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Author Topic: Mana Drain tips  (Read 6573 times)
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« on: January 23, 2006, 10:33:21 am »

4 Subtle but game breaking Tips for Winning with Mana Drain
By Brian DeMars

        Mana Drain based control and combo control decks are definitely among the strongest and most consistent decks in Vintage at the moment.  In 2005 both Gifts and Control Slaver decks put up great numbers and were among the top finishers at almost every major Vintage event in the United States.  In this article I’d like to share with you all four subtle tips and strategies that will hopefully grant you new insight into whatever your Mana Drain deck of preference is, as well as improve your overall game and the consistency of your play.           
       In order to play any of the Drain based decks of Vintage, whether it be Control Slavery, Gifts, Keeper or whatever, the most important virtue to keep in mind is always first and foremost PATIENCE.  Excluding games where one player simply ‘out brokens’ the other, playing Mana Drain based decks is all about methodically devising and executing a thoughtful and preconceived game plan.  The guidelines I have set out in this article are to help Mana Drain players to win the close and up in the air games where play skill and actual decision making play a major factor in deciding the out come.  If you take these five tips into account at the next Vintage event, play testing session, or weekly tournament I promise you that you will see improved results in your play and most likely a better understanding of how your deck works.

I :  An uncracked fetch land is a Mana Drain player’s best friend.

        Aside from fixing one’s Mana, and ensuring that splash colored Mana can be played when the appropriate time arises;  Fetch lands provide a series of other powerful relevant game impacting effects.  The best way to win close games is to take advantage of every single little effect you can possibly create, and capitalize on all of the small things.  As in any game, sport or competitive exercise the player or team that wins all of the small battles usually emerges victorious.  Maximizing the influence of your fetch lands is a good place to start if one is looking to out play an opponent by winning all of the small battles.  The first and foremost place that I see players make mistakes when playing Mana Drain decks is misuse of their fetch lands.  Players who come to Vintage with experience from other formats, in particular Standard or Extended, tend to be of the mindset that fetch lands are good for thinning out lands from their deck.  And while this is most certainly true, fetch lands do pull a land out of one’s deck, making is slightly statistically more likely that one will draw a business spell over a land card, arbitrarily fetching out lands is almost always a misplay.  (Keep in mind that I am talking about fetching to thin with a Mana Drain based deck, Fish and other aggro decks are a whole different can of worms).   
       Aside from deck thinning, Polluted Delta and Flooded Strand provide a whole plethora of relevant effects:  Firstly, they ensure that you can find off color splash Mana at the appropriate times.  Secondly, they protect your Mana from spells and effects that would destroy your land, particularly Wasteland, Strip Mine, and Sundering Titan.  And thirdly, they provide you with a shuffle effect that shares extreme synergy with cards the card Brainstorm.  It is for these reasons, the efficiency and consistency that they add to Mana Drain decks, that I believe Polluted Delta and Flooded Strand are the best and two most important lands in the format; more so than even restricted Tolerian Academy, Strip Mine or even Mishra’s Workshop.  That is of course just my opinion and it is definitely a debatable statement, but the fact of the matter is that fetches are extremely powerful and relevant cards that can help gain you tactical and strategic advantage when played correctly.

        When I am playing Slaver I never crack my fetch lands except under the following circumstances:

  • 1.  I have just resolved Brainstorm and want to shuffle so that I won’t
    draw the cards I put back. 
  • 2.  My opponent has just targeted my fetch land with a
    Wasteland or Strip Mine
  • 3.  My opponent is going to control my next turn via Mindslaver.
  • 4.  I need to fetch out the Mana to play a spell.
  • 5.  There is a Root Maze in play.
  • 6.  My opponent has a Pithing Needle on the stack.


      By saying all of this I am simply trying to reinforce that fetching for no reason is bad and should be avoided at all costs.  At any point in the game if you draw Brainstorm you’ll be extremely happy that you didn’t fetch for no reason.  Also, if you fetch it allows your opponent the opportunity  to Wasteland one of your off colored Mana and cut you off from playing off one of your colored spells.   Statistically the advantage you gain from deck thinning, of drawing a non land card, is almost always smaller than the possibility of you drawing a Brainstorm (depending upon how many are left in your deck of course), which almost always makes it a weak play to fetch.  The fact that an inactivated fetch also protects your Mana  base at the same time just further reinforces the fact that fetching for no reason is bad.

II.         In the Mana Drain V Mana Drain matchup, “Think before you drop that Mox!�

          One of the biggest tells of a weak Mana Drain player is how they play out their Moxes, and other zero casting cost Mana producing artifacts.  It is the natural tendency of players to want to put all of their Mana into play as soon as possible so that it is readily available to them.  Against decks that will make it difficult for a Drain player to get their Moxes into play it is almost always strategically beneficial to play out your Mana sources.  For instance Fish plays Chalice of the Void which counters later Moxes, Stax also plays Chalice of the Void, in addition to Trinisphere and Sphere of Resistance, and Combo plays Draw 7’s, so that if you don’t play them they may very well go away.  In all of these match ups dumping your Moxes early is usually the right call. 
         
              However, when you are playing against another Mana Drain deck (Chalice Oath excluded for obvious reasons) playing out your Moxes for no reason is almost always a misplay.  My rule of thumb for the Mana Drain V Mana Drain match up is this:  If you are not going to need it for Mana this turn, leave it in your hand.  Holdin Moxes in the Drain V Drain match up performs a variety of functions.  Firstly, it is an unknown card in your hand that they have to play around.  When you are tanking two Moxes with five cards in hand, your opponent has no idea that almost half of your hand sucks; rather, he may very well be waiting until he can play around the Force of Will and Mana Drain he thinks are in your hand.  Secondly, I cannot tell you how many times I have met an opponents Land, off color Mox, off color mox, (with no play I might add) with a game ending turn one Gorilla Shaman.  If said player had held his Moxes, there is the possibility that he could have Brainstormed and Fetched them away, or waited until he had dealt with my Welder to cast them, or even cast them and had an opportunity to use the Mana once before I destroyed them with the Shaman.  Many of the Mana Drain decks in the format, in particular Control Slaver, run some number of Shamans in the maindeck;  respect the Monkey or suffer the consequences.  Playing Mana Drain decks is all about being patient and making the right plays.  If you hold the irrelevant Mox it can also be pitched to a later drawn Thirst For Knowledge, or may help you get seven cards in hand to activate a Library of Alexandria.  If you don’t need it, heed my advice, don’t play it because it serves you better in your hand.

III.        Declaring no attackers.

           When you are piloting a Drain deck it is important to always be thinking and planning ahead for what is going to happen next.  One good example of this is determining during which of your main phases Mana Drains triggered abilitiy of giving you Mana will occur.   For instance if you are planning on playing a spell during your turn with Mana Drain back up to make sure it resolves, you need to decided between two things:  Do I want the Mana Drain’s trigger to resolve during my second main phase of this turn, or secondly, do I want to get the Mana Drain trigger during my next turn.  Remember that regardless of whether or not you want it, every turn includes two main phases separated by an attack step.  So, if you Mana Drain a spell during your first main phase you will have Drain Mana in your pool during the second.  I frequently see inexperienced players make this mistake and end up burning in the second main phase because all of their blue sources are tapped from casting Mana Drain.  If you clearly don’t want the Mana Drain trigger during your second main phase be sure to declare an attack first; even if you have no attackers to declare.  Just be sure to always consider whether or not they can respond to your spells before you cast them, and don’t get hasty or over excited about casting that bomb digity Tinker for Darksteel Colossus backed up by Mana Drain before declaring an attack first.  However, sometimes you’ll specifically want the Mana during your second main phase, most likely if you are Drain backing up a Yawgmoth’s Will or a Tinker for Mindslaver.  Also, keep in mind that you can also declare an attack to move into your second main phase as a way to bluff that you do have Mana Drain.  I’ve scared many a player into letting me resolve a random Gorilla Shaman or Thirst For Knowledge in my second main phase because they didn’t want to risk having their Force of Will countered by the Mana Drain they thought I had.  The moral to the story is to think ahead, and determine before hand when would be the most advantageous time for you to have Mana Drain’s triggered ability resolve.

IV.        Brainstorm protects bombs, wins you tight games when played correctly, and loses you
games when misplayed.

Aside from possibly Gifts and Fact or Fiction, Brainstorm is the most skill intensive card in any Mana Drain based deck.  It requires you to do a variety of things correctly in order to maximize its efficiency.  Firstly, you have to play it at the right time in order for it to work to its full potential, and secondly you have to keep and throw back the correct cards.  As an added bonus Brainstorm also has the capability to protect your most important spells from cards like Duress, Mesmeric Fiend or Mind Twist.  Brainstorm is actually the best card to have in your hand when an opponent plays Duress, because it allows you to put the best two cards in your hand back on top of your library to be redrawn where your opponent can’t hit them.  If you are playing against a deck that you know has Duress, you definitely want to try and use your Brainstorms as protection against their Duresses.         
            The other major place I see players mess up with Brainstorm is when they choose to cast it at the wrong time.  My philosophy for playing Mana Drain decks is to always be as patient as possible, and to never exhaust resources until it is necessary.  For instance, most of the time I think that casting Brainstorm on turn one is a misplay.  If I have a hand that has business in it already, I usually think the best play is to hold onto it for later.  Obviously, if you need to draw a Force of Will on turn one, or if your hand has no gas, or no more Lands, playing it is the right call (because after all it  has amazing potential to stabilize sub par hands);  However, if your hand is already good you can hold it and use it later on.  It is actually a fact that the longer you hold onto a Brainstorm the better it becomes, because it actually digs you deeper into your deck.  Don’t forget that two of the cards in your hand will be going back onto of your library, so if you Brainstorm looking for business and miss you have to wait three draw steps before you even have a possibility of drawing a new card. 

             The best possible example of this tip in action was in the finals of the 2004 World Championships between Mark “Windfall� Biller and David Allen.  Mark was playing Control Slaver and David was playing his 5/3 deck.  Basically, this is the scenario David and Mark are both out of Gas and in top deck mode, but David has a slow clock on the table beating down for one a turn and Mark is at about 5 life.  Mark has to hit one of his two Welders left in his deck to win, or Yawgmoth’s Will because all of his robots are in the Library already. It plays out like this.  Mark draws a Brainstorm during his draw step and instead of casting it to find a solution simply passes.  David draws, plays a land and attacks Mark down to 4.  This process repeats, more or less, for three more turns until Mark is down to two life.  With his life total at two Mark draws for his turn and then casts Brainstorm.  The third card down was the Welder he needed.  Mark played the Welder, let the Trisk beat him down to one, then untapped and won the game.  The point of the story is that Mark won the game because he was patient and he didn’t Brainstorm too early.  Had he flinched and cast it any sooner during the game he would have lost the game.  As a result of his patience and correct play of Brainstorm he was rewarded with the 2004 World Champion title.

          The moral of the story is;  realize when you cast Brainstorm (when it is the last business spell in your hand) that if you don’t catch business spell you are completely vulnerable for the next two turns.  Every turn you wait is one more card deeper you get into your deck.  Usually, I will try to avoid casting my Brainstorms until I find a fetch land to shuffle away the cards I don’t want.  Patience pays off when playing with Brainstorm;  However, I do understand that sometimes one has to find a Force of Will in an emergency.  The key to becoming a masterful Brainstorm player is to be able to tell the difference between when you are in a state of emergency and need to cast it, and when you have breathing room to wait and dig a little deeper first.
 
Edited the formatting - Dante
« Last Edit: January 23, 2006, 11:03:01 am by Dante » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2006, 11:21:10 am »

I like almost everything you said, but I disagree with your general rule that casting Brainstorm first turn is wrong.  I think first turn Brainstorm is the right choice when you are on playing first against a Chalice deck.  It lets you plop down 10 cards worth of Moxen instead of 7.

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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2006, 11:37:00 am »

Kevin Cron also wrote about this topic a while ago on StarCity for those of you who want to read further: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/7063.html

The matchup examples are of course a little dated now, but the lessons it teaches are still accurate.
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2006, 11:38:44 am »

I found this to be a very informative read.  I can't agree with you more.  I have seen people make the same mistakes you have listed in playing tournaments many times.  I can't tell you how many times I have watched my opponent take mana burn from a 1st main phase drain, and then nothing to do with the mana during the 2nd main phase.

For the most part, I agree with you comments about brainstorm.  However, I think that a 1st turn brainstorm can be a really good play.  I think of it as basically getting to start with 9 cards opening hand, and picking the best 7.  Plus, if you have a fetch in your opening hand as well, this only gets better.  This is just my opinion.  
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2006, 12:04:52 pm »

Quote
When I am playing Slaver I never crack my fetch lands except under the following circumstances:

7. I need to topdeck an answer THIS turn or the game is lost. (i.e. an opponent will swing with DSC for the win the following turn and I need to find one of my few MD answers and want to increase the probability of drawing this card)
8. My opponent has shown me (in a previous game perhaps/via scouting) that he is running Shadow of Doubt/Stifle and at this point my mana development is critical, so I need to play around these spells.

Quote
IV.Brainstorm protects bombs, wins you tight games when played correctly, and loses you
games when misplayed.

A held brainstorm can help optimize certain spells later in the game (i.e. insure/increase the likelihood that an artifact will be available to pitch to TFK, Makes Vamp/Mystical considerably better). As I recall Mark Biller forgot this while resolving a Yawgmoth's Will in the championship match. With an opposing triskelion w/3 counters on the table he played out both of his goblin welders from the graveyard (both quickly shot down and RFG'd by trike) THEN cast his brainstorms and finally cast mystical for mogg salvage and drew it the next turn. Between that and forgetting about some mana drain mana the game was far tighter than it needed to be, but I guess it goes to show, even the best of players can make these mistakes.

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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2006, 12:15:59 pm »

The main point wasn't that one should NEVER cast Brainstorm on the first turn; but rather, one should think about WHY they are casting Brainstorm on the first turn.  Clearly, there are situations where playing it is the correct play, but also, there are also times where this territory becomes much murkier.  What I said was the longer you hold a Brainstorm the more powerful it becomes, because it digs you deeper into your deck.  Therefore, if you don't need to play it you shouldn't.  I also specifically stated that there are times when playing it is the correct move.  However, the point I was actually making was that knowing the difference between the right time to play Brainstorm and the right time to hold Brainstorm is the KEY to being a very strong Drain player.

For instace, if one is going to cast a turn two Thirst For Knowledge what is the point of playing a turn one Brainstorm and putting two cards back?  Perhaps my logic is slightly skewed because I am much more likely to play Slaver at an event than Gifts (and in Gifts one is often merely trying to play one spell with as much back up as possible);  but I think my intent is still consistent.  One must seriously consider if casting Brainstorm is the right play at the right time.  When I'm playing Slaver casting it turn one usually isn't the correct play, but rather waiting and casting it later on will give me a much bigger advantage.  I don't think of Brainstorm as a early game Tempo card, especially in the slaver Control Combo decks, but rather as a gamebreaker that allows you to find what you need in the midgame.  

Also, in response to Puckthecat;  There are times when I will cast a turn one mainphase Brainstorm against Chalice of the Void decks.  However, this is also dependent upon a number of things.  Do I already have Moxes in my opening hand?  If so how many, and what is the probability of drawing another... Also, do I really want another Mana source?  Or, it is also worth considering what kind of lands I'll have to put into play in order to cast the Brainstorm.  Do I have to drop a fetchland and crack it to get a basic Island?  Do I have a basic Island to lead with?  Am I going to have to drop a non basic dual and risk getting Wastelanded and put behind on tempo?  Am I going to be able to make land drops for the next few turns?  Do they play Duress as well, as many Oath decks do?  

Making the correct play with a Mana Drain based combo control deck can be very tricky and can require you to make a series of correct decisions based upon imperfect data.  Part of the key is reading your opponent and knowing the match ups; but also, it is important to have a solid base of knowledge for which your decsion making process is bases.  The key point was that I wanted to assert some basics that perhaps newer or inexperienced players might not have learned yet.



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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2006, 12:39:18 pm »




It is quite correct that Moxes and mana sources should be held back if they do not need to be played in order to make a variety of spells/lands stronger, including TfK, Brainstorm, LoA, or even to up your Storm count. Still, the "need" to play mana isn't limited to just having enough to play the cards in hand - it might be important to play them for bluffing purposes. For instance, if you are fighting in a control mirror and after an attrition war you are both down to few cards in hand, you might want to play that fifth mana source to represent a hard-cast FoW. Or in the early going, you might want to play up to 4 mana sources to represent a Gifts or FoF. This strategy really depends on the type of opponent you are facing though, and whether he will be subject to such potential bluffs (he might be oblivious, or might be very aggressive and call your bluff at almost every opportunity).


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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2006, 12:46:19 pm »

Ha ha, yeah that is very true.

But that almost deserves an article of its own; Titled How to play Marna Drain decks like a Master.

My general intent was to provide basic theory and correct many of the obvious mistakes that I see when watching Vintage matches.  My intended audience really wasn't the top crust of the players, and I realize that there are a variety of extenuating circumstances where certain rules don't apply, or can be disregarded.  However, in general I feel that players who don't already know what is being presented in the article could learn a great deal and improve their play considerably if they try to add these strategies to their game.
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2006, 01:04:38 pm »

In addition to rule no III you could add that you can equally time your spells to make your opponents Mana Drain less effective.
When your opponents says "go", instead of saying, "EOT I cast Thirst", you say: "wait a minute, in your declare attackers phase I cast Thirst".
If he drains this and subsequently wins the counter war (which you maybe expected to lose, but you were interested in just baiting this counter to clear the way for subsequent spells), they will have to spend the 3 mana in their second main phase with UU and one card less than they would have had if you had cast it EOT.

Also the rule: keep your moxes in hand and act like they are FoWs and Drains can be reversed. Say you play in a drain matchup and you´ve both depleted your hand and after that you´ve topdecked a REB and Drain like a lucksack and then he plays Gifts. You can counter that. You could also let it slip with an annoyed face so that he thinks he can go for the kill. Wait to see what happens when you then counter his Will and leave him with Tinker in the GY and Recoup removed from the game. You will need a pokerface, nerves of steel and serious acting skills to pull this off, but the reward will be very satisfying.
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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2006, 02:59:45 pm »

Thank you for the informative and detailed article.

One thing I think I should mention is that this is indeed a biased perspective on playing Drain decks, particularly towards something like Slaver or 4C Control. When playing a drain deck with a combo finish like Oath or Gifts, it is almost always the right play to brainstorm as soon as possible to draw into the combo pieces. Gifts even runs subpar acceleration like vault and petal so that it can have as much mana as quickly as possible; in the cases when you are playing a deck like this, the control strategy goes right out the window, as the objective is to get the combo online.

But generally, conservative play rewards Drain players, so this is very constructive, especially regarding fetchlands and the attack step.
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2006, 07:46:08 pm »

I think the article was really good, I found the information to be helpful.  I'm slowly learning how to play drain decks better, but one thing I always forget to do is move to second main phase.  That's a habit I have to get into.

Also I found the ideas concerning how to play brainstorm helpful too.  I too have been finding that early brainstorms set up a dissapointment, if you don't hit something you need.  Often it is best to wait, but again that takes practice.  Are there any situations where making the a standard play is the best choice?  Basically are there any situations that would make you play brainstorm differently than normally?  Also do you think that brainstorm serves different/more functions in a deck like drain-oath?
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2006, 08:52:35 pm »

I have a question for FFY:
Let's say you keep this hand after a mull: Fetch, basic Island, Mox Pearl, Welder, 2 Thirst and you're on the play against an unknown opponent.
What's your play?  Fetch, Welder?  Island, pass?  What if you have a Brainstorm?  What if the Welder is a Shaman?

I would try for fetch, Welder, but is that just the noob in my talking?

I also always forget to move to second main step. 

Finally, what's a Marna Drain deck? Wink
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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2006, 10:16:56 am »

Extremely well written, great job. If anything you gave a bit to much detail, because it took a while to read.

Times to break fetch:
#9 - Get island to cast brainstorm in responce to duress.

I think you had 1 very small typo or maybe it was just me when you may want to adress when you said in section 4 under declairing no attackers:

"I’ve scared many a player into letting me resolve a random Gorilla Shaman or Thirst For Knowledge in my second main phase because they didn’t want to risk having their Force of Will countered by the Mana Drain they thought I had."

I think when you wrote this you mean 1st main phase? Because, that way... if you do drain there FoW you would have 5 mana on your second main phase to cast the treats like will/tinker if you have just 1 blue mana availible. Which is extremely deadly if you do not pass the turn, because that way they have no recovery room, and obviously no counters left availible if drain resolved on FoW.

You didnt write anything I didnt know already, but I wish this article was published 2-3 years ago before I had fully grasped the minor details of drain decks that generally take 100's of games of trial by error (often in tournements) to grasp. I honestly have disliked you with a passion since you were my only loss at the gencon main event after 3 very broken games of magic that dropped me to 11th, but regardlessly this is perhaps the most well written piece I have seen concerning use of brainstorm/fetch synergy in control (Smennen/Walters went more in dept with the relationship in combo), and a very nice job covering the importance of holding moxes (though you could of mentioned holding them for TfK, or to put back with brainstorm so you have more blue sources in larger counter wars but thats just being a little picky on my part)...

Your description of playing brainstorm is a mirror image of my favorite CS player Rich Shay... Who holds Brainstorms for what seems like forever, and almost never casts them unless he has a fetch/shuffle affect/or getting duressed/or durring oops i r winner situations.

Great Job,

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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2006, 02:28:58 pm »

Excellent article.  I'm very glad of the timing, as well, since my first steps into Vintage are with Drains in hand.  I've found some of your tips (declaring no attackers) out myself in testing, as I screwed that one up, and haven't done it again since.  I do have one question though, in regards to the Drain mirror.

You have a full grip, with relevant cards being Drain, Force, a blue spell, and a Slaver.  You are attempting to cast a spell (say Welder), and you know your opponent has the ability to Force with Drain backup.  Basically, if Welder resolves you win.  In what order, and responding to what counters, do you play out this situation?
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2006, 02:30:53 pm »

I think you had 1 very small typo or maybe it was just me when you may want to adress when you said in section 4 under declairing no attackers:

"I’ve scared many a player into letting me resolve a random Gorilla Shaman or Thirst For Knowledge in my second main phase because they didn’t want to risk having their Force of Will countered by the Mana Drain they thought I had."

I think when you wrote this you mean 1st main phase? Because, that way... if you do drain there FoW you would have 5 mana on your second main phase to cast the treats like will/tinker if you have just 1 blue mana availible. Which is extremely deadly if you do not pass the turn, because that way they have no recovery room, and obviously no counters left availible if drain resolved on FoW.

What he ment, is by saying "I declare my attack step" and then cast a spell, you are bluffing you have a Mana Drain. That means your spell is less likely to get countered (unless it is a bomb) because they think you have the Drain to counter back.

Obviously, you don't do that if you plan on Draining something on your first main phase and using the Drain mana in your second main phase. If that is the case, and they let your probe spell resolve, then you are still a step ahead.

Great article Brian. Again, there wasn't alot of shockingly new concepts to one who has played Mana Drain for many years, however, it was very refreshing and a nice reminder. The Brainstrom section, I felt, was the best part and would warrent a whole article in it self.

I don't play CS, however, I do play Gifts and 4cc decks though, and always thought playing the moxen out was the better play. Obviously holding on the Mana Crypt until needed is the better play, but the moxen always seem like they are worth more in play than in your hand, but I digress. Super article, keep them coming!
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2006, 02:41:42 pm »

I have a question for FFY:
Let's say you keep this hand after a mull: Fetch, basic Island, Mox Pearl, Welder, 2 Thirst and you're on the play against an unknown opponent.
What's your play?  Fetch, Welder?  Island, pass?  What if you have a Brainstorm?  What if the Welder is a Shaman?

I would try for fetch, Welder, but is that just the noob in my talking?

I also always forget to move to second main step. 

Finally, what's a Marna Drain deck? Wink

I Marna Drain deck is similar to a Mana Drain deck only it opts to play Marna Drain over Mana Drain Wink

With an opening hand like that; and assuming that you actually have no idea what your opponent is playing there are really two ways that a hand can be played out.  Usually, an opponent will reveal part of his deck while shuffling, or you will have seen him playing in the event somewhere, or one of your teamates can usually tell you before the match what somebody is playing...  However this hand is tricky with completely unknown information.

On completely unkown information I would probably play Fetch, Mox, pass.  Playing the Mox gets around a potential Chalice, and that Fetch protects you from a turn one Wasteland.  Remember the dubs Thirsts in hand are going to be useless if your opponent sets you back on Mana.  On turn one Goblin Welder really isn't much of a threat in any match up, unless they don't hit your Volcanic Island, the Thirst Resolves, and you draw fat.  In my opinion the most important objective of this hand is to try and resolve Thirst.  If you put up Fetch, Mox on turn one, and then turn two play the Volc and cast Thirst on your mainphase there is no way that can have put Drain mana up yet.  Even if you are playing against a Slaver deck with Leak, you haven't been Drained so you are behind but not out.  Or, if you see a Tropical Island or Orchard, or suspect your opponent is representing Leak, you could wait until his end step to cast the first TFK, and then untap and try to Thirst again.  The second Thirst should resolve if you tap them out.  If it doesn't he is a MASTIA. 

However if I had Shaman against an unknown deck I would play that sucker right out with the Volcanic and hold the Mox back.  This allows you to answer any number of Chalice of the Voids or Moxes.  They will undoubtably hold their Moxes unless they are casting something.  It stunts their Mana and will allow you to cast TFK unopposed during your mainphase.  The ruination of this hand involves them playing a Wasteland and you not drawing more land;  however, playing out the Shaman is a proactive answer to Chalice of the Void on one which is even more problemeatic for SLaver to answer.  You have lots more lands to draw, but limited answer for Chalice of the Void.

Excellent article. I'm very glad of the timing, as well, since my first steps into Vintage are with Drains in hand. I've found some of your tips (declaring no attackers) out myself in testing, as I screwed that one up, and haven't done it again since. I do have one question though, in regards to the Drain mirror.

You have a full grip, with relevant cards being Drain, Force, a blue spell, and a Slaver. You are attempting to cast a spell (say Welder), and you know your opponent has the ability to Force with Drain backup. Basically, if Welder resolves you win. In what order, and responding to what counters, do you play out this situation?

It is difficult to say, I'd probably just let the Welder get countered because I value all of the blue cards in Slaver more highly than I value Welder.  (Echoing truth aside)  There are an abundence of Welders in the deck and as long as you can continue to chain draw spells, and force your opponent to counter your one casted cost, loosely termed, "threats." you actually just win anyways.  I use Drain with Force to back up draw spells, or stop opposing bombs from going through, or if I need Mana to do something broken like Slaver activate.  I wouldn't ususally try to Force his Drain, and then Drain his comeback Force to go for a Slaver activate though, it is really risky and if he doesn't have the hand you thought he did, you end up wasting a really important blue card and not making the mana to Slaver and activate that turn.

Cheers,
FFY

@ Kyle L.  Yeah those games were really nutty.  I can't tell you how many times I won at GenCon by DTing for Gorilla Shaman and shutting down a Gifts players T Academy and getting on the monkey rush.  To be fair though, you absolutely CRUSHED my teamate Windfall in a game that I thought he had you shut out of by Tinker/Colossusing with no counter magic against his hand of Seven cards no counterspells!  Good times though!  BTW thanks for the kind comments, I appreciate that.

B.
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« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2006, 03:20:54 pm »

I :  An uncracked fetch land is a Mana Drain player’s best friend.
You also forgot to add "(or their worst enemy)"

So few mana drain players actually count how much mana their opponent has available to cast spells. Consider, as an example, the following hypothetical, in which you know your opponent is playing a drain based deck:

Opponent: 5 cards in hand, Island, fetch, mox jet on board
You: mox, mana vault, island on board, In hand: Fact or Fiction, Thirst for Knowledge, Brainstorm, Force of Will

At the end of your turn, your opponent cracks their fetchland. Aha! opportunity. At this point, they are shut off drain mana. Cracking a fetchland means temporarily "losing" a mana when you're being proactive.

Along the same lines, many people allow solomoxen to hit, without giving proper thought to the fact that if a mana drain player plays a mox, you can respond with a must counter, and buy yourself a turn, to follow up with a second must-counter.

However, I have to say, this is a very well written piece, and many would do well to read both it, and the original article on the subject by Kevin.

Remember that by sitting on fetches you're more and more cutting yourself into a reactive position. If you then attempt to reverse and become pro-active, you may find that you're down too much mana temporarily.
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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2006, 10:58:45 pm »


@ Kyle L.  Yeah those games were really nutty.  I can't tell you how many times I won at GenCon by DTing for Gorilla Shaman and shutting down a Gifts players T Academy and getting on the monkey rush.  To be fair though, you absolutely CRUSHED my teamate Windfall in a game that I thought he had you shut out of by Tinker/Colossusing with no counter magic against his hand of Seven cards no counterspells!  Good times though!  BTW thanks for the kind comments, I appreciate that.

Dont forget that he cast skeletal scrying for 6 after a yawgmoth's will on the previous turn... I was absolutetly shocked that the tinker wasnt countered. However, the 1st game wasnt as close...

However, my memory isnt perfect of 1/2 the main event of Gencon, because of my effort to try and find Ray R. Lost power...

Kyle L.
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« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2006, 05:12:56 am »

The Fetchland "Blunder" scenerio only happens if you take yourself off Drain Mana or incorrectly make use of your Mana.  If you are tapping right and leave two blue up while you fetch, the only thing that they can do that even remotely affects your plans is cast two instant speed bombs in a row while you are Fetching. 

But you are correct, it is important to do things in the right oreder and make sure you don't cut yourself off double Blue.

The most important thing to remember is don't fetch youself off double blue during an you end step, that can often times result in gigantic disasters.  When on my endstep a novice player cracks a Fetchland to thin his deck, taking himself off double blue, I almost always win that game as a result of this poor play happening.  More often than not the reason that this scenerio occurs isn't because a player is leaving his fetches in play, but rather because he is arbitrarily fetching for deck thinning purposes and doesn't realize he is taking himself off double blue.

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« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2006, 05:32:11 am »

Cracking a fetchland in your next upkeep rather than opponent's end step will give you the same suffling/thinning effect, but with more mana untapped while doing so.
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« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2006, 10:23:52 am »

I think when you wrote this you mean 1st main phase? Because, that way... if you do drain there FoW you would have 5 mana on your second main phase to cast the treats like will/tinker if you have just 1 blue mana availible. Which is extremely deadly if you do not pass the turn, because that way they have no recovery room, and obviously no counters left availible if drain resolved on FoW.
No, I am pretty sure he had it right. By declaring an attack step with no creatures, it is obvious he either has a mana drain and wants his mana next turn, or he is stone cold bluffing. This bluff won't work if you actually have creatures in play though...
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« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2006, 02:21:42 pm »

I think when you wrote this you mean 1st main phase? Because, that way... if you do drain there FoW you would have 5 mana on your second main phase to cast the treats like will/tinker if you have just 1 blue mana availible. Which is extremely deadly if you do not pass the turn, because that way they have no recovery room, and obviously no counters left availible if drain resolved on FoW.
No, I am pretty sure he had it right. By declaring an attack step with no creatures, it is obvious he either has a mana drain and wants his mana next turn, or he is stone cold bluffing. This bluff won't work if you actually have creatures in play though...

Ya, I looked at his explanation in a different context, and though more about tricking people by casting in 1st main phase, instead of putting them off guard by going to 2nd main phase. I notice that a good percentage of magic players dont even declare phases and have opponents just assume its 2nd main phase unless stated otherwise (sinse the attack phase doesnt truly exist in most games).

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« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2006, 02:56:15 pm »

However, according to the rules it is assumed that you are in your first main phase unless you declare otherwise.
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« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2006, 02:58:13 pm »

However, according to the rules it is assumed that you are in your first main phase unless you declare otherwise.

Yeah, I was going to remind people that there was a discussion on this a while back, and no it's not an asshole thing to do to maintain that spells are cast in FMP unless otherwise stated. It's in the rules, so a judge will always rule this way (at least, competent ones). Keeping track of the game state means assuming its FMP.
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« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2006, 03:33:58 pm »

One thing also of note.

Mana Drain is a triggered ability, so at the beginning of the next main phase, if the person "forgets" they have the mana, you should remind them about the trigger.

I have heard people thoughts on the issue and really, one can not "forget" about the Mana Drain mana, because it is a trigger and uses the stack, so both players would have to pass before play can continue. This is also where one could Stifle the Mana Drain trigger.
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« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2006, 04:03:24 pm »

There is a very in depth thread about this very subject in the rules forum, started by me, titled Mana Drain a Rules Nightmare.  If anybody wishes for further clarification on rulings regarding Mana Drain's delayed triggered ability feel free to check it out.

Cheers
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« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2006, 09:46:25 am »

However, according to the rules it is assumed that you are in your first main phase unless you declare otherwise.
This actually happened to me against Demars in our Quarter Finals game at the last SCG. I tried a main phase spell, and forgot to declare it in my second main phase, he counters it with Force of Will I think, and I mana drain it, taking 5 mana burn in my second main phase. Not the greatest play ever. However, even Demars burnt off Mana Drain mana, after casting a couple of spells mind you Smile Anyway, awesome article, very helpful. Most of it is common sense, like don't be casting turn 1 Brainstorm, or cracking fetches for no reason. But still, very good.
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« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2006, 12:46:35 pm »

Regarding Brainstorm, I think one of the most frequent tough calls with the card is whether to Brainstorm when you won't be able to shuffle until next turn (so you will draw one of the two cards you put back) or to wait a turn and shuffle away two cards.  If you have a Brainstorm, a fetch, and an Island in your opening you are going to face this choice.  It probably comes down to the quality and nature of the other cards in your hand, but I am curious what others think about this.
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« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2006, 07:22:17 am »

Unless you have a hand that wins first turn with another mox (can't imagine what this could possibly be), I would say that brainstorming on your turn, on the play, is a bad idea.

Maybe... Blue land, Brainstorm, Lotus, Mana Crypt, Time Walk, Tinker, Yawg's Will...hoping to get...Lion's eye?  I have no idea.  Yeah, I can't think of a scenario where you would want to brainstorm on your turn on the play with a Gifts-like build.

Maybe if you had Tinker/blue land/sapphire, and you knew your opponent could absolutely not stop you first turn, but has like a million counters especially at the 1cc level, and could not stop Colossus (no maindeck bounce), I guess then you might try the brainstorm for two moxes/mana crypt, but how often will that happen?
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« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2006, 10:47:36 am »

Well, my question wasn't about playing Brainstorm mainphase, but rather whether you play on your opponent's first EOT or wait until next EOT when you can fetch immediately afterwards.  A similar situation can arise at any time in the game, but first turn is a common time for it.

Regarding first turn mainphase Brainstorms, I used to think that they were always the wrong play.  My thinking has changed over the past year.  If you have a hand where one card is an obvious throw-back (Burning Wish, Recoup, Darksteel) and you intend to play Brainstorm on your opponent's EOT, why NOT play Brainstorm on your mainphase.  Your play on the Brainstorm is dictated by your hand anyway, you aren't going to keep the Wish, Recoup, DSC no matter what your opponent plays first turn.  Playing it mainphase lets you play out Moxen before Chalice can hit and gives you the chance to find something really broken.  Every hand in Gifts is potentially a Brainstorm away from winning the game right away.  I have Brainstormed into first turn Tinkers, Time Walks, even Burning Wish->Mind Twist for 5.

Think about it this way: when do you play Ancestral Recall?  If you have a Mox in hand it is clearly correct to play it first mainphase.  You might play it on opponent's upkeep, but only to avoid discarding.  When you have an obvious weak card (or two) to put back, Brainstorm is Ancestral Recall.

The only caveat I can see is that if your opponent is playing Duress this approach is clearly wrong.  But I would argue that it is clearly right against Chalices.  The difficult decision is how to play it when you don't know what your opponent is playing.

Leo
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