Thug
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« on: February 14, 2006, 05:33:30 pm » |
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Last Sunday I played this deck to a first place in the monthly Eindhoven tournament, going 7-0-1 total (one ID with my friend Arthur): TT Confidant Control v1.11 Library of Alexandria 1 Strip Mine 3 Underground Sea 4 Polluted Delta 2 Flooded Strand 2 Snow-Covered Island 4 Island 1 Swamp 1 Mox Emerald 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Ruby 1 Sol Ring 1 Black Lotus 1 Sensei’s Diving Top 1 Pithing Needle 1 Platinum Angel [MVP] 1 Darksteel Colossus 3 Dark Confidant 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Yawgmoth’s Will 4 Brainstorm 4 Mana Leak 4 Mana Drain 4 Force of Will 3 Thirst to Knowledge 1 Misdirection 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Echoing Truth 1 Tinker 1 Mystical Tutor 1 Time Walk Sideboard: 3 Annul 3 Mystic Remora 2 Energy Flux 3 Tormod’s Crypt 2 Darkblast 2 Piching Needle [/i] --- At first sight the deck resembles a lot to mono-u control, but it actually plays a lot different in most matchups. The best way to describe the deck is as a counter-heavy beast with 4 Tinkers, since you rarely tutor for anything else (Time Walk, Will and Ancestral (and Lotus I guess) are the only exceptions, but still I tutor for Tinker 75% of the Time) The deck is boring, yet effective. You counter some stuff that really scares you, let some other stuff resolve while finding Tinker and Resolve tinker with enough protection. It's surprisingly how often this works, and I won most of my games this way. The exceptions are games in which I tinkered up an early Colossus. --- For those interested here’s a short report: (It’s not all that exciting, since the deck is pretty boring, and every game looks alike) Round 1: U/W FishGame 1: He keeps a hand with just 1 land, and I punish him for that with my Strip Mine. By the time he gets some mana on the board and starts dropping creatures I have no problem tinkering up a Platinum and protecting it. Game 2: He goes land-go for a while, while I develop my board and mana-base. After a while I decide it has lasted long enough and resolve two Tinkers in one turn (go Will). Platinum and Collosus finish this game short after. 1-0 , 2-0 Round 2: Combo with ClampLeon build an interesting deck that worked pretty good against me, but since he didn’t make top8 I don’t think it performed consistently enough. Game 1: I have a great start with Island, Sapphire and Jet. I drain his first turn Swarm and eot Vamp for an Ancestral. Next turn I Ancestral and drop a Confidant and a Top. The top finds me a FoW and a Drain for his next two business spells and I get full control. Game 2: He resolves an early Defense Grid, and I keep drawing FoW’s after that. I’m just able to stop a single spell and he has little trouble powering through that with lots of Rituals and a Will. Game 3: On his second turn he once again has a couple of rituals and a Tutor for Will. After playing out his graveyard again he is one spell short of a lethal Tendrils. He fails to pop his lotus to replay the swarm from his graveyard, nor hoes he clamp his Shaman to find some more gas. So all he can do I get me down to 1 with a Tendrils for 18. He still has a Shaman in play though, so I better come up with something fast. Like a pro I rip Tinker from my Ancestral next turn, and the Platinum One appears. He thinks for a while, and remembers he still has one out. Despite having having a Confidant out I fail to draw counter spells and he gets to resolve a Twister, but he doesn’t find his out. So I Time Walk and tutor up my Will for the win. 2-0 , 4-1 Round 3: Arthur with TT Muddy BeatsWe drove to the tournament together and tested some last night, in which I seemed to have a small edge. We don’t feel like playing though since an ID at this point leaves us both in a very good position. We play some type 4, and scout a little: There are a lot of good matchups around the top tables for both of us including Gifts, CA and Slaver. 2-0-1 , 4-1 Round 4: G/R Hate/BeatsI don’t know how he found spots for creatures in the deck because he plays 4 Chalice, 4 Null Rod, 3 Mutation, 3 Naturalize, 4 Root Maze and some more hate. SB he also has Chokes and REB’s Game 1: He start beating with Kird Apes while I protect my non-basics with a Needle on Wasteland. When my life total start getting low I tinker up a Platinum with Leak backup for his mutation. Game 2: Once again I wait as long as possible before tinkering up an Angel. I have double counter backup and need it for 2 mutations. Next upkeep I vamp for a Drain and this turns out to be the key play because he tries for a third Mutation in his next turn. 3-0-1 , 6-1 Round 5: GiftsGame 1: He has an explosive start which is his only change in this matchup. He resolves a Gifts but I don’t think he knew he had to play very aggressive because he got 4 card-drawers. I already had a Confidant in play and resolved a second one after Time Walking. With so much card advantage I have little problem stopping his last effort Will (he actually pitched Ancestral to the FoW because he knew I had Misdirection) Game 2: He plays a first turn Walk, but misses his second land drop. Once again I take full profit from this by Stripping his only land. After drawing a land he puts up a surprising good fight, but in the end he succumbs to my mana superiority. 4-0-1 , 8-1 After these quick games we get into some amazing games of type 4, with up to 6 players. Some of the highlights: - Rudy (rvs) killed Arthur on Arthur’s first turn with a Searing Wind and a Quanar. - I get out a Platinum with lethal damage on the stack, and can’t cast a spell for the reminder of the game because I have to keep Stifle up for an Aladdin’s Ring - Rudy plays an Eternal Domination gets a Memnarch and steals my Ertai, the Corrupted. That was game… - With Arthur as my last opponent, who has out both Morphling and Mist Dragon I rip a Mind Slaver and proceed to kill his Morphling and swords his Mist Dragon. Top 8: Powerless Workshop Aggro.Game 1: He gets out a Juggy, but I manage to keep his lock components off the table. I have a Confidant but get very low on life and have to play an unprotected Tinker, giving him a window of opportunity to take out my Platinum. He beats me down to -2, but does not have an answer, so my Angel finishes him in 2 turns. Game 2: Once against he has an early Juggy, but I slow him down with an Energy Flux. He can’t do much except pay for his Juggy and beat. I had to play my Flux of a land a 2 moxes because I couldn’t find any more lands, so I struggle with my own mana for a long time, but eventually get it back on the road. When I’m one Juggy swing away from dead I tinker up my favorite Angel but lack any sort of protection, because I was so low on mana. And FoW doesn’t combine well with negative life totals. He has the opportunity to Naturalize my Angel but mistakenly pays his upkeep for a second Juggy he casted last turn. He didn’t realize he was down to 4 already thanks to his tomb, and never gets the opportunity to cast his Naturalize. 5-0-1 , 10-1 Top 4: Arthur with TT Muddy BeatsGuess we have to play it out after all, I knew from last night that he Angel spells “game”. His only out is Smokestack, but it’s rarely fast enough, and he only plays 2. Game 1: I get out double confidant, but he keep me locked down with 3 Wires, whilel the confidants nibble on my life total, but with both Angel and Collosus in my hand I don’t have to fear a sudden death yet. The tide turns when I drain a Karn and manage to hardcast my Angel. I win this game at -12,  Game 2: He thinks for a While and decides to play his Chalice for 1 on his first turn. It a tough call between 0 and 1, but he was unlucky on this one, because I did have a mox, but no 1cc card. I have to make a tough decision too though. I can cast Confidant, or keep leak mana up. With no threats on his side, and a fetch to dodge Wasteland I decide to keep up leak mana, which probably lost me this game. On his next turn he casts a Sphere of Resistance with mana up for Leak, so the best thing I can do is Brainstorm. He cast a Smokestack with his remaining mana and a Tangle Wire on his next turn wins him this game. I think I could have won this game if I decided to paly a first turn Confidant, cause it would have allowed me to keep up with Smokestack and outlast Arthur. Game 3: I keep a silly land that has Island, Sol Ring, Tinker, Fow, FoW, Leak and Thirst. I tinker up Colossus on my second turn, and see my only land get stripped, but it doesn’t matter as I have FoW for his last effort Ensnaring Bridge and I ride the fat one to victory. 6-0-1 , 12-2 Finals: G/R Beats/HateHe beated gifts on his way to the finals, because the deck has too much hate for that. The good thing however is that I can ignore some hate (Like Chalice and Null Rod), and have a bomb in Platinum Angel as proved by our earlier confrontation. Game 1: This game is absolutely horrible for me, as I fail to find more than 1 non-Strip Mine land, despite resolving Ancestral and Thirst. When I’m at 10 he resolves 2-power creature number 4 and 5, giving me one more turn. I try a desperate Brainstorm, but don’t even find a land… Game 2: This time he hardly has a Clock with just a Shaman, later followed by a Heart Kami. I have tons of artifact mana, but no Counters, and I fear a Null Rod. I Demonic for Lotus and play will. He blasts the Ancestral I play from my grave and I tutor for Thirst (I didn’t want to play Tinker into another blast. Next turn he makes a mistake by not rebbing my Thirst, and I find a second one that find my Mystical, Drain and FoW. I tutor up Tinker and resolve it with enough protection. Game 3: Once again he doesn’t have much off a clock, so I don’t feel the need to play a second turn Tinker, but instead take some more time sculpting the perfect hand. A little later I tinker up Collosus, and ride it to victory, still at 5+ life. 7-0-1 , 14-3 --- I’m pleased with the performance of the deck, and I don’t think I would really change much. If I would play the deck again. The only thing that needs some more attention is the sideboard, as Mystic Remora still doesn’t fix the problems I might have with fast Combo deck. Other options are Arcane Lab, Chalice, Mana Maze, Sphere of Resistance, Duress. Some positive notes:Platinum Angel Is Abso-Friggin’-Lutely Awesome. (quote me on that) No-one is prepared for a Platinum, and back-up with 13 counters it rarely matters whether they are prepared for this or not. The mana base was rock-solid, and this helped a lot as I saw lot’s of Wastelands. With 7 basics and 6 fetchlands I was able to dodge wastelands all day. Some AnswersI don´t see anything wrong with Thugs list, I can´t wait to see the report. How often did Mystic Remora see play (why not Duress when it is on-colour? Sure, resolving Remora gives you a hard-on, but Duress seems more flexible). Was three the correct amount of Confidants? Do you win quickly enough so that Confidants don´t kill you? How were the Thirsts? I´m starting to dislike Thirst more and more in a deck that doesn´t abuse the Graveyard (read: Welders). Mystic Remore wasn’t all that hot. I only used it against the combo deck, but it doesn’t combine well with Leak and Confidant, which want to see play on the first turn. 3 Confidants still seems wrong, but there’s not a card I could cut for the fourth one. In most matchups you want to see one a.s.a.p. and the fact that the second one is hardly needed it not a valid argument against running 4, but I really couldn’t find a place for number 4. I really beg people not to look at the damaging effect of Confidant, the card does so much more. It might kill you from time to time, but with Angel and enough tutors for Tinker I never have this problem, as you can see in the report I never died to confidant. Thirst was decent at least. The only times I discarded non-artifacts was when I was at negative life total and didn’t want to see fetchlands. It digs deep and provides card advantage at the same time for a low mana-cost, it’s perfect for this deck. --- Feel free to ask questions, as I actually don’t know much to say about the deck, but I’m sure some of you are full of questions I have answers to Koen P.S. Comparing this deck to TT Confidant (the more combo-ish version) I like this deck a lot less, because it’s much less fun to play with and doesn’t have as many options. But for those of you looking for a powerful deck that is easy to master feel free to give this deck a try.
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-Most People Believe Magic Is Only A Trick. Why Change Their Minds??- (Sleight Of Hand)
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Limbo
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2006, 05:45:25 pm » |
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Leon build an interesting deck that worked pretty good against me, but since he didn’t make top8 I don’t think it performed consistently enough. Thanks for the compliment. I do think that my deck was consistent enough, but sadly I was not That mistake where I forgot to win (somehow my brain decided I only needed 18 damage so my shaman could go lethal next turn...) was my downfall. I would have certainly made T8 if I did win. (Curse you Platz...) I wrecked dragon 2-1 in R1, went 1-2 vs you (which should have been 2-1 if I played it right), lost 2-1 vs Stax, smashed Oath 2-1 and lost 0-2 to the RG beatz dude (having gazillions of mana and topping no threats for 8 turns after a first turn Ancestral sucks. Duressing T1 and him still dropping T1 Rod AND chalice on zero was also crap). Expect to see me playing more with this deck in the future, as it has a good game against most of the good decks out there, if I play it right... Oh, and congratz on the win. Your deck can really kick some ass.
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« Last Edit: February 14, 2006, 05:48:08 pm by Limbo »
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Without magic, life would be a mistake - Friedrich Nietzsche Chuck would ask Chuck how a woodchuck would chuck wood... as fast as this.
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Cross
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2006, 06:23:04 pm » |
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Another interesting list. I actually tested it last night when I saw it in the tournament forums.
I had some interesting results, but a number of things about the deck seem strange.
Among the concerns I had:
1 needle seems random. I felt like more of these were needed to protect yourself from welders. When playing with outsideboard I tutored for this more than tinker.
No mana crypt bothered me, as the decks main win condition was tinker. These facilitates the majority of first turn tinkers, I can't see not running it.
No tendrils. In testing I found myself in a bunch of situations where I just wish I had tendrils over the platinum angel or other cards just stuck in my hand. There were also a bunch of situations where I cast yawgmoth's will, and my best play was just tinker, whereas if it had been tendrils I would have won rather than pass the turn with a colossus on the table.
I can see some situations where platinum angel is good, and you obviously loved it, but I feel like it would be the first thing I would cut. Isn't this just a platinum juggernaut?
Echoing truth, while good, seems like it should be a bounce spell at another casting cost as chalice for 2 is really problematic for this deck.
I do have some positives, as 7 basics and 6 fetches is incredibly hot. This manabase is bulletproof...null rods and chalices really don't effect it. I think this is a huge strength against fish and stax, and fish is a huge problem for the combo version of this deck.
This version seems easier to play and more consistant over a longer timeline than the combo version, which is important for larger tournaments.
Congrats on the win.
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the GG skwad
"109) Cast Leeches.
110) You win the game."
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Gandalf_The_White_1
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2006, 07:55:30 pm » |
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I did alot of testing with Thug's previous control/combo confident build and ended up changing a few things. It was a good deck, but I think confident might be better suited by a more controllish build such as this, the reason being that a deck using confident as draw doesn't lend itself to a fast will, because it cannot chain draw spells and then replay them with will to go broken. That was why rebuild and hurkyl's recall were in the previous build; as additional combo enablers once one had built up enough artifact mana to go off.
Of course, will is good, but the point is that this is not really a will deck, and relying on drawing/casting artifact mana+bouncer+tendrils works sometimes, but at other times it's simply too random to reliably pull off; it can end up taking very long to win. That is why I think confident seems better suited in a more control-oriented build focusing on the Tinker kill, because one can simply sit on the cofident and a bunch of counters and protect the win rather than attempting to go broken in a deck not really suited for it.
Also, I definitely like the Platinum Angel tech; it has great synergy with the rest of the deck and I feel that it is more powerful than alot of people give it credit for; it seems from the report that she ended up winning you alot of games that you might have lost otherwise.
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« Last Edit: February 15, 2006, 12:13:47 am by Gandalf_The_White_1 »
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We have rather cyclic discussion, and I fully believe that someone so inclined could create a rather accurate computer program which could do a fine job impersonating any of us.
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sean1i0
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2006, 08:56:50 pm » |
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Having not been able to test this deck yet (I'm still getting my last two confidants from a friend at the moment) I'm not sure if this would be the right move or not, but considering the massive draw/search power from brainstorm, confidants, and thirst for knowledge could the sensei's divining top be removed for the 4th confidant? That or the Misdirection are the only 2 things that I see that I would even consider taking out. Btw though, Koen, congrats on the win; I'm really excited to start testing confidant control and combo out in the next few days.
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Thug
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2006, 01:07:43 pm » |
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1 needle seems random. I felt like more of these were needed to protect yourself from welders. When playing with outsideboard I tutored for this more than tinker. Needle is mainly there for Welders, since Tinker is pretty bad against Welders. I run 1 as a tutor target, and wouldn't run 2 maindeck since there are better options. I would earlier add a Darkblast or a Tormod's Crypt maindeck, because of the tutors. No mana crypt bothered me, as the decks main win condition was tinker. These facilitates the majority of first turn tinkers, I can't see not running it. It might have to do with play-style: I don't like first turn tinker, especially not in this deck. If it gets countered you lose a lot of mana acceleration and tempo. This deck doesn't need much mana, which is why Null Rod and Chalice are so ineffective against it. I don't really see the advantages of Crypt outweight the disadvantages. No tendrils. In testing I found myself in a bunch of situations where I just wish I had tendrils over the platinum angel or other cards just stuck in my hand. There were also a bunch of situations where I cast yawgmoth's will, and my best play was just tinker, whereas if it had been tendrils I would have won rather than pass the turn with a colossus on the table. When do you want to draw Tendrils, you have no way of storming up spells except for Will And if your resolving Will with enough mana to play a Tendrils you should be winning by just gaining card advantage off your Will. I can see some situations where platinum angel is good, and you obviously loved it, but I feel like it would be the first thing I would cut. Isn't this just a platinum juggernaut? Platinum Allows you to ignore your opponent, and tinker a full turn later than you often have too with Colossus. Colossus is fairly slow at racing Creature decks, and you want a good Tinker target against those, since it's your only answer. Echoing truth, while good, seems like it should be a bounce spell at another casting cost as chalice for 2 is really problematic for this deck. Chain of Vapor is too weak to be an option, so the other option is Rushing River. Truth is generally cheaper at bouncing problamatic cards (with chalice for 2 and Trini as the exception) How often will the 1 extra mana make a difference compared to the weakness against Chalice? Do you think you can win against Chalice for 2 often if you would have River instead of Truth? People rarely play chalice at 2 early, since if often forces them to wait a turn, or it keeps them from dropping another component. Combine the answer to these questions and the facts and for me Truth is superior to River. Another question however is, is Truth needed? I don't think it is, but I don't like scooping to cards (Like Platinum  ) This version seems easier to play and more consistant over a longer timeline than the combo version, which is important for larger tournaments. I think the fact that it's easier to play makes it more consistent for a lot of players. Personally I prefer the comboish version because you can win games base on play-skills with the deck, instead of winning games because of deckbuilding skills. Also, I definitely like the Platinum Angel tech; it has great synergy with the rest of the deck and I feel that it is more powerful than alot of people give it credit for; it seems from the report that she ended up winning you alot of games that you might have lost otherwise. Thanks, It's hard to say that I would have lost games without her though, since I basically planned on getting her out from turn 1, and this changes the whole gameplan you have for a game. If you know you have to win with Colossus you might have to play much more aggressive in some games. I do think Platinum is a fundamental part of the deck though, and I think cutting it changes the deck into something else. Koen
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-Most People Believe Magic Is Only A Trick. Why Change Their Minds??- (Sleight Of Hand)
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Wollblad
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2006, 11:54:29 am » |
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I have also tested versions of Confidant control decks, but not this particular one. You say that you want the fourth one, but I object to that. If you haven't found your Angel, you cannot risk having two Confidants in play and instead they tend to clog up in your hand. Three Confidants is probably the right number.
Then I have a question if you think that this version with massive counters is better than one more like a classic Control Slaver, with say two Welders or so? It would definitely not hurt to have more ways to bring in your Angel. Life can become an issue quite quickly with a Confidant and a few expensive spells on the top. It can be argued that DSC would have to go then and instead be something that can be welded. I'm not sure that is an argument, but it can be worth having in mind.
Last I would like to comment on crap like Pithing Needle and Echoing Truth that people tend to put in their decks. I myself is much more comfortable having a few Cunning Wish there. It is often enough to be able to fetch a bounce, a REB, a Mogg Salvage and a Darkblast. More mana intensive but, the flexibility outweights it by far. The combined answere to Thugs questions below combined with the answere to the question "What is more flexiblible?" won't at least rule out Cunning Wish. I would guess this is a bit in line with the comment from Cross.
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And that how it is...
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Thug
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2006, 12:12:56 pm » |
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I have also tested versions of Confidant control decks, but not this particular one. You say that you want the fourth one, but I object to that. If you haven't found your Angel, you cannot risk having two Confidants in play and instead they tend to clog up in your hand. Three Confidants is probably the right number. The reason why I want the forth one is that you want one first turn as often as possible. You rarely want to have out more than 1 without quick acces to an Angel or Top, so the second one sits often in your hand. I think the 4th confidant has to be compared to Thirst #3, and I like the Thirst a lot, so I'll stick it to for now. Then I have a question if you think that this version with massive counters is better than one more like a classic Control Slaver, with say two Welders or so? I played Slaver only twice, because I don't like the deck. Goblin Welder is amazingly weak on itself, and has to rely on other cards to do anything more than chump block. Welder cannot be compared to Confidant, since Confindant wins games by itself, Welder doesn't. If your first turn Welder gets forced, you're happy. If your first turn Condifant gets forced, you're a lot less happy, although this doesn't mean you're not in the game anymore. For me there's only 1 reason to play Slaver, beacuse of the matchup against Stax. Last I would like to comment on crap like Pithing Needle and Echoing Truth that people tend to put in their decks. Needle is no crap at all, the only matchup in which it's crap is Gifts, but it absolutely shines in others. Because the deck has Tutors running singletons opens up a lot of possibilities. The Truth won't be needed much in your normal gaunlet, but it's you're only answer to certain uncommon cards, Like Worship and the like (Yes, you could deck them with an Angel in play, but still). Truth also rarely is dead weight, and it good at bouncing Collosus, or Welder when your opponent has finally found some mana to Hardcast stuff. Against Oath it can also buy you at least an extra turn to get that Angel. Cunning Wish is pretty slow, and makes you lose sideboard spots, since the deck rarely runs any instants sideboard. If you got a Board with REB, Rack & Ruin, Truth, Darkblast, BEB etc, Cunning Wish might makes sense. But right now this sideboard has just Annul and Darkblast. Koen
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-Most People Believe Magic Is Only A Trick. Why Change Their Minds??- (Sleight Of Hand)
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Wollblad
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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2006, 12:26:52 pm » |
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Needle is no crap at all, the only match-up in which it's crap is Gifts, but it absolutely shines in others. Oath, TPS, monobrow aggro and Deathlong then? It often turns up to late against Fish after Vial has made its thing and a few Wastelands already have hit your mana. I can find some use for it, but "shines" seems rather strong to me. When you think about it, it's only very good against things that are not sacrificed upon use, such as Welders and Bazaars. Anyhow, I get the arguments for Echoing Truth and would like to add that it is not because I fear Chalice for two but rather the heavy presens of combo decks that make me reluctant to include bounce.
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And that how it is...
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Thug
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2006, 12:42:08 pm » |
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Oath, TPS, monobrow aggro and Deathlong then? It often turns up to late against Fish after Vial has made its thing and a few Wastelands already have hit your mana. I can find some use for it, but "shines" seems rather strong to me. When you think about it, it's only very good against things that are not sacrificed upon use, such as Welders and Bazaars. Anyhow, I get the arguments for Echoing Truth and would like to add that it is not because I fear Chalice for two but rather the heavy presens of combo decks that make me reluctant to include bounce. Needle is either good becasue you draw it very early and have a very cheap solution for a problem (like Vial, Welder, Thief, Waste etc) Or when you tutor for it later on to deal with a Problamtic Card (like Bazaar) Late game it doesn't always have an amazing use, but with 4 Brainstorms, 3 Thirst and a Tinker is can hardly be condired useless. Against Oath and Aggro it still stops Wasteland, so you're stopping your opponent from Time Walking you, that's a good thing. Againt various combo decks it can be slighly useless, but Thirst is also slightly useless against Those, since it's often too slow, Confidant is also worse than Leak here etc. Combo can be so fast that half your deck doesn't matter, however with 4 Leak, 4 FoW in the other half you still stand a change. Needle and Truth are not consistant cards, but mostly tutor targets that have other purposes as well. These can be changed with other Silver Bullets in a different metagame. You could run a Tormod's Crypt and an Arcane Lab/Null Rod if you expect a lot of combo and graveyard based decks. However Needle and Truth are probably best suited for an unkown or vary random metagame, and should be the cards to start with. Koen
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Hydra
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The Andy Probasco of Vint... Hey wait a second!
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2006, 01:17:39 pm » |
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Needle isn't quite as useless against Gifts as you make it out to be, as it does hit fetchlands and any alternate win conditions (Belcher/Time Vault) they may run. Personally, the matchup where I've found Needle most useless is Grim Long, as your only targets there are Necro, Bargain and Jar.
The only real change I could see making to the deck is switching out Echoing Truth for a different bounce spell in a meta that has more Stax, as Chalice for 2 can rain on your parade if backed up with more lock pieces.
I am curious though, how did you like the Misdirection?
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Mr. Nightmare
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Paper Tiger
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2006, 11:34:40 am » |
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Hey guys, I piloted this deck with a few minor tweaks to a top 8 finish yesterday in Baldwinsville at the Power 9 (ish) tournament. There's a report over in the reports area if you want to check it out.
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« Last Edit: February 19, 2006, 12:54:45 pm by Mr. Nightmare »
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Gabethebabe
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2006, 04:00:13 pm » |
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I went an unimpressive 4-3, beating Oath twice, beating Workshop aggro twice and losing to MUD combo, UBA stax (would you have mulliganed a FoW/Leak/Drain/Brainstorm/Brainstorm/Lotus/Energy Flux hand if you wenf first??) and a Standstill/Zombie Infestation deck that just draw all his good stuff. I played EE over Needle, Rushing River over Truth and the 4th Confidant over the 3rd Thirst. Things that happened: I was killed by Confidant twice. One time a double FoW and one time by Colossus. In both cases I still won the match. I beat Oath after he opened with Mox, Mox, Orchard, Oath. He also had a T2 Duress and a FoW with a blue card but it wasn´t enough  With E Truth I wouldn´t have won that game, but with Rushing River I did. I once had to Mystical and find nothing. A report in Spanish can be found hereI found the deck pretty consistent, but not doing a lot of broken stuff. Also I found that my mana sinks were not impressive. And I sometimes had trouble getting out of a tight spot. I would not consider play this deck again with just 1 Top. Top was just sooo good to me that day. Also this deck doesn´t win very quickly after drawing some cards of Confidant, it takes two swings. I think that´s why you need just a little bit more security (something that in the combo variant is not necessary, it does not self-inflict 11 and it wins quicker).
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« Last Edit: February 19, 2006, 04:08:57 pm by Gabethebabe »
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Thug
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2006, 09:50:40 am » |
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@ Mr. Nightmare First of all, congrats on the finish and thanks for reporting about it here. Maybe you could give some more information about certain cards, if you liked them or not etc. I'm mainly interested in your opinion on Thirst, Academy and the sideboard. I've played with Academy for a while, but I found I wasn't worth the vulnerability against Wastelands and Chalice to gain a small boost some times. This deck doesn't win on Academy like Gifts do. THe only reason I wanted to keep it in is the reason you also mentioned, it's still a Strip Mine against an other Academy. Strip Mine has been very good to me, and Having 2 colorless lands hardly ever gives problems. One thing that surpsrised me in your report is the amount of games you won on an early Tinker. Were you just lucky, or was is your goal to Tinker a.s.a.p Tinker doesnt really fit my playstyle, for Example I often rather keep countermana up than gamble a Tinker, what your opinion on this? --- @ Gabethebabe Thanks for posting those results and your thoughts as well. would you have mulliganed a FoW/Leak/Drain/Brainstorm/Brainstorm/Lotus/Energy Flux hand if you wenf first?? Tough one, if you drop Flux you commit suicide. If you go Lotus Go, it does look pretty bad. I would probably keep it and Brainstorm right away, hoping to see a fetch. Than either drop what you have drawn, or Brainstorm again hoping to find some artifact mana to get Leak up. But mulliganning makes sence too, because with Annuls you have a high chagne of having a first-turn counter even after mulliganning. I found the deck pretty consistent, but not doing a lot of broken stuff. Also I found that my mana sinks were not impressive. And I sometimes had trouble getting out of a tight spot. The deck hardly has broken plays, except early Tinkers off course. Mana Drain is hardly as good as it is in GIfts and Belcher, often you're just casting a Confidant or Thirst off the mana. Leak is maybe even better in this deck than Drain is. What tight spots do you mean exactly, were there situations in which Angel wasn't enough of an answer? Did you like EE? --- I've been trying 4 Confidants too, and because of that I had to fit in the second Top as well. What do you guys think about the land count? I think I have to remove a land to fit in Both Confidant #4 and Top #2. I can't get myself to remove a Brainstorm, since it's just too good with so many fetchlands. Koen
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Gabethebabe
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2006, 10:33:10 am » |
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would you have mulliganed a FoW/Leak/Drain/Brainstorm/Brainstorm/Lotus/Energy Flux hand if you wenf first?? What tight spots do you mean exactly, were there situations in which Angel wasn't enough of an answer? Did you like EE? Whatever you do with that hand you probably lose if you keep it. I tried the turn 1 Flux which was a pretty bad play, Brainstorming is soo much better (if you don´t find additional mana, you will lose anyway). I found two land in the first 4-5 cards, but since my opponent had Academy he could maintain stack long enough to make me sac the flux (note that I had to burn my FoW because of a turn 1 REB aimed at Flux) Tight spots kindly provided by Workshop decks. I sided out Angel vs Workshop which is surely the correct thing to do. Only one bounce spell and onyl one card vs. Welder is few. EE entered only play once to kill 2 moxes. It was not very impressive but also I didn´t miss Needle. I´m sure a second Top would have done better.
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MaxxMatt
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2006, 07:06:05 am » |
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Hi Thug
I assemled the deck yesterday and tested it against 3 different decks with really good results. I piloted BR-Confidant-Hate deck against it and lost almost all the games during which he managed to survive to his own Ritual-Double-Bomb start
I piloted Gay-Red against it and won only the games during which my own well timed stifles reduced his own mana base to a bounch of Wastable lands and Useless artifacts. In all the other scenarios, Lavamancers is slow at killing D.Confidants and usually Tutors and Basics and Counters buy you enough time to Tinker out Platz or DSc or Will for the win with ease.
I piloted my own Gifts.dec against it and I split the victories and the losses almost equally. I won enough to say that Darkblast, a lot of tutors and redundant Drawers can be really deadly against a "monoblu" deck that can be tricked because of the lack or Duresses in his hand. I lose against it a couple of time AFTER having played the usually broken "gifts starts". His counters and his stability is astonishing On the other hand, your deck lose a couple of ABSURD games during which any other deck would have won: Superior cards' drawing, superiors board, better mana base. Being unable to optimize mana, counterspells and missing drawers or tutors mutate sure victories in sadly losses.
I found Mana Drains almost useless or "subpar" in a lot of situations. Some times, the deck seemed to be flooded and "can" miss the black mana needed to win. I tried Imperial Seal too, especially in after playing with Top#2 as I referred in the lines beyond these ones.
I switched a bit some cards into the deck and found interesting:
-4 Mana Drains -1 Island +3 Duress +1 Dark Confidant/Imperial Seal +1 Sensei Diving's Top
You lose a bit the "couterspells heavy" aspect that you seemed to like, but you gain in effectiveness and in flexibility. Sometimes you can win with only D.Confidant on table, both thanks to Top or Opponent's savage autodamaging. In these situations, Duresses can fit the deck really better.
I take out Drains too, because I ALWAYS want to start with Island, Mox, Leak and consequently resolve a D.Confidant thanks to Swamp, while I usually would not fetch for duals at all. And playing D.Confidant first and subsequently follow it with both Duress and Leak is really strong too.
Playing with Drains, I HAVE to fetch to Undeerground to guarantee both Drains, Leak and D.Confidant, consequently leaving an open window to my opponent's possible denial plan. A quick sequence of Drain, Duress and Leak is impossible too.
The deck really need a few mana on table to win and playing with basics, convinced me that the only cards that could be cut are the almighty Mana Drains.
Maxx
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Mr. Nightmare
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2006, 08:41:47 am » |
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@ Mr. Nightmare
First of all, congrats on the finish and thanks for reporting about it here. Maybe you could give some more information about certain cards, if you liked them or not etc. I'm mainly interested in your opinion on Thirst, Academy and the sideboard.
I've played with Academy for a while, but I found I wasn't worth the vulnerability against Wastelands and Chalice to gain a small boost some times. This deck doesn't win on Academy like Gifts do. THe only reason I wanted to keep it in is the reason you also mentioned, it's still a Strip Mine against an other Academy.
Strip Mine has been very good to me, and Having 2 colorless lands hardly ever gives problems.
One thing that surpsrised me in your report is the amount of games you won on an early Tinker. Were you just lucky, or was is your goal to Tinker a.s.a.p Tinker doesnt really fit my playstyle, for Example I often rather keep countermana up than gamble a Tinker, what your opinion on this?
As far as Academy goes, I was happy with it for 2 reasons. 1) On more than one occasion, it allowed me to hardcast Platinum Angel with Drain backup. The ability to hardcast Colossus is there too with Academy, which would be difficult to do otherwise. I had it stripped once or twice on the day, but to be honest, I didn't see more than 3 Wastelands at all the whole tournament. 2) No Crucible, to me, makes a single Strip seem like a throw in. It didn't perform like I wanted in testing, so it got the axe. As for the Board, as I said in my report, the parts that worked were great. Darkblast, the Needles, Annul, and Tormod's Crypt were amazing all day. I only saw Stax once and didn't see a flux post board, but I'm sure that would have been great. Plague was crap. Null Rod was crap. I haven't picked the deck back up yet, but I want to see how Shadow of Doubt works in their slots. Tinker was my hero all day long. If it wasn't in my opening grip, Mystical, Vamp, or Demonic for it was. Every game I had an early Tinker I had at least Force backup, if not more. The early tinker-> Colossus kept my opponents off their own gameplan enough to either win, or take total control of the games. I wasn't really aiming for it, but if it was there, I wanted to take advantage of it. Also, a lot of times an early Tinker (turn 3-4) kept countermana open anyway, because all you need was an Island and an off-colored Mox. Mana Leak was Incredible all day long. When you leak LOTUS or RITUAL vs. Combo, man, what a great play. It also came out of nowhere vs. Control on the early Tinker, because most of the time they expect you to need UU open.
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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2006, 01:23:32 pm » |
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I've been testing this deck out and at first thought that mana drain was really bad, obviously because there are not many big things to use drain mana on besides demonic tutor into yag will, tinker, or if you want to hardcast plats or something. Thirst for knowledge also didn't really live up to what i hoped it would. So, in order to try and resolve the mana drain problem and the draw problem i tested skeletal scrying in place of one of the thirsts and i really liked it. Although the life loss was occasionally an issue, the ability to tinker for plats and protect it with alot of counters really made it a non-issue. You have plenty of cards to remove with 5-6 fetch lands and all the extra counters, and draining into a scrying is amazing.
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Eddie
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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2006, 01:53:48 pm » |
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I've been trying to use the Intuition - Ak engine in this deck instead of the Thirsts. This gives you some nice things to drain into. The only problem is cutting cards to fit them in. I've also cut a land for a lotus petal. Mana Leak and Dark Confidant are so good here that I really want 2 mana in my first turn.
Right now I'm testing with: -3 Thirst -1 Needle -1 Fetch -1 Strip -1 Drain
+3 Intuition +4 Accumulated Knowledge +1 Lotus Petal
I need to cut something else. I'd probably cut another land (Island). You have a tremendous draw engine and 16 land with 7 artifact mana-sources can probably do.
I'm not sure if the Intuition draw engine will work out ok. The biggest problem is that the Intuitions are pretty dead after the first. But only 2 Intuitions would probably be to low (as in, by the time you see one, you probably lost / won the game already).
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Gandalf_The_White_1
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2006, 11:10:33 pm » |
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There's a Confident+intuition/ak list on the more comboish confident build thread. I think that intution/ak has more synergy with a combo kill like tendrils, because it allows one to set up a fast will and 'just win.' I'm not sure it's right for this deck because one can't really abuse it to combo out; I find that the deck often wants to just sit on confident controlling the game and drawing cards untill it wins, while the ak engine pushes it towards a faster kill; the two approaches seem like they might fight each other.
At the very least, if I tried the ak engine I would add in the tendrils kill. One's first intution gets ak, drawing cards, while one's second intution gets like acadamy, mox, lotus, setting up a broken will.
One thing that I would like to stress is that winning NOW is so much better than later. It seems kind of obvious, but I find it really can be an issue in this deck. While most other 'control' decks can simply combo out and win the turn they cast Will, this deck can't. It's Wills are slower and not as broken, and don't let you win right away.
While playing against this deck with an intution/ak control/combo deck, my opponent actually resolved will, recast ancestral, tinker, etc, but then lost after passing because 1 fow from his full hand (he was left tapped out after his Will) was not enough to stop my Will, and I killed him with tendrils.
While I was playing WITH this deck, I found that it worked well: I did win a good number of games, however, I just didn't like it. Perhaps it just doesn't suit my playstyle, but I hated the fact that it was often impossible for me to 'just win' right away when I wanted to. It's slower and less broken that other decks.
Goblin welder was a real pain in testing because it makes it impossible to beat down with one's confidents or to win via tinker, meaning that the only way is to kill the welders (which I had no maindeck way to do; my only removal was echoing truth [also note that I did cut needle frome the md, but I don't think that this is the best solution against welder because dekcs running welder (CS or Stax) often run gorilla shaman as well which can eat the needle, while a card like darkblast takes care of both of these annoying critters, and with a basic swamp the black mana for recurring it against stax isn't a problem] ) or to find and resolve my Will, and this doesn't even let me win right away, I still have to beat down a couple of times (this was against CS, so if he had topdecked a slaver while I was beating down it was lategame enough for him to cast it and just weld it in to activate it if I countered.)
If I'm going to resolve Will, I feel that I would like to, and should be able to, win right away. If I were to play the deck I would probably add in a maindeck method of welder removal, probably 1 darkblast, just because welders are such a pain with this deck that If one is unable to combo out one would often like to deal with them. I would also consider adding in a tendrils for the combo kill.
Oh, and I also found drains and thirsts to be somewhat underwhelming.
In response to the duress suggestion: It seems like a good idea but I'm not sure that this deck can capitalize very well on the early game strengths of duress, since one often can't win right away (excepting a random fast tinker). The whole point seems to be to drag into late game and to continute controlling one's opponent with the card advantage provided my confident, which is why I think that the plethora of counters is so critical. Both duress and leak lose strengh as the game progresses making the control elements one gains through bob's CA less powerful. Leak is weak lategame as it is; the only reason it is useful is because larger counterwars can still cause one's opponent to tap a great deal of mana; without drain to start a counterwar leak probably will not counter anything. Duress doesn't protect against topdecks, either. Althout Duress seems nice, I think that in the lategame drains are necessary even despite the lack of sinks, and that leak is better than duress, so unless one wants to run fow, drain, leak, AND duress, duress is not a good choice. (and of course in the case of running all four duress often competes for mana vs leak and drain)
As it is, although I think that it is definitely a viable deck and has some potential, I wasn't really happy with the way it played in my testing.
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2006, 11:21:36 pm by Gandalf_The_White_1 »
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We have rather cyclic discussion, and I fully believe that someone so inclined could create a rather accurate computer program which could do a fine job impersonating any of us.
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Gabethebabe
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2006, 03:52:57 am » |
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Agree with a lot of things Gandalf says.
I would not maindeck Darkblast, though. I would prefer to run a Cunning Wish over it. Darkblast and Annul are decent targets, if you add things like Rebuild/Purge/Stifle to your SB you don´t really bastardize it.
The more I read and see about Confidant, the more I start to like the Gifts version that I cooked up, that received 0 responses for some reason and almost falls of this page. It has less countermagic, but more threats, it doesn´t run subpar Thirsts, it Drains into brokenness (Gifts) and it wins NOW if it has to.
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Thug
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2006, 07:15:25 am » |
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I see a lot of comments from in my opinion spoiled people.
People are used to winning immediatly from Will People are used to winning after drainin a 3+cc spell
This deck just doesn't do that, and it will always lose that comparsion to something like Gifts.
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Still I don't think I have lost a game with the deck after resolving Will. Nor can I recall losing a Game after resolving Tinker.
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Intuition + AK doesn't fit this deck. Thirst digs for anwers, and refills your Counterspells. Intuition doesn't dig before spending 5 mana. Having an AK instead of Confidant/Leak is just bad. (You might argue that you replaced Lands etc, but if you feel you can get away running less lands why wouldn't you replace them with good cards?) Tendrils doesn't fit this deck either, since it's only good when you're resolving Will, at which point you're winning anyway.
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Duress doesn't really fit the deck because it's pro-active, making it bad after the early game. Also it doesn't force your opponent to spend mana on their threat before you stop it. You might duress away a Smokestack, but your opponent will still have 4 mana for that Uba Mask... Leak just stops what they cast.
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If you would compare this deck to Mono-U you would get comments like:
Wow I got tutors!, wow I can get a win condition when I want to! Wow I got a Will that wins games! Wow I got a Phid that always lands first turn, and actually hurts my opponent!
Koen
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MoxMonkey
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2006, 10:29:20 am » |
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When i played against and tested this deck I thought it was MUC except Good. I really like all the counters to back up stuff but I don't see a good Slaver matchup Game 1 Minus turn 1-2 Tinker with force backup and they never get Welder. being able to sit back on TFK and a hand of Counters seems a lot better than when I saw it on paper. I think I put a Second Misdirection replacing a Mana Drain maybe something else. 4 Leaks and 4 Forces are what you ride into Confidant Beatz for the win or thats what I do with the deck and its been testing really solid. Thanks for the list.
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verduran
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2006, 10:51:26 am » |
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How does Dark Confidant, in your opinion, compare to other card drawing creatures, like Ophidian, Shadowmage Infiltrator and Dimir Cutpurse. Obviously you prefer Dark Confidant, but on what grounds? Is mana cost the main issue or is the fact you don't have to turn it sideways its main advantage?
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Thug
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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2006, 11:06:13 am » |
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When i played against and tested this deck I thought it was MUC except Good. I really like all the counters to back up stuff but I don't see a good Slaver matchup Game 1 Minus turn 1-2 Tinker with force backup and they never get Welder. being able to sit back on TFK and a hand of Counters seems a lot better than when I saw it on paper. I think I put a Second Misdirection replacing a Mana Drain maybe something else. 4 Leaks and 4 Forces are what you ride into Confidant Beatz for the win or thats what I do with the deck and its been testing really solid. Thanks for the list. Slaver can be a bit rough pre-sideboard. I think the key is that you dont want to spend too many resources battling Welder. Forcing a Welder first-turn almost always in the wrong play. (Unless you're hand only allows Tinker as a gameplan) If you can get a Confidant to stick you should be able to find an answer to Welder before they will be able to hardcast their artifacts. After sideboard you get very cheap answers to Welders, where they get cheap answers in general (REB's, Darkblast/Lava Dart) With everything trading 1-on-1 you get very tense matches, which are pretty even. How does Dark Confidant, in your opinion, compare to other card drawing creatures, like Ophidian, Shadowmage Infiltrator and Dimir Cutpurse. Obviously you prefer Dark Confidant, but on what grounds? Is mana cost the main issue or is the fact you don't have to turn it sideways its main advantage? Mana Cost by far. Ophidian has been too slow for a while. You can't justify tapping out turn 2/3 without counter backup. Confidant often hits turn 1, and if not you often can play it turn 3 with counter backup. The fact that it doesn't need to attack is ok, and makes cards like Wire less useful against you. Koen
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Vegeta2711
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2006, 05:15:30 pm » |
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My only question: Is there any way to make the deck better at coming back from behind? Literally every match I've played with or against the deck, if the player who had it fell behind a little it cascaded until they eventually lost the game.
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Dozer
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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2006, 08:44:27 am » |
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I think this is down in Confidant's bones. When you are behind already, the enormous boost that Confidant can give you in terms of cards is just too slow. I'm experiencing similar problems with a B/W Confidant deck. While Confidant is a very strong draw engine (and it's good), it doesn't pull you out of a tight spot like card drawing spells in the line of Fact, Gifts or even just a simple Tutor can. You need to ensure that you don't fall behind in the first place; that's where Confidant shines.
In my experience (not with this deck, but with Confidant), the powerful Wizard has the following structural problem: You fill your deck with mostly cheap cards so Confidant doesn't hurt as much. You draw cards like crazy, lands and stuff, so you are able to play out your hand just like you want to... and then you stall out on an empty hand. Confidant has trouble bringing up the oomph to refill your hand properly in one go. That's why I think Confidant decks need back-up draw. Thug's list has TfK, but TfK is mostly card selection, giving you two cards at most and more often just one on a nearly empty hand. Fact or Fiction is almost a given, and I think that more than one Top also helps enormously if just to be able to see more cards.
Coming back from behind also means: being able to affect the board. Like many other decks these days, Thug's build eschews removal. One bounce spell, Pithing Needle, Platinum Angel and Colossus cannot be called a "removal suite". Once your opponent can slip a threat under your counterwall or establish a superior board position, what can pull you back into the game? All the card advantage in the world doesn't help if there's nothing you can get with it.
If you re-read Koen's report, you'll note that it often is just the Angel that wins games, functioning as the great equalizer. That's putting a lot of eggs in one small basket. As long as you can protect the Angel, that's golden. If you can't, gg. And even a resolved Angel can't exactly be called "coming back"; everything it does is to keep you from dying. This only works because other (control) decks are short on removal, too. If all you have to stop is one Echoing Truth and a Rebuild in your opponents' deck, you'll have an easier time than stopping 4 Swords to Plowshares and a couple of Disenchants. (Welder is the exception as heis excellent removal against Platinum Angel.)
So, falling behind on the board cannot be readily solved by this deck. The Engineered Explosives suggested in this thread are a nice way out, as might be Powder Keg or a similar effect. But I think mostly you want another solid draw spell (Fact) to tutor for besides Ancestral (and TfK, which I don't like in this role).
Dozer
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« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 09:09:08 am by Dozer »
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Thug
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« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2006, 02:49:43 pm » |
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I think this is down in Confidant's bones. When you are behind already, the enormous boost that Confidant can give you in terms of cards is just too slow. I'm experiencing similar problems with a B/W Confidant deck. While Confidant is a very strong draw engine (and it's good), it doesn't pull you out of a tight spot like card drawing spells in the line of Fact, Gifts or even just a simple Tutor can. You need to ensure that you don't fall behind in the first place; that's where Confidant shines. Fact and Gifts will only get you out of tight spots in your deck is build to do that. Adding a FoF to this deck will not help you get out of tight spots, not at all. Confidant is not as bad and slow as you make it look. Against Stax it's great at any time you can afford 1B, against aggro it either helps you find Tinker or it buys you time by blocking things. Against Control it wins games if dropped early, and only becomes subpar if you're behind already, but it still puts stress on your opponent to win fast. In my experience (not with this deck, but with Confidant), the powerful Wizard has the following structural problem: You fill your deck with mostly cheap cards so Confidant doesn't hurt as much. You draw cards like crazy, lands and stuff, so you are able to play out your hand just like you want to... and then you stall out on an empty hand. Confidant has trouble bringing up the oomph to refill your hand properly in one go. That's why I think Confidant decks need back-up draw. Thug's list has TfK, but TfK is mostly card selection, giving you two cards at most and more often just one on a nearly empty hand. Fact or Fiction is almost a given, and I think that more than one Top also helps enormously if just to be able to see more cards. Every counterspell you draw ensures you of another 2 cards. Thats already 12 spells that gain card-advantage with an Confidant out, add to that the restricted cards, and Thirst, and you are up to 20 cards. With a few more cards that cycle at least I find it hard to believe you can stall out with a Confidant in play, but maybe you were playing the wrong cards... Thirst hardly is card-selection. After turn 1 artifact mana isn't needed much anymore, and this deck can actually pitch it to Thirst, where Slaver and Gifts often can't. And with Top, Needle, Angel and Collosus you rarely need to dump 2 cards to it. As I mentioned before, the only times I recall discarding 2 cards is with an Angel out and too much Fetch Lands in hand. Coming back from behind also means: being able to affect the board. Like many other decks these days, Thug's build eschews removal. One bounce spell, Pithing Needle, Platinum Angel and Colossus cannot be called a "removal suite". Once your opponent can slip a threat under your counterwall or establish a superior board position, what can pull you back into the game? All the card advantage in the world doesn't help if there's nothing you can get with it. What threats are you talking about? You never will be able to counter everything but the cards you mentioned above are pretty able of handling any problem. Smokestack is probably one of the most scariest cards that can slip into play, but aside from that I don't really think this is a realistic problem. Card Advantage will find you the few answers you have. If you re-read Koen's report, you'll note that it often is just the Angel that wins games, functioning as the great equalizer. That's putting a lot of eggs in one small basket. As long as you can protect the Angel, that's golden. If you can't, gg. And even a resolved Angel can't exactly be called "coming back"; everything it does is to keep you from dying. This only works because other (control) decks are short on removal, too. If all you have to stop is one Echoing Truth and a Rebuild in your opponents' deck, you'll have an easier time than stopping 4 Swords to Plowshares and a couple of Disenchants. (Welder is the exception as heis excellent removal against Platinum Angel.) You plan your whole game towards the point where you have to defend the Angel. The fact that you can ignore a lot of things your opponent does and the fact that nearly every card in the deck is always a business spell makes it hard for your opponent to stop you after you set up the game. If you re-read my report again you will see that I was able to protect an Angel against 3 Mutations in two turns; that I was able to defend my Angel against an deck with aty least 7 answers backed up with blasts. He knew it was coming, but still was unable to stop it. If your opponent boards in 15 disenchants you (probably) won't succed in the Angel plan, but with what is your opponent left in his deck? 15 semi-useless cards. How hard can it be to win with Confidants then, or just a Colossus. --- Adding more answers to the deck means you weaken your control matchup and your combo matchup to hopefully shore up your Aggro and maybe Prison matchup a little. Aggro shouldn't be a problem in this configurations, and whether the deck gets stronger agaist Prison when more answers are added, I'm not ever sure of. I really like this deck, as it's the perfect shell for Confidant Koen
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-Most People Believe Magic Is Only A Trick. Why Change Their Minds??- (Sleight Of Hand)
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Gekoratel
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« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2006, 07:47:34 pm » |
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Thug I was wondering if you had any advice on sideboarding with this deck. My sideboard is very similar to the current list but I choose to run Duress over Mystic Remora. The only maindeck changes -1 Echoing Truth -1 Misdirection +1 Dark Confidant +1 Rushing River.
Sideboard: 3 Annul 3 Duress 2 Energy Flux 3 Tormod's Crypt 2 Darkblast 2 Pithing Needle
Here is how I sideboard against different matchups but I'm not at all sure that it is correct. The Stax matchup in particular the board has 9 cards that could come in.
Oath -3 mana drain +3 annul I've also experimented with bringing in Darkblast for Tokens and Pithing Needle for wasteland. Fighting the war over tokens doesn't seem necessary because it's easier to stop Oath from resolving.
CS -1 Pithing Needle -1 Rushing River -1 Platinum Angel -1 Mana Leak +2 Darkblast +2 Tormod's Crypt Needle and River are the two obvious candidates in my opinion because darkblast does a better job than needle. The cards I cut for Crypt are a little random but I never find myself tinkering to Plat's in this matchup so I board it out. I'm also unsure if the other 3 Mana Leak's should come out for Duress.
Gift's -1 Pithing Needle -1 Thirst for Knowledge -1 Mana Leak +3 Tormod's Crypt In this matchup I know that I want to bring in Crypt but should it be 2 or 3. Also other than Needle I don't know what else to board out because bounce is nice against the Colossus plan.
Combo -1 Pithing Needle -1 Rushing River -1 Mana Drain +3 Duress Obviously sideboarding varies slightly from combo deck to combo deck but the duress almost always want to come in. If they were 2-land belcher then I would also board in some Needle's.
Stax -4 Mana Drain -1 Rushing River -2 Thirst for Knowledge +2 Energy Flux +3 Annul +2 Pithing Needle I left the leaks in over Drains because they are easier to cast but the mana that you get from Drain is quite nice so I'm not sure it is correct. Also once again boarding out Thirst may be incorrect.
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« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 08:00:20 pm by Gekoratel »
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Dozer
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« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2006, 06:09:23 am » |
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Adding more answers to the deck means you weaken your control matchup and your combo matchup to hopefully shore up your Aggro and maybe Prison matchup a little. Aggro shouldn't be a problem in this configurations, and whether the deck gets stronger agaist Prison when more answers are added, I'm not ever sure of.
I really like this deck, as it's the perfect shell for Confidant.
I'm not saying I don't like the deck. In fact, I think I might run it myself at the next tournament, or at least play Angel as an additional Tinker target. As you pointed out, the fact that you were able to protect your Angel thrice speaks for it, as do many other things. What I do believe, though, is that Confidant decks have a tendency to put all eggs in one basket, namely Confidant as a draw engine. In the environment where I play, people run Affinity and Threshhold and similar stuff, and everybody has plenty of removal. The powered players reguarly lose three-game matches to unpowered random aggro decks because they (including me) do not prepare enough for the onslaught that sometimes awaits them. With the amount of removal present in a mostly aggro metagame, using Confidants as your only only draw engine is often not good enough. (I understand that I speak from a perspective that is probably different from yours, because I'm used to a very different local metagame. That may lead to a different understanding of the deck and its workings. But still...) Adding a FoF to this deck will not help you get out of tight spots, not at all. What will, then? If a powerful draw spell like Fact or Fiction won't help, how does the slower stream of cards from Confidant help in that situation? You make it sound as if your basic out of tight spots is just Tinker. Can that be enough in environments where everyone and his brother is prepared to kill your Tinker target? If your goal is to get closer to Tinker, I don't see how Fact is not good. You have the mana for it, and flipping it over with Confidant is not the major risk here, with Top and all. Basically, my question is: How would you deal with an aggro metagame with this deck, or would you just not take it there? Picture decks like Affinity, Stompy, Threshold, R/G, Sligh plus B/W in many forms, and add one of each U/W control, Oath, Dragon to the list. I know the solution to that metagame is Storm combo, but for the sake of the argument, which adjustments would you make to your deck, or none at all?
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a swashbuckling ninja Member of Team CAB, dozercat on MTGO MTG.com coverage reporter (Euro GPs) -- on hiatus, thanks to uni Associate Editor of www.planetmtg
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