If They Mated: Stax and Fish

[GrandpaBelcher]

One of my friends who always played MBC and I always joke about making Mono-black versions of different decks.  Besides MBFish, this is probably the only one that has a good chance of making it somewhere--BlackStax.

3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Braids, Cabal Minion

8 Swamp
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
4 Dark Ritual

3 Withered Wretch
3 Hypnotic Specter
4 Dark Confidant

1 Grim Tutor (or another tutor)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Necropotence

4 Duress
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Null Rod
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Darkblast

I know this deck looks kind of sad, too MBC to be good, but it does get some good draws and some strong plays toward winning.  The lock, like in Stax, is Crucible and a permanent that requires a sacrifice.  In this play, Smokestacks will be played by Braids.  It comes down just as quickly thanks to Dark Ritual; it attacks for 2; and the lock is somewhat resistant to artifact hate.

Duress is a great proactive control card, especially when it and Dark Ritual facilitate the casting of a first turn Dark Confidant.  The drawback of Duress and Hyppie putting things in the graveyard to be Welded or Willed later is negated by the use of Withered Wretch, which also makes for a great game against Ichorid.

Necropotence is great in this deck, as in other decks.  However unlike in combo where the idea is to tune your hand with one big Necro and win next turn, here it's usually used to fill your hand at the end of every turn, which usually means drawing three or four.  Bob shines as always, drawing cards around Necro and giving himself nobly to Cabal Therapy if life gets tight.

Demonic Tutor is a given, though I'm not quite sure about Grim.  I originally had the deck with Demonic Consultation, and that actually worked out pretty well since there are a number of multiples to find.

I also feel like everything after Duress on the list can be tuned to suit your particular metagame.  The options are numerous:  Chalice, Rod, Pithing Needle, Therapy, Diabolic Edict, Darkblast, Ghost Quarter, Tormod's Crypt, Chains of Mephistopheles, Jester's Cap, even more creatures like Wretch, Hyppie and Negator.

I can't really speak to matchups very much as I have just begun to test it.  There's a lot of room for redundancy, though, so with the right metagame slots and sideboard it could have a lot of game against a wide variety of archetypes.

Build it on your own or tear it down here.  It's just a thought.

[roberts91rom]

I always joked about an Extended mono-black stax using Braids. In Type 1, please, for the love of God don't run braids. Try Sui-Black, do a Mono-Black Fish. Leave stax out of this though. Otherwise your deck is good, but get rid of Braids. Its not like Sui has a good match-up against Stax anyways, and your giving them a free smokestack. Not good.

[GrandpaBelcher]

Well, that's what sideboards are for.  I realize I don't have one made up for this, but you could easily take all four Braids out for an extra Crucible and 3 Sarcomancies.  That speeds your clock and gives you extra permanents to sac.  Also, not every opponent will be playing Stax.

Besides, Braids does have some advantages over Smokestacks.  For one, the opponent has to sacrifice something the turn after it comes into play, not wait until the turn after you put a counter on it.  For another, if you can stay ahead of the sacrifcing, Braids makes its own clock, and with Bob, Wretch, and Hyppie backing it up, it's a significant clock.  Plus, maybe thier Stax is giving you an extra Braids!

[specter]

I play a similar deck, too. Of course Stax is a big problem for this deck. So Braids has to be leave the maindeck against Stax. I do not have a great sideboard option against Stax yet. I think about a red splash for Heretic or Gorilla Shamans but I cannot afford Duals and Fetch at the moment and there are no proxie events here.

The idea is to have a suicide black disruption but unlike Sui you do not use your disruption for a fast win with Negators etc. You try to get control over the board with Braids and/or Crucible and keep on disrupting your oponent like Stax might do. Ensaring Bridge is big help against most Creature based decks and saves your life points hopefully just long enough to win. You can win with Creature beat down, a Braids and/or Crucible lock, multiple Racks and Stabwisker or with Yawgmoth`s Will for Rituals plus multiple Hymn to Tourach and Racks.

The List

4x Braids
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Nezumi Shortfang

4x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Crucible of Worlds
4x The Rack

1x Yawgmoth`s Will
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor

4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Duress
4x Dark Ritual

1x Volrath Stronghold
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
16x Swamp

Sideboard:

4x Diabolic Edict
4x Withered Wretch
3x Nevs Disk
2x Cranial Extraction
2x Pithing Needle

[Ben Kossman]

I would run one copy of Braids but 4 seems a bit excessive.

[Mr. Type 4]

Braids vs. Stack (which stars to degenerate into workshop vs ritual)

Braids- GOOD-Can't be hit by artifact hate, can attack for damages. Opponent has to sacrifice something on the turn you play it.
BAD- Legendary.  Can't be ramped up, doesn't come out with Workshop mana.  Workshops can be reused turn after turn and have synergy with Crucible.  Dark Ritual doesn't have this advantage.  Ritual also sucks if you have to use Chalice =1.  Deck contains no Yawgmoth's Will, so extra synergies from Dark rituals are not realized.  Balance is bad news. 

Smokestack- GOOD can be played out with workshop.  Can be ramped up, not legendary. 
BAD- can be destroyed with artifact removal, doesn't attack for damage on its own.

I'm pretty sure from this analysis that even if you're using dark ritual and not shop to power out your cards, that Smokestack will probably STILL be better because you can ramp it up. Also, vs this deck, the creature removal sides in, not artifact removal, so Braids is certainly not safer to play than Stack.
 

[specter]

Of course Stax is a more powerful deck. But without the money for Workshops, Mox etc. I tried to play a budget deck like Suicide Black that works in someways like Stax.

Of course Smokestacks has some advantage over Braids. Therefore I will think about playing Smokestacks over Braids. At the moment I play Braids because she is fast and she can beat, too. Volraths Stronghold is no Welder but you can get it back with Crucible of Worlds and it gets Braids back. Its a real problem that you cannot set Braids at two... Therefore graveyard hate, Nevs Disk might be needed... but its a problem even so.

Braids (like Smokestacks as well) works together with other cards like Crucible of Worlds or The Rack. Braids and The Rack are no hard lock and not really a soft lock but they work together pretty well, because Braids wants you to play cards and The Rack wants you to keep cards in your hand.

Braids (or Smokestacks) is four times in this deck, because she keeps the advantage that Hymn of Tourach, Strip/Waste, Duress, Hypnotic Specter, Ensnaring Bridge are giving you. For example if there would not be Smokestacks in Stax your opponent would be able to get into the play wants he has enough lands and moxes to ignore your spheres or Tangel Wires. Same is true for Suicide Black. Hymn of Tourach or Sinkhole used to be great disruption (not as good any more) but after some turns your opponent will get anyway. Therefore it was important to kill fast with Negators, Hyppies or Shades. Braids (or Smokestacks) will keep your opponents lands at a minimum what means that he cannot play all spells in his hand and so your hand disruption still has targets. Furthermore your cardadvantage by Hymns, Hyppies becomes more powerful if you force your opponent to sacrifice cards. This idea is common in chess, where the player with a stronger board position is more willing to sacrifice figures with equal value.

Well, Yawgmoths Will is in my deck. This card is important for my "combo kill" with dark rituals, Hymns and Racks.

However, I think I will try Smokestacks!

[GrandpaBelcher]

We actually proxied this deck (with a few changes) this weekend.

I think the biggest advantage Braids gives is that it starts sacrificing right away rather than waiting to get counters.  This means that if you can drop it first turn along with a few other permanents like moxes or a chalice or whatever, the opponent starts off with a big hole to crawl out of.  With added removal from Duress and Hypnotic Specter, the oppoent can be playing off the topdeck with an empty board in a hurry.  This is why Braids is a four-of; it must be seen early.

Chalices, however, are a weakness in this deck, since dropping one for 0 or 1 is a huge liability.  BlackStax needs to play moxes (even ones that are Null Rodded) to sacrifice to Braids, and it needs to play Dark Rituals and Duresses.  This is why Chalice is only a two-of.

The biggest strength this deck has over Stax, though, is a better draw-engine.  A first turn Dark Ritual into Duress and Dark Confidant is a terrific start.  Way better than Mox into Confidant.  With or without Duress, first turn Confidant on the play, second turn Braids is an insane and not all that unlikely start.

Plus, the mana base is incredibly stable, and, like Fish, the deck and the sideboard are incredibly customizable.

[M.Solymossy]

Ctrl + F:

"Vampiric tutor"
"Imperial Seal"
"Smokestack"
"Chalice of the void"
"sphere of resistance"
"Mishra's workshop"

No search Criteria found


You can still play these cards, and Keep the mono-black theme.  Vamp and Imperial should be AUTO over grim.   Smokestack should be in over braids (4 is easier than 2bb) and chalice or sphere should auto-include.

and just because the deck is black, doesn't mean Mishra's workshop isn't needed.

[Fred The Ev]

Ctrl + F:

"Vampiric tutor"
"Imperial Seal"
"Smokestack"
"Chalice of the void"
"sphere of resistance"
"Mishra's workshop"

No search Criteria found


You can still play these cards, and Keep the mono-black theme. Vamp and Imperial should be AUTO over grim. Smokestack should be in over braids (4 is easier than 2bb) and chalice or sphere should auto-include.

and just because the deck is black, doesn't mean Mishra's workshop isn't needed.

Mishra's isn't here, but consider dark ritual to be a more flexible, less static version of workshop. It only hangs around one turn, but it allows the same first turn brokenness (braids or other) and can be used to play solutions as well, something workshops cannot do.

You are correct, however, about the tutors.

[GrandpaBelcher]

This deck, with a few minor changes to the metagame cards, T8'd at the Columbus full-proxy tournament this weekend.  There's a good chance it would have made T4 if my friend had mulliganed his 3 Mox, Strip Mine, no other mana hand in the third game against Grimlong or had used it to play a Chalice of the Void at 1 instead of 0 as he did.

In all seriousness, this deck has some good games and is very adaptable.  I didn't play the deck or play against it, but I'll see if I can get my friend who did to make some posts here.

[Kasuras]

I recall a similar approach from Zherbus about 3 years (?) ago; sadly, Trinisphere was still unrestricted at that moment. Nonetheless;

1) Are you willing to add colors to improve this deck? I honestly don't see any reason not to include at least Balance.
2) the 2-ofs, Chalice, Null Rod, Cabal Therapy to name a few, seem random. Make up your mind about these.
3) I cannot see how you can make a MBC deck without at least Chains of Mephistopheles.
4) Have you considered Sphere of Resistance?
5) The 1-ofs were good in, say, keeper and old suicide because keeper ran a lot more tutors and the 1-ofs were not essential to suicide's plan. In your deck, they do seem yet your number of tutors is heavily lacking.

Looking at your deck, I think you stand a better chance making a suicide variant with Sphere of Resistance and Chalice of the Void. Then again, I do not know whether that's your goal.