GGifffs..

[EotGiftsGG?]

hey everyone.  And without futher a due, and by popular demand,  the New GGifts list, that took SCG Charlotte.


GGiffffs

4 force of will
4 mna drain
4 Brainstorm
4 Gifts
3 Merchant Scroll
2 MisDirection
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Repeal
1 Demonic tutor
1 mystical
1 VAmp
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild
1 Tendrils
1 Tinker
1 Darksteel Man
1 Yawg Win
1 Recoup
1 ReB
1 Lava Dart
5 moxes
1 lotus
1 petal
1 crypt
1 sol ring
1 mvault
5 fetches
2 seas
2 volcs
3 island (1 sno covered) = )
1 torarian school
1 Library

The Board

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Reb
1 Pyroblast
1 pyro clasm
1 Rushing River
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Lava dart
1 Deep Anal
2 Tormod's crypt



The List comes from my friend travis. I took his list on the 14 hour car ride down and modified it a little bit. its a blend between our repeal lists and MD gifts, but i couldnt find thirst for knowlege, so i went to the fourth gifts and a third merchant scroll. And Yes, it is 61 cards and there is a maindeck REB. Thats how i roll = )


I'd Write a tournament Report, but im lazy and i dont remember all the details, beside me pwning mad n00bs. And for the record, i didnt play any scrubby and mono-colored aggro  decks. (scrubs maybe, but every deck was either netted or a team creation *cough*(icbm)*cough*)

With two top 8's and a win, i think the list speaks for itself. (it woulda been two, but dan carp is so savage at making me mull to five game three =P)

enjoy


The GG's

[Hatchman]

Travis LaPlante invented being cool

[Shaman]

This list is obviously (?) missing some cards like Demonic Tutor...

[tehmajickguy]

The list is missing 4 or 5 cards, obviously some of which are Ancestral, Time Walk, and DT.

@ Nate: Whats your opinion on the deck without running Thirst? Did you miss it any point, or did you feel that you didn't need it?

[Smmenen]

WTF?  That's not gg gifts, that's meandeck gifts.   http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27994.0

It has 4 gifts, 3+ scrolls, and Misdirections.  aside from a few meta tweaks, the only change is moving the tendrils main instead of burning wish. 

i'm dissapointed that ggs is taking a deck i created and claiming it as their own.

The only substantive diference is the addition of skeletal scrying, which is far inferior to the fourth merchant scroll anyway.  And repeal should not be in meandeck gifts - esp. not over hurkyl's. 

[Disburden]

I'm not on team Meandeck, nor do I side with them over anyone else because of their Team name and players, but I agree with Menendian here. I was thinking this would be a new Gifts list, possibly with three repeals like I've heard. This is just Meandeck's version with about three slots changed.

I guess this proves the point that MDG is truely a good deck and can win in today's metagame. What kind of changes that were made would make this not Meandeck's version? Skeletal Scrying and meandeck Tendrils? Is that all? This list even has the most recent Change to MDG which was CHain of Vapor main over E truth.

What do you set Chalice in the board to most often?

[Vegeta2711]

WTF?  That's not gg gifts, that's meandeck gifts.   http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27994.0

It has 4 gifts, 3+ scrolls, and Misdirections.  aside from a few meta tweaks, the only change is moving the tendrils main instead of burning wish. 

i'm dissapointed that ggs is taking a deck i created and claiming it as their own.

The only substantive diference is the addition of skeletal scrying, which is far inferior to the fourth merchant scroll anyway.  And repeal should not be in meandeck gifts - esp. not over hurkyl's. 

I added Brainstorm, hence I made a new deck.

In all seriousness, before this becomes a naming argument, I suggest taking this to PM's if you have an issue with the names.
1. Who cares? In every other format, nobody names decks after themselves / team (unless your flores). And though I know it's like a pet thing of Vintage to try and differentiate decks, I'm still going with general naming conventions > pet names.
2. Seriously, who cares?

My only question is why not Strip Mine in the maindeck? Lack of space or just didn't want to offset the blue mana count even more?

[Smmenen]

because a deck i created is being presented as a new deck. 

EDIT:

The more important reason though is that my deck gets zero respect in the NE where Brassman and his team played only thier list.  My decklist never got its due respect. 

Now my list is being appropriated and repackaged as a new deck.  That's just BS. 

[LordHomerCat]

Steve, at least you can be happy that they someone else realized how powerful your deck was, and decided it was the way to build Gifts?

So, have you decided you like Merchant Scrolls and MisD's over Thirst now?  That seems like a pretty big deal, after months of claiming Thirst was the better engine.  Does Brassman have a take on this that he'd like to share, or was he not involved with this particular build?  I seem to recall him being a huge proponent of Thirst.

[LotusHead]

because a deck i created is being presented as a new deck. 

EDIT:

The more important reason though is that my deck gets zero respect in the NE where Brassman and his team played only thier list.  My decklist never got its due respect. 

Now my list is being appropriated and repackaged as a new deck.  That's just BS. 

You tell 'em!

LotusHead: Creator of SlapJack and SlapJack2k6 aka Bomberman.

[froz3nn]

Steve, at least you can be happy that they someone else realized how powerful your deck was, and decided it was the way to build Gifts?

So, have you decided you like Merchant Scrolls and MisD's over Thirst now?  That seems like a pretty big deal, after months of claiming Thirst was the better engine.  Does Brassman have a take on this that he'd like to share, or was he not involved with this particular build?  I seem to recall him being a huge proponent of Thirst.

i though he was always against the thirst engine.

[Smmenen]

Steve, at least you can be happy that they someone else realized how powerful your deck was, and decided it was the way to build Gifts?

So, have you decided you like Merchant Scrolls and MisD's over Thirst now?  That seems like a pretty big deal, after months of claiming Thirst was the better engine.  Does Brassman have a take on this that he'd like to share, or was he not involved with this particular build?  I seem to recall him being a huge proponent of Thirst.

\


seriously, do you remember this thread???

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27985.0

[Kowal]

Enough.  Discuss the deck, not its title.  Further off-topic arguments will be subject to moderation.[/color]

[Smmenen]

Ok, first of all 61 card is, well, not good./

Secondly, not having 4 Merchant Scrolls is a serious error.   I've written about this at length elsewhere.  The marginal utility of mutliple Scrolls is very high. 

Thirdly, Skeletal scrying is weak. T he most powerful  card in the deck is yawg will and you'll often want to use minmal cards like fetch and brainstorm.  The only utility to scrying is gifting for it, and that is still wrong.  If you want another gifts target, take the Randy Buehler route and play with one IMpulse.

Fourth, repeal is inferior to Hurkyl's recall, which probably must be in this deck.  Repeal is a great card, just not in this deck imo. 

FInally, meandeck gifts originally tested with Tendrils main and its wrong.  It's wrong for lots of reasons, most importantly that sometimes you want to play Yawg will twice.

For instance, in a vintage champ prelim tournament i won with meandeck gifts, my opening play was:

Turn One:
Land, Ancestral.

Turn two:

Lotus, Yawg Will.  Ancestral.

Several turns later I B Wished for Yawg Will and time walked twice after tinkering. 

I've written at length about meandeck gifts, since you seem interested in playing that, why don't you read my primers?

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/10315.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/9963.html

[The Chosen One]

I have recently picked up and started playing meandeck gifts (desdigned primarily on the list smmenen has here on TMD)

Playing on MWS has caused me concern and joy at the same time. There are several times when mulling to 5 is necessary in order to keep any time of control grip in the early game. I mull imo too often, either no land, or no solid cards. But in real life the deck treats me better. All in all i have to agree with Steve that this is one of the better control decks in vintage.

[EotGiftsGG?]

"The more important reason though is that my deck gets zero respect in the NE where Brassman and his team played only thier list.  My decklist never got its due respect."


No comment about the NE and our hating of the MDg list, but it comes down to our list being better against shop and OUR META. The two lists are for two different metas, and i doubt homefield advantage has ANYTHING to do with it.

Steve, i NEVER meant to Rip off your list. If you checked Teh GG Boards, you'd know that we were working on a list with repeals and Something Similarly close.
The only main diffference was the add of one more merchant scroll and the fourth gifts. THe Meta cards were our own and for the record Scrying is the shiznit. Bwish is for the birds and id like to add my most sincere apologies. If you ask ANYONE that knows me they'll tell you i NEVER play without 61. My play preference. Skeletal Scrying is Good. Maybe you as a player like to stall the game and win with a single will, but i'm a MUCH faster player and like to win fast. I won a game this weekend by scrying after a tinker while staring down a welder, removing my artifacts. It cant be responded to, and draws you cards you need. Earyly game, gifting for Scroll, Scrying, mystical, and another Gifts gives you enough gas to win in two turns. Repeal is Also pro. Our New tech? It give so you so much tempo, and hurky's doesnt bounce back certain cards such as Planar void or pyrostatic pillar. Having four merchant scrolls maybe right for your meta and your playstyle preference, but i like to find recall and be done with. Drawing two off a recall you just scrolled for probably isnt going to win you the game. Bwish is too slow against decks like stax and grim long. Sure its AWESOME against control, but YOU KNOW there are certain games were you could have won a turn or two earlier if you didnt have to pay the extra 1R.

BrassMan Had TFK's day one and i cut the gush and something else for two scrolls, and then added the third after talking to travis. Having ancestral in hand turn one EVERYGAME is pretty house, but there were definitely times where TFK would win games. Im not going to start another war on the case for thirst for knowledge in gifts.


Chalice was the hottness, and was a pretty good add. For the most part, against Glong, it hits for 0-1 and against ICBM oath, a chal at two is ALmost GG.

[froz3nn]

your deck is still 59 cards if i counted correctly, which would explain the absence of ancestrall recall and timewalk.

[StarOrc]

but i couldnt find thirst for knowlege, so i went to the fourth gifts and a third merchant scroll.

Anyone questioning the lack of Thirst for knowledge should probably learn to read. Its very frustrating for people to not read the full post then decide to comment on it.

Also not that I care much about it but I'm curious as to how many cards it would need to be different for it to be a different deck. An example would be this deck with 2 Scrolls 3 Gifts and 2 Thirsts.

Star

[nataz]

The List comes from my friend travis.

Wasn't Travis' list based off MDGifts ? =P

meh, its no big secret to the people I test with that I've though MisD and Scroll were pretty hott for a while now. The only reason I'm not (or rather have not) playing MDGifts was my minor infatuation with Ichoird.

Puppy Love is over and now its back to real decks.

I really do L.ove merchant scroll in the deck because it lets me play way more aggressively then I normally can with TFK. I like dictating the pace of the game early on (i.e., turn 2), especially in any kind of control mirror where I can shape my hand as opposed to just raw-dogging cards off the top. Plus not discarding mana sources makes it easier to count to ten.

The only thing I never really liked was the R+BB in the wish->Tendrils plan against something like fish (or god forbid SS), but thats why god created Tinker I suppose. Yay for a decrease in the amount of STP and UW fishies. 

Whatever you wanna call it, good job "EotGiftsGG?", props for the wining and what not. 

[BreathWeapon]

Just curious why you dropped Fact or Fiction? I've wanted the card out of the deck for awhile, but I've been too chicken shit to cut it; I thought it was essential for Gift's piles. I'd rather have the fourth Misdirection, no Stax and all combo is running Force of Will MD or SB, or Vampiric Tutor. Any thoughts?

[EotGiftsGG?]

well, first off, the list never had Fof. (i cant speak for the Md list).
It's not very good seeing how it costs four mana and most of the time, 3U should win the game EOTFOFYL is now EOTGIFTSGG? I guess id cut the slot for vamp tutor which finds the card you want, instead of finding five cards and getting three that are mediocre. I wouldnt play more than two mis-d's, but in the end the ENTIRE list comes down to play preference and style. If your meta is like which you described a third Mis-Direction might be really pro-style.


"Whatever you wanna call it, good job "EotGiftsGG?", props for the wining and what not." 

thanks ;P

[AJFirst]

As far as I know, FoF has been out of...everything for a while. I don't know about Meandeck, but Gifts hasn't been playing it for a while, and Shay's the only one that still packs it in Slaver. Four mana is just too much to pay without winning the game nowadays.
-AJ

[Whatever Works]

This deck is obviously meandeck gifts. Nate knows this and even reffered to it as such several times in the car ride to/from charlette. Why this matters so much to people I dont really know or care.

As for the deck I dislike that he switched to 61 cards day 2. That was probably a mistake. Lava Dart is an absolute house in this deck. It raises storm count for tendrils or takes out the ever popular dark confidant! It was the clear deck MVP most of the games we played.

Scrying was meant to be a late game draw card that was meant to break open control mirrors similar to 4cc accept without sucking. The other great thing about the card was its ability to remove artifacts from the graveyard in responce to welder activations targeting DSC... This play won multiple games for me and likely nate as well.

4th Merchant scroll was cut because there were less blue targets because of the inclussion of Scrying/Lava Dart. If this is a mistake or not I am not 100% sure. I found that the lost versatility from the 4th scroll was made up by the 2 new inclussions. Is this list optimal? No. However, it was well metagamed from a fairly mediocre at best charlotte meta.

Kyle L.

[The Atog Lord]

Shay's the only one that still packs it in Slaver

My most recent Slaver lists haven't had Fact or Fiction either. For a few months, Memory Jar has just replaced it.

[dicemanx]

The only substantive diference is the addition of skeletal scrying, which is far inferior to the fourth merchant scroll anyway.

It's strange how we have such radically different assessments of this card in control decks. Scrying to me effectively functions as a second Yawgmoth's Will a lot of the time mid-late game, with the ability to generate decent card advantage in the early game. Perhaps there's something I'm missing about Meandeck Gifts (does it adhere to some rule that it is not allowed to run good card drawing?), but it "feels right" to run Scrying in just about every control deck that can support B.

[Smmenen]

I run fact in meandeck gifts.

I think fact is broken and deserves a spot.  It is particularly good in the control mirror and a great card to put into a gifts pile in certain circumstances.  Fact has great synergy with will and with the other components of the deck as well. 

I just don't think Scrying is that great. 

[Whatever Works]

I just don't think Scrying is that great. 

I agree. If Scrying was still great people would still be playing 4cc. Or at least a deck thats draw engine was based on control style of play that resolved larged scryings to gain huge late game tempo/control similar to 4cc. However, this hasnt happened and the cards speed/strength is probably the best explanation why.

[CrashTest]

Scrying is not so bad in Gifts - you can generate some decent draws in the mid-game.

      Scrying in Slaver is probably not so good though, since the 4th TFK is much better since you want big artifacts in your graveyard due to Welder, and not removed from the game.

           

[Hatchman]

Skeletal scrying is a bomb, and often just wins games in control mirrors. Late game its almost better or often time is better than Ancestral, and swings card advantage with an extra five or six cards in hand. GG. I kept wishing i had a scruing in hand almost every time the game went past turn four.

[seer]

Running Scrying gets around one of hte fundamental problems that MDGifts had -- if your ancestral gets countered/duressed you pretty much lose.


That being said, I would still run fact or fiction in addition to scrying. Having it in there makes your gifts possibilities much stronger when you do something like play a turn2 gifts off mana vault (with little other acceleration).


I also concur with steve that a single repeal probably isn't going to fix many problems. This deck has a deficincy in that it can't deal with chalice for one, which could be a problem when trying to "go off".

I guess you can still win with chalice in one in play though.