TheManaDrain.com
November 03, 2025, 09:07:30 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Something old, something new, something borrowed...  (Read 4206 times)
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« on: March 18, 2006, 04:07:17 pm »

The Card Creation Forum has been kind of slow lately. I personally have been busy and lacking in new card ideas, so what I am presenting here is an old card which I don't believe I have ever offered up for the Master List:

Rod of Dispel Magic
{2}
Artifact
Players can't play enchantments' activated abilities.

This is obviously the next card in line after Cursed Totem and Null Rod. It's not overly impressive, and it doesn't do nearly as much as the other two as there are much fewer enchantments with activated abilities than creatures and artifacts. However, back in 2001 when I posted this on another website, I listed the following as cards affected by Rod of Dispel Magic:

Necropotence, Pestilence, Recurring Nightmare, Yawgmoth's Bargain, Zombie Infestation, Douse, Mind Over Matter, Cadaverous Bloom, Overgrown Estate, Squandered Resources, Stormbind, Earthcraft, Lifeforce, Saproling Burst, Tranquil Grove, Goblin Bombardment, Goblin Warrens, Land's Edge, Seal of Fire, Seismic Assault, Sneak Attack, Aura Fracture, Circle of Protection: Black, Circle of Protection: Red, Greater Realm of Preservation, Parallax Wave, Sacred Mesa, Seal of Cleansing, etc.

Note: Rod of Dispel Magic would be able to shut off mana-producing enchantments like Cursed Totem can shut off mana-producing creatures and Null Rod can shut off mana-producing artifacts.

The above list is old and many more playable enchantments have been printed since 2001. It is not my intent at this time to provide an up-to-date list. Also, rules changes and Oracle wording updates may have changed the way some of these enchantments work.

Switching gears, awhile back I saw the following card on another website (kudos to someone with the screen name "stupidleo" for the idea):

Keepstone
{3}
Artifact
Land, artifact, enchantment and creature cards not in play lose their abilities.

The thread and discussion of this card can be found here:

http://forum.tcgplayer.com/showthread.php?t=30301

While this card could easily be a rules nightmare on par with Humility, I really think the idea has merit. And I think it is more interesting than Rod of Dispel Magic. First of all, I word use the following templating:

Keepstone II (placeholder name)
{3}
Artifact
Players can't play activated abilities of artifact, creature, enchantment, and land cards not in play.

This is functionally different, and I'm still not sure I understand all of the interactions of either card (which is partially why I'm posting it - for the discussion). A lot of the discussion is centered on what constitutes an activated ability of a card not in play? Magic players familiar with all of the uses of Stifle probably know the answer to this question. Channel, Cycling, and Ninjitsu are obvious activated abilities hosed by this card.

Unfortunately, Dredge is a replacement effect and not an activated ability; however, this card would prevent your opponent from cycling the land cards he returned to his hand with Life from the Loam...

This also shuts off the "Return ~this~ from your graveyard to your hand" ability of Shard Phoenix and Eternal Dragon as well as the "Return Firemane Angel from your graveyard to play" ability of Firemane Angel.

Because Stabilizer and Damping Matrix both exist, this card could not cost less than three mana.

So, I'm anxious to hear what people think about this card/idea (the revision I proposed, not necessarily the one stupidleo proposed because I think that's a whole other can of worms). I think Rod of Dispel Magic is what it is and cannot really be argued as it is functionally identical to Cursed Totem and Null Rod, both existing cards.

In looking for other cards shut off by this, I discovered that it affects Elvish Sprit Guide and Transmute (on creatures) too!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2006, 10:09:05 pm by Marco » Logged
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2006, 04:08:00 pm »

Current Wording:

Nullstone Tablet
{4}
Artifact
Players can't play activated abilities of cards not in play.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 02:57:07 pm by Marco » Logged
Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
Administrator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 8074


When am I?


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2006, 12:20:06 pm »

Why just permanents? It's not like instants/sorceries have activated abilities, and that's a lot of extra text.
Logged

Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
PucktheCat
My interests include blue decks, arguing, and beer.
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 549


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2006, 12:29:23 pm »

Instants and sorceries have activated abilities when not in play (cycling and transmute).  I don't see why this card shouldn't affect instants and sorceries though.
Logged
Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
Administrator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 8074


When am I?


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2006, 12:53:24 pm »

Right, there are a few relevant cases, but that wording was a holdover from the "lose their abilities" version that would make instants and sorceries do nothing.
Logged

Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
Matt
Post like a butterfly, Mod like a bee.
Moderator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 2297


King of the Jews!


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2006, 02:23:32 pm »

I don't know about this. {3} seems too little for all this can hose, but {4} is too much...isn't it? I kind of want to make this {2}{W} or something.
Logged

http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF
----------------------
SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary
SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right
SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar
----------------------
noitcelfeRmaeT
{Team Hindsight}
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2006, 11:31:10 pm »

White is a rule-making colour with rule-making cards, but I don't want this to be a white card. I see it more as a relative of cards like Cursed Totem, Null Rod, Damping Engine, Damping Matrix, and Pithing Needle.

I think that allowing it to affect all cards ("Players can't play activated abilities of cards not in play.") would push the casting cost above 3. And I think 4 mana is too high for the present version, unless maybe I add "When Card Name comes into play, draw a card."?
Logged
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2006, 11:08:24 pm »

So,

Card Name
{3}
Artifact
Players can't play activated abilities of artifact, creature, enchantment, and land cards not in play.

or

Card Name
{4}
Artifact
Players can't play activated abilities of cards not in play.

I hate to push this out of playability range by raising the casting cost. Damping Matrix saw little play compared to Null Rod, in large part because it cost just one mana more. Geth's Grimoire, at four mana, didn't pan out as a Madness hoser although there are some really good hosers at four mana, namely Light of Day. I think it only affects Elvish Spirit Guide, but I could make it:

Card Name
{3}
Artifact
Players can't play activated abilities of cards not in play unless they're mana abilities.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2006, 10:10:02 pm by Marco » Logged
Matt
Post like a butterfly, Mod like a bee.
Moderator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 2297


King of the Jews!


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2006, 12:23:23 am »

Quote
I hate to push this out of playability range by raising the casting cost. Damping Matrix saw little play compared to Null Rod
I'm pretty sure it was because Matrix doesn't turn off mana abilities, which honestly are the most important artifact abilities, especially with the artifact lands running rampant.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2006, 12:40:34 am by Matt » Logged

http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF
----------------------
SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary
SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right
SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar
----------------------
noitcelfeRmaeT
{Team Hindsight}
Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
Administrator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 8074


When am I?


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2006, 12:24:04 am »

Matrix actually saw a lot of play off and on in block, T2, and extended.
Logged

Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2006, 01:01:59 am »

I'm pretty sure it was because Matrix doesn't turn off mana abilities, which honestly are the most important artifact abilities, especially with the artifact lands running rampant.

I'm pretty sure you're right, Matt.

Matrix also saw play in Keeper decks around the time they became "4C Control"...
Logged
Norm4eva
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1072

The87thBombfish
View Profile
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2006, 01:03:21 am »

I don't like this because it hoses 1996 World Champion.
Actually I don't like it because I don't think this should be colorless.  I don't know which color this ability should belong to, but I'm pretty sure "all of them" is the wrong answer.  It just hoses too many things, which you sort of pointed out; cycling, ninjutsu, ESG, transmute, any ability which reads "play this only if -blah- is in your graveyard" etc etc.  Null Rod works because it's an artifact that deals with other artifacts; I don't see a flavorful justification for shutting down so many disconnected things.  This is a card that has wide reaching implications that can't be easily sorted or addressed - unlike a one-shot like Stifle or its kin.
Logged
PucktheCat
My interests include blue decks, arguing, and beer.
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 549


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2006, 04:01:29 pm »

This doesn't stop anything that Pithing Needle couldn't, so it seems odd to say that it does something that artifacts shouldn't.
Logged
Norm4eva
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1072

The87thBombfish
View Profile
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2006, 05:50:24 pm »

Pithing Needle does it one at a time though, and you have to know what to name. 
Anyway, to be fair, I was a little intoxicated when I read it the first time :P :P :P The "not in play" clause makes it interesting, but I still feel like it's not cool to just shut down so many things at once.
Logged
asmoranomardicodais
Basic User
**
Posts: 318


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2006, 07:01:02 pm »

Pithing Needle does it one at a time though, and you have to know what to name. 
Anyway, to be fair, I was a little intoxicated when I read it the first time Razz Razz Razz The "not in play" clause makes it interesting, but I still feel like it's not cool to just shut down so many things at once.

This is one of the few times where Norm4eva and I agree. This feels like a colored ability, possibly green, but as an artifect, I'm just not sold yet.
Logged
PucktheCat
My interests include blue decks, arguing, and beer.
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 549


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2006, 08:05:21 pm »

It seems to me like a pretty close relative of Damping Matrix, Null Rod, and Pithing Needle.  Are there any close colored analogues?
Logged
Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
Administrator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 8074


When am I?


View Profile Email
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2006, 08:22:21 pm »

It seems to me like a pretty close relative of Damping Matrix, Null Rod, and Pithing Needle.  Are there any close colored analogues?
Not really. This is very clearly artifact design space.
Logged

Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2006, 10:56:08 pm »

What do you think of "Astral Construct" as the card name?
Logged
Matt
Post like a butterfly, Mod like a bee.
Moderator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 2297


King of the Jews!


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2006, 12:06:52 am »

I think that name is good but not for this card. A construct could do anything, can you give it a name more specifically suited to these abilities?
Logged

http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF
----------------------
SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary
SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right
SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar
----------------------
noitcelfeRmaeT
{Team Hindsight}
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2006, 10:48:59 am »

I'm taking suggestions for names. Null Scepter? Rod of Dispel Magic?
Logged
Matt
Post like a butterfly, Mod like a bee.
Moderator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 2297


King of the Jews!


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2006, 03:50:59 pm »

Rod of Dispel Magic is way too D&D for me.
Logged

http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF
----------------------
SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary
SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right
SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar
----------------------
noitcelfeRmaeT
{Team Hindsight}
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2006, 10:29:01 pm »

I like D&D names. And so does WotC, apparently...

[card]Drowned Rusalka[/card]?
[card]Hunted Lammasu[/card]?
[card]Steamcore Weird[/card]?
Logged
Matt
Post like a butterfly, Mod like a bee.
Moderator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 2297


King of the Jews!


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2006, 10:56:53 pm »

Those aren't what I mean by D&D names. I'm thinking of the names of things that are exactly what they do: names like [card]Reverse Damage[/card] and [card]Animate Wall[/card] and Control Magic.

And, for that matter, Counterspell. ;D
Logged

http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF
----------------------
SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary
SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right
SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar
----------------------
noitcelfeRmaeT
{Team Hindsight}
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2006, 11:09:25 pm »

Those aren't what I mean by D&D names. I'm thinking of the names of things that are exactly what they do: names like [card]Reverse Damage[/card] and [card]Animate Wall[/card] and Control Magic.

And, for that matter, Counterspell. ;D

Oh, I see.
Logged
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2006, 09:28:16 am »

Still needs a name.

Edit: Annulus? Incorporeal Disharmonics? Staff of Planar Defense?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2006, 10:49:53 pm by Marco » Logged
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2006, 09:36:35 am »

Okay:

Null Scepter
{4}
Artifact
Players can't play activated abilities of cards not in play.

Now it hoses all cards with Transmute and all cards with Forecast.

If we think it shouldn't hose Elvish Spirit Guides or other cards we desgin with mana abilities that are activated outside of play, then we can make it:

Null Scepter
{4}
Artifact
Players can't play activated abilities of cards not in play unless they're mana abilities.
Logged
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2006, 11:18:45 am »

24 hour clock on current wording.
Logged
Matt
Post like a butterfly, Mod like a bee.
Moderator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 2297


King of the Jews!


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2006, 12:43:17 pm »

Since there's only one not-in-play mana ability I know of, I think this is fine.
Logged

http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF
----------------------
SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary
SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right
SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar
----------------------
noitcelfeRmaeT
{Team Hindsight}
Ephraim
Moderator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 2938


The Casual Adept

LordZakath
View Profile
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2006, 02:35:28 pm »

I like the word "Keepstone" from the initial post; or you could use "Nullstone" as in "Nullstone Gargoyle."  From the flavour text, "Nullstone absorbs and dampens most forms of magical energy, as well as light, sound, and heat."  With that in mind, some other artifact made out of Nullstone would be very appropriate for this card.  I'm rooting for something that suggests an ability to envision or predict the future, which would mesh well with the fact that this affects cards not-in-play.  Something like Nullstone Eye or Nullstone Tablet would be kind of neat.
Logged

Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
Marco
Basic User
**
Posts: 767


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2006, 02:57:45 pm »

I like Nullstone Tablet. Change made.

Thanks Ephraim.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.046 seconds with 21 queries.