UW FISH: Teh Primer!

[Dxfiler]

I've received lots of PM's from people and a good amount of questions in real life about UW fish.  Due to this, I've decided to write a primer on it.  With SCG looming on the horizon, I feel a primer for this archtype would be most appropriate because it's been consistently doing well the past few months, and appears to be increasing in popularity.  I peg about 20-30% of the room to be fish come SCG.  This primer is just for UW fish, so please keep that in mind before responding.  All the other versions of fish out right now, such as 3 color vial, 4 color hide/seek, blue/black... are all very viable, and I respect them...but this primer is strictly about..

BLUE/WHITE FISH!

HISTORY:

The deck took center stage way back in May of 2005 when Jason Zheng won Waterbury with it.

UW Fish
Jason Zheng
1st, Waterbury 5-8-05

Maindeck:
 
4 Flying Men
4 Icatian Javelineers
4 Meddling Mage
4 Ninja Of The Deep Hours
 
4 Standstill

3 Null Rod
 
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Daze
4 Force Of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Stifle
3 Swords To Plowshares

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Arcane Laboratory
2 Energy Flux
1 Chain Of Vapor
3 Disenchant
1 Echoing Truth
3 Orim's Chant
1 Rushing River
1 Swords To Plowshares

The deck was aimed directly at control slaver, which was running rampant over every tournament at that time.  While previous versions of UW fish had used many of the cards in Jason's list, the trump card for that particular tournament was Icatian Javelineers.  The javelineers would easily kill welders as well as win any wars with the mirror match.  The Javelineers ended up being a one trick pony, but Jason's base would continue to be effective for months to come.  What's interesting to note is the use of no vials, yet the deck could still effectively use landstill.  This would be helped by Mishra's factory, as well as the various cheap disruption  provided by the combination daze/stifle and the staple wastelands/stripmine.  Also of note was Jason's use of Orim's chant in the sideboard.  He had won multiple matches with it post-board simply because no one saw it coming.

UW Fish took a backseat for a while, because it didn't have enough staying power to play a control game and it wasn't aggro enough to play like a dedicated aggro deck.   Combo started to make major rounds and whoop on it, and slaver adapted.  It was only matter of time before another version would pop up that was more aggressive than previous incarnations:

U/W Fish
A Vintage deck, by Rian Litchard
10th place at a StarCityGames Power 9 Tournament tournament in Rochester, New York, United States on 2005-12-11
Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
4 Chalice Of The Void
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Null Rod

Creatures
4 Meddling Mage
4 Savannah Lions
3 Stormscape Apprentice
4 True Believer

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Force Of Will
3 Swords To Plowshares

Legendary Creatures
3 Isamaru, Hound Of Konda

Sorceries
1 Time Walk

Basic Lands
2 Island
2 Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Strip Mine
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
4 Seal Of Cleansing
3 Last Breath
1 Swords To Plowshares
4 Kataki, War's Wage

This version forego Zheng's stifles and dazes for more definitive solutions to combo in true believer and chalice of the void.  The flying men and Javileeners were also substituted for 2 power one drop beaters in Savannah lions and Isamaru's.  Both versions utilize null rod well, but while Zheng's would setup a card advantage game through his dazes/stifles/landstills, Litchard's version just wanted to beat down before the opponent ever had a chance to stabalize.  The mana base is worth noting because of the additional fetchlands over factories.  Drains, while still definitely being played, took a backseat given the rise of combo, thus the cutting of factory made perfect sense.  Additional fetches allowed more consistent draws because of the ability to get any color on command, and the draw consistency would be available because of the interaction with brainstorm.  Of note in the board are the Kataki's, which previously had not seen much play and finally gave UW fish a more appropriate answer to Stax besides the de facto energy flux.  Thus showing that the only thing better than flux is one with legs. 

For the early part of 2006 UW fish took a serious backseat in the metagame and was dismissed outright by many.  SS had taken over the fish scene and dominated many tournaments.  SS twoed the line between aggro and control, often playing its game entirely on what it drew.  What it lacked in focus was made up for by the number of sheer options the deck had.  It could sit back and play the control game with stifle/misD/fow/duress, or it could beat down with quick cutpurses/confidants.  It even contained elements of combo in waiting to setup an erayo lock by dumping all cheap spells for one turn.  I know I said I wasn't going to mention a non uw fish deck... but I lied :p

Sullivan Solution
A Vintage deck, by Tommy Kolowith
1st place at a StarCityGames Power 9 Tournament tournament in Rochester, New York, United States on 2006-06-11
Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire

Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Dimir Cutpurse

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Chain Of Vapor
1 Darkblast
4 Force Of Will
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rushing River
1 Shadow Of Doubt
4 Stifle
1 Vampiric Tutor

Legendary Creatures
3 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant

Sorceries
4 Duress
1 Hymn To Tourach
1 Time Walk

Basic Lands
2 Island
1 Swamp

Lands
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Underground Sea
3 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Skullclamp
2 Energy Flux
4 Planar Void
1 Darkblast
4 Diabolic Edict
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Shadow Of Doubt


The reason I list SS is because it was my personal inspiration to run UW fish.  SS, with all of it's tools, is a deck that had an identity crisis.  It doesn't know what it wants to be when it grows up.  With the emergence of SS as a major deck, I saw the opportunity to build a more clearly defniied fish that could take it on as well as have the same good matchups that it had. 

U/W Fish
A Vintage deck, by Dave Feinstein
3rd place at a Waterbury tournament in Waterbury, Connecticut, United States on 2006-07-30
Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Null Rod

Creatures
4 Meddling Mage
4 Kird Ape
3 Ninja Of The Deep Hours
4 Kird Ape
4 Savannah Lions

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Force Of Will
3 Stifle
4 Swords To Plowshares

Legendary Creatures
4 Isamaru, Hound Of Konda
5 Kird Ape
3 Kataki, War's Wage

Sorceries
1 Time Walk

Basic Lands
2 Island
2 Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
1 To Dave Feinstein!
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
2 Energy Flux
3 Seal Of Cleansing
11 Kird Ape
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Orim's Chant
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Kataki, War's Wage

The deck clearly follows the path of previous incarnations of UW fish in that it is centered around null rod and wants to play an aggro/disruption game.  It contains the quirky tricks of Zheng's list but retains the raw power that is the focus in Litchard's version.  Note the ninjas and kataki's playing together, in harmony.  This version would be immediately altered because of the legality of Jotun Grunt, which has helped catapult fish as a whole back to a top tier archtype in the format.

Brett Allen WU GRint FIsh!
1st at Eudominia on 8/27/2006
Maindeck
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Stifle
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Daze
3 Null Rod
1 Timewalk
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Echoing Truth
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
2 Stormscape Apprentice
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Meddling Mage
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
3 Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Tundra

Sideboard
2 Blue Elemental
1 Hydroblast
2 Energy Flux
2 Orim's Chant
2 Seal of Cleansing
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Rule of Law
1 Repeal
1 Exalted Angel

Brett's version loses all of the one mana, two power beaters (save for a lone Isamaru) in exchange for many silver bullets.  The mystical tutor gives UW fish an element of card selection not previously seen much.  He's able to tutor up whatever he needs for a given scenario.  Parts of his sidebaord also reflect this strategy, such as the one repeal and decreased counts of Orim's Chant and Reb's.  I am personally not a fan of the card selection route, because it diultes the
redudancy of the deck, making it more prone to counters.  What's worse than having your Ancentral Recall countered?  Tutoring for it and then having it countered.  With that said, I respect mystical tutor and understand its benefits, I just wouldn't recommend it right now.  More on that later.   

CARD ANALYSIS:

The Staples-

Nullrod- Make absolutely no mistake about it, nullrod is the backbone to this deck.  It's constrictive nature actually allows flexibility.  The fact that you can't run a full complement of moxen and other fast mana is more than made up for the fact that nullrod let's you compete with those that do.  The mana denial it affords plays a perfect complement to the stifles/daze happy people among us.  It also buys time for those that have run the card advantage game through its landstill elements.  For those who like to go the tutor route and have card selection, rod gives you time to do that as well. My personal favorite strength of the card is that tt plays well with little beaters who just want to get in there...now they have time to.  Probably most important above all of these reasons, nullrod makes wastelands/stripmines more scarier in here than any other version of fish.  The strip effects often play a very crucial element in games.  The raw power of broken draws is replaced by the redudancy and consistency of a barrage of mana denial.  Also historically, combo is forced to deal with nullrod before it can go to town, as is any deck that wants to resolve a yawgmoth's will.  Under no circumstances should your version of UW fish not include this card.

Meddling Mage- A prepeared player's best friend.  In the world of vintage, the majority of decks are well known and have key cards that can be attacked.  Meddling Mage, when used correctly, is always a threat.  Decks that can counter him are always faced with the tough choice of whether to or not.  Decks that can't counter it, such as pitch long, are usually forced to deal with him before continuing their gameplan.  Meddling Mage is also a fantastic bait card, meaning that if you're able to cast two threats in the same turn and meddling mage happens to be the less important of the two, you can lead with him first, thus giving the opponent the hard choice of countering it or holding the counter back for a greater threat.  Against slaver, meddling mage is a good example of a secondary threat.  If possible, leading with him as bait before null rod or jotun grunt is almost always the right call.  If he's countered, your real threat has a much bigger chance of coming down.  If he resolves, you might not even have to cast the threal threat.  Thirst for knowledge, Tinker and Yawg Will are all very possible things to name with mage, and all damage a control player.  Against combo, I personally think the biggest 'must answer' play you have in the entire deck against them is Meddling Mage on Yawg Will.  Long is more narrow than Gifts, so mage naming that tends be more effective.  Against Gifts, leading out naming Will is still usually the right call, but cases can be made in certain scenarios for a whole host of other ones... top alternatives being Tinker and Tendrils of Agony.  Even against the mirror, meddling mage has plenty of uses.  If against a version that includes black, naming dark confidant first is probably the correct call every time.  Against an exact mirror match, just know what beats you.  If you have the creature advantage and are winning the race, naming plow could be correct.  If you've burned through grunts and they haven't, that's another solid call.  If you've ancestral'd and they haven't, that's perfectly acceptable as well.  Bottom line, if you're naming a card that is run in both versions, just make sure it hurts your opponent more than it does you.

Jotun Grunt- Once again putting a clock back in this deck.  Even if you're not going for straight beatdown, I can't see a legitimate reason as to why you wouldn't want this guy in UW fish.  The argument I hear the most for not running him is that he hurts the blue count.  I don't buy that.  You can easily find room to run this card, and should definitely do so.  For me personally, I cut ninjas.  It wasn't even close.  Ninja is good when it gets going, Grunt is a threat on command.  It also works wonders with meddling mage, often making it so I can name something else other than Yawg Will if I already have a grunt online.    Bottom line, a 4/4 for 2 with the 'drawback' being an asset makes it a must run.  As much as I love Grunty, I feel four is a mistake.  You never want two opening hand and you almost never drop it in the first two-three turns of the game. 

Kataki, War's Wage- He plays well with others.  By others, I mean null rod.  He's also your best chance to beat Stax game one, which is traditionally a tough match for fish as a whole.

Isamaru, Hound of Konda- OH NOES.  A ONE MANA 2/2 THAT CAN ONLY SWING.  THIS SURELY CANNOT BE A STAPLE CARD.
It is... get over it :p  In the face of darkblast and lava dart, he stands alone.  There's been much debate on the right number, with anywhere from 1-4 being popular.  I'm currently in the camp of three.  SS has died out and darkblast has basically left the building, so there's no real reason to have four.  You like having one early but you never want more than one opening hand.  It's that simple.

Brainstorm- It's freaking Brainstorm.

Force Of Will- Next.

Swords to Plowshares- I'm a fan of the full four, but people have been cutting down on them in the face of combo.  I understand that, but you're going to up against tinker/colossus after board anyway, so it's not like they're going to be dead.  Also, if Xantid Swarm comes back from exile, it will be handy.  Against non-combo, it's never bad.  It can hit anything and everything as far as creatures go.  Even against Oath, a historically rough matchup, you should be able to kill anything game one, as they traditionally do not maindeck Simic Sky Swallower.

Stifle- The card has proven it's worth time after time.  Probably the best game 1 card in the deck.  What I mean by that is, it has the most impact game one, as once an opponent sees it they have the fear and will play around it the entire match.  This provides the flexibility to board it out, or at least one or two copies of it.  I could see not boarding them all out, just to keep opponent's on their toes, but personally I'm always boarding it out.  With that said, it's still very useful and I'm never upset to have it opening hand.  More than one I find to be an issue against non-combo, which is why I'm a strong supporter of just three.

Anectral/Walk/Lotus/Mox Sapphire/Mox Pearl- Pretty much all must haves.  Arguments have been made for actually cutting lotus, the biggest being that goblin welder can't weld out null rod.  I don't think that's enough of a reason to not run the single most powerful mana accelerant in the format.

Wasteland/Strip- Full complement of Wastelands and one Strip Mine is the way to go.  If Mana Drains come back in a big way, I could see arguments for cutting A wasteland to help make room for factories, but even then I'd try not to.  Wastes help you advance your game plan while hindering the opponent's.  That's the defining principle of this archtype.

Flooded Strand/Delta/Heath- 6-8 fetchlands is where you want to be.  Full complement of Strands, then the other ones depend on your mana count.  If you're close to even then just spit the deltas/heaths down the middle.  That's all there is to it.

Tundra- Dirka Dirka.  Mohammed Jihad.


MASTERFULLY DEBATABLE CARD CHOICES:

Daze- I have a love/hate relationship with this card.  Sometimes it wins the game, sometimes it just sits there.  When it will win do the former instead of latter is completely arbitrary.  To me, it's the ultimate one trick pony card.  Once your opponent sees it, it will probably never have any further impact the entire match.  This is notably unlike stfile, where playing around it forces your opponent to play different lands, activate abilities differently, etc.  With daze, you just wait to pay one more mana if the spell is that important to resolve.  While this can certainly be classified as playing around the card and hence a game advantage, it's not that much of a hinderence for anyone to play around in vintage.  The entire format revolves around fast mana.  Still, I'm torn on the card.  In a 61 person tournament overseas last week, Joachim Freitag went 6-1 with an exact copy of my day one Waterbury deck.  The only non-land exception (he took out a mox sapphire for an extra plains) was -1 Isamaru/+1 Daze.  Daze is a card that can randomly win games, but on the whole won't.  If you catch someone off guard, it's GG.  Having one copy of a card that can do that seems reasonable.

Stormscape Apprentice Vs. Savannah Lion- "THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!"

Eh.  I see cases for both.  One's a wizard, one's a lion.  Throw in tigers and bears, and you've got a classic on your hands.  Alright it's getting late.  So yeah, I'm in the camp of lion.  I've tested stormscape alot in this version and he just isn't doing enough.  The cases where he's saved me from colossus I can count on one hand.  Yes, he fends off friends from the mirror, but tying up a white a turn is a big deal.  Unless the cuddly creature he's fending off happens to be a Jotun Grunt, I don't see the mana he's tying up to be worth it vs. other fish.  Instead of trying up a mana, Lion just trades with other non-grunt creature you have an issue with.  The biggest argument on Stormscape for me is that he pitches to Force.  That just isn't enough for me, but I know plenty of people who continue to actively play with him and enjoy his company.  As for me, I prefer lions. 
That just didn't sound right. :p

Misdirection- I was previously against this card, but times change.  With all combo (both long and gifts) basically running these as FOW's 6-8, the best way to combat this is to fight fire with fire.  Unless Duress blows up into every single deck on the planet, MisD won't be a bad call in a large field.  At worst, it pitches to Force.

SIDEBOARD WAR!

True Believer Vs. Orim's Chant-   True Believer has been showing up in force in many sideboards recently. It is a fine, fine card... I just don't think there's room for it.  It's basically fighting Orim's chant for a home, and more often than not against combo I'd rather have chant than true believer.  Yes, if true believer hits they have to deal with it before they win, and it doesn't tie up mana... both HUGE pros for the card.  The biggest con for the card is it's not that hard for the opponent to deal with.  Combo brings in lots of bounce, and I'm noticing a big surge in massacres.  Sad  Orim's Chant, while you have to keep a white open, basically says they aren't going off period.  They can duress to force you to cast it, but that's basically a time walk.  If Xantid swarm falls back in fashion (currently it's nowhere to be seen because Long wanted a better manabase), then chant should probably be shown the door.  Until then, I'd say it's the right call over true believer.  Just my take on it, and I can definitely see why people run TB.

 

UW FISH - TEH FUTURE!

If SCG were tomorrow, this would be the UW fish I would play:

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Null Rod
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Midsdirection
4 Force of Will
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Stifle
1 Time Walk
4 Meddling Mage
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
3 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Savannah Lions


4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath

Sideboard:
2 energy flux
3 seal of cleansing
3 orim's chant
1 null rod
3 THREADS OF DISLOYALTY
3 umezawa's jitte   

As you can tell from the main, there isnt much further the deck can go at this point in time.  Just little tweaks.  The board though, that's a whole 'nother story.  With fish on the rise, I think at least 6 spots should be dedicated towards the mirror.  Since you've come this far, I'll just let the cat out of the bag:
Threads of Disloyalty is SOME GOOD.  Leagues better than Old Man of the Sea, in my opinion.  Unlike Old Man, threads steals immediately.  Unlike Old Man, threads can't be plowed.  Most importantly, unlike Old Man, threads can take Jotun Grunt.  I'm still in the testing phase with threads, but I'm pretty sure it's taking what would have otherwise been the Old Man spot of my sideboard.  For the record, threads on a welder is pretty hot, too

As for Blue Elemental Blast, it went the way of the do-do (extinct). Just doesn't seem needed at this point in time.  If something wacky like UR Goblins rises to prominence, then a case for BEB could be made once again the sideboard.  As of right now, I don't see BEB being an integral part of it.  The only other thing to note is the reduction of stax components.  For UW Fish, Stax is still pretty good post sideboard.  Cutting a few slots to up the anti-mirror plan seems fine.

In closing, UW fish is a consistent and powerful deck that's incredibly easy to build.  It can be picked up and played with relative ease as well.  Although I'd strongly recommend testing it beforehand so you can tweak it to however you want.  I'm not sure of the long term staying power of the deck.  My guess is that it will eventually fade back into the nether world, only to be called upon in different form by the power of greyskull a months afterwards.  Thus is the nature of things.  As it stands, UW fish is a good call for vintage and if you choose it as your deck, I hope it works for you and I hope my primer helped.

Enjoy.

- Dave Feinstein

Fixed your list.  You omitted a few cards.
-Kowal[/color]

[Liam-K]

Do you not find true believer shutting off gifts ungiven to be good?  WW does seem annoying as hell but that's what makes me think the card is runnable.  Another little problem for combo and a pain in the ass for gifts, he does double duty.

[brianpk80]

Do you not find true believer shutting off gifts ungiven to be good?  WW does seem annoying as hell but that's what makes me think the card is runnable.  Another little problem for combo and a pain in the ass for gifts, he does double duty.

That's a good point.  True Believer is a lot more than a Meddling Mage with "Tendrils of Agony" plastered all over him.  He stops Mindslaver, Gifts Ungiven, Duress, Jester's Cap, Diabolic Edict, Hurkyl's Recall, Cabal Therapy, Orim's Chant (ever have one Misdirected?), Ambassador Laquatus/Stroke, Intuition (per new errata), Disciple of the Vault, and a slew of other random things that creep up from time to time.  And for someone running Vials over Null Rod, True Believer is a must have.

-BPK

[Pave]

Thankyou for the detailed and illuminating summary of the history of the deck and your thoughts on its essential identity and on card choices.

As I remember it Rian's deck aimed not so much at pure combo as Gifts: that True Believer hosed Tendrils was a bonus.  Chalices were there at the core of the deck's mana denial strategy, taken to all opposing decks, not purely or chiefly combo.  Chalices were Null Rods 4 through 7, as it were, or more precisely the Null Rods were Chalices 5 through 7.  Rian identified his deck as basically the sound application of mana denial plus beats.  You put it well: "The raw power of broken draws is replaced by the redudancy and consistency of a barrage of mana denial".  Rian's Chalices were crucial there, I think.  Don't you miss them, and the massive tempo they can provide - they are FREE - as well as their redundancy with Null Rod, ensuring that you see at least one each game?  Or do you think them too coin-flip and draw dependant and too-often dead?  Do you think Stifle is simply better?  You say of Null Rod, the "backbone to this deck", that your "favorite strength of the card is that it plays well with little beaters who just want to get in there...now they have time to".  That's why I like Chalice: you can buy time AND drop a beater simultaneously.  (I often haven't Stifle mana open.)  Kataki, furthermore, is like a Chalice (as well as a Flux) on legs, negating moxen to a degree, and along with Stifle he would take up some of the slack of absent Chalices, I expect. 

If "the only thing better than flux is one with legs", then why do you give preference to Energy Flux over the fourth Kataki in the board of your final, proposed list?  Is it to dodge Chalice at two?

I think it worth noting that a major boon of Jotun Grunt is that it definitively addresses the previously problematic Ichorid match-up.

Another grave and relatively new problem for UW Fish is Simic Sky Swallower post-board, which you fail to address.  Grunt helps to race here, but attacking the Oath is likely the better approach.  Meddling Mage and Seals help here, but I might also lean on Kami of Ancient Law/Ronom Unicorn as well, such is the failure of traditional solutions Swords and Stormscape Apprentice.  Do you to some degree depend on Stifle and even Orim's Chant to Time Walk you against Oath post-board?

You omit Mox Sapphire in your final list.  Have you tested this much?  I am hesitant.  On the other hand I find two Islands at least one too many.  Have you ever found this?

EDIT: You also neglect to mention the possibility of running Hallowed Fountain, when of Stomping Ground in RG beatz you write 'When you play a deck like this you gotta go all out'.

[Pathian]

Brainstorm- It's freaking Brainstorm.

I do find Brainstorm + fetch to be an incredibly powerful fixer, but I've heard some people argue that Brainstorm doesn't belong in fish because you don't really have bombs to hide on top, it doesn't disrupt the opponent, and it doesn't beat down. Any thoughts on this?

[Harlequin]

Very nice Summary, and Primer.  I think this will help newer deck builders a lot.  However....

Brainstorm- It's freaking Brainstorm.

I disagree with Brainstorm in fish.  

Let’s take a more in depth look at the underlying reason why brainstorm is good.  As everyone understands, brainstorm is not card advantage.  We all know this, and this is NOT my argument.  But that is the foundation of my argument, Brainstorm doesn't draw cards... so why is it good?  There must be something else that makes brainstorm one of the most powerful cards in magic.  Right?  

Let's analysis a play I'm sure everyone is familiar with.  Your on the play, 7 card hand, land pass, land pass; Brainstorm EOT.

Your hand:
Great Card
Good Card
Ok Card
Ok Card
Bad Card
Bad Card
(spent: Land & Brainstorm)

Drawing---
Good card
ok card
ok card

Now you have:
Great card
Good Card
Good Card
Ok card
Ok card

---- Deck ---
Bad Card
Bad card

So what did brainstorm ACTAULLY take advantage of?  It took advantage of innate power differences in magic cards.  Card X is better than Card Y, so I'll keep X but not Y... In summary, Brainstorm Draws its Quality from the DIFFERENCE in power between your "ok cards" and your "Bad cards"


The reason I don't like brainstorm in Fish is because.. A card in fish is a card in fish.  There is no real power discrepancy between fish cards to abuse.  Is it really worth a slot, a blue mana, and the loss of a card to swap a wasteland for a stifle?  Both cards are very similar in functionality, and stifle IS undoubtedly better (assuming they have fetches in play).  But in now way is this comparable to Slaver trading out junk for Y-Will, Tinker, Recall, Time Walk, DT, Etc etc.  Even swapping up redundant Welders or manas for a Thirst and a shuffle effect is a HUGE difference in power level for CS.  This is only one example, Infact I would use this same argument to argue that Brainstorm is possibly one of the most powerful cards in Grim/Pitch long.  Simply because there is HUGE swings in power level between Card X and card Y.

Secondary to the above argument, W/U fish runs the lowest "Shuffle" count of any deck that runs Brainstorm.  Simply because it doesn't run Black tutors, that are staples in other decks.  And rarely even would consider Enlightened Tutor or Mystical tutor as anything more than "Proxy Cardboard."


For this reason, I think the strongest cards to fill these slots are:
4 Flying man
4 Ninja of Deep Hours
3 Curiosity

0 Creatures that only attack (Lions... I'm looking at you)
0 Brainstorms
0 Stormscape Apprentice

Man/Ninja/Curiosity is a very powerful card drawing tag team.  It gives you essentially 7 ways to draw an extra card on turn 2.  And if all goes well, and extra card per turn for the rest of the game.  Now rather than deciding which card sucks more: Wasteland or Stifle ... you have BOTH in hand (where they can argue that amongst themselves)

Think of it in terms of Stars.  Each card has a star value for its power level IN YOUR HAND, Force is like 3, thirst probably 2 to 3, Yawgs will like 10 stars, lotus is like 7, welder maybe 2, off color moxen like 1 to 1/2, Trick and DSC are 0.  And essentially everything in Fish a solid 2 stars.  Brainstorm in CS will trade two 0's, 1/2's, or 1's for two 2's or 3's.  They might even pick up a huge boost from a will or Tinker.  A brainstorm in CS will change a 5 star hand, into a 8-9 star hand.  In fish you’re trading two 1s or 2s for two 2s or 3s.  Netting you a change of 2 stars?  So you've changed a 5 star hand into a 6 star hand?  At the same cost, you could simply draw an extra card each turn.  And now you get that same 5 star to 6 star hand increase (from drawing 1 card)... but now your doing that every turn.


=====

On True Beliver.  If they reverse the Oath of Druids Errata (like they did for intuition) then I would say True Beliver might be good in the sideboard.  but I whole heartedly agree with the arguements posed in favor of Orim's Chant.

[dicemanx]

There is rarely an explanation from any Fish players why they insist on only 3 Null Rods instead of 4, when the card is often the "backbone" of the archetype. I understand that a second Null Rod past a resolved first Rod has no value, but you want to ensure that you see one early consistently and that it actually resolves (in the event that the first is countered, you do want to see another as soon as possible). Any comments on this?

[merfolkOTPT]

I have a question as well, i know this is a thread mostly about UW fish but the UW/b deck that recently top 8ed at Gen Con was not mentioned and it has a lot of different calls then this deck.  How do you address those differences?
1.) It has a very light splash of black solely for confidant. 
2.) Running the chalice + aether vial route as opposed to null rod. 
3.) Running no creatures that are purely for beatdown purposes.

I can't speak to whether it would run grunt now but i feel like Liek's list should be talked about and kept in mind as it has been at least somewhat successful and it has a very different philosophy then this deck.

[Scoops666]

There is rarely an explanation from any Fish players why they insist on only 3 Null Rods instead of 4, when the card is often the "backbone" of the archetype. I understand that a second Null Rod past a resolved first Rod has no value, but you want to ensure that you see one early consistently and that it actually resolves (in the event that the first is countered, you do want to see another as soon as possible). Any comments on this?

That's pretty much why I don't run 4. I look at all the 4 ofs in the deck as things you want to be casting multiples of every game (Force, Mage, Brainstorm). Those cards are always useful. However, sometimes the rest aren't so hot. Multiple Grunts mean they both die quicker. A second Stifle may be one fetch land too late. and a Second Null Rod is most definately redundant. I agree that it is an important spell to resolve, but it just seems that it isn't worth the drawing of a dead card later in the game to gain that slightly higher percentage of resolving one of them.

[mongrel12]

One card you didn't adress, but have been staples in Gay/R and other fish builds in the past is Mishra's factory. Why don't you run it?

[Dante]

There is rarely an explanation from any Fish players why they insist on only 3 Null Rods instead of 4, when the card is often the "backbone" of the archetype. I understand that a second Null Rod past a resolved first Rod has no value, but you want to ensure that you see one early consistently and that it actually resolves (in the event that the first is countered, you do want to see another as soon as possible). Any comments on this?

That's pretty much why I don't run 4. I look at all the 4 ofs in the deck as things you want to be casting multiples of every game (Force, Mage, Brainstorm). Those cards are always useful. However, sometimes the rest aren't so hot. Multiple Grunts mean they both die quicker. A second Stifle may be one fetch land too late. and a Second Null Rod is most definately redundant. I agree that it is an important spell to resolve, but it just seems that it isn't worth the drawing of a dead card later in the game to gain that slightly higher percentage of resolving one of them.

A second Null Rod may be redundant once the first ACTUALLY hits play, but having 4 instead of 3 allows you to see it sooner and more often, which is a bonus vs Drain decks and Combo since you can recast it if they counter the first (or get around Duress).  For a card that is the "backbone", I'm still not personally convinced running 3 is better than 4.  Having a second Rod in play also makes Chain of Vapor or Repeal not a good bounce option (yes obv Echoing Truth, Hurklys, and Rebuild still bounce both, but people tend to vary the CC of their bounce).

Dante

[orgcandman]

2 null rods is only good in two situations:

1- the first gets countered
2- your opponening is running boomerang / chain of vapors / some other singularly targetted bounce spell rather than rushing river, shattering spree, rack & ruin, echoing truth, rebuild, hurkyls recall, etc..

Not that I have an opinion on the number of null rods anyway, because I don't play fish enough to know.

However, I do have a question about the merits of disrupt in the daze slot. Disrupt is pretty much good against every deck right now. Pitch long, gifts, etc.. About the only deck its terrible against, Annul is great against. With that in mind, would you consider a metagame change to this whereby daze was dropped in favor of disrupt/annul or some combination of the two?

[nataz]

I'm actually surprised that you didn't touch on meandeck's UW vial fish. It did very well for a while, both at SCG and in the NewEngland area two summers ago (?). For me that was the deck that brought fish back into the meta-game, as well as introducing UW as a viable color.

Also of note when talking about Null rod is that running null rod doesn't auto-disinclude running a set of moxen. GWS URBana fish would be a successful example of this.

Another subject that I go back and forth on are Kataki and True Believer. Kataki is excellent with your full set of waste effects, daze, and null rod, but true believer can fill in some critical gaps game one. It's a meddling mage for gifts (MD Gifts), intuition/stroke/recall (WGDX), and Tendrils (Pitch Long). Narrowly speaking, true believer is stronger then kataki, but kataki fits into the fish plan of resource denial. I'm still not sure which one I like better, or even if I can find room to run both of them in the same deck.


anyways, nice little primer, and congrats on your Top 8 at the TML.

-carter

[Harlequin]

Then, about Flying Men and Ninja of the Deep Hours, they aren't spectacular because they don't actually provide a clock.  Remember that this deck is oriented to play early beaters and back it up with disruption, in order to stay ahead just long enough to win.

I don't really see how a 2/2 swing on turn 2 is different from say... a 2/2 swing on turn 2 and draw a card.  A 2/2 is a 2/2 so the clock is the same (in fact I could make the arguement that my 3 damage clock is faster than your 2 damage clock).  The tempo arguement is much more valid.  With man -> ninja, your tieing up your turn 2 mana to draw a card.  Its also not irrelevent to mention that I get then man back in my hand to await his becoming 1/2 of a force of will.  The real comparison to be drawn is... can the deck afford a tempo loss in turn 2, to have a dramitically improved turn 3, 4, and 5... If you have daze and Force to mitagate that turn 2 loss, then I think the answer is yes.

Also its not irrelevant that flying man gives you a plan-B,  a Curios Flying man will most surely win a fish mirror match in which the "ground forces" are in deadlock.  1 Manland will put your turn 1 hound on the defence by turn 3.  Curious Flying man however will bring home the card advantage.  Sure its a 1 damage clock but I can attest to the Curious Flying man going all the way.  Game 3, in TMD-8's Da 2, Finals.  A friend of mine played a flying man with cuiosity on turn 2.  Who proceded to attack for 17 damage over the corse of 17 turns, and draw 17 cards, to win the game (against a UBR Fish deck). 

Rian Litchard explains why Brainstorm is chosen as a draw engine as opposed to something like Standstill:

Quote from: kirdape3 on December 11, 2005, 12:22:34 AM
Brainstorm replaces Standstill because there are exactly zero ways to provide a clock if you don't have one (therefore you can only cast it when you're winning, therefore it's unnecessary).

100% agree with that statement.  Standstill is a terrible card.  It only beats bad players, so yes Brainstorm is better than standstill.  However saying Brainstorm > Standstill doesn't mean Brainstorm > Every other draw spell.

[Liek]

You cut Mox Sapphire, I cut Mox Pearl. Weird.

One thing you haven't mentioned yet is how to beat Massacre. I've recently began not putting Tundras into play (if I can help it,) but I don't think your deck can cast spells without a Plains/Tundra. Would you hold a threat or two back, much like a Standard deck would against Wrath of God, or would you play everything, and try to Mage/FOW thier Massacre? Or would you just not care because one of your guys is a Jotun Grunt?

I don't understand how you can dedicate 6 cards in your sideboard for aggro mirrors. That has to be too many.

Even though I don't think Brainstorm fits into a Fish deck, if it's cut, I'm sure it would be tempting to add more white cards. The final list posted contains 18 blue cards, including the Force of Wills and the Power. The Brainstorms seem to serve a purpose, but I still don't think "getting rid of extra Legends" justifies playing either Isamaru or Brainstorm. But anyways, this deck is designed to play with Brainstorm, so it's probably not going to be cut.

I think you should play one Karakas. I played one in UW Vial Fish before I added the Confidants, mostly just to mise against Oath game one. In Fish mirrors it turns Kataki and Isamaru into Blinking Spirits, and can only be answered by Wasteland (which for me is great, if they aren't killing my Factories I'm winning.) Anyways, anything that makes Kataki useful in a Fish mirror is probably good, and your manabase can definetly handle it.

Anyways, good primer, and you beat me to mine (which has been in the works for way too long...) It would be a little awkward for me to post mine right after yours, so I guess I'll wait awhile or get more testing in or something. But, like you said, several people have asked for a primer from me as well, I guess I should get around to finishing one myself...

[dicemanx]

That's pretty much why I don't run 4. I look at all the 4 ofs in the deck as things you want to be casting multiples of every game (Force, Mage, Brainstorm).

A 4-of can also be a spell that you want to find asap because it's an integral part of your mana denial strategy - drawing a "useless" second one is hardly tragic if your plan is "working" (having resolved Null Rod #1). On the flip side, not finding one in time or not being able to resolve one early could mean the game.

[Sean Ryan]

Good primmer.  Thanks!

Adding the 4th Rod is something that should be tested.  Somewhere along the way it become gospel to run 3 and everyone basically just accepeted it as right.  However, with the rise of Tendrils decks 4 Rods seems neccassary.  This would be yet another reason to support running Brainstorm.

@Liek,

Don't wait on posting your primmer unless you really need more testing.  Dave gave us only part of the Fish primmer.  We need to hear from the Vial side and bulids spalshing black before we can consider this series a complete primmer.

Thanks
Sean

[Gabethebabe]

There is a thing i would like to say about Apprentice vs Lion.

I play the apprentice, because A LOT of decks play Tinker-Colossus and after sideboarding, lotsa people side in a Colossus if they see you play Fish. So there is always the debate: do I keep the plows in? If I side them out, dag, they drop Colossus turn 1-3 and I lose. If I keep them in? Dag, I have a dead card in hand when they don´t go the Colossus route.

Against deck like Gifts and combo-that-sides-in-Colossus and a whole range of similar decks you can side out your plows if you play Apprentice. You don´t draw dead cards, but you still have an out hen they drop Colossus.

Aniother advantage is you can drop Apprentice turn 1 off a Island and keep Daze active. If you want to do that with a creature that costs , you have to fetch a Tundra and maybe they Waste it when you didn´t want them to.

[kirdape3]

The reason that I personally don't play four Null Rods is that I also play Chalice of the Voids.  7 mana-hosing artifacts is a ton when you don't have too many ways to fix your draws.  As it is I'll run into two of them far more than I like - I may cut the Rods altogether for more creatures.  The creature suite at this point is not to be underestimated - you have this list of RETARDED creatures to choose from:

Savannah Lions
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Stormscape Apprentice
Meddling Mage
True Believer
Kataki, War's Wage
Jotun Grunt
Azorius Guildmage
Ninja of the Deep Hours

... and that's just in U/W.  Black gives you Dark Confidant among other goodies, and the other colors are not as disruptive as the U/W(/b) series.

Also, in the three color builds, I'd be awfully tempted to drop Cabal Therapy in there.

[oneofchaos]

Dave Feinstein FTW, thanks for your primer and time

[Keno]

I played Lions Fish with Jotun Grunt in a tournament two weeks ago playing almost you're exact list except I didn't have Rods, Moxes or Lotus and replaced them with land and Chalice. I played 5 rounds, and lost 3 matches. One match I lost to b/w aggro with Shades, Factories, Vindicate etc. The other two matches I lost again CS and Gifts, all 4 games I lost against Tinker > DC/Trike/Titan, with my FoW/Chalice/Stp/Mage getting countered or REB.

Now I know that basing an opinion on just 1 tournament can be incorrect, but I really wanted my Stifles to be Stormscape Apprentices. Stifle did win me a game single handidly, but most of the time it just stalled for a turn and was pretty much irrelevant or dead. So what do you think of going -3 Stifle, +3 Apprentice? You get even more beatdown creatures while losing less to Tinker and Oath. This will allow you Mages and FoWs to be spent on stoping other threats.

I also Mark Gottlieb btw about why Oath hasn't recieved the same treatment as Intuition has:

Mark Gottlieb  <houseofcardsmail@yahoo.com> to me
   
Intuition got errata for no good reason. Oath of Druids got errata because it was busted.
 
Let's say we're playing a two-player game. I have Oath of Druids in play, and we're playing it as printed. At the beginning of your upkeep, my Oath of Druids triggers. This is supposed to be your Oath trigger (you're the one who's going to get a creature card), but that's not how it works. I control the Oath, so I control the triggered ability, so I choose the target. I have to choose a "target opponent" -- and the only opponent I have is you. So every time Oath triggers during your upkeep, I have to target you with the ability, and then you check to see if you control fewer creatures than yourself. (Hint: You don't.) You'll never get a creature this way.
 
Clearly, that's not how the card is supposed to work. We're considering revising the errata to make the ability targeted again, but I don't know whether or not that will happen. This is not a case of "power-level errata."
 
Mark

So perhaps in the near future we might be able to use True Believer to stop Oath of Druids which would be amazing.

[mongrel12]

What do you board out for your 6 mirror slots (jitte+threads)?

[Dxfiler]

wierd how i dont even play UW Fish and just read all of that.  good primer anyway, i enjoyed reading it even though it was completely unecessary.

Thank you for the somewhat backhanded compliment :p
I've seen people absolutely murder the maindeck before, such as cutting plows for repeals.  If people didn't do that, then I wouldn't feel the urgent need to do a primer 

Now to some more constructive comments:

One thing you haven't mentioned yet is how to beat Massacre. I've recently began not putting Tundras into play (if I can help it,) but I don't think your deck can cast spells without a Plains/Tundra. Would you hold a threat or two back, much like a Standard deck would against Wrath of God, or would you play everything, and try to Mage/FOW thier Massacre? Or would you just not care because one of your guys is a Jotun Grunt?

Massacre is not a card that you should be looking to 'beat.'  You just want to minimize the damage it can do without letting it completely alter how you play. Example- On day 2 of Waterbury against TK, I had the chance to plop down 2 mages on turn one off a very rare lotus + mox + tundra draw.  I opted to just lay one, using tundra and a mox.  Now I could have popped lotus + mox to cast it and not drop Tundra, or I could have plopped both out there with one naming Massacre.  I don't think either of those plays are correct.  I don't want to name Massacre because it is a very narrow hate card that at that point was just run by long as a one of.  This has changed, and gifts has incporated it into its board as well (see vintage worlds top 8 coverage), but still only as a one of in most cases.  I repesct massacre enough that I'm only going to lay out one mage without counterbackup as opposed to two, but I don't fear it enough that I'm going to use my other mage to name it.  There are just too many other things I need to be naming with mage before massacre in that matchup.  Yawg Will, Tinker, and Chain of Vapor (a much more fearsome hate card for fish because it bounces rods as well as mages) before I would ever want to name massacre.  With the addition of Jotun Grunt to the deck, it's become even less of a concern for me nowadays. 

I don't understand how you can dedicate 6 cards in your sideboard for aggro mirrors. That has to be too many.

Fish is on the rise.  I've looked at a ton of tourneys recently, and fish was in 90% of the top 8's in tourneys with more than 20 people... and that's just the ones getting published.  I know locally, it's been consistently placing well at regular New England Vintage tourney staples like the Beanie Exchange and Myriad Games.  In neighbording New Jersey/New York, I've heard of plenty of fish showing up and doing well.  Ashok recently and quietly posted a victory with UW fish in New Jersey.  You want to go outside of the East Coast?  Eudominia finished its accalimed power series with a fish on fish final.  Yes, different versions, but still both certainly fish.  Even oveseas, fish can be seen doing well in the past few weeks, as evidenced here: http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=471

Fish is also the easiest top tier deck to play, and I know of many who started playing vintage off it, then moved onto other things.  Those reasons are why I dedicate 6 spots of my sideboard to the mirror.  As far as what to side out for the mirror, there's a pretty straightforward swap of rods for jittes and stifles for threads that's been working well for me.   

Even though I don't think Brainstorm fits into a Fish deck, if it's cut, I'm sure it would be tempting to add more white cards. The final list posted contains 18 blue cards, including the Force of Wills and the Power. The Brainstorms seem to serve a purpose, but I still don't think "getting rid of extra Legends" justifies playing either Isamaru or Brainstorm. But anyways, this deck is designed to play with Brainstorm, so it's probably not going to be cut.

I can see your reasoning on not liking brainstorm.  In mine, it can't be cut because the deck is designed around it.  In your 3 color vial version, I understand why you do not include it.  You already get plenty of card advantage off confidants and ninjas, and by not including it you give yourself a very prime target to name with meddling mage.

You cut Mox Sapphire, I cut Mox Pearl. Weird.

Actually in my 'future' list I accidentally posted 59 cards and forgot to include the sapphire :p  I just fixed it.

I think you should play one Karakas. I played one in UW Vial Fish before I added the Confidants, mostly just to mise against Oath game one. In Fish mirrors it turns Kataki and Isamaru into Blinking Spirits, and can only be answered by Wasteland (which for me is great, if they aren't killing my Factories I'm winning.) Anyways, anything that makes Kataki useful in a Fish mirror is probably good, and your manabase can definetly handle it.

This is a good suggestion.  I thought about Karakas in the past, but it never made final versions because Oath was such a terrible matchup anyways.  That reminds me:  For those who ask, "What do you do against Oath?"  My answer is simple: Run away :p  UW fish has more trouble with oath than the multicolor versions do because your entire strategy relies on playing an agressive game with disruption.  Oath likes playing against decks with purely aggressove strategies.  Multicolor fish variants can often finesse their way out of a loss through a combination of vial/mage or hide/seek and plows.  Uw just plays guys and hopes that it has adequate enough disruption to race oath.  Usually the game one is awful.  Games two-three are significantly improved with seal.  I don't think you want to board out null rod in this match, because it's good against engineered explosives and they rely a decent amount on fast mana.

 

Anyways, good primer, and you beat me to mine (which has been in the works for way too long...) It would be a little awkward for me to post mine right after yours, so I guess I'll wait awhile or get more testing in or something. But, like you said, several people have asked for a primer from me as well, I guess I should get around to finishing one myself...

I stayed away from other versions of fish on purpose.  Mine is meant merely to be a part of fish.  I strongly encourage you to write finish your primer and get it up as soon as possible, because you are definitely the person to write a primer on 3 color vial fish and I think the deck is certainly strong enough to warrant one.

I've said this before, but just to stress it, I don't believe there's a 'correct' version of fish to run.  It all depends on the meta.  You have to be willing to constatnly adapt the deck to whatever is played in your area.  It is possible to have multiple versions of fish be viable at the same time, which is definitely what's going on right now.  That is good for the aspiring fish player, because it lets you try out different versions and pick the one that is most comfortable for you... kind of like a sofa :p

- Dave Feinstein

[dawgie]

Thanks for the primer. U/W Fish is one of the decks that I am happy playing with and I will be playing with for a long time.

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

Hey I played u/w fish with vials at the same waterbury zheng did that also spawned a lot of Aether vial variants as well.

Finally your not running ninja of the deep hours anymore, with that out of the way our lists are getting closer and closer to together.

Threads is very ridiculous, finally other vintage players are picking up on that cards. Its also very good in the SB of other decks.

Great read and very informative, to dave feinstein!

[oneofchaos]

So perhaps in the near future we might be able to use True Believer to stop Oath of Druids which would be bad for oath, and stupid on R&D's part.

[darkmindtone]

Feinstein, have you possibly thought of Envelop in the board?  After discussing the combo match with you, I brainstormed a little while and that card has serious applications in that match and many others.  A 1-mana hard counter for the 3 most important spells the combo player has post-board: Will, Tinker, and Massacre is a bargain.  The fact that it is immune to the 2-3 Misdirection being run in Combo and many Gifts decks these days make it even more appealing (also of note is it's a Blue spell, and that's always good).  The 4th Rod, while good simply for redundancy will most likely fall prey to the multiple mass artifact bounce spells likely to appear.  I'm not saying the 4th Rod's not worth it, but Envelop is definetly an option that should be looked at.  Something along the lines of this could be a possible sideboard:

3 Orim's Chant
3 Seal Of Cleansing
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Envelop
2 Energy Flux
2 Threads Of Disloyalty

I agree though with pretty much everything you said here except for the 3 Stifle.  Like I said earlier, that is a card that you want early, often.  Just like SS ran 4, I personally think rather than the 1 Misdirection, 4 Stifles are recommended to support the 3 Rod, 4 Waste, 1 Stip mana denial plan.  Maybe I'm wrong, but to my way of deckbuilding via consistancy, 4 Stifles (despite their weak late-game applications) appears to be correct. 

[Imsomniac101]

Take a look at this list:

Syracuse SCGV Feb 2005
Lam Phan - 3rd (picked Time Walk)
Bird Sh*t
1 Regrowth
3 Werebear
3 Nimble Mongoose
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
4 Brainstorm
3 Mental Note
1 Gush
3 Stifle
3 Daze
3 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Null Rod
4 Meddling Mage
1 Rushing River

4 Flooded Strand
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria

Sideboard
3 Serenity
4 Energy Flux
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Old Man of the Sea
2 Seasinger

I'm amazed, cuz this list was so ahead of it's time that nobody realized. It predates all the above lists and contained what many thought to be weird choices.

Take a look:
4x Brainstorm
3 colour manabase
3x MisD (a hot favourite currently)
3x Stifle (not sure if this was standard fish fare back in the day)
Heavy vanilla beaters for cheap.

I also believe Zheng drew some inspiration for his winning list from this deck as well.

[Shock Wave]

I'm amazed, cuz this list was so ahead of it's time that nobody realized. It predates all the above lists and contained what many thought to be weird choices.

It's funny that you say that because I mentioned that to my teammates a few weekends ago. This deck marked the inception of the new wave of aggro-control decks. Not only that, but it was ported to Legacy and became one of the best decks in the format. That's prety damn amazing.

Dave: Thanks for the primer. Do you have any comments on the Null Rod issue?

[Scruff]

If I may interject.

Fish does not win because of the powerlevel of its cards.  Lets face it, it only has a few great cards.  If you want to overpower your opponent before they can do anything, this isn't your deck. 

This deck has 3 goals in mind. (1) Use the attack step for victory. (2) Disrupt your opponent with slight advantages(wasteland, Daze) and powerful advantages(Force and Rod) (3) Draw a good amount of cards to ensure these happen.

Brainstorm doesn't do anything, your cards all pretty much have the same powerlevel.  Some are better vs. others in differant matchups, but that is negated by the fact you are still an aggro deck.  Keeping the other cards in steady supply seems better than being able to guess the card you draw in your draw step is either a land or a creature.  Play Goblins if you like that feeling =/. 

Also, the arguement concerning daze.  It is A M A Z I N G agaisn't a bad opponent, since they walk into all the time.  And it is REALLY A M A Z I N G against good opponents.  It throws off math something fierce, and you can even board it out and people will still play like you have it in hand.  I mean whats better than a free time walk?  None the less once they do play around it, yes it is worthless.  But you have a brain, do the math, if it hurts them to pay 1 more, do it.  Thats what you do, make small stabs at your opponent until they lose. 

With the addition of Jotun Grunt, the demand for more creatures seems to have gone down. I would run no more than 18.  The rest of the cards being some mix of card drawing(standstill, curiosity, or even ninja) and disruption.  One crucible seems good too, I mean you just when if you get it and Strip.

This is just one mans opinion, but I feel strongly this is what fish does thrive on.  Once you step outside of it, you aren't playing fish.  Merely a misnamed, misrepresented aggro deck. 

Hello, and welcome to The Mana Drain. In the future, please avoid using all bold-case text. More attention to grammar would also be appreciated. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. -- TAL