What every UG control player wants

[Bum_of_keld]

Alright, again with the name problems, but something reflecting a search for new land that may or may not succeed, may be another exploration of some variety but here goes

-Cardname-

UG1

Instant

Draw two cards, then reveal a card. If it is a land put it into play tapped (untapped?). If not put it into you graveyard.

Flavor text reflecting on even if a search is unsuccessful in finding its objective, it still produces

I'm really hung up on trying to break the land drop curve, as a deck designer of wacky engine multi color beasts all my decks are mana starved and need to protect themselves with counters. I think it is time that slower more real control based deck gets its own 3cc amusingness. What do you guys think, if i saw this coming out in the new set i know i would be super excited!

[asmoranomardicodais]

According to Wizard's policy on card drawing, this needs to be a Sorcery, which would make it comparable to Counsel of the Soratami. I think it would probably be fair like that.

[Bum_of_keld]

Which policy exactly? I know they are hating on blue, but they also are beefing up green, so maybe we could use that kind of fuzzy logic and just run with it. I know a card like this feels like it should be a sorcery because of its effect, but I'm sure there is some sort of precedent for this that was not in the realm of playable, anyone? The card would lose so much functionality as a 3cc sorcery, in fact it would become nearly useless. Trying to avoid that if at all possible

[AJFirst]

I like the idea for the card, and it would surely make UG Agro/Control even more insane, but it's just too powerful as printed. It's instant speed card draw, which wizards has said would almost always be a sorcery, or extremely expensive from here on out, becasue that's what makes blue insane. Being able to net card advantage, see new cards, and keep mana open for countermagic/bounce on their turn is too good. Eventually a control player will have to play a draw spell and leave themselves short on other resources on the board, and that's why Fact or Fiction is too good.

This would allow a player to represent Voidslime/Hinder/Mana Leak on turn 3, and then draw cards (and possibly accelerate mana and/or mill a card (dredge?....threshold?)), which is just too good on a multitude of levels, not to mention WotC has specifically stated spells drawing 2 or more cards will be sorceries.

[Bum_of_keld]

Well, i have to say that is a major dissapointment, but I'm not so sure that WOTC will be inclined to follow there own policy. But yeah this card is probably too powerfull as written, but could the cost be bumped up to UG2 and maintain it as is. It still would be powerfull enough for standard and type two, think of it as the "better" inspiration which I'm sure no one has a problem with power wise. Once you reach 4 mana status we are talking about a midgame card, and this is not fact or fiction people.

I'm quite aware of the reason blue control works, do you think this card just happens to fit it like a glove? But it MAY have some power issues at it's speed, but at four we are talking about a stage in the game where one of three things is happening.
a. You are trying to restock and find an answer to a threat that slipped through in an aggro matchup.
b. You are in the development phase where you and your opponent are both playing for the late game.
c. Or you are in the tense stage against a midgame powerhouse where it lets bombs and some disruption loose on you.

Against A. this is not great, two new cards and a land drop which at this point you may or may not actually be able to utilize? its good but not broken.

Against B. this is a bomb, especially because in blue matchups he who has the most land available usually is winning.

Against C this is OK, if you get a window it sort of helps, if you don't its bleh.

At turn four this is only partly likely to give you a single card advantage and isn't likely to really "break" your curve unless your playing some sort of engine like LFTL. I am not 100% convinced this is too strong for a 3cc but i do know they are hating on blue and the combo of efficient counters and instant speed draw. But i am willing to concede the point to RnD, blue appears to still be alive despite the huge hit defying all odds so maybe they do have a point.

Lets look at this for instant UG2 or sorcery UG1, sound off people.

[parallax]

Where is the card revealed from?

Counsel of the Soratami and Rampant Growth are both Sorceries. Why should this be an Instant? Inspiration was removed from the base set in favor of Counsel of the Soratami. That should demonstrate WotC's view of Sorcery-speed card drawing. MaRo stated quite clearly: all cards that draw two or more cards are Sorceries. Please read http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr228 He links to two other articles on Instants and Sorceries.
From MaRo:
When card drawing appeared on instants, the blue player had no hard decisions. Hold a counterspell until the end of your opponent's turn. If he or she hasn't played a scary card that turn (requiring the counterspell), draw some cards. Once again, the instant version is more powerful but less interesting strategically.
I'm sure a number of blue mages are groaning at the last paragraph. You preferred power over strategic interest. Of course you do. It's the player's prerogative to have as much power as possible. You want to win. But, you see, R&D has a very different perspective. We're not shaded by a desire to win. Our motivation is making the best gameplay possible. To do that, we have to often make you do things you might not choose to do yourself. We, on purpose, have to make your game experience harder. We have to force you to make decisions and then live by those decisions.

[Bum_of_keld]

Allright i concede instant status entirely, and pretty much all interest in the idea of using this card someday, but i can't argue with the facts, this thing would never get printed as an instant. Is everyone ok at UG1 as a sorcery?

UG1
sorcery
Draw two cards, then reveal a card from your hand. If it is a land put it into play tapped. If not, put it into you graveyard.

[jro]

UG1
sorcery
Draw two cards, then reveal a card from your hand. If it is a land put it into play tapped. If not, put it into you graveyard.

How about just "put that land into play"?  This card is so bad if you don't have a land in hand that the improvement is warranted.  And it becomes much more playable, since you can cast it turn 4 (say) and still leave mana up for a 2cc counterspell.  At best, the version I suggest says something like "UG1: Draw two cards, then put a land into play," which is very good, but balances the times this says "UG1: Draw two, then discard 1." And I'd word it like:
Draw two cards.  You may put a land card from your hand into play.  If you don't, discard a card.
(Trying to make it work with "may" using the "reveal" wording you had just didn't seem to work.)  This makes it so you can avoid screwing yourself if the land is a duplicate Legendary land, or you have some other reason not to play the land (for example, it's a Karoo land). 

[Matt]

You guys do realize that this wording doesn't say that the land you play has to be one of the two cards you drew, right?

[Marco]

This reminds me somewhat of a card I created (and I don't think it was added to the master list):

Druid's Chant
2G
Sorcery
Reveal the top two cards of your library. Put into play tapped all land cards revealed this way and all other cards revealed this way into your graveyard.
Then add GGG to your mana pool.

[jro]

You guys do realize that this wording doesn't say that the land you play has to be one of the two cards you drew, right?

So?  Does that make it too powerful?  Most decks are like 50/50 to see at least 1 land in 2 cards.  If the land had to be in one of the new cards, this would say "UG1: Draw 2, then discard 1 of those" 50% of the time, which is just terrible.  Remember that the "acceleration" aspect of it is conditional: you only get a benefit from it if you have already played a land that turn, otherwise you'd just play the land you drew as your land for the turn.  So if those situations come up, say, half the time you drew the card, then this card would be better than Counsel of the Soratami only 25% of the time.  Compare that to a modern fair draw spell like Compulsive Research.  Your chances of not drawing a land off the CR are 30%.  Let's just assume that you don't want to discard any other lands besides those you might have drawn.  Given that, Compulsive Research is better than Counsel something like 70% of the time.  That makes this spell significantly worse than Compulsive Research if you had to draw the land off the spell.  Worded as is, it's still only better than Counsel 1) When you have a land in hand and 2) you've already played your land for the turn.

[Matt]

My point is that it's REALLY easy to just have a land in hand, especially on turn three. This is only going to be discarding like 5% of the time.

[jro]

My point is that it's REALLY easy to just have a land in hand, especially on turn three. This is only going to be discarding like 5% of the time.

That is true, but even if it goes off right, I don't think the effect is especially powerful, given that the card requires 3 mana in play and 2 colors.  And the effect doesn't really lend itself to degeneracy, unlike many other accelerants (ex. 2x Dark Ritual).

[Bum_of_keld]

Worded as is, it's still only better than Counsel 1) When you have a land in hand and 2) you've already played your land for the turn.

Which is why this was intended to be an insant. It had the utility to be decent to pretty good at times but never something like fact or fiction, so at sorcery speed this card is never going to be powerfull enough to lose hinder mana or whatever garbage they print next. Are we still certain that this can not be printed at instant speed? And if not, we should probably make this a "you may then put a land from your handinto play tapped" and remove its ability to ditch non lands etc. As a sorcery it probably deserves the land drop as an added benefit at the 3cc instaid of a drawback.

So

UG1
sorcery
Draw two cards. You may put a land from your hand into play tapped.

[zeus-online]

I think wizards would up the cost to 4 mana or something....! its both a mana boost and a card drawer, which is pretty good!

/Zeus