Ichorid

[UniversalSnip]

I'm amazed it took this long to get a thread on this topic (you t1 players have an INCREDIBLY slow rate of adoption.) There's a discussion of the dredge mechanic, but it's mostly about some nonsense with hermit druid, which seems bad to me. Bazaar is so much more efficient.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=574669

My modified version of ynaht's build:

// Manabase
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Underground Sea
    4 Cephalid Coliseum
    1 Badlands
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Chrome Mox
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Black Lotus

// Discard Outlets
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Psychatog
    1 Zombie Infestation

// Dredge Engine
    4 Ichorid
    3 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    1 Darkblast
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Deep Analysis

// Broken Stuff
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Time Walk
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Windfall
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Wheel of Fortune

I don't claim this is anywhere near optimal (for example, the first thing you should do is cut the third anal for some staple I missed. I can't imagine not having four needles sideboard for crypt as well).

I wouldn't bother posting it at all, but while playing this against myself with GWS Oath, it was completely mauling the Orchard deck in game after game. Any creature based strategy capable of doing that is worth a second look. It has some very broken openings and really only needs one permanent out to operate, which should be good against stax.

I leave it up to your capable hands to sort out the details.

[Outlaw]

This needs brainstorm... Turn one bazaar pitching like grave trolls or whatever, then brainstorm and dredge each draw, fill the bin up insanely fast then swing turn after turn.

[Thug]

I'm amazed it took this long to get a thread on this topic (you t1 players have an INCREDIBLY slow rate of adoption.)

Maybe it's because people are working on lists that aren't as terrible as the one you just posted:

Psychatog is too expensive at 1UB, since you want to Bazaar asap. And Tog isn't faster than multiple hasted 3/1's
Crop Rotation is a no-brainer
At least 1 Life from the Loam should be in there, and probably an Entomb
Putrid Imp is debatle at least, does the fact that it is a black body really make it better than Careful Study? Dont think so
Krokikan Horror is amazing in this deck, sharing synergy with multiple cards.
To back up Ichorid you should be running Ashen Ghoul, which is maybe even better than Ichorid.
You should be running much more disruption, like Duress and Chalice/Null Rod.

I don't think Windfall and Wheel belong, since you cant go broken off them, where any Combo deck, but even Control-Combo deck can just win off the refreshed hand.

I think this would be a much better list to start of with:

2 Bayou
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
0-3 Other Fetch/Basics
1 Strip Mine
4 Bazaar of Baghdad

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
0 Sol Ring (has no use at all)

Than a choice between either Null Rod/Chalice and more lands or off-coloured moxes

0-1 Stinkweep Imp
4 Grave Troll (6>5), you want one a.s.a.p.
0-2 Zombie Infestation (I dont really think these are neccesairry, and rarely used them in testing)
4 Ichorid
4 Ashen Ghoul
4 Krovikan Horror
0-3 Squee (depending on other card choices)

3-4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy (the absolute bomb of this deck, would run 8 if possible)

2-3 Careful Study
0-x Brainstorm, this is never a bad card ,but the deck is pretty tight.
0-2 Deep Analysis (This cards becomes much better with more off-coloured moxes)

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Vamp Tutor
0-1 Imperial Seal
0-1 Entomb
1 Demonic Tutor
0-1 Yawgmoth's Will (I rarely used it, but still: it's Will)
1 Crop Rotation
1-2 Life from the Loam

If you add up all the cards you will get around 70 cards, so cards like Brainstorm and Zombie Infestation never made it into my lists, but they should be considered at least.

---

Your upkeep should take longer than the rest of your turn most of the time.
Keep in mind that Ashen Ghoul can be activated at any time during your upkeep, and that you can respond to Ichorid triggering.
Also if you Bazaar during your upkeep dredging a Troll you can discard it immediatly and Dredge it again in your draw phase.

I think this should give a much better start for this archtype, and it deserves that,

Koen

[forests failed you]

I am currious as to what your game plan against cards like Tormod's Crypt is. 

Almost evey board of every deck plays this card to deal with CS, Dragon, Tendrils, and Crucible;  have you considered a plan against this yet?

[UniversalSnip]

@running brainstorm: damn right.

@forcefieldyou: Side in needle and pray. If rod/chalice make it md that would be some good vs crypt as well.

I'm amazed it took this long to get a thread on this topic (you t1 players have an INCREDIBLY slow rate of adoption.)

Maybe it's because people are working on lists that aren't as terrible as the one you just posted:

Well I'm glad this thread got someone to post one *for the first time* :rolleyes:.

Psychatog is too expensive at 1UB, since you want to Bazaar asap. And Tog isn't faster than multiple hasted 3/1's

Heh, in about five games I've only cast tog once, and that was off a will with 50ish cards in my graveyard.
Crop Rotation is a no-brainer

At least 1 Life from the Loam should be in there, and probably an Entomb

I can't imagine wanting either of those. You don't need lands once you're going and recurring bazaar is win more.

Putrid Imp is debatle at least, does the fact that it is a black body really make it better than Careful Study? Dont think so

Huh?

That's like saying careful study is better than wild mongrel. You have to use the discard multiple times. Study will screw you.

Krokikan Horror is amazing in this deck, sharing synergy with multiple cards.

That sounds good if you have the mana. Half the time you won't, mind you.

To back up Ichorid you should be running Ashen Ghoul, which is maybe even better than Ichorid.

Good, but again, costs mana. Mana costs = bad. You should be able to kill your opponent with nothing but bazaar or imp out. I'm not saying it shouldn't be in here, but it's not going to get ichorid out of the deck.

You should be running much more disruption, like Duress and Chalice/Null Rod.

Works for me.

I don't think Windfall and Wheel belong, since you cant go broken off them, where any Combo deck, but even Control-Combo deck can just win off the refreshed hand.

Oh, you can go broken off them. I beg you to try these, they're MUCH better than they look.

2 Bayou
4 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
0-3 Other Fetch/Basics
1 Strip Mine <---- Cute but bad
4 Bazaar of Baghdad

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
0 Sol Ring (has no use at all) <---- Fair enough

Than a choice between either Null Rod/Chalice and more lands or off-coloured moxes

0-1 Stinkweep Imp
4 Grave Troll (6>5), you want one a.s.a.p. <---- Wrong. The black body matters ENORMOUSLY
0-2 Zombie Infestation (I dont really think these are neccesairry, and rarely used them in testing) <---- I agree
4 Ichorid
4 Ashen Ghoul
4 Krovikan Horror <---- Four? Not a chance
0-3 Squee (depending on other card choices) <---- Squee is awful in here

3-4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy (the absolute bomb of this deck, would run 8 if possible) <---- god yes. as a rule if you resolve this you win. If you don't, well, pray.

2-3 Careful Study <---- Also no
0-x Brainstorm, this is never a bad card ,but the deck is pretty tight. <---- Much better than study. Should find room for it
0-2 Deep Analysis (This cards becomes much better with more off-coloured moxes) <---- I think two. Three is definately too much

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Vamp Tutor
0-1 Imperial Seal
0-1 Entomb <---- bad. You would only use this if you had a discard outlet but couldn't find a dredge card, yet you haven't maxed stinky
1 Demonic Tutor
0-1 Yawgmoth's Will (I rarely used it, but still: it's Will)
1 Crop Rotation <---- very good addition
1-2 Life from the Loam <---- very bad addition

If you add up all the cards you will get around 70 cards, so cards like Brainstorm and Zombie Infestation never made it into my lists, but they should be considered at least.

---

Your upkeep should take longer than the rest of your turn most of the time.
Keep in mind that Ashen Ghoul can be activated at any time during your upkeep, and that you can respond to Ichorid triggering.
Also if you Bazaar during your upkeep dredging a Troll you can discard it immediatly and Dredge it again in your draw phase.

I think this should give a much better start for this archtype, and it deserves that,

Koen

EDIT: Quick rework.

// Lands
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Underground Sea
    4 Cephalid Coliseum
    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    1 Tropical Island

// Creatures
    3 Golgari Grave-Troll
    4 Stinkweed Imp
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Ichorid
    3 Psychatog
    2 Ashen Ghoul

// Spells
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Time Walk
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Chrome Mox
    4 Cabal Therapy
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Darkblast
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Crop Rotation
    1 Imperial Seal

I want Windfall back in (you don't lose when you resolve it. seriously) and I still need to fit in the chalices, rods or duresses.

[Moxlotus]

I question your Oath opponent.  I fail to see how your deck witha  whopping 4 disruption spells were beating oath.  I say this from actually playing Oath vs. Bazaar based Dredge decks and having Oath own up until Bazaar added several maindeck bounce spells specifically to deal with the matchup.

You have nothing to stop combo or combo-control from just goldfishing you.

[UniversalSnip]

I question your Oath opponent.  I fail to see how your deck witha  whopping 4 disruption spells were beating oath.  I say this from actually playing Oath vs. Bazaar based Dredge decks and having Oath own up until Bazaar added several maindeck bounce spells specifically to deal with the matchup.

"my oath opponent" was me. Frankly there isn't a lot of playskill to naming oath with therapy and then winning on either side of the table.

I cannot stress enough how powerful therapy is in this deck. Every game I resolved it against oath (EDIT: now that I think about, against a couple of decks) I won. Every game I didn't I lost. It was that simple.

I just happened to therapy a lot, especially when I started mullying for it. So much I only lost one game EDIT: out of six.

If oath did indeed turn out to be a difficult matchup (and it might. I may have just gotten lucky - it happens) it wouldn't remain so with a little help from ray of revelation.

Ok, one more EDIT: Also, if you're adding echo or whatever to the md of ichorid you don't understand the deck. At all.

[Chiz]

I played in a local Tourney this weekend (42 players) and I placed top8 with my dredge deck whitout any plastesting with it (only goldfishing...). It worked very well, but the deck isn't optimal for now (My only platesting was my tourney).  I choose a more aggressive way for the deck as you may see. Here was my build:

Dredges cards (10):
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Life from the Loam

Discard Outlet (10):
2 Breakthrough
4 Putrid Imp
4 Bazaar of Bagdad

Card Advantage / Tempo (6):
4 Deep Analysis
1 Ancestrall Recall
1 Time Walk

Disruption (4):
4 Cabal Therapy

Win Conditions (11):
4 Ashen Ghoul
4 Ichorid
3 Spychatog

Mana Sources (19)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Tropical Island
1 Strip Mine
3 Bayou
3 Polluted Delta
1 BloodStained Mire
4 Underground Sea


I really liked the Golgary grave-Troll and the Stinkweed Imp... I can't imagine to play without 4 of each maindeck (I sideboarded out 1 Grave-Troll a lot of time though...).  You can't play with 0-1 Stinkweed Imp... These Imps are really good, they have a high dredge AND they bring back Ichoroid when you have Grave-Troll to dredge.

The Ashen Ghoul / Ichorid are the main kill condition in the deck, Psychatog being the third. But with that configuration, Psychatog are pretty hard to cast, 3 mana is a lot of mana for this deck, because you virtually don't draw a card after your opening hand, you want to dredge as much as you can. The Deep Analysis / 5 Mox configuration is really good, it helps to kill a lot faster (since when you start your dredge, you will probably dredge for 11-12 cards with a Deep Analysis).

I choose Putrid Imp over Zomby Infestation mainly because Putrid Imp is easier to play first turn and can bring back Ichorid when the dredge is started.


After my tourney, here are some modifications I want to playtest:

- Add Tolarian Wind to the deck. Tolarian Wind can do broken dredge 1st or 2nd turn, since you discard before you draw (So you can dredge the cards that are in your hand). They are maybe probably better than Breakthrough (I didn't playtest Tolarian Wind so far...)
- Add a Lion Eye's Diamond. That's a very good discard outlet and helps casting a Flashback Deep Analysis
- Add Entomb. Entomb seems to be a good tutor for the deck. You may search for a Grave-Troll / Ichorid / Ashen Ghoul / Therapy / Deep Analysis and more at Instant speed, which may not be so bad.
- Cut a Psychatog. Psychatog are very powerfull in this deck, but very hard to cast...
- Add Chrome Mox / Mox Diamond to the deck
- Cut the Tropical Island. Tropical Island is bad because it doesn't produce black mana... You want a lot of black mana to bring back Ashen Ghoul when you start to dredge.
- Add a basic swamp. This deck is very vulnerable to Wasteland, It happened 3 times in the tourney that I had no lands in play after starting dredging (But I still won 2 of these games, thanks to Ichorid and the draw step that let you dredge for 5-6 cards!  )

I think that this deck may perform well, and is very fun to play...

I am currious as to what your game plan against cards like Tormod's Crypt is.

If a crypt is in play, your game plan is to dredge a little (like 5-6 cards a turn max) and bring back only 1-2 Ichorid / Ashen Ghoul to play and/or to "bait" their crypt with Deep Analysis / Spychatog. It is important to keep a Dredge card in your hand... If you have Bazaar out, you will be able to go off after crypt pretty easily (but it certainly slow you down...).
If you fear that they will bring a crypt into play, well side in Pithing Needle. If you don't have a needle, wait until their Eot to activate your bazaar / cast Tolarian Wind to dredge... That's what I'll do I think (i only face it once, and I bait it with 1 Ichorid, 1 Ashen Ghoul, 1 Therapy and 1 Deep Analysis, with Bazaar in play and 1 Ichorid in hand and 1 Grave-Troll... I was able to combo off with that.).   Thomord's Crypt slow a lot the deck, but you are able to play around it. Planar Void / Leyline of the Void is another thing, pretty bad for this deck...

I question your Oath opponent.  I fail to see how your deck witha  whopping 4 disruption spells were beating oath.  I say this from actually playing Oath vs. Bazaar based Dredge decks and having Oath own up until Bazaar added several maindeck bounce spells specifically to deal with the matchup.

You have nothing to stop combo or combo-control from just goldfishing you.

For the oath matchup, you add Ray of revelation to your sideboard. I didn't play this matchup, but that would certainly helps.

For combo, you need 4 CotV sideboard and maybe Null Rods...

[Thug]

Gladd we got at least some disscussion  

I am currious as to what your game plan against cards like Tormod's Crypt is.  

Null Rod/Chalice to start with, and Needle from the sideboard give you something to work with.
Tormods Crypt backup up by a welder is pretty horrid though.

I can't imagine wanting either of those. You don't need lands once you're going and recurring bazaar is win more.

It's a single slot in the deck that gives you a lot more options in games, this single cards by itself improves your late-game a lot.
Most of the time you will just be dredging this away, and you shouldn't need it if you're winning.
But it's a backup that allows for some other nice interaction.
For one, it makes Entomb and Crop much better because they can fetch Strip giving you a nice Strip + Null Rod/Chalice lock option.
I rather have a Loam that recures Bazaar on top of many other things than an Imp that really does nothing but let you pitch Troll.

Huh?

That's like saying careful study is better than wild mongrel. You have to use the discard multiple times. Study will screw you.

I mulligan pretty aggresive with this deck, since it doesn't perform without a Bazaar the way it should.
You will rarely win games by dropping an Imp and dreding for several turns, this works in slower formats but not in vintage.
The only way it might work it when you have Chalices and Therapies to keep your opponent busy, but I think mulliganning aggresivly if the way to go.
Study draws and digs, where an Imp only becomes useful by skipping draws, thats the difference.
You might keep a hand with Study, but you never should keep a hand just because it has Imp in it.

Krokikan Horror is amazing in this deck, sharing synergy with multiple cards.

I wasn't even talking about hardcasting this, although it might happen in really hard-fought-over games.
It has synergy with Bazaar,
It has synergy with dredge in general
It has synergy with Ichorid

Good, but again, costs mana. Mana costs = bad. You should be able to kill your opponent with nothing but bazaar or imp out. I'm not saying it shouldn't be in here, but it's not going to get ichorid out of the deck.

I think Ashen Ghoul is better than Ichorid in this deck, mostly becuase of timing issues which often make this a full turn faster than Ichorid.
But they shouldn't replace Ichorids, not at all, you need all these beats.
It's a single black mana for a Hasted 3/1 that sticks, what more can you ask for?
All you have to do with mana is casting BS/Study, Duress, Therapy and recurring Ashen (Aside from singles and restricted goodies)

1 Strip Mine <---- Cute but bad

This cards spells "Time Walk" most of the time, especially if you have Rod/Chalice.
Tempo is a good thing for this deck, and the synergy with Loam is just a bonus

0-3 Squee (depending on other card choices) <---- Squee is awful in here

Squee can see play in combination with Infestation, but I don;t think it's worth it.
I just wanted to keep open multiple options.

0-1 Entomb <---- bad. You would only use this if you had a discard outlet but couldn't find a dredge card, yet you haven't maxed stinky

It a very universal card, yet never incredibly powerfull, it can get things from Ichorid/Ashen to Strip/Bazaar but also Loam/Troll/Imp and not importantly Therapy
Personally I like it, because it's almost never bad, and it gives the deck much more options.

----

I might be wrong running only 6-7 dredge cards, and I can defenitly see a benefit by adding some more Imps, but it's hard to find room
Oh and I missed the Darkblast in my list of options, I actually have one in my list.

I think the key to make this deck work is enough Disruption.
The good thing about this is that the deck is hardly slowed down by adding disruption

Koen

P.s.:

A good thing about the deck is that Oath is a near-bye:
Ichorids and Therapies mess up their normal gameplan, and Ray from the sideboard is just brutal.

[Lunar]

There's a discussion of the dredge mechanic, but it's mostly about some nonsense with hermit druid, which seems bad to me. Bazaar is so much more efficient

That list HAS bazaar in it...but no biggie...

the dredge article and thread was intended to get people discussing things there...and they were, both druid and druid-less...your opening of another thread seems pointless to me since there is already discussion about this EXACT thing there...you could easily have posted this in that thread, with your pros and cons on the hermit in the deck and why you would run with what you had...

nice in theory, bad in execution.

[cssamerican]

I haven't really played the deck, but I am intrested so I have a couple of questions.

1.) Why is Careful Study better than Mental Note in this deck? Is it because it digs deeper? Is it because it allows you to discard from your hand? (If those are the reasons then why not play 4 Breakthrough) I was just wondering because Mental Note can help build your hand without losing card advantage. While that doesn't seem too important when you goldfish, it would seem somewhat important when you are slow playing to get around hate. Am I totally off-base with this?

2.) Why are you playing Deep Analysis? It is too expensive to hard cast, it is sorcery speed so you can't use it in response to Tormod's Crypt, and it is a huge Mana Drain target. What is the upside of this card in this deck because it seems like everyone automatically makes it a four of?

[Godot]

Im just back on my lunch break from work and I havent read this entire thread, but this was the list I had when I stopped working on the idea:

//11 Draw-discard outlets
4 Bazaar
4 Tolarian Winds
3 Careful Study

//10 Dredge
4 Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Golgari Thug

//11 Kill cards
4 Ichorid
4 Psychatog
1 Ashen Ghoul
2 Wonder

//11 Draw+Disruption
3 Deep Analysis
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Chalice of the Void

//10 Land
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
1 Island

//7 Mana artifacts
7 MC LoMox

After testing a TON of different cards I've found that this list is so tight, and needs to be so redundant to work properly that you cant stand cards that dont fit your basic strategy.  Each card must do one or more of the following:
i) give you mana
ii) have some sort of graveyard synergy like dredge, flashback, recursion, or damage
iii) it must make you  draw AND discard
iv) be strong, cheap disruption

Ancestral Recall is the lone exception to these rules.  I would add to this that you CAN NOT have cards that cost more than 2 mana.  Since your goal is stop drawing any real cards you need the mana in your opening hand to carry you for the entire game so you cant stand anything that costs more than 2 mana. 

I'll write up a more detailed commentary on my choices later, but I just thought I'd throw that out there for y'all.

I am currious as to what your game plan against cards like Tormod's Crypt is.

Almost evey board of every deck plays this card to deal with CS, Dragon, Tendrils, and Crucible;  have you considered a plan against this yet?

The most common gameplan against Crypt is losing.  Even if you bring in Null Rod/Needle/Chalice to fight against it any Welder deck will just weld out the disruption and other decks will goldfish past you anyway.

[pyr0ma5ta]

Brainstorm is terrible.  You don't want to put the trolls back on top of your library after dredging them, you want them back in the grave.

Deep Analysis is awesome when you flash it to dredge 12.  It's not so good when it gets drained.  That's why you therapy for drain first.  In fact, Careful Study is even better when in hand because it's dredge 12, and then get the trolls back in the grave.  Unfortunately, it does nothing when dredged out, so Deep has a home.  Just watch out for Drain.

All in all, Ichorid is terrible even in extended where nobody plays crypt.  It can't play past a single resolved Morningtide.  In a format where everyone packs Crypt, I can't see you doing anything but losing with this deck.  Sorry.  Come back when you've worked out a turn 2 goldfish without spells, since that's the strongest advantage of this deck.

[49 Cents]

Null Rod and Chalice are pretty bad against decks that run Welders. Needle might help, but that means the first one has to go on Welder, and how often do you find a second one?

[ReAnimator]

I'm amazed it took this long to get a thread on this topic (you t1 players have an INCREDIBLY slow rate of adoption.)

acctually this has been brought up in like 6 different threads over the past 2 months

[Chiz]

Godot: Your list is interresting, but your creature base is wrong I think. You should play with more Ashen Ghoul and less Psychatog. Psychatog are hard to play (3 mana cost is a lot) and Ashen Ghoul are really cheap and you find them easily when you dredge! 2 Wonder seems wrong to me too, angainst who you want to be flying?  And a 4th Cabal Therapy is a must, this is a really good card in that deck... And Time Walk is a really good card that alow you to kill 1 turn faster

2.) Why are you playing Deep Analysis? It is too expensive to hard cast, it is sorcery speed so you can't use it in response to Tormod's Crypt, and it is a huge Mana Drain target. What is the upside of this card in this deck because it seems like everyone automatically makes it a four of?

While it isn't an Instant, you may still be able to cast a flashback Deep Analysis even if your opponent has a Crypt in play... In your main phase, discard it (With Bazaar, Careful Study) and then play the flashback. Your opponent would not have received priority, so he can't crypt you. But that would not work with Putrid Imp / Psychatog, since you discard as a cost of an activate ability. In that case, your opponent will receive priority before the trigger resolve, so he will be able to crypt you.
Anyway, when there is a Crypt in play, you really want it to be gone as soon as possible. If you can trade Deep Analysis and keep Grave-Troll / Ichorid / Ashen Ghoul in your hand instead, that's a good trade for you...

And yes it is hard to hardcast, but with 10 discard outlet, it is really easy to discard... And that's not a dead card it you mill one when you dredge.

[forests failed you]

@forcefieldyou: Side in needle and pray. If rod/chalice make it md that would be some good vs crypt as well.

Fair enough;  that was pretty much extended Ichorid's gameplan against a resolved Isochron's Scepter or Morning tide as well!  Hope they don't have it; or hope you have Oxidize.

[Nantuko Rice]

I played the following deck at Waterbury:

Ichor-Tog

3 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
8 Black Lotus/Chrome Mox/Lotus Petal/Five Moxes

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Tolarian Winds
4 Putrid Imp
4 Mesmeric Fiend
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-troll
4 Chalice Of The Void
4 Ichorid
3 Psychatog
1 Darkblast

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
3 Coffin Purge
2 Tormod Crypt
4 Powder Keg
3 Chain of Vapor

I'll post a more extensive elaboration on the deck and a report in a few days (after i get some of this damn college work done), but I felt like I had to post a short thing about my list because I'm seeing these damned ichorid decks everywhere that are horrible. I will tell you about some of my card choices below:

No Restricted Cards:
This deck is about consistency and not the power of singleton rares. The original decklist had... tinker, colossus, recall, walk, will, every damn tutor. They were all cut because they sucked when they were in your graveyard and that's what this deck wants to do, dump itself into the graveyard.

Compared to FCG:
FCG: Aggro-route viable, No disruption, Turn 2-3 kill
Ichorid: Non-Ichorid Aggro-route not effective, Disruption, Turn 3-4 kill

I chose to play this deck this Waterbury better because it has a disruption element that FCG doesn't have.

Matchup Analysis:
vs Stax. You insta-win unless they get Karn or Trike/Welder down.
Vs Control. You play discard to target all their draw spells and you ignore their counters.
Vs Aggro. Stinkweed Imp owns aggro of all sorts.

Unfortunately at Waterbury my first 5 matches were all against combo (tps and dragon), which I have minimal hate for.

Pyschatog:
His slot was heavily debated. Do I want zombie infestation, ravenous rats, dark confidant, or ashen ghoul? Inevitably I chose pyschatog even though I hated having a card that had 3cc (you almost never have more than 2 mana on the table). I needed a win condition other than ichorid just in case, and none of the other creatures beat better than tog.

Mesmeric Fiend:
Turn one fiend, turn two therapy/putrid imp, then sac putrid imp if necessary. That should put most blue decks into top deck mode. They draw one card while you "draw" 5-6 cards per turn.

Chalice of the Void:
Very cheap. No time to play null rod, so chalice. Also prevents crypt from being cast if they don't have it in their opening hand.

Tolarian Winds:
Personal preference over DAnal and CStudy due to sheer speed and power on a turn one winds.

Sideboard choices:
Powder keg: Good for game two to blow moxes, crypts, and needles. Works wonders on small creatures too. Bring back the kegs!
Coffin Purge/Crypt: Next time I'll take out the crypts and put in more coffin purges.
Chain of Vapor: Better to have angels and colossuses in their hands than their graveyards.
Pithing Needle: Random sideboard card I threw in.

Props:
Hatch for the deck box. GI for a chain of vapor. Outlaw for some psychatogs. Random steve guy for another chain of vapor. Travis for a chain of vapor he gave me from last waterbury. Jay Buda for togs/needles.

Slops:
Poor matchups. I wanted to top16 with my pile at least.

Questions? Comments?

EDIT: Oh yeah, this is the same list I came up with in late november/early december in case you guys heard about the rumors about zheng and his new tech deck that he stole from extended. I've just been saving it for a grand return to vintage, except it wasn't so grand.

[The Atog Lord]

I'm not sure that playing without Ancestral is a wonderful idea. Sure, when the deck is running along at full-speed, you don't get a benefit from dumping it into the yard. But that's not its role in a deck like this. The role, rather, is to help you when the deck isn't exactly doing the job you asked it to do. Ancestral helps get you that handsize you need in order to be able to start your engine. It is triplex dredge, allowing you to mill yourself for eighteen in the right situation. It finds Bazaar, it finds dredge cards, it finds mana. It makes up for two mulligants. In other words, even if Ancetral isn't an essential part of your gameplan, whatever that plan may be, it helps your plan fall into place.

A similar argument could perhaps be made for a few other cards, but Ancestral's exclusion seems exceptionally questionable.

BTW, weren't you supposed to quit like two tournaments ago?  Good to have the double champion back in the game.

[Sgt. Pepper]

A lot of Vintage Friggorid decklists I've seen here play with Ashen Ghoul. Did you consider that card? It seems like a much better card than the Psychatog since, like you said, the Tog is very slow.

Also, don't you miss Deep Analysis? Without a Bazaar your only able to dredge once with a Imp or after a Tolarian Winds. That doesn't seem very good. Same goes for Cephalid Coliseum, which is even better since you get tot discard those dredge cards back again.

As for your sideboard, have you considered running Ray of Revelation and Rifstone Portal for the Oath matchup? Wonder might also be nice since it only takes up one space in the sideboard but you'll see it often enough to own aggro with it.

Btw: thumbs up for trying something new, too bad you had lousy matchups.

[Nantuko Rice]

To answer two questions at once:
Yes I was suppose to quit many tournaments ago. But I saw this decklist on an extended forum surrounded by all this hype. It looked fun and interesting so I new I had to bring it to vintage somehow.

How often will I draw Ancestral Recall in my opening hand? If I could pick a card to replace from the maindeck, what would it be? Every card in the current maindeck plays a role.

-1 Tolarian Winds
+1 Ancestral Recall?

The rest of the restricted cards I will not even consider at all because they are helpful the longer the game has run (ie, yawg will, time walk (sucks as a cantrip in this deck))

Ashen Ghoul was indeed tested in the psychatog slot, ultimately I decided on the tog though. This way I have two game plans. I can go the "dump into graveyard and recur ichorid" route or the "play discard to pull counters and drop tog. feed tog." If I played the ghoul instead of tog, I would only have one route to victory. This alternative win route causes more trouble for the opponent. Tog also makes the race against colossus easier.

Wonder was tried, but ultimately cut. It lets me fly over defenders, but if I continue to smash into defenders, the way will eventually clear. Fish can only through so many chump blockers in the way of a 3/1.

Deep Analysis, Bazaar, Etc.
It's all about the matchups...
vs Aggro, they will wasteland my bazaar. I won't care because stinkweed imp trumps all aggro-strategies.
vs Control, they don't run wastes. You will have a 40% chance of bazaar in your opening hand. Not there? Land, Mox, Wind will let you see 4 more cards (unless you choose to dredge).

Other color combinations?
Blue only offers winds, tog, chain of vapor.
Red has artifact hate. Control of the Court and Goblin Lore.
Green offers a very aggro-version. But the green version would be ichorid-less. Mongrel is a suitable replacement for psychatog. Since we're playing mongrel, might as well add rootwalla. Threshold, so how about werebear? Life of the Loam is also an excellent dredge card. In the end we end up with a B/G Weenie Rock-type deck. Could be worth a try.

I forgot to mention Nicolae Almighty in my props. He is the inventor of Wild Zomboes (very very interesting deck, I love it) and was one of the first persons I went to with my deck. We talked and shared ideas. Due to a shortage of time, I ended up just playing my original version but we had begun discussing a B/G version. (wild zombies is BGW btw)

[ReAnimator]

I forgot to mention Nicolae Almighty in my props. He is the inventor of Wild Zomboes (very very interesting deck, I love it) and was one of the first persons I went to with my deck. We talked and shared ideas. Due to a shortage of time, I ended up just playing my original version but we had begun discussing a B/G version. (wild zombies is BGW btw)

Ummm not that it really matters but i invented that deck.
Nicolae is definitley responsible for the most polished recent list which was arrived at with the help of others in the Wild Zombies thread, we had been talking about it together online but he did all the testing, i only had time to work off theory at the time.

[Nantuko Rice]

ahh. oops. my bad, thought he was the inventor guy.

[Chiz]

time walk (sucks as a cantrip in this deck))

Well... 1st turn Bazaar, 2nd turn Land Mox + Time Walk is really good!! You will dredge for something like 15+ card and be able to attack with more Ichorid / Ashen ghoul (If you play them) and probably play at least 1 more Cabal Therapy. That sucks!?

[Dralock]

To answer two questions at once:
Yes I was suppose to quit many tournaments ago. But I saw this decklist on an extended forum surrounded by all this hype. It looked fun and interesting so I new I had to bring it to vintage somehow.

How often will I draw Ancestral Recall in my opening hand? If I could pick a card to replace from the maindeck, what would it be? Every card in the current maindeck plays a role.

-1 Tolarian Winds
+1 Ancestral Recall?

The rest of the restricted cards I will not even consider at all because they are helpful the longer the game has run (ie, yawg will, time walk (sucks as a cantrip in this deck))

Ashen Ghoul was indeed tested in the psychatog slot, ultimately I decided on the tog though. This way I have two game plans. I can go the "dump into graveyard and recur ichorid" route or the "play discard to pull counters and drop tog. feed tog." If I played the ghoul instead of tog, I would only have one route to victory. This alternative win route causes more trouble for the opponent. Tog also makes the race against colossus easier.

I agree, I have tested with and without tog, and have found that the games tog resolves are games that I pretty much win.

Wonder was tried, but ultimately cut. It lets me fly over defenders, but if I continue to smash into defenders, the way will eventually clear. Fish can only through so many chump blockers in the way of a 3/1.

Unless you have ashen ghouls in your list, the realistic number of times you can pount with ichorid comes down to 14. If you have wonder, you are winning now instead of later. There isn't enough control in the deck to warrant waiting.

Deep Analysis, Bazaar, Etc.
It's all about the matchups...
vs Aggro, they will wasteland my bazaar. I won't care because stinkweed imp trumps all aggro-strategies.
vs Control, they don't run wastes. You will have a 40% chance of bazaar in your opening hand. Not there? Land, Mox, Wind will let you see 4 more cards (unless you choose to dredge).

DA and bazaar are the biggest power outside of winds in the deck. I don't see how it would matter what matchup you were going against outside of planar void.

Other color combinations?
Blue only offers winds, tog, chain of vapor.
Red has artifact hate. Control of the Court and Goblin Lore.
Green offers a very aggro-version. But the green version would be ichorid-less. Mongrel is a suitable replacement for psychatog. Since we're playing mongrel, might as well add rootwalla. Threshold, so how about werebear? Life of the Loam is also an excellent dredge card. In the end we end up with a B/G Weenie Rock-type deck. Could be worth a try.

Green is definitely an option, as is red. Hulk smash / dredge hybrid doesn't sound that bad. Flashing back recoup or just playing pillar can help in a lot of situations. Plus, viashino heretic comes in from the side to rape stax if they give you trouble.

[Nantuko Rice]

Darkblast is a good control card in the aggro matchup.

Planar void and non-tormod's crypt hate is very difficult to play against. Game 3 at Waterbury someone played a single copy of planar void in his sideboard. He tutored it up and I proceeded to lose. ANd with the new black/green leylines... I think taking this deck a green route would be a good idea to have ray of revelation as an option (except it needs to be in the graveyard before planar void comes down, and it won't do any good at all against the new leyline).

[Lunar]

pardon me if this is bad, but had any of you considered a 5color base to get all of the benefits you have considered? It would also make ray of revelation much better since you could then cast it from hand or yard...

just a thought, and pardon if this had already been discussed elsewhere...

[Nantuko Rice]

what benefit is there from a five color base
the only one i see is the ray of revelation

any creature that's not black is not good
any non-black creature spell better do a hell of alot. this deck is also like fcg because it needs a supply of black creatures

[PipOC]

what benefit is there from a five color base
the only one i see is the ray of revelation

any creature that's not black is not good
any non-black creature spell better do a hell of alot. this deck is also like fcg because it needs a supply of black creatures

Balance(in the side), Crop Rotation, Wheel of Fortune, possibly Shadow Guildmage against fish.  And of course the consistency of a 5-color manabase.

[And11]

Sorry, I don't have time for reading all of your replies. I just wanted to throw the list out there, that we tested the other night. Sometimes it does broken stuff, but it sure isn't consistent. You wanna be playing an outlet and Chalice turn one and start dredging by turn two, drop a Null Rod or flash back a DA, then pass the turn. Then by turn 3-5, you wanna smash face and win the game. But, even if it would do this consistent, is this enough to make it a contender? I don't think so.

beats: 8
4x Ichorid
4x other 3/1 guys

Dredge-Engine: 9
9x unknown names

Outlets: 8
4x Careful Study
4x Putrid Imp
0x Bazaar (I think all lands in here should produce mana and Bazaar will slow the deck down way too much)

Disruption: 11
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Chalice (You have to delay your opponent at a cheap cost)
3x Null Rod (Solid turn 2 play, if Chalice isn't in your opening grip)

Draw/borken: 6
4x Deep Anal
1x Ancestral
1x Walk

Mana: 18
4x Delta
4x Coliseum
3x Sea
2x Swamp
2x Island
2x Mox
1x Lotus

Sorry for the short post and good luck,
/ANDREAS