Fun Decks - Casual philosophy - and Haxor.dec

[Harlequin]

Mr. Type 4 posted a very Interesting link to an article:
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=26198.msg417050#msg417050 <-- TMD thread here
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/article/334/the-perfect-casual-format-part-1/ <-- Artical Here.

I have tons of friends who have just started getting into (or are resturning to) the game of magic.  I have gone in and out of severval Casual groups in the past year, and I have learned alot about what casual players have fun doing, and what is acceptable and not acceptable.  In the Thread above, I posted several "causally accepted combo" decks that I have tried...some more accpeted than others =/. 

I thought I would Open up a New thread as an Offshoot of where the Other thread was going.  Basically I wanted to give a shout out to some of the other "Johnnies" out there (wich describes me to the letter).

At the same time I wanted to open Up a thread about what decks some of the the more veteran players bring to the casual table to help "teach through playing" some of the finer rule points.  Here is the deck That I generally use to either "shake up" a stagnent casual group, OR help some of my friends learn the fine points of magic, without overwhelming them with a Vintage deck.

]-[4X0R.dec ---
L4dnz:
3  Seat of the Synod
3  Ancients Den
2  Adakar Wastes
3  Islands
2  Plains
3  Urza's Tower
2  Urza's Power Plant
2  Urza's Mine
1  Quicksand

M4n4 f1x0r:
3  Ashnods Alter
1  Krakclan Ironworks
4  Vedalken Engineer
2  Apprentice Wizard
1  Guilded Lotus
1  Gemstone Array

F1nd0rz:
3  Weathered wayfayer
4  Myr Retriver
1  Arcbound Reclaimer
1  Minds eye / Voltaic Key
2  Ritual of Restoration / Rystic Study


Tr1x:
3  Proteus staff
2  Sculpting Steel
3  Nucence Engine
1  Hornet Cannon
2  Preacher

W1nz:
1  Pentavise
1  Flowstone Sculpture
1  Soldevi Simulacrum
1  Arcbound Overseer
1  Arcbound Fiend


This deck is my current Casual Favorite.  Its combo enough to keep me happy and interested.  It is realatively easy for players to overpower, especially if they have some sweeping 1-2 damage stuff.  The deck got its name because I apparently "H4x" the combat phase with my combat tricks.  The situation that spawned this name was Exaulted angel was attacking me, I made a Hornet Token, blocked, and before damage was assigned I Ashnod's Altered the Token and re-create it as a 0/1 Pest tolken wich later was used for mana/staffing.  I had to explain why my opponent could not gain 4 life.

All in all the deck is fun.  Its also a GREAT deck for bringing casual players to the 'next level' of understanding the stack.  Allowing a casual player to watch you and constantly ask them "what is the best play?"  This get them thinking about the stack.  I prefer to have people watch over my sholder than try and give them advice while THEY are trying to play.  I think if they are trying to play and take advice at the same time, it can flusters them a bit.

On a similar note, this deck is not great to play against players who are "argumentative" about the rules.  In our casual ring, I am the un-offical rules judge, so people generally trust that my tricks are within the rules.  If anyone doesn't agree, I generally will reverse the game, and tell them I will look into the rules and get an offical ruleing.  As I said, I try to use it to teach other players, not impress/baffle them with my tricks.  No one likes to feel outsmarted.  In that same vien, I very often let opponents take back plays that they really should not have made (like attacking into my Arcbound Reclaimer + Proteus staff to pop a fat blocker from the bin into play).   

Lastly If my opponent is ready for the "next challenge" I put in Blinkmoths, Mishrah's Factories, and some other accellerants (like Talismen's and whatnot) as a replacement for a few Wayfayers, the Wizards and the Engineers.  This gives me more "Consistant brutality" with the Proteus Staff.  Again still well within the scope of Casual, but just a bit more challenging.   Staff Reclaimer Overseer Tricks for the win!

[Mr. Type 4]

Yeah, it's probably good we split this off from the previous thread which was getting off topic. 

One of my biggest concerns about this particular forum is that a lot of things are confusing to me, for insantce, I've read over a number of threads that go something like this:

Post a real janky deck (which is cool, this is the casual forum) THEN it goes, my local store is having a type one tournament that allows proxies and I want to play this in there, help me.

It seems like stuff like that would be better off in the Vintage improvement Forum.  I think this forum is much better served doing what Harlequin is advocating here: We share our cool ideas for interesting decks that aren't necessarily competitive in a tourmant environment.  I think the essence of casual play is to be able to play some decks that have some cool tricks that just wouldn't cut it at an SCG P9 event.

At the same time it is annoying for people to go back and forth arguing about "what is casual" and "what is fun".  What's important is "what is fun in your casual environment".  If you share your tech and someone says, "you ought to put Metalworker in there" then you need to decide if your friends are on the level where Metalworker will be cool. This is often mportant for another, competitive reason- I'd say most casual games are multiplayer, and if your deck is really degenerate in comparison to the Saproling/Fungal Bloom deck and the Breeding Pit/Ebon Preator deck that your buddies play, then sooner or later the other players aren't going to tolerate it and gun for you everygame, and believe it or not, there are cards that hose most strategies, and you shouldn't be surprised if they start packing that stuff just to beat you. 

These issues cause a breakdown in what is supposed to be "fun" magic, and really can lead it to not being fun at all.  This has all promted me to find solutions to the problems with the casual game.  I made up Type 4 because I was tired of argueing about what was fair to play in a casual deck, but I really think that casual Magic can work really well if you're in touch with your group. 

[Mr. Nightmare]

In my casual group, card access is the limiting factor.  Because of this, we mainly stick to a Legacy cardpool, but in general, if you own cards you can play them, excluding Un-cards.  This mostly ends at semi-powerful cards like Windfall, not at busted Yawg-wills and such.  I'm considering building a deck packing power, but I'm not sure how it will be recieved, so I hesitate.  These kids are the definition of casual, and even Dual lands are mostly out of their range.  So I try to assume I have similar collections going into it.  This helps to tone down the power level of the decks I build, and makes the experience more enjoyable for all involved.  I enjoy the challenge of winning with sub-par cards (when money isn't on the line), and they don't feel like I'm "buying" the win.

Because of the buget constraints, multi-color decks are inherently difficult to get working, so overpowered combos like the following become almost fair.

Kiki-Alarm

4x Kiki-Jiki
4x Intruder Alarm
4x Flame-Tongue Zubera

4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Kodoma's Reach
4x Eternal Witness
4x Serum Visions
4x Lifespark Spellbomb
4x Chromatic Sphere
2x Fireball

4x Forbidden Orchard (Great in Multiplayer Casual, wins friends and Influences people)
Xx Basics

It's obviously a rough list, and can be tuned at your leisure, but since the combo is 2 colors, and requires Green to fix mana (mostly) with an RRR requirement, it's fairly slow to develop and easy enough to disrupt.  Its usually only good for one or 2 wins before you become a target.

[Harlequin]

I think another really important deck trait that separates a Casual Deck from a "highly competative casual deck" is the number of 4-ofs you run.  For example in Mr. Nightmare's deck, there are mostly 4 ofs.  So in a casual type game, it is "only good for 2 or 3 games" before people get sick of it.  whenever I'm building a casual deck I try to stick primarily to 2 and 3-ofs.  This keeps the game to game plays fairly in-consistant.  Sometimes Im doing Preacher / Proteus staff, sometimes Pest / Alter Tricks, sometimes Arcbound / Retriver "gro" style deck.  It means sometimes your peices just don match like ... Preacher and Arcbound Reclaimer ... then your opponent has a good chance to beat your deck.  Then they feel good. 

If you have a highly consistent decks, then basically everyone elses deck will fall either "below" it all the time, or "above" it all the time.  And thats no fun for you or them depending on who is doing the loosing.  Keeping decks inconsistant is very healthy for a 'fun' casual enviroment (at least according to most players). 

[Mr. Nightmare]

I tend to agree with you on this point, Harlequin, but only to an extent.  I naturally want to play decks which are consistent.  That's just me.  If I'm playing a combo deck, I'm going into the night knowing people will get sick of it quickly.  When I do that, I bring at least a couple decks, so i know I can switch when necessary.  I think that's healthier (for me) than playing 6 bad combos together.  Its much more frustrating for me to get crapped out than it is for the rest of the group to just all lose at once, since that way we start a new game immediately.  With a deck that craps out, the rest of the game continues, and I get to be bored (sometimes for hours) while the rest of the players keep going.  This, again, is for combo decks only.  For more aggro or controlling decks, I am in full agreement with you, consistency isn't something I strive for.  When else do you get to hardcast some of the stupid big dudes that you just happen to draw?  Elder Dragon Legends FTW.

[Harlequin]

Right, I wasn't nessisarilly attack you, or your deck.  I was useing it as an example of something I would consider on the high end of competativeness for casual.  And something that designers should be aware of, like you are.

As you stated, you know that you will not be able to play this deck for 5 games in a row, and probably not in any large FFA game.  I think a good rule of thumb for FFA is that if you can take out ALL the players at once with a given deck, then it should not go into the FFA table.  You prepair by brining new combos week to week as well as multiple different decks.

Again, its casual, no one can really tell you what you 'can' and 'cannot' play.  Infact usually the card pool is poorly defined as well.  can I run 2 Fact or Fictions? who knows!  Basically its important to understand how powerful a certain deck is going to be in relation to the other decks around you.  If your running 4 Yawgmoths win in a creature deck ... sure whatever, I could really care less.  If your running a copy of tendrils of agony, however, then I think the deck is just getting abusive of the loose card pool definition pheonomina.