[Deck] The Jester - Tourney Report moved to proper forum

[b-tings]

Playing Sapphire into Chalice for 0 is tech.

[madmanmike25]

Ok, if you decide to add back the smokestacks you should call the deck "Caps Lock" (aka the yelling buton on the left side of your keyboard)  It has a nice ring to it.

I do miss aggro, but I can count toooo many games where my opponent still won despite me casting early juggs.  I believe Stax is a much more powerful card, an obvious statement but still....  Forgive me, He Who Cannot Be Blocked By Walls And Must Attack Each Turn If Possible!! I have forsaken thee!

I love the 4 sprees in the SB Im seeing.  Thats nice.  

As for my vote, I say keep it mono red.

And I heard Uba does nothing against combo?  While clearly it wont beat it like a redheaded stepchild, dont forget the lock with an active welder.  Sometimes even taking that land card slows them down enough.  An uba first turn never sux on the play, unless it does...

If it was up to me I might try:  The ever so standard 47 plus

3 uba
3 caps
3 resistor
4 tangle

What do ya think?

Are shards a little overkill?  I seem to remember Vromen played with them a long time ago then chose to cut them.  But then again, I apologize, I simply prefer lock components now to beatdown.  Try to perfect 2 versions of your cap deck and i will gladly test the stax one.

p.s. If you can convice Vintage players to play with walls, I will gladly sign the petition to bring back juggernaut.  Thats uber tech, take that Wall of Wood!

[yespuhyren]

First of all, we only play them to get rid of welders

@B-Tings.  The first Me/Him is what we had in play.  The play by play starts at casting sol ring.

[Evenpence]

21 lands
9 artifact mana
4 Cap
4 Crucible
4 Welder
4 Chalice
1 Trinisphere
4 Juggernaut
3 Granite Shard
4 Uba Mask
2 Heretic

That's Yespuhyren's most recent list.

I'm going to start testing this list:

21 Ubastax Lands
9 Regular Artifact Mana

4 Welder
4 Jester's Cap
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Uba Mask
4 Tangle Wire
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Winds of Change
3 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Tormod's Crypt

SB:
4 Shattering Spree
4 Granite Shard
4 Triskelion
3 Tormod's Crypt

3 Beaters is enough for me.  The Winds of Change are in there to get rid of the opponent's hand with Uba Mask.  The disruption included in the package is:  Chalice, Tangle Wire, and to a lesser extent:  Uba Mask.  Uba is really good at getting rid of counters.

You might ask:  "Why 3 Karn?"  We have so many stay-in play artifacts, this guy is so much more important to resolve than Juggernaut.  If this guy resolves, we win the game in 2 turns or less, period.  I don't think we need Granite Shards in the MD for opposing welders, as we have recurrable barbarian rings, and chalices at 1.  The SB is pretty much self explainitory.  I'm going to see where the deck fails and where it really likes being taken.  The idea of this deck is to be able to RFG all of the opponent's resources from the game.  First with Jester's Cap, then being able to RFG the hand via Winds of Change, or the Graveyard via single Tormod's Crypt.  I'm thinking about taking out another Winds of Change, as well.  Maybe doing 2/2 with Crypt/WindsoChange.

[yespuhyren]

I have changed it up a bit for the tourney tomorrow.  Its funny, that now you post yours, its quite similar.  The SB is the exact same, but the MD is a bit different. 

// Lands
    4  Wasteland
    4  Bazaar of Baghdad
    4  Barbarian Ring
    3  Mountain
    1  Strip Mine
    1  Tolarian Academy
    4  Mishra's Workshop

// Creatures
    4  Goblin Welder
    2  Karn, Silver Golem
    2  Viashino Heretic

// Spells
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Emerald
    4  Crucible of Worlds
    4  Jester's Cap
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Uba Mask
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mana Vault
    4  Chalice of the Void
    1  Trinisphere
    1  Tormod's Crypt
    4  Tangle Wire

// Sideboard
SB: 4  Triskelion
SB: 4  Shattering Spree
SB: 4  Granite Shard
SB: 3  Tormod's Crypt

[Evenpence]

The RFG idea isn't working out too keen.  Winds of Change is absolutely amazing when I can get it to stick, but people over MWS play so much crap aggro it's unbelievable.  I went up against like, 5x white/blue/black fish variants, and 2x birdshit along with some other jank aggro too.  Your list looks fine though.  The single Tormod's Crypt is a house.  Well, sometimes.  Other times it's a dead card.

[yespuhyren]

Even if you can't use it, you can still bazaar it away, or its another 0 drop card to weld into Karn or Wire

[Evenpence]

21 LANDS
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
4 Barbarian Ring
3 Mountain
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine

9  ARTIFACT ACCELERANTS
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl

16  CORE-LIKE STUFF
4 Jester's Cap
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Goblin Welder
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere

14  WHATEVER YOU WANT
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
3 Uba Mask
3 Karn, Silver Golem

15  SIDEBOARD
3 Shattering Spree
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Defense Grid
3 Granite Shard
3 Duplicant

I'm going to try this list for a while.  It's a really tempo-oriented version of the deck.  I'm sad that there's no Smokestack in there.  I doubt this will work, but it might be really good.  The mana curve for this thing is enormous.  Especially with all the 4-counts.  I wanted 3 Karn because if he resolves, he wins games.  Plus, he's the only beater I have in there.  I might go with 2 Karn, 1 Triskelion, just because.  Welder is so important in this version it's crazy.  Just trying new things and seeing how they work.  I've given up on RFG JESTER for the most part.  I need better decks to play against over MWS.

[Burntgerbil]

This deck looks like a blast to play. We'll give it a whirl down here in our aggro light meta in Savannah. Sad to see winds go. Woulda loved to see them in a t1 deck.

[Evenpence]

They still have potential, but as I see them right now, they can actually be a good sideboard card against decks like Gifts, or Slaver.  Gifts is really the only deck that I'd really like to see Winds in against, because you can wreck their hand, or completely twist it away if you have Uba out.  Defense Grid actually isn't as good against Gifts as Winds of Change are, but I digress.

Yespuhyren has come out with a pretty solid list, he says, and he's gonna play it in a tournament tomorrow.  He'll let us know how it goes.  He's writing a report.

[yespuhyren]

Tournament report moved into Tournament Report area.  http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27778.0

[Evenpence]

Yespuhyren, you need Mana Vault, Sol Ring, and Mana Crypt in your list.  (You seem to have forgot them in the list).

Smokestack is a fine addition instead of Triskelion.  We could theoretically take out a mountain as well (red sources aren't as needed, and we have ALOT of mana sources in right now).  Smokestack or any other 4-of could go in this spot, then.  I'm not a huge fan of Stax, but it provides an alternate way to win the game, heh.  2 Karn should be randomly good enough.    We'll continue optimizing the build.

[Moxlotus]

That IT player may be the worst player ever.  Who fetches seas?

Congrats on the top 8 though

[yespuhyren]

I was talking to my teammate about possibly putting smokeys back in.  I'm not the biggest fan either, but technically its probably better than most of the other options.  I'll try -1 mountain, +4 smokeys.


Another thing I'd be interested to try out, since we no longer run Null Rods, is Null Brooch.  With an empty hand (preferably under Uba), this becomes an incredible every turn counterspell.

[brianpk80]

I was talking to my teammate about possibly putting smokeys back in.  I'm not the biggest fan either, but technically its probably better than most of the other options.  I'll try -1 mountain, +4 smokeys.


Another thing I'd be interested to try out, since we no longer run Null Rods, is Null Brooch.  With an empty hand (preferably under Uba), this becomes an incredible every turn counterspell.

While this seems like a good idea, I'd test them heavily before bringing them to
any tournament with confidence.  I've done a lot of experimenting with Null Brooch
and my experience with it has been that for every 1 game that it becomes a virtual
Erayo's Essence, there are 3 or 4 more where either its casting and activation cost
are prohibitive or tangle up resources better spent elsewhere, or it simply comes
as too little too late (for instance, after an early Tinker), or the deck I'm facing
packs most of its threats in creature form (uncounterable by Brooch).     

Best luck with the deck though,

-Brian (BPK)

[dicemanx]

Solid top 8 performance - perhaps Cap will spread a little terror locally and might increase the Fish and bad aggro counts in the process? I know those timed t8s are awful, but theres nothing that the TO can do . I was a victim of that too in a previous t8. However, you made a tragic strategic mistake in that t8 match. The timed match was definitely in your favor, because you has far more damage dealers than him. You should have played your 3rd game normally and take the mulligan, since like you said a CotV early might have been trouble if you were fortunate to find it in your hand of 6 (or 5). You were unnecessarily tempted by that turn 2 Karn. Its too bad - it would have been interesting to see how far this deck could go. What would you play in the semis and finals had you won?

[SiegeX]

Back when I was playing Affinity I thought of a card that I haven't seen anywhere that was the "Super Secret Tech", only problem was that affinity was all about aggro and this aforementioned card was all about control, so it just didn't fit.  However, I think your deck is the perfect home for it.  And the secret card is........................... ...........STORAGE MATRIX!  If you swap the mountains for great furnaces, you simply name artifact, practically all your crap untaps.  With tanglewire out it becomes pretty brutal.  The slight problem is that SoloMoxen are everywhere in T1 so they still have mana, but your 4x chalice can deal with those.   Anyway if you use it, I think the name "Caps Lock" like previously mentioned would be a more fitting title =).

[Jacob Orlove]

No more discussing the Dragon matchup in this thread--that has been fully explored in the separated thread.

[yespuhyren]

After a lot of testing, at the moment I am satisfied with filling the 3 Trike slots with 3 Sphere of Resistances.  The deck now looks like this

47
4 Uba
4 Wire
3 Resistor
2 Karn

SB:

3 Shattering Spree
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Granite Shard
4 Defense Grid

[Moxlotus]

In principle, I would agree with that move.  With the 57 cards, on paper it looks like you will be hurting bad against Slaver and random aggro, and be around even against combo.  I'd use those last 3 slots to push that match over the edge.  SoR is the worst card storm combo can run into.

Have you given up with an aggro build then?

[Gekoratel]

In your 3rd round you knew that you were playing against IT tech and yet you sideboarded as follows:
Game 2:  +3 Tormod’s Crypt, +3 Defense Grid, -2 Karn, -3 Trike, -1 Crucible

Was this a mistake or is this always how you sideboard against combo decks?  Boarding in Crypt is obviously correct because the man plan is much worse against your deck.  What I didn't understand was boarding in Defense Grid in this match.  There are many variations on the IT decklist but the number of relevant spells that Defense Grid hits will be 3-5.  If you play against the standard Day 1 list your opponent will have 3x Force of Will for relevant spells to hit.  If you are lucky your opponent will have 2x Remand to go with forces but still that’s only 5 cards.  You didn't mention seeing your opponent cast Remand so as far as you know they don't have it. 

The only reason I can think of boarding in Defense Grid is because of Rebuild but casting it main-phase can't be that bad for this deck.  Are the cards that you’re boarding out so bad that it's worth bringing in cards that are only semi-relevant?

The report was pretty entertaining and I wish you luck in the future with your deck.

[yespuhyren]

I never was really into the aggro idea THAT much, I mean, I wanted to do the aggro deck, but I always felt that it was meant to be more of a control deck.  One thing I find when I play this deck, and when I watch other people play this deck, is VERY few people actually go for the Uba lock.  Most people try and do other things, but completely forget just how strong the Uba lock can really be.  This is why I have always kept to 4 Uba masks.  

I believe this deck should stay control, though the way this is built, it isn't really semetrical pain.  I mean, sphere and wire affect both of us, but it USUALLY affects my opponent more than me.  With a sphere/wire under Uba Mask, the opponent will often be stuck RFG'ing cards, and not being able to play them.  The wire RARELY affects me, as I often just tap down chalices, uba, itself, and other random lands.

This deck is really starting to come together, though its hard to test the SB because I have to metagame for online decks, which are vastly different from the normal metagame.  The online players are a bunch of SAVAGE netdeckers who can't really play their decks that well apart from the occasional TMD member.  I know this, because since SCG, there are SOOOO many people playing Ichorid and lesser versions of this deck, which is great, because bad ichorid players keep losing to me, and bad Uba players are also losing to me as well .

I think the SB will just have to be decided upon before the tournament, though I'm happy with it so far.  There is usually 3-4 stax lists at best, in which case only 3 shattering sprees are necessary.  There is lots of random combo and ichorid now, in which case the 4 Crypts are awesome.  THere is lots of aggro, ichorid, and SOME slaver, in which case the Granite shards are awesome.  The Duplicants are strictly against oath, because without these or a successful cap, we're doomed.


EDIT:

In your 3rd round you knew that you were playing against IT tech and yet you sideboarded as follows:
Game 2:  +3 Tormod’s Crypt, +3 Defense Grid, -2 Karn, -3 Trike, -1 Crucible

Was this a mistake or is this always how you sideboard against combo decks?  Boarding in Crypt is obviously correct because the man plan is much worse against your deck.  What I didn't understand was boarding in Defense Grid in this match.  There are many variations on the IT decklist but the number of relevant spells that Defense Grid hits will be 3-5.  If you play against the standard Day 1 list your opponent will have 3x Force of Will for relevant spells to hit.  If you are lucky your opponent will have 2x Remand to go with forces but still that’s only 5 cards.  You didn't mention seeing your opponent cast Remand so as far as you know they don't have it. 

The only reason I can think of boarding in Defense Grid is because of Rebuild but casting it main-phase can't be that bad for this deck.  Are the cards that you’re boarding out so bad that it's worth bringing in cards that are only semi-relevant?

Realistically, I brought it in because it was more useful than 2x Karn and 1x Crucible.  It fetches mostly basics, and its a fast paced game.  It was 100% the right decision as well, because I got it into play Turn 1, and he couldn't counter another spell I played all game.  That left me free to do whatever I wanted, and that made it an easy victory.  It also meant he couldn't rebuild/hurky'ls/intuition/do anything on my turn, because he wouldn't have the resources.

The report was pretty entertaining and I wish you luck in the future with your deck.

Thanks

I would agree that bringing in Grids for Trikes is a terrible idea.  Trike completely destroys plan B for IT--Dark Confidant.  Grids put a minor speedbump in Plan A.

I didn't know they had Confidants in the board, I didn't pay that much attention to the list on TMD, I just knew about the deck's existence, and the basic principles of how the deck works.  Had I known about confidants, I would have kept Trikes in.  2x Karn and 1 Crucible were actually the 2nd things I sided out, as a late decision to bring in Defense Grids.  My first impulse ALL day and in EVERY match pretty much, was to side out 3x Triskelion for 3x T-Crypt.  Had I not brought in the Grids, Karns and crucible would still be in the deck.  Now that I know they SB in Confidants, I would SB OUT trikes in favor of Granite Shards.

[Moxlotus]

I would agree that bringing in Grids for Trikes is a terrible idea.  Trike completely destroys plan B for IT--Dark Confidant.  Grids put a minor speedbump in Plan A.

[yespuhyren]

Answered at the end of my last post.  With regards to the SB, do you feel it is adequate for a general meta?  Or do you have some ideas of things that could be more useful?

[Moxlotus]

You look like you're bringing in 8 cards against Slaver.  Do you actually have that many cards you want out?  My thinking is if there is only like 6 cards that you really want out, and 2 that you are also bringing out, you could instead cut 2 cards for things useful in other matches.

[yespuhyren]

Against slaver, I would want to cut

4 Uba Mask
3 Trike
1 ?

For

4 Shard
4 Crypt

On another note, this is from the tourney

I didn't want to play with WB cards if I could avoid it.  Here is my Mana Vault, it was UL.  It says "I hate FBB, Beta is in the mail, and CE is illegal.  This is the best I got!  English is TECH!  I tried to make sure the black borders looked fake, not well done, so it would add to the funniness

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/yespuhyren/ManaVault.jpg

And the Jester's cap, though harder to read, I didn't want to play IT WB (Its 5th) and didn't have a black sharpie.  So I used a red pen, and colored the borders.  I also wrote "Hand me your Will, Tendrils, Tinker.  Cap you ass, GG YOU LOSE!"  The red dot in the middle of his forehead somewhat like one of the Hindu religious symbols was not drawn on purpose.  I put it in when it was wet, and it happened to smudge in the right place on the sleeve so it just happened to be in the middle of the jester's forehead, between the eyes.  It was hilarious because it was unintentional, and lucky.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/yespuhyren/JestersCap.jpg

Giant images aren't allowed in serious threads for the same reason they're not allowed in signatures. Changed to links.
-Jacob

[Juggernaut GO]

Ok, I realize there isn't exactly a whole lot of other things being discussed in the vintage open forum, but how many times are we going to see the same stuff re-hashed over and over again.  The original uba stax thread got closed because the whole argument was about changing like 6 maindeck/sideboard cards.  I see the same pointless chat going on in this thread, where every other post is "Oh, I changed this 1 card for this other card and it completely owns!."

I can understand making top 8 2 days in a row is an accomplishment, but this deck is really nothing new.  You took uba stax and made it competitive again in a real metagame. 

A guy named James Coffman used to top 8 at every richmond playing juggernut+stax, with caps sideboard as well.  If you guys want to keep going over the few cards your changing maindeck, why not keep it to PM's.  It hurts my eyes to see you all argue back and forth about matchups and how undefeatable the deck is.

[yespuhyren]

I personally don't believe it is undefeatable.  I would RATHER hear other decks telling me how they beat it, and how I can fix the weaknesses.  This is where granite shards came in against CS.  Defense grids are new against Drain decks because the powered up drains were brutal.  If people say gifts is going to wreck this, then great.  Tell me that, and ALSO say what is gifts weakness.  What does THIS deck need to do to beat gifts.  This is what it should look like.

[Disburden]

Ok, I realize there isn't exactly a whole lot of other things being discussed in the vintage open forum, but how many times are we going to see the same stuff re-hashed over and over again.  The original uba stax thread got closed because the whole argument was about changing like 6 maindeck/sideboard cards.  I see the same pointless chat going on in this thread, where every other post is "Oh, I changed this 1 card for this other card and it completely owns!."

I can understand making top 8 2 days in a row is an accomplishment, but this deck is really nothing new.  You took uba stax and made it competitive again in a real metagame. 

A guy named James Coffman used to top 8 at every richmond playing juggernut+stax, with caps sideboard as well.  If you guys want to keep going over the few cards your changing maindeck, why not keep it to PM's.  It hurts my eyes to see you all argue back and forth about matchups and how undefeatable the deck is.

I agree with Juggernaut. It seems these Uba stax type threads are taking over all the space in the Open Forum, which is okay, but it seems the discussion goes around in circles and gets closed within 5 pages. I like the deck idea, it looks good, but I can't help but agree, sorry guys.

[einlanzer625]

I personally don't believe it is undefeatable.  I would RATHER hear other decks telling me how they beat it, and how I can fix the weaknesses.  This is where granite shards came in against CS.  Defense grids are new against Drain decks because the powered up drains were brutal.  If people say gifts is going to wreck this, then great.  Tell me that, and ALSO say what is gifts weakness.  What does THIS deck need to do to beat gifts.  This is what it should look like.

Curious, have you tried pitihing needles in the deck? they seem like theyd be decent against decks that dont run welder, such as gifts, on the offchance that you dont hit your cap.  You could name Time Vault or something of the like.