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vroman
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« on: May 21, 2006, 10:29:41 pm » |
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There was only 5 players, we ended up playing for greatly reduced prize, with no entry fee in round robin format. Final standings:
1/2 Kevin Brewer 5C stax - 2x Force Will 1/2 Robert Vroman Ubastax - volcanic island 3 Eric Becker IT - polluted delta 4 Blaine Christiansen RW goblins 5 Nick - ICBM oath
clearly this tournament isnt worth discussing in detail, but heres my current uba list for those interested: 4 shop 4 bazaar 3 wasteland 3 b-ring 3 mtn 2 rishadan port 9 artifact mana 1 academy 1 strip 1 tsphere 1 dup 1 jens 4 welder 4 uba 4 smoky 4 chalice 4 crucible 4 tangle 3 nrod side 3 jester 4 granite shard 3 vishnu heretic 2 duplicant 3 orb dreams however for this tiny event, I cut the dreamballs due to obvious lack of ichorid/gro, and filled out sets of jester, dup, heretic My 2 round mini report:
Rd 1 vs Nick Game 1 blown out by turn 2 orchard+oath, and I cant scramble smokestack in time. I sideboard 11 cards against oath these days: +4 granite shard +3 duplicant +4 jester cap -1 solemn -1 uba -1 welder -1 crucible -4 tangle -3 nrod
Game 2 Nick muls. I bait a few locks into forces, then resolve welder. I top deck bazaar and ditch 2x duplicant and jester for game
Game 3 close one. we both mul to 6. I open with shard. he plays some brainstorms and fetchlands, while I get mana flooded for awhile. then turn 4 he has oath and orchard, which is stymied by my shard. we are both in top deck mode and I draw chalice, and think about what threats I need to turn off. I have to protect my shard to prevent oath trigger, and theres a lot to worry about. at 1 theres oxidize and needle, at 2 is null rod, and 3 is energy flux. ultimately null rod is the most dangerous, since it will also shut off jester if I were to draw that. so I set chalice @ 2. he immediately rips vamp tutor for energy flux. my board after flux hits the table is: chalice, shard, port, 3x Mox, shop. I quickly lose my artifacts, but Nick misplays by not tapping his orchard until after I lose my shard, even though I was tapped out for several turns for flux. I draw sol ring, smokestack, and finaly barbarian ring. now that I can support a lock, I drop smokestack after he finaly gives me a token. Ive been holding 2x duplicant the whole time, but cant play it while paying for smokestack. I sack my token, ramp soot, use sol ring to pay for smoky, and leave my other 5 mana open, hoping to draw any mana source to take out his akroma. I luck out w shop#2, but Nick gets luckier and his one card in hand he drew after oathing up akroma was: annul. Nick had 2 orchards, so gives me two more tokens to get an oath trigger, and sacks down to 3 permanents before pulling up razia. I will be at 1 life after his combat phase, and I can push soot to 3, and duplicate his akroma. if he draws oxidize, annul, or ANY permanent, he will be able to save his razia and win. he does not. after soot clears his board, I bash a few turns w 6/6 dup for match.
Rd 2 vs Becker Game 1 I have turn 1 smoky, but he combos out before its relevent. I just board in jesters, taking out 2x crucible, solemn, dup.
Game 2 my plays: turn 1- welder 2 - tangle 3 - bazaar, welder#2 4 - bazaar away tangle#2 and smoky Becker scoops. Tanglewire is the best card in the deck against IT. Id almost rather see it then trinisphere, and definitely prefer tangle over jester cap.
Game 3 Becker leads w land-go, but says later he inexplicably misplayed by not laying his ruby in hand, knowing I dont play mox monkey anymore. I try for turn 1 smoky which is forced, but then I make the suboptimal play of chalice@0 on the draw, just bc Im feeling vulnerable. this turns out to make the difference. I topdeck another smoky into another force. turn 3 I draw smoky#3 which resolves. he gets Confidant on board, but I follow this up perfectly with tanglewire, and its looking bad for Becker. few turns of smoky+tangle action and I rip a welder to hammer home the locks. his board is cleared and the game is finished when I start jester recursion against his lands, with chalice@0 on the board.
After that, other player records made it logical to scoop to teamate Blaine to improve his chances of getting 3rd, and draw w Brewer to lock in 1st/2nd. I have favorable matchups against both goblins (thanks to quad dup/shard) and 5c stax, but there wasnt any reason to play it out. thanks to Tim the organizer for giving out a few decent cards for no money.
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« Last Edit: May 21, 2006, 10:45:42 pm by vroman »
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Unrestrict: Flash, Burning Wish Restore and restrict: Transmute Artifact, Abeyance, Mox Diamond, Lotus Vale, Scorched Ruins, Shahrazad Kill: Time Vault I say things http://unpopularideasclub.blogspot.com
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Evenpence
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« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2006, 11:48:55 pm » |
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Sorry to hear that there weren't many people there - any ideas why there were only five, though? Glad to hear that you're back in your normal winning habits. A few questions: Why Heretic over Spree? I don't know if I'll ever go back to Heretic after Richmond. Why no T-Crypt in the board? How have Null Rods been since you've added them back in? What do you think about Stax in the metagame today? (I imagine you still think it's fine, as you're still playing it). I, on the other hand, have shifted to a deck that consistently beats Slaver and Combo completely forefeiting the Stax matchup. I see you've cut a Wasteland (good for you!) and a B-ring (instead of a mountain?) to make room for two ports. Have ports been good at all? I can't imagine them being good at all ever. What's your reasoning for playing them? Also, have you tested a singleton maindeck Slaver since the last time we've talked? Singleton MD Slaver has been super-golden for me, I don't know if I could ever cut it. Thanks for the mini-report man. Good to see you're still playing Vintage - I still thought you were on your hiatus. We'll have to catch up. Colby EDIT: Also, Game 2 my plays: turn 1- welder 2 - tangle 3 - bazaar, welder#2 4 - bazaar away tangle#2 and smoky Becker scoops. Tanglewire is the best card in the deck against IT. Id almost rather see it then trinisphere, and definitely prefer tangle over jester cap. I have got to say that I agree completely. I've thought up until recently than Sphere is always better against combo, but it's not. Usually IT can build up a manabase to deal with your spheres, but Tangle Wire + Chalices force them to try to win quicker or lose. I also find it peculiar that you didn't board in some Granite Shards against Becker. Did you think he wasn't going to board them in, or are you just not worried about them? My testing has shown Turn 1 Dark Confidant wins the game against us 90% of the time.
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« Last Edit: May 21, 2006, 11:58:05 pm by Evenpence »
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[17:25] Desolutionist: i hope they reprint empty the warrens as a purple card in planar chaos
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AngryPheldagrif
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« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2006, 11:57:03 pm » |
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Yesterday was Regionals, thus anyone with any interest in trading or T2 would go to the 2-400 person tournaments.
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Evenpence
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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2006, 11:59:30 pm » |
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Yesterday was Regionals, thus anyone with any interest in trading or T2 would go to the 2-400 person tournaments.
I didn't realize that this tournament was on Saturday - I had thought it was on Sunday. I'm bad on dates. Team Blitzkrieg went to Maryland Regionals and destroyed...the side events. Meh.
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[17:25] Desolutionist: i hope they reprint empty the warrens as a purple card in planar chaos
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Moxlotus
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2006, 12:02:00 am » |
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The rest of GWS was working, getting trained to work, or at regionals. Matt Morrison made top 16 at one and Donovan got 5th at another--unfortunately for him the top 4 got invites.
GWS--2 years in a row getting people within 1 game of nationals.
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yespuhyren
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2006, 10:22:30 am » |
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UbaStax beats IT. Sweet. At least now we have proof from an UbaStax veteran against an IT veteran. Its obviously not that favorable, or he would have had no problem. Good job Vroman.
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Team Blitzkrieg: The Vintage Lightning War. TK: Tinker saccing Mox. Jamison: Hard cast FoW. TK: Ha! Tricked you! I'm out of targets
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M.Solymossy
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2006, 10:24:43 am » |
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We had Chris Niebor in the running until round 6 or 7. I forget which.
It was scary, we had a LOT of ICBMers there.
Tommy K: Izzetron Dan Carp: Soly's Husk deck Blake: Some scrub deck Niebor: Izzetron I@n: Dove-Inchi Code (his dovescape deck).
We also had myself and Matt Ladwig there, but neither of us played. If I would have played instead of just chilled, I would have played Heartbeat.
Champaigne isn't worth attending, apparently. See you all at Pastimes Saturday.
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~Team Meandeck~
Vintage will continue to be awful until Time Vault is banned from existance.
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Hydra
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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2006, 11:00:42 am » |
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UbaStax beats IT. Sweet. At least now we have proof from an UbaStax veteran against an IT veteran. Its obviously not that favorable, or he would have had no problem. Good job Vroman.
One match that went to game three does not equal proof of how a match-up goes. I could win a match with Goblins against Oath, doesn't mean that it's proof that Goblins beats Oath constantly. We had Chris Niebor in the running until round 6 or 7. I forget which.
It was scary, we had a LOT of ICBMers there.
Tommy K: Izzetron Dan Carp: Soly's Husk deck Blake: Some scrub deck Niebor: Izzetron I@n: Dove-Inchi Code (his dovescape deck).
We also had myself and Matt Ladwig there, but neither of us played. If I would have played instead of just chilled, I would have played Heartbeat.
Champaigne isn't worth attending, apparently. See you all at Pastimes Saturday.
Yeah, I just went to chill. Unloaded a ton of crap rares for good cards and made a profit out of the trip. Sadly, I failed to see Roxas kill any ninjas. I guess that only occurs when no one is looking.
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Mindstab_Thrull
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Squee must die!!
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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2006, 11:33:38 am » |
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.. So.. I'm trying to read through that deck list and I hate having to guess what people mean when they shorthand card names to weird stuff. Like '9 artifact mana' - ok I can guess Lotus, Mox x5, and Sol Ring, but wtf are the other two? I don't know decks well enough to be able to say 'obv it's Chrome Mox' or 'Mana Vault, definitely' or whatnot. And wtf are 'dreamballs'? Remember, not everyone that reads these posts is familiar with MTG slang - I only found out a couple days ago that Dark Confidant is referred to as 'Bob', and it took a few minutes before I realized the 'Jens' in your deck refers to Solemn Simulacrum. Can you fix this so it's actually readable? 
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vroman
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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2006, 11:51:13 am » |
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colby- -I went back to heretic simply bc I have fewer red sources now. spree is definitely better, but only w lots of red on board. -I cut tormod for dreamball bc: a) null rod, chalice@0 b) tormod = card disadvantage c) dreamball is functionally identical vs ichorid/dragon d) dreamball is better against more decks: ie oath, gro, combo -I realize ppl have been winning w non nrod ubastax, but I respectfully disagree cutting nrod is the right move. if the meta is shifted to more resilient mana bases, nrod is like the last good mana denial left. -Im probably going to play ubastax until they restrict either workshop or bazaar (in other words: forever). even if the meta is angled anti-stax, the power level of the deck is still at least marginally higher than everything else in the field. however Ive been working on a sweet new RBW hate deck w 4xhide/seek main. -rishadan port tests surprisingly well. its almost a stripmine, and in some situations better, since I can turn off drain mana even if they have UUU open, by tapping during their turn, and then tapping again in my turn. I cut b-ring instead of mtn, bc w the reduced red count, I added jens back to compensate, which is too weak w only 2 mtns. 4x granite shard covers my pinging needs abundantly, so b-ring#4 is not missed so much. -I have not tested slaver. null rod + 4 non shop mana makes it very non-obvious choice. if anything, Im thinking of bringing back sundering titan, for better island destruction posibilities. -I dont board in shard against IT bc bringing in 4 cards to deal w only 4 of his cards is not the best. confidant is big threat true, but not so bad as welder or spirit tokens. the reasoning is welder and spirits are potentialy game ending no matter when they hit table, while confidant is only a back breaker if he hits early. the odds of IT getting turn<3 confidant and me also having the shard ready to deal w it, is too low to justify potentialy sitting on dead cards if enemy never sees confidant.
mindstab thrull: 4 mishras workshop 4 bazaar baghdad 3 wasteland 3 barbarian ring 3 mountain 2 rishadan port 1 tolarian academy 1 stripmine 1 mox emerald 1 mox pearl 1 mox ruby 1 mox sapphire 1 mox jet 1 black lotus 1 mana crypt 1 mana vault 1 sol ring 1 trinisphere 1 duplicant 1 solemn simulacrum 4 goblin welder 4 crucible worlds 4 chalice void 4 uba mask 4 smokestack 4 tanglewire 3 null rod side 4 granite shard 3 jester cap 3 viashino heretic 3 orb of dreams (aka dreamball) 2 duplicant
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Unrestrict: Flash, Burning Wish Restore and restrict: Transmute Artifact, Abeyance, Mox Diamond, Lotus Vale, Scorched Ruins, Shahrazad Kill: Time Vault I say things http://unpopularideasclub.blogspot.com
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yespuhyren
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« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2006, 12:44:06 pm » |
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UbaStax beats IT. Sweet. At least now we have proof from an UbaStax veteran against an IT veteran. Its obviously not that favorable, or he would have had no problem. Good job Vroman.
One match that went to game three does not equal proof of how a match-up goes. I could win a match with Goblins against Oath, doesn't mean that it's proof that Goblins beats Oath constantly. The point is not that one match proves anything. The point is they claim that the matchup is absurdly in their favor. They should be winning this matchup no problem if that was the case.
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Team Blitzkrieg: The Vintage Lightning War. TK: Tinker saccing Mox. Jamison: Hard cast FoW. TK: Ha! Tricked you! I'm out of targets
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dicemanx
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« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2006, 01:00:12 pm » |
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UbaStax beats IT. Sweet. At least now we have proof from an UbaStax veteran against an IT veteran. Its obviously not that favorable, or he would have had no problem. Good job Vroman.
One match that went to game three does not equal proof of how a match-up goes. I could win a match with Goblins against Oath, doesn't mean that it's proof that Goblins beats Oath constantly. The point is not that one match proves anything. The point is they claim that the matchup is absurdly in their favor. They should be winning this matchup no problem if that was the case. Claims like that are exaggerations - if anyone can establish more than a 60-40 matchup against a top tier deck where both pilots are competent players, I'd be very surprised. Therefore, the best way to respond to outrageous claims is to ignore them - leave people to their own illusions, and prove them wrong at the next event instead. -I realize ppl have been winning w non nrod ubastax, but I respectfully disagree cutting nrod is the right move. if the meta is shifted to more resilient mana bases, nrod is like the last good mana denial left. Null Rod is amazing. The issue I have with it though is that it currently cuts off some monstrous bombs from the main deck - cards like Metalworker, Jester's Cap, Mindslaver, and Tormod's Crypt. If it wasn't for Cap's power in the current meta, I'd totally advocate Null Rod instead. -rishadan port tests surprisingly well. its almost a stripmine, and in some situations better, since I can turn off drain mana even if they have UUU open, by tapping during their turn, and then tapping again in my turn. Right on. This card might surprise a lot of people - I think it was too quickly dismissed. Drains are particularly difficult to play around beyond the Tangle Wires, and Ports just give added options in dealing with the threat of Drain. That Port can function effectively like a Sphere at times is an added bonus.
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ErkBek
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A strong play.
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« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2006, 03:27:25 pm » |
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You wrote a tournament report for this? I'm really surprised this really wasn't a tournament. Well, I'll start off by saying that the deck I ran wasn't really IT, it was a totally untested list (that I came up with there) with maindeck bobs. Kevin and Vroman watched me build it before the tourney since the list I brought was metagamed for drains (it was also 100% untested). However with the following meta breakdown I couldn't justify running it. 40% stax 20% oath 20% combo 20% aggro I started off the day getting crushed by Kevin (5C stax) with my drain meta'd IT list. I was already feeling quite frustrated since I was definitely showing some rust playing combo (I hadn't played a game with rituals since a week after Richmond). Upon hearing that only 5 people would be playing I decided to throw together something that may be better for the meta. Unfortunately, it wasn't. I played poorly for the day. I lost a game 3 to Kevin that I shouldn't have, after making multiple mistakes that quickly caught up to me. Then vs. Vroman I made what turned out to be a huge error of not dropping a mox on turn 1. I am very disappointed in how I played. I'm not counting this as a real tournament, so I'll ignore these loses on the Becker vs. Ogre matches which still currently stand at 12-3.  UbaStax beats IT. Sweet. At least now we have proof from an UbaStax veteran against an IT veteran. Its obviously not that favorable, or he would have had no problem. Good job Vroman.
Uba has changed a lot since I first started playing IT. I was 7-0 vs. null-rod uba stax in tourney play. Tangle wire is surprisingly very good vs. IT especially when combined with a chalice.
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Team GWS
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Evenpence
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« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2006, 04:51:41 pm » |
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Uba has changed a lot since I first started playing IT. I was 7-0 vs. null-rod uba stax in tourney play. Tangle wire is surprisingly very good vs. IT especially when combined with a chalice.
It IS surprising. I thought that the Game 2 and 3 matchups are definitely in IT's favor - but it's not. Thanks for the reasoning on siding in Shards, Vroman, that actually makes alot more sense. I don't know if I'm going to continue to side in G. Shards against IT. Claims like that are exaggerations - if anyone can establish more than a 60-40 matchup against a top tier deck where both pilots are competent players, I'd be very surprised. Therefore, the best way to respond to outrageous claims is to ignore them - leave people to their own illusions, and prove them wrong at the next event instead. Peter, virtually any player of Slaver has about an 80-20 matchup against any version of Ubastax. I might say it's more in their favor. The numbers are just absurd with my testing - even with Rich Shay's version which has the poorest matchup against Stax of any Slaver build - It's still probably 75-25 or 70-30. If I have Granite Shards in the side, it's at very best still 55-45 in Slaver's favor. Null Rod is amazing. The issue I have with it though is that it currently cuts off some monstrous bombs from the main deck - cards like Metalworker, Jester's Cap, Mindslaver, and Tormod's Crypt. If it wasn't for Cap's power in the current meta, I'd totally advocate Null Rod instead. I actually think Jester's Cap is starting to lose some effectiveness - especially with Friggorid (which the card is not amazing against, although it is good), and Slaver (which the card might as well be completely useless against unless you can activate two or recur it). Right on. This card might surprise a lot of people - I think it was too quickly dismissed. Drains are particularly difficult to play around beyond the Tangle Wires, and Ports just give added options in dealing with the threat of Drain. That Port can function effectively like a Sphere at times is an added bonus. I WILL have to test this. Until then, I'm still maintaining my view that Port is a horrible card. Who knows though, I might advocate 2-4 of them soon though. I guess it's really a card you need to test.
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[17:25] Desolutionist: i hope they reprint empty the warrens as a purple card in planar chaos
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AngryPheldagrif
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« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2006, 06:51:08 pm » |
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Claims like that are exaggerations - if anyone can establish more than a 60-40 matchup against a top tier deck where both pilots are competent players, I'd be very surprised. Therefore, the best way to respond to outrageous claims is to ignore them - leave people to their own illusions, and prove them wrong at the next event instead.
To be fair, I would wager Gilded Claw versus Stax at significantly lopsided (and I've beaten almost every major Stax player with it at one point or another), and my Oath list versus Shay Slaver is also at least 70/30 and that is being very generous to the Slaver player. I do get your point, though. I never saw Stax as getting crushed by IT and was always surprised to hear them talking about it.
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dicemanx
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« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2006, 07:18:31 pm » |
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I was motivated to say that primarily because builds are not static - they evolve and adapt. Perhaps the previous incarnations of UbaStax had very unfavorable match ups, and perhaps Oath really does severely beat up on Slaver, but the decks don't have to stand idly by and accept punishment. The second reason I was motivated to say that is because match up percentages are often highly exaggerated, so its gotten to the point where it's difficult to accept things at face value because you cannot trust results based on small sample sizes or lack of "robust" testing. Plus, playing broken, explosive decks has a dramatic effect on bridging match percentages - so long as you have very powerful cards and synergistic effects you can expect to win a fair amount of time regardless of the deck you are facing. I actually think Jester's Cap is starting to lose some effectiveness - especially with Friggorid (which the card is not amazing against, although it is good), and Slaver (which the card might as well be completely useless against unless you can activate two or recur it). Shop can run better options against CS and Meandeck Ichorid. For instance, Mindslaver is particularly devestating vs both, and both Cap and Mindslavers can be effectively supported with Metalworkers. Then there's the option of main deck Tormod's Crypts which also addresses both decks quite nicely, as well as a whole host of other archetypes. I'm pretty sure I have managed to find a Shop deck so far that does just as well vs the field and doesn't cede the matchups to Ichorid and CS, so I know that effective builds are possible. Vroman's list is a strong option too, but I wouldn't risk it in a meta like Rochester which you know will contain a fair bit of CS decks and the odd Ichorid deck. WGD also won't help matters, if any WGD decides to show up (and no, Dreamballs aren't very effective vs WGD, since that deck will have no qualms about drawing into the post SB games).
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Without cultural sanction, most or all our religious beliefs and rituals would fall into the domain of mental disturbance. ~John F. Schumaker
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yespuhyren
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« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2006, 07:30:07 pm » |
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Claims like that are exaggerations - if anyone can establish more than a 60-40 matchup against a top tier deck where both pilots are competent players, I'd be very surprised. Therefore, the best way to respond to outrageous claims is to ignore them - leave people to their own illusions, and prove them wrong at the next event instead. Peter, virtually any player of Slaver has about an 80-20 matchup against any version of Ubastax. I might say it's more in their favor. The numbers are just absurd with my testing - even with Rich Shay's version which has the poorest matchup against Stax of any Slaver build - It's still probably 75-25 or 70-30. If I have Granite Shards in the side, it's at very best still 55-45 in Slaver's favor. The difference between Me, you, and Vroman, is that we have all taken the deck in different directions. Vroman has maintained the old school UbaStax feel I'm not 100% sure what you are playing. But I have evolved the deck to be more of a reactive workshop deck. What are our worst matchups, theoretically? CS Ichorid Oath Confidant anything IT (So they say, I don't think so) So, to make the deck more able to handle those decks, I have been MAINDECKING 3 Tormod's Crypt 3 Granite Shard So I'm not sure exactly what my win ratio is against CS, but I know there is no way it is THAT huge with the modifications I have made.
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« Last Edit: May 22, 2006, 07:33:26 pm by yespuhyren »
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Team Blitzkrieg: The Vintage Lightning War. TK: Tinker saccing Mox. Jamison: Hard cast FoW. TK: Ha! Tricked you! I'm out of targets
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Evenpence
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« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2006, 07:38:15 pm » |
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It's funny how we're on the same team and you don't know what I'm playing. It's true though, I haven't been posting much about Ubastax recently. I really should.
Granite Shards are the best possible cards against Slaver, IMO. Maindeck T-Crypt is fine, but I don't know about 3 of them. I would definitely be of the 1 or 2 persuasion, probably siding with 2. I've actually never maindecked T-Crypt.
I haven't been getting rocked by Slaver recently either with some serious changes, but it's still an unfavorable matchup. I don't like MDGranite Shard, even though I've used it in the past because while it severely hampers a bunch of decks, it does nothing against other ones. It's really hit or miss. Good thing we have Bazaar.
I will say, however, that your deck does make bad matchups a TON better. You've definitely taken the deck in the right direction as of late, particularly with your latest lists.
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[17:25] Desolutionist: i hope they reprint empty the warrens as a purple card in planar chaos
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yespuhyren
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« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2006, 07:45:09 pm » |
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Thanks. As much as this deck could pack the brokenness, I have been striving for consistancy. I believe that 3/3 for Shards/Crypts is the best right now.
Shards - Confidant, Spririt Tokens, Welders, Shamans, Kataki/Fish, Ichorid/Ghoul
Thats why they are MD. They hurt every deck but Combo/Gifts.
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Team Blitzkrieg: The Vintage Lightning War. TK: Tinker saccing Mox. Jamison: Hard cast FoW. TK: Ha! Tricked you! I'm out of targets
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Tha Gunslinga
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De-Errata Mystical Tutor!
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« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2006, 08:01:46 pm » |
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Mindslaver seems like an awful lot of mana, though. Isn't the 4-mana activation cost going to make it unusable a lot of the time?
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Don't tolerate splittin'
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yespuhyren
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2006, 08:03:32 pm » |
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My claims have been that most of the time it is. Colby loves it, however.
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Team Blitzkrieg: The Vintage Lightning War. TK: Tinker saccing Mox. Jamison: Hard cast FoW. TK: Ha! Tricked you! I'm out of targets
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Auracon
Basic User
 
Posts: 31
Silence is golden.
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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2006, 08:40:19 pm » |
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@ vroman; thanks for the report. Its always nice to see games from the other side. But I'm a bit surprised you posted it since the tournament was so small.
On my part I ran a list very similar to AngryPheldagrif's ICBM oath without maindeck pithing needle (kept these in the sideboard) and with a null and duress, as well as some major sideboard changes since there were no fish to be seen that day. The deck beat goblins, but I couldn't get hack stax or combo (a combination of bad luck and minor play mistakes made the matches a bit lopsided at times).
As for mindslaver; it seems to be a bit expensive and inefficient much of the time. Wouldn't just another cap be more effective and online much faster in stax (as well as equally broken if resolved against many decks)?
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Evenpence
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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2006, 11:19:42 pm » |
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Mindslaver is absurd. The deck has performed better than it ever has for me with singleton Mindslaver in the deck. It's a random I-Win factor. I want to go up to 2, but doubt I'll do so, because I never want the card in my opening hand...ever.
The caps are there for early game, I.E., you want many multiples of them, either 3-4. Slaver is there for mid and late game, in case you're losing (as that's the only reason it would reliably go to the mid or late game...usually). Slaver solves that problem like no other card.
That's my entire philosophy behind singleton Slaver, and it's been right every single time.
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[17:25] Desolutionist: i hope they reprint empty the warrens as a purple card in planar chaos
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yespuhyren
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« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2006, 07:10:22 am » |
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If it is that good, I can replace the 1x Memory Jar in my list, and I would honestly feel that my list is complete.
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Team Blitzkrieg: The Vintage Lightning War. TK: Tinker saccing Mox. Jamison: Hard cast FoW. TK: Ha! Tricked you! I'm out of targets
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Hydra
Full Members
Basic User
  
Posts: 168
The Andy Probasco of Vint... Hey wait a second!
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« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2006, 10:20:51 am » |
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If it is that good, I can replace the 1x Memory Jar in my list, and I would honestly feel that my list is complete.
That's the same philosophy that's put more standard Stax lists in their current ruts. Being "complete" or "optimal" automatically makes you easier to metagame against, since you're not changing anything.
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"You know, Chuck Norris may be able to roundhouse kick an entire planet to death, but only Jerry Orbach could stand over its corpse and make a one-liner."
Team Reflection: Jesus Approved!
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Evenpence
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« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2006, 12:45:57 pm » |
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That's the same philosophy that's put more standard Stax lists in their current ruts. Being "complete" or "optimal" automatically makes you easier to metagame against, since you're not changing anything.
Not really. Most decks don't change that much. For instance, most people outside of really good players, don't metagame Slaver correctly (I.E., why so many good players did well with Slaver at Richmond). Slaver doesn't need to be metagamed to beat Stax anyway, it already does. Decks like IT don't change that much at all since the maindeck is so needed with nearly everything. You can go up on a force or down on a force, you can run more combo pieces like Twister and Tinker/Jar, or even Tinker/Colossus (which WOULD be tech), or that kind of thing. Decks adapted to beat old school Ubastax and they've STAYED THERE, which is why I was able to do so well at Richmond, and why I went undefeated (albeit with an enormous amount of draws, primarily because my opponent's played slow) at Blue Bell. Until we get some definitive new list that wins an enormous amount, decks will stay constant on how to beat Stax - Maindeck Bounce, Arifact Destruction, Tinker/Colossus, and opposing Welders. Once we figure out how to supercede those ways of beating Ubastax, decks will evolve to beat this new line of Ubastax, and we will have our cycle. However, as is, everything is still metagamed to beat Old School Ubastax with Rods. Nothing has changed since Richmond for the most part.
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[17:25] Desolutionist: i hope they reprint empty the warrens as a purple card in planar chaos
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Lunar
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« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2006, 05:57:41 pm » |
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Sorry for the small turnout...Regionals seemed to have killed the last Eudemonia out here in Cali too (although E was on sunday) They were only able to pull in 12 players (usually average 30...)
Anyways man, thanks for the report even with the reduced turnout.
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Dozer - "TMD is not a place where everyone can just post what was revealed to them in their latest wet dream"
Webster - "most of the deck is pimped, like my insane shirt, which exudes a level of pimpness only to be expressed as sublime."
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yespuhyren
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« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2006, 11:30:45 am » |
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If it is that good, I can replace the 1x Memory Jar in my list, and I would honestly feel that my list is complete.
That's the same philosophy that's put more standard Stax lists in their current ruts. Being "complete" or "optimal" automatically makes you easier to metagame against, since you're not changing anything. Yeah, this isn't a permanent thing. The list feels complete and optimal for the current metagame. If people start hating my maindeck Caps, and make it useless to run MD TCrypts/Shards, then the list will need changing, just like it did when I put them in. It is only optimal for a while, and I always change the deck.
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Team Blitzkrieg: The Vintage Lightning War. TK: Tinker saccing Mox. Jamison: Hard cast FoW. TK: Ha! Tricked you! I'm out of targets
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