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Juggernaut GO
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« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2006, 07:06:06 pm » |
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I will be laughing so hard when all the scrubs go out and buy time vaults again, and when they do the next B/R announcement Time vault gets banned in vintage in legacy.
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Rand Paul is a stupid fuck, just like his daddy. Let's go buy some gold!!!
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Titanium Dragon
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« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2006, 08:40:22 pm » |
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To everyone who said that my articles were a waste of time falling on deaf ears....I think not. IF this was coming, then they wouldn't have errated time vault in the last cycle the way they did. I think I said you were wrong and that they should have it remain errataed, rather than saying it fell on deaf ears. He did, after all, write a couple responses, did he not? However, it is also possible that you had nothing to do with this, as they had said even beforehand that they were going through and making stuff match with the cards' text. That being said, I think it is likely that the hubbub over Time Vault may have caused it. Of course, it may have been a carefully calculated move, too, or part of a larger process. But regardless, if you did have an impact, good job. I wonder if my old Basalt Monolith will be worth something now? It is also possible that Time Vault was the first of this line, and that they errataed it to see the reception; it is possible they were planning on errataing the rest as well after they saw its reception, but after all the bitching decided to errata it yet again to quell it. We'll see how the new errata reads; I suspect WotC won't tell us. As an aside, Unlimited Time Vault is $100 right now on StarCityGames; was it that last week? Kinda surprising that they didn't mention Waylay, then. Maybe that falls into "6th edition rules change" errata, like Lotus Vale. Debt of Loyalty becomes a whole lot better (especially in legacy) if they remove the errata. I suspect that Lotus Vale, Waylay, and Debt of Loyalty will all retain their errata because they were errataed due to the change to 6th edition rules. I could be wrong, though, but they didn't list any cards which would be affected, and [CARD]Goblin Snowman[/CARD] would not make the list over [CARD]Waylay[/CARD] unless they were being cagey about it for some reason. I will be laughing so hard when all the scrubs go out and buy time vaults again, and when they do the next B/R announcement Time vault gets banned in vintage in legacy. I do wonder how many people got rid of theirs. |
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Harkius
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« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2006, 12:14:35 am » |
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Smmenen for the win!
Seriously, though, I think that this is a good sign. Wizards may not listen to single users, regardless of who they are, but they certainly seem to listen to enough of us if we make good, sound arguments about the insanity of some of their policies. Hopefully, this will signal the dawn of a new day, where the players and the management can learn to appreciate and understand one another. Or, alternatively, we can all act like children still.
Harkius
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Three essential tools for posting on the forums: Spell Check, Preview, and Your Brain. Use Them!
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LotusHead
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Team Vacaville
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« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2006, 02:08:59 am » |
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MTG Inc still hasn't addressed the issue of "Advanced Notice" on erratta/VirtualBannings. (I am assuming that most changes won't be virtual bannings, but I don't know what was up with Intuition)
Many of us wouldn't have been super-hurt over Time Vault, given, say, a month's worth of advance notice (to pick apart details). An "Unfair" banning (like in Trinisphere, which most of us are glad to see as singletons nowadays) had at least that 3 week transition period of taking that broken deck for one last spin.
This is Sunday Night. Changes go into effect tomorrow. Whoa!!!
Still, happy MTG listens to TMD.COMmunity.
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gotinput
Basic User
Posts: 24
US govt calls its IT guys weapon sys maintainers!
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« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2006, 03:22:43 am » |
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Now we only hope that Wizards will stick to the saying (T1 can handle it) before going on a banning spree.
Will Tog make a comeback with the restoration of Zodiac Dragon?!?
I think ZD would likely be banned in legacy due to the insane brokenness w/survival.
1:15pm GMT Oracle wordings not yet updated... Coldsnap cards are there... WOTC I'm waiting!
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« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 08:10:05 am by gotinput »
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UK Vintage: demonic tutoring up a Kobold FTW!
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CF
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« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2006, 08:25:01 am » |
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I see people talking as if actual updates have been posted somewhere.. I can't find anything. Is this a case of me being blind or people talking ahead of themselves?
--
Chris
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Tha Gunslinga
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De-Errata Mystical Tutor!
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« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2006, 08:48:30 am » |
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There's nothing new up.
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Don't tolerate splittin'
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AmbivalentDuck
Tournament Organizers
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Posts: 2807
Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2006, 09:01:15 am » |
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Yes, you have to switch explicitly to the Oracle view. Time Vault apparently stayed the same (I can't see any changes from the non-comboable wording).
My gripe is that Oath of Druids didn't change. The card says target. There was NO reason to remove that.
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sean1i0
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« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2006, 09:41:11 am » |
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Actually, I don't think that the updates are up yet, because I've yet to find a card that has changed. I've checked Time Vault, Great Whale, Palinchron, Karmic Guide, etc. and none of them are any different than they were before; the thing is I never remember Wizards waiting this late in the day to make the updates. I'm continuing to check on oracle though.
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2006, 04:09:43 pm » |
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Now we only hope that Wizards will stick to the saying (T1 can handle it) before going on a banning spree.
Will Tog make a comeback with the restoration of Zodiac Dragon?!?
I think ZD would likely be banned in legacy due to the insane brokenness w/survival.
1:15pm GMT Oracle wordings not yet updated... Coldsnap cards are there... WOTC I'm waiting!
S turn 3 win with one of these things in hand would be amazing in Psychatog. I imagine in order to keep this card sane, they'd have to give some sort of Squee like restriction, or it would be over powering cards like Wild Mongrel and Zombie Infestation *shudder* If it becomes an 8/8 Squee, then traditional Dragon builds are going to be good again in Vintage and the applications in Legacy are amazing. Otherwise, that shit is going to get banned so fast from Legacy and is arguably going to be banned in Vintage. The card's already more expensive than Grim Tutor or Imperial Seal, I don't even want to think about how expensive they'll be after they post the errata. This is definately "the" card to keep our eye on. |
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Marco
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« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2006, 05:12:27 pm » |
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My gripe is that Oath of Druids didn't change. The card says target. There was NO reason to remove that.
I agree! Oath of Druids would be easier to hose with the original wording... |
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pyr0ma5ta
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More cowbell
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« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2006, 07:00:04 pm » |
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My gripe is that Oath of Druids didn't change. The card says target. There was NO reason to remove that.
I agree! Oath of Druids would be easier to hose with the original wording... True Believer anyone? |
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Team Mishra's Jerkshop: Mess with the best, die like the rest.
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Polynomial P
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Your powerpill has worn off.
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« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2006, 07:11:58 pm » |
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New Wording for Time Vault:
Time Vault comes into play tapped.
If Time Vault would become untapped, instead choose one - untap Time Vault and you skip your next turn; or Time Vault remains tapped.
Tap: Take an extra turn after this one.
Edit: Looks like all the oracle wordings have been updated. There is no change to Zodiac Dragon or Oath of Druids.
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« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 07:19:44 pm by Polynomial P »
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Team Ogre
"They can also win if you play the deck like you can't read and are partially retarded." -BC
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Matt
Post like a butterfly, Mod like a bee.
Adepts
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Posts: 2297
King of the Jews!
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« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2006, 07:37:11 pm » |
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So, guess Time Vault is still useless. So much for removing power level errata. Wizards failed.
Utter lies, the card is closer to its printed wording than ever. The statement "To untap it, you must skip a turn after this one" is 100% true for this wording, and you can't deny it.  In their view, which I agree with, power level errata isn't a bad thing because it weakens cards; it's bad because the card and its Oracle wording don't match. Time Vault's oracle wording is as close to its printed wording as ever before; therefore their goal is accomplished. If you choose to believe they had ulterior Vault-killing motives, that is your preorgative, but you can't deny that their stated goal succeeded. |
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« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 07:41:02 pm by Matt »
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http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF---------------------- SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar ---------------------- noitcelfeRmaeT {Team Hindsight}
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2006, 07:58:46 pm » |
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Other cards which don't untap "as normal" are interpreted as not untapping during the untap step, but untap by other means. A special exception is made for time vault, and that's what I disagree with.
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
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Apollyon
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« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2006, 07:59:09 pm » |
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Brainstorm, Gorilla Shaman, Ashen Ghoul, Flash Foliage, and the shocklands got unannounced errata.
As did Soul Burn. It's the first regenerating sorcery thus far printed.
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pyr0ma5ta
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More cowbell
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« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2006, 08:08:21 pm » |
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Brainstorm, Gorilla Shaman, Ashen Ghoul, Flash Foliage, and the shocklands got unannounced errata.
As did Soul Burn. It's the first regenerating sorcery thus far printed.
Lol |
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Team Mishra's Jerkshop: Mess with the best, die like the rest.
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Juggernaut GO
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« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2006, 08:18:32 pm » |
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hooooray for wizards not ruining magic.
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Rand Paul is a stupid fuck, just like his daddy. Let's go buy some gold!!!
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ELD
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Eric Dupuis
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« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2006, 08:32:42 pm » |
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Why on God's green earth would they errata Ashen Ghoul to be a zombie??? Were they sick of losing to my legacy dredge list, so they figured Engineered plague would now hit the zombie tokens and the ghoul? It's even called ghoul in the name of the card. How does that not create confusion?
On a note with Time Vault, they would need to errata Mana Vault etc to match if it weren't a power issue.
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« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 08:36:20 pm by ELD »
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Yare
Zealot
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Playing to win
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« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2006, 09:26:46 pm » |
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On a note with Time Vault, they would need to errata Mana Vault etc to match if it weren't a power issue.
My condolences to everybody who bid on a Time Vault on eBay. I have to say I am very surprised at the errata they gave time vault. Way to give a teaser only to not deliver. :/ |
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CHA1N5
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bluh
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« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2006, 09:44:40 pm » |
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On a note with Time Vault, they would need to errata Mana Vault etc to match if it weren't a power issue.
They can't: there's no way for you to pay the 4 mana during untap. |
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yespuhyren
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« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2006, 10:05:08 pm » |
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I am confused at why people will buy Time Vaults. The card with its "new text" is horrible...
Time Vault comes into play tapped.
If Time Vault would become untapped, instead choose one - untap Time Vault and you skip your next turn; or Time Vault remains tapped.
Ok....so it triggers on your Untap Phase...where you can't play any spells. If you use voltaic key...you skip a turn still. If prices went up on these, either I don't realize something or a lot of Magic players are really bad and are getting them because the card is a hot topic since Fusilade
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Team Blitzkrieg: The Vintage Lightning War. TK: Tinker saccing Mox.
Jamison: Hard cast FoW.
TK: Ha! Tricked you! I'm out of targets
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dicemanx
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« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2006, 10:31:42 pm » |
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Time Vault isn't any closer to an "intended text" because textual intent cannot be determined no matter how hard you try.
They selected an arbitrary interpretation and went with it, ensuring that the card stays neutered in the process. How unfortunate - why even bother, seriously.
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Without cultural sanction, most or all our religious beliefs and rituals would fall into the domain of mental disturbance. ~John F. Schumaker
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Komatteru
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Joseiteki
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« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2006, 10:48:14 pm » |
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Actually, I think this is the perfect wording for it. The intention (as it seemed to me) for how Time Vault is supposed to work is that you have to skip a turn in order to tap it to take another turn. This new wording reflects that, without counters and all that overhead. BTW, the effect is a replacement effect. Anytime you go to untap the Vault--Voltaic Key, untap phase, Twiddle, whatever, you have to choose whether to skip another turn. I doubt Time Vault was intended to work with Fusillade when it was designed.  |
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dicemanx
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« Reply #54 on: July 10, 2006, 11:00:41 pm » |
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The intention (as it seemed to me) for how Time Vault is supposed to work "As it seemed to me" says everything. You are making an interpretation based on opinion, which is the very definition of arbitrary. |
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Without cultural sanction, most or all our religious beliefs and rituals would fall into the domain of mental disturbance. ~John F. Schumaker
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Machinus
Keldon Ancient
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« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2006, 11:01:50 pm » |
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Until Richard Garfield himself comes down from heaven and tells us exactly what he wanted the card to do, discussing intent on Time Vault is a waste of time.
No one should be surprised by this update. They took Time Vault away very deliberately, and they have no reason to give it back.
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T1: Arsenal
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LotusHead
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Team Vacaville
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« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2006, 11:09:24 pm » |
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Basalt Monolith
Artifact 3
Rules Text (Oracle): Basalt Monolith doesn't untap during your untap step.
: Untap Basalt Monolith.
: Add 3 to your mana pool.
So this bad boy combos with Power Artifact now? Saweeet!
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Pave
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« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2006, 12:09:38 am » |
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They took Time Vault away very deliberately, and they have no reason to give it back.
Wizards said they would give it back when they stated that they would remove power errata from a number of cards, including Time Vault. They have in no way removed the power errata from Time Vault. They have changed the errata of the card but not redressed its 'very deliberate' neutering. I find their conduct deceptive. When you run a business you do what you say you will do. Wizards have not done this with respect to Time Vault. Wizards failed.
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Danzig
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Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde.
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« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2006, 12:20:55 am » |
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Until Richard Garfield himself comes down from heaven... Is he dead? Didn't he have a Planeswalker spark? Say it ain't so Joe! |
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Team Broken - Waiting for Smmenen to return Dark Rituals since 2004.
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Prometheon
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« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2006, 12:22:18 am » |
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No way. I totally agree with them on this wording. There's no more weird time counter bullshit, and the original card said NOTHING about it being able to untap it during other times. This new wording seems perfect.
From the original card: "... to untap it, you must skip a turn"
Applause to Wizards.
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