and replace it with 4 helm of awakening. It will create and infinite combo and you can deck your opponant. I would also consider adding 4 skullclamps to help you draw. It has great synergy with both the myr retriever and the Servitor.

[Gruesome]

but if i add the Skull Clamps, then wouldn't i have to take out the Ensnaring bridges?  i kept out the skull clamps to make sure that i could stall my opponent and if i'm drawing cards like crazy with the clamps then ensnaring bridges wouldn't be much use then right? 

[lordmayhem]

I would totally abandon the idea of using Raven Guildmaster, and stick 4 Disciple of the Vault in there, along with the 4 Helm of Awakening.

That way, you have : Sac Myr to Altar, target opponent loses 1 life, return other Myr, play Myr. Rinse & Repeat.
And : Sac Myr to Station, mill, return myr, play it free (helms), untap station. Rinse & Repeat.

Oh and you gotta do Clamps.

So I would go

-4 Guildmaster
-4 Whispersilk Cloak
-4 Bridge
+4 Dotv
+4 Clamps
+4 Helm of Awakening

[Gruesome]

but whats the point of putting Disciples in there?  i want to desk them not kill them outright, thats boring   i'm going to keep my raven guildmasters thank you.

[lordmayhem]

Because the only real reason whispersilk cloaks are in there are for Guild Master and it feels clumsy. Also DOTV is additional clamp fodder. However if decking is all you're after, Ashnod's Altar + Helm of Awakening + 2 Myr Retrievers = Infinite mana. You might want to try out Psychic Drain seeing as you've already gone UB.

[Gruesome]

but this still doesn't make sense.... i don't wanna deck myself..  clamps make too much card drawing, 

[spindrift]

I love this deck idea and so I have have been playing something in casual using your deck list.

Here is what I have come up with.
//creatures 16
4 [card]Myr Retriever[/card]
4 [card]Junk Diver[/card]
4 [card]Myr Servitor[/card]
4 [card]Disciple of the Vault[card]

//Artifacts 12
4 [card]Ashnod's Alter[/card]
4 [card]Grinding Station[/card]
4 [card]Helm of Awakening[/card]

//draw 'n search 7

4 [card]Skullclamp[/card]
1 [card]Demonic Tutor[/card]
1 [card]Vampiric Tutor[/card]
1 [card]Tinker[/card]

//Utillity 2
2 [card]Psychic Drain[/card]

//Mana 23
4 [card]Urza's Mine[/card]
4 [card]Urza's Power Plant[/card]
4 [card]Urza's Tower[/card]
4 [card]Vault of Whispers[/card]
4 [card]Seat of the Synod[/card]
3 Swamp


This sucker is fast!! On more than one occasion I was able to deck 3 people in a multi-player game by turn 4!!

I am considering a Vintage update to the mana base and taking it to a tournament. I played a version of fish one on one and beat it 5 out of 7 times! The only reasons I lost was to a freaking [card]Null Rod[/card] and one good timed FoW.

This deck is so consistant and when you are missing pieces the skullclamps really help locate what you need. This deck also has TfK written all over it. I haven't tested that yet, but I will.

[lordmayhem]

but this still doesn't make sense.... i don't wanna deck myself..  clamps make too much card drawing, 

You know what doesn't make sense? Thinking that drawing extra cards is bad. The more cards you draw, the faster you will get all your combo pieces, and hence the more chance you have of winning.

@ spindrift : That looks like a really fun decklist. I think Metalworker would be a good fun idea too.

[pooispoois]

@ spindrift : That looks like a really fun decklist. I think Metalworker would be a good fun idea too.

Metalworker surely is a good idea, but definitely not a fun one.

[lordmayhem]

@ spindrift : That looks like a really fun decklist. I think Metalworker would be a good fun idea too.

Metalworker surely is a good idea, but definitely not a fun one.

That surely depends on your idea of what fun in magic is.

[spindrift]

This is just an amazing deck!! A friend of mine (who originally came up with a Grinding Station deck) has really taken a liking to this too and here is what we have now developed it into:

//Creatures 16
4 [card]Myr Retriever[/card]
4 [card]Junk Diver[/card]
4 [card]Myr Servitor[/card]
4 [card]Myr Moonvessel[/card]

//Artifacts 8
4 [card]Grinding Station[/card]
4 [card]Helm of Awakening[/card]

//draw 'n search 8
4 [card]Skullclamp[/card]
1 [card]Demonic Tutor[/card]
1 [card]Demonic Consultation[/card]
1 [card]Vampiric Tutor[/card]
1 [card]Yawgmoth's Will[/card]

//Disruption 2
2 [card]Duress[/card]

//Mana 26
1 [card]Black Lotus[/card]
1 [card]Mox Emerald[/card]
1 [card]Mox Pearl[/card]
1 [card]Mox Sapphire[/card]
1 [card]Mox Ruby[/card]
1 [card]Mox Jet[/card]
1 [card]Sol Ring[/card]
1 [card]Lion's Eye Diamond[/card]
1 [card]Mana Vault[/card]
1 [card]Mana Crypt[/card]
1 [card]Lotus Petal[/card]
4 [card]Ancient Tomb[/card]
4 [card]City of Traitors[/card]
5 [card]Swamp[/card]
2 [card]Polluted Delta[/card]

On more than one occasion we have dropped a first turn win! (I know, I know, I look like some newbie calling out a first turn win deck, but test it for yourself, please!) But most of the time it is 2nd to 4th turn win.

I wish I could give you a good idea of what this deck could do, but we have not done much play testing against anything except creature based decks and the rogue burn decks. This does, however, eat oath alive. This deck is Forbidden Orchards worst nightmare with a skullclamp in play.

Also, I need to find more room for disruption, but I don't know what to cut.

Any comments or assistance is apprectiated.

[asmoranomardicodais]

But a first turn win deck is still jank unless is has a way around force of will, which I don't see in this deck. What does this deck do against a deck that has counters?

BTW, I'm talking about the Typeone Version, not the casual version. In casual, the only problem with a quick combo deck is that your friends will beat you up. And that hurts. Espcially when your friend JUST "happens" to have a his golf club with him. Like he even plays golf. I mean...umm...quick combo decks= bad. 

[spindrift]

What does any deck do against Counter?

If someone counters your artifacts then you get them back with a Junkdiver or a Myr retriever.

[Dream_Merchant]

But a first turn win deck is still jank unless is has a way around force of will, which I don't see in this deck. What does this deck do against a deck that has counters?

BTW, I'm talking about the Typeone Version, not the casual version. In casual, the only problem with a quick combo deck is that your friends will beat you up. And that hurts. Espcially when your friend JUST "happens" to have a his golf club with him. Like he even plays golf. I mean...umm...quick combo decks= bad. 

generally playing with uber abusive cards is not a good idea, not in casual

what I mean is you are trying to showcase a novel idea, and neither scullclamp nor DOTV are exactly novel ideas and overflowing your deck with well tested and overpowered cards makes the 'fun' stuff seem inconsequential .. its like playing playing tendrils combo and splashing four mountain goats, and then calling it casual because of the goats.

[Draven]

In casual, the only problem with a quick combo deck is that your friends will beat you up.

I agree, fast combo decks are not cool against friends. I had an infinate TimeWalk deck that really just annoyed everyone, usually they just conceded when they saw what deck I was playing. That wasn't fun for me, or them...

[bebe]

Well to start with lose the two duress and fit in three cabal therapy - this more than doubles your disruption. Damn that deck is fast and really your biggest problems will be null rod and chalices. If you go first you should be quite golden.

[rocknrossi]

Null rod and chalices in casual I hate to play casual with some of you. Though with a deck so creature heavy culll of the weak might be a nifty idea to add in there. Though that kinda of makes this feel more and more like a kobold deck.

[Mr. Type 4]

The lines of what's casual, fun etc. are an impossible topic that can be debated forever to no concieveable end.  It's hard for everyone to have fun because someone has to lose, and it's inevitable that sooner or later somone is going to decide that they don't like losing against certain cards because they are in your deck.  It seems clear that no one wants to play against established archtypes when playing in casual, but there are still complaints about someone using a card like Metalworker, which really isn't that degenerate. 

Sometimes I think it's a personality thing.  I can usually get away with playing really good decks in casual play, but I let people win sometimes.   

[Mr. Nightmare]

In my casual playgroup, there is a very thick line that separates casual and competitive, which is nice, since I am heads and shoulders above the rest of the group in both card access, as well as skill, mostly because the rest of the group doesn't enjoy the tournament scene.  Once in a while, I'll bring out a competitive deck that has the ability to win the game quickly, but its more of a teaching excersize than anything else.  Its a "This is what people who optimize decks and search out good cards can do." kind of thing.  Then they all gang up and kill me first the next game.  I've been introducing the concept of alternate formats (Skittles, type 4) and drafting to them, hoping for a little more fairness in the form of a limited cardpool, and that has helped the games be a little more enjoyable, too. 

I have to agree though, there are many definitions of fun.  To me, I'd rather have 6 people racing to combo out than have 10 creatures in front of me, stalled out by the 10 in front of everyone else.

[Harlequin]

When diving into a casual player group, It is important to bring a wide variety of decks.  Because the power level of "Casual" can fluxuate from group to group.  I would say that any deck packing some sort of infinite combo would be "high power casual."   Where my WB Thrull Deck (only lands a few junk equips and thrulls... oh and 2 souls of the faultless... becuase that card friken' rocks!) would be "low power Casual."    The moral of the story is that you need to bring a deck that is the same level as the casual group...

This isn't to say, you cannot play combo.  If your idea of fun is to play combo (in contrast to control or creature aggro) then here are some Ideas for "Jank Combo" decks that are highly adatable in power level.  And rather fun to play at the same time.

Master of the Helix (Blue Red). [low power combo]
Runs Spell Weaver Helix, and a bunch of 4-of Sorceries that discard (Careful Study, Compulsive reasearch) and some other 4 of sorceries like Dream Cashe.  Then It runs some combo sorceries ... the best of wich is Time Spiral.  the concept is to discard time spiral (or minds desire, or Wheel of forturn .. etc), then play Spell Weaver Helix imprinting one of the 4 of's and Time spiral.  Then you just go crazy.  I also run Skull clamps and Sage Owls for sorting type fun.  Also I have 4 Helms to make playing spells easier.  The win is Wee Dragonaugts with a single fling, and a single Niv-Mizzet. 

21 Gun Salute (Blue Red). [low power without welders, high with welders]
This is my favorite combo deck, and it can be run really at 2 different speeds.  Basically Its 1 damage tappers, 8 mana-Myrs, Anger, some tap drawers (Archivist, Merfolk Looter, Curiosity on pinger) and Intruder alarm.  If you REALLY want speed, Run 4 Welders and 4 Thirsts ... then go infini-combo with a myr in the bin, A pinger, a welder, a myr, and an intruder alarm in play... as you weld myr for myr all your guys untap and you draw/ping the crap outa them... and untap your welder to do it again.  Oh and Kiki-jiki can be an amazing infinite win too esp if your untapping mana-myrs like a madman.

Will of the Proteus (blue + splash if you want) [mid-high power combo]
Basically you run Proteus Staff and abuse it with: Nucense Engine, Man-lands, Preacher (who is very cool with proteus staff, and takes some explaining to a new player of magic who may not understand the subtle but important difference between owner and controler).    the "other" creatures in the deck will deturmine the power level of the deck.  I run Apprentice Wizard and Vaedalkin Engineers to intentinally block up my staff.  But you could conceivibly run only "oath creatures" and build an oath-less oath deck... again rather high power.

Alter of Storm (artifact + splash) [very high power combo]
This is actually VERY similar to the deck you have listed above.  The Set-up is nearly Identical.  Basically you run 4 Junk Divers and 4 Myr Retrievers.  Along side that you run 4 Ashnods Alter (title card), and any number of Krakclan Ironwork.  Getting Myr in bin, wiht Myr + Alter in play is infinite Myr for mana for Myr interaction.  So you have infinte Myrs coming into play, and infite myrs going into the yard.  At this point win conditions include (but are not limited to) Deciple of the vault, Lodestone Myr, Genesis Chamber, Arcbound Crusher... but my personal favorite is Lightnigh Coils.  This way they atleast have a turn to *try* and stop the flood of thousands of 3/1 Lightning elementals that are going to spawn durring my next upkeep.  Also it makes for a cooler name for the deck.  And what is a good casual deck without a good name 

Anyway, Good luck finding a balance between a fun combo deck for you to play, and a fun combo deck for others to play against.

[Mr. Type 4]

I like the deck where you play Multani's Presence and Chalice = 0 then play cards that cost 0 so you get to draw cards and win with Songs of the dammned=> Tendrils.  It takes a while to set up, but is pretty amusing. 

I read this recently, which I think is on subject.  This guy has some good ideas about what causal means. 

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/article/334/the-perfect-casual-format-part-1/

All in all, I think it's off subject to question weather or not a deck listed in this forum or a suggestion made about a deck in this forum is "casual".  Harlequin makes some good points, and he covers what to do if you want to strike up a casual game with some total strangers, but I think most of all you need to know what your local play group considers fun/casual, and then you can make your decisions on how to take advice from this column. 

comments like this:

Metalworker surely is a good idea, but definitely not a fun one.

are limited to the scope of the person's own casual experience and aren't necessarily relevant to everyone else.

[liz_bliz]

I too think many times decks like that and the one I'm going to post should be left for more competative casual rounds. And anyone who plays trinisphere, power nine, platinum angel or any other really cheesy thing like 1st to 2nd turn elf or golbin combos in casual should be kicked in the balls should they have them.

this is my personal myr deck. It has a turn three kill record as of now and about an average 5 to 6 turn fuse.

I like it because once I set up the combo, no deck, no card, no nothing can stop it from succeding. I'm not bragging, it's true. Whenever something gets in my way I just start my combo over and stack it on top of that spell, be it a counter, or a time stop.

I have deamed it :

Myr, Myr on the wall; Whose the cruelest of them all?

Qty   
4   Cloudpost
4   Seat of the Synod
5   Island
1   Tolarian Academy
4   Mishra's Workshop
      
//\\      
      
// Creatures            
4   Myr Retriever
4   Myr Servitor
2   Lodestone Myr
1   Beast of Burden
1   Broodstar
4   Vedalken Engineer
1   Solarion
2   Dross Scorpion

      //\\            

// Spells            
4   Skullclamp
1   Grinding Station
1   Doubling Cube
4   Genesis Chamber
1   Coat of Arms
1   Spawning Pit   
1   Mana Maze
1   Phyrexian Altar
1   Sol Ring
2   Helm of Awakening
2   Machinate
1   Blasting Station
1   Spellbook
1   Myr Matrix
1   Whispersilk Cloak


You see, the thing I love about this deck is that Once I get going, I'm opperating at instant/ability speed, not at creature/sorcery speed.

Evil isn't it?