UB trix (part 2)

[technogeek5000]

My original list for this deck was very bad at the best (see bottom for list) and with the help of TMD community it got better. Since my break from TMD I have done a good amount of playtesting and here is my current paper list:

Manana source(22):
1 Black Lotus*
6 Island
1 Manana vault
1 Mox Emmerald
1 Mox jet*
1 Mox Pearl*
1 Mox Ruby*
1 Mox Sapphire*
4 Polluted Delta @
2 Underground sea @
3 Watery Grave @

Combo(8):
1 Darksteel Colossus
3 Donate
3 Illusions of Grandeur
1 Tinker

Control(19):
1 Commandeer
4 Duress
4 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
4 Manana Drain*
2 Misdirection

Draw/Tutor(11):
1 Ancestrall Recall*
4 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Consultation @
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal*
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time walk*
1 Vampiric Tutor

Sideboard(15):
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Boomerang
3 Darkblast
1 Duplicant
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Null Rod
2 Tormod's Crypt

*=proxy
@=signed by rob alexander

So this is my new list. It has evolved alot from where it last left off, with the addition of the of the Tinker/ DSC combo. I still left the Illusions/donate combo due to a totall assbeating in a local tournament from meddling mages. I usually get the tinker out turns 1-3 very consistently due to the amount of tutors and draws in the deck. The illusions combo backs this up if the Dsc gets bounced or i can get the tinker through. The mana base is pretty solid with 22 sources and a good part of it doesnt take up the 1 land per turn slot. The deck has 8 counters and 11 others forms of control which gives me alot of permission. With lots of ways to get my combo or protection the deck is pretty consistent. Although the amount of underground sea's are not what i would like them to be because, alas, I am only 14 and dont have a job, I still can almost always cast my black spells with no waiting.

I want to add a few cards and I am contemplating which i should take out. Please share your thoughts:

Cards to take out:
Maindeck
1 Demonic Consultation: Even though it saves me games I do not feel that a single card should cause me a loss even if i am winning a game.

1 Commandeer: I chose this card for my deck because it seemed like a good card, but besides tinker its applications are small.

1 Island: Just because I am thinking about adding a different land.

Sideboard
3 Null rod: I want to take it out because my deck runs 5 moxes and it oftens backfires.

1 Boomerang: I know, this card is shit. I had added it just to fill a sideboard slot.

3 Darkblast: Besides confidants and welders this card doesnt really have a large effect on the game. It also occasionally hurts my combo.

I also have a question: Can a 61 card deck be used in all Vintage tournaments, sanctioned or not. I am seriously considering using 61 card but i wont if its not legal in almost everything.

Cards to put in
Maindeck
1 Lim dul's vault: It wont kill me like consultation will and it can speed up more then just one card. In place of Demonic Consultation

1 Sensei's Divining top: It might not have as much impact as Lim dul's vault but it is cheaper and not color reliant, can be pitched to tinker, and works throughout the game without losing life. Either Lim dul's vault or this in place of Demonic Consultation.

1 Stifle: Because more and more decks are using fetches and it costs 1 mana. In place of Commandeer.

1 Yawgmoth's Will: Just so that my deck will be able to reuse combo pieces if they get countered, also a way to draw and tutor for many cards.

1 Tolarian Academy: Because it will speed up my mana base even more allowing quicker com... I am just not sure if I am running enough artifacts to use it. In place of Island

Sideboard
_ Pithing Needle: Because it is great in any format and will disrupt many decks. Not sure what to replace or how many.

_ Energy Flux: Because it will completely own stax and hurt CS, but i might run to many artifacts.

______________________ Not sure what else to add, Maybe meddling mages if I decide to splash white, (next section) or maybe swords to plowshares to replace darkblast.


I am also contemplating splashing white, this will give me many advantages:

Meddling mage: Because it owns everything and it will give me something to intercept pesky 1/1s, or even something to beat at someone with.

Swords to plowshares: Because it is the best creature removal spell ever, but im worried that it will completely ruin My illusions combo.

Enlightened tutor: Something to fetch my illusions with or to grab a mana source to play a combo.

Balance: Something for my sideboard probably. This will help against fish alot and maybe other decks that can out control me.


So these are my thoughts. Please tell me if you think anything is a good or bad idea and please make some suggestions of your own. Thank you for your time.

TNG 5000,

MANA SOURCE(22):
1 Mox emerald
1 Mox ruby*
1 Mox jet*
1 Mox pearl*
1 Mox sapphire*
1 Black Lotus*
4 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
8 Island

ARTIFACTS(3):
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
1 Panoptic Mirror

CREATURES(8):
4 Bronze Bombshell
2 Spawnbroker
2 Sky Swallower

ENCHANTMENTS(7):
4 Power Artifact
3 Illusions of Grandeur

OTHER(20):
3 Donate
3 Stroke of Genius
1 Invoke the Firemind
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestrall Recall*
1 Time Walk*
4 Force of Will
3 Manadrain*

SIDEBOARD(15):
1 Spawnbroker
4 Red Elemental Blast
1 Invoke the Firemind
4 Blue Elemental Blast
4 null rod
1 chill

[rmn]

It's perfectly legal to play more than 60 cards in every format.  Hence Battle of Wits.  It's just that it's generally considered to be a bad idea based on people's limited knowledge of probability.  This opinion isn't completely universal, though; hence Jamie Wakefield.

Nice deck, it's infinity times better than the first one.  I know it'd be a radical change for you, but I personally always liked the Academy Rector -> Bargain version of Trix.

[Necropotenza]

The first problem you should consider is the lack of a reliable draw engine. The only card advantage you play is Recall and the only way to get it without a card-disadvantage tutor is Demonic Tutor.

It'd be a good thing if you played a minimum of 24-26 mana sources, as most top tier Drain decks have been playing with success. I guess the 2 Sea 3 Grave split is because of your budget, if it isn't, 4 Seas are mandatory with all that black spells wanting to be played 1st turn, not to mention the shock-lands damage really adds when facing Fish decks. This is a possible mana base you might like:

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded strand
4 Underground Sea
5 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy

[technogeek5000]

The first problem you should consider is the lack of a reliable draw engine. The only card advantage you play is Recall and the only way to get it without a card-disadvantage tutor is Demonic Tutor.

It'd be a good thing if you played a minimum of 24-26 mana sources, as most top tier Drain decks have been playing with success. I guess the 2 Sea 3 Grave split is because of your budget, if it isn't, 4 Seas are mandatory with all that black spells wanting to be played 1st turn, not to mention the shock-lands damage really adds when facing Fish decks. This is a possible mana base you might like:

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded strand
4 Underground Sea
5 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy

yah the 3 graves and 2 seas is due to budget, but i am going to see if i can trade the signed graves for seas. I like the mana base except that 1 swamp, since i am probably going to splash white i think it will become a tundra. Also i think the crypt is a little risky, due to the amount of cards in my deck that hit me back (graves, slow tutors, force, fetch) which might also become a tundra. 

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded strand
4 Underground Sea
5 Island
2 Tundra
1 Tolarian Academy

And i have noticed that the trix combo is to mana costly,  I am deciding wether i should take it out or add a interesting card i stumbled upon.

Nightscape familiar 1 B
Creature - zombie
blue and red spells you play cost 1 less to play.

1 B: regenerate nightscape familiar.

Of course i wouldnt add more then 1 or to but this card would make the combo cost 5 mana to play in one turn and 4 mana to play over 2 turns. Also this guy can chump block because he regenerates. But is he vintage competitive, or would he fit in my deck.

Of course i could still just take out the combo and put in familiar, but i would need another win condition and it would be advisable to stay blue because then i would have more fodder for FoW, misdirection, etc...

here is my current list of cards to add that are white:
balance,
enlightened tutor is out because i am most likely taking out the trix,
meddling mage,
swords because when i take out the trix part, it wont disrupt it anymore

What does TMD communtiy think about...

I think it is a very effective substitute to echoing truth. If i use it on a DSC it cant bring mine back, and it can be played for free or you can easily hardcast it.

And lastly if i take out the illusions and donate combo then it wont be trix anymore. Does any1 know what it would be called. BUW control would be my guess

any other suggestion would be appreciated.
 

[wethepeople]

when i saw Snapback in a spoiler i thought it was pretty good, i think i am going to try it out, it seems pretty cool and it would work in my Erayo deck as a free spell or two (if you bounce a Mox) making it flip much easier.

[zeus-online]

Snap back isn't nearly as good as echoing truth, simply because it can ONLY answer creatures, while truth can answer null rods, chalices etc. etc.

/Zeus

[wethepeople]

Snap back isn't nearly as good as echoing truth, simply because it can ONLY answer creatures, while truth can answer null rods, chalices etc. etc.

/Zeus

ah i didnt even notice that, my "Bounce a Mox" plan no longer works. 

I like Hurkyl's Recall even more than Echoing Truth, especially in my deck where you bounce three or four moxen and flip Erayo. The only thing Recall cant bounce is opposing creatures against Aggro, but even versus Workshop and DSC, you can along with all their other shit.

[technogeek5000]

Snap back isn't nearly as good as echoing truth, simply because it can ONLY answer creatures, while truth can answer null rods, chalices etc. etc.

/Zeus

ah i didnt even notice that, my "Bounce a Mox" plan no longer works. 

I like Hurkyl's Recall even more than Echoing Truth, especially in my deck where you bounce three or four moxen and flip Erayo. The only thing Recall cant bounce is opposing creatures against Aggro, but even versus Workshop and DSC, you can along with all their other shit.

yah i am currently running 2 in the sideboard.

Oh and i have heard enough of TMD communities thoughts on snapback... i wont put it in...

Does anyone think that children of korlis and/ or angel's grace would be good in the sideboard or maybe main.

[brianpk80]

yah i am currently running 2 in the sideboard.

Oh and i have heard enough of TMD communities thoughts on snapback... i wont put it in...

Does anyone think that children of korlis and/ or angel's grace would be good in the sideboard or maybe main.

Yes.  If you run Children of Korlis, you can take this deck into a more Fish oriented direction, and see how it plays out.  Add Children, Dark Confidant, Meddling Mage, Ninja of the Deep Hours, Necropotence (if you can field BBB), Library of Alexandria, Yawgmoth's Will, and maybe a Zur's Weirding and some other UBW Fish favorites for good measure.  You might find that you can include a single Tendrils of Agony, not as a win condition, but as a minor means of disruption or even as a "surprise" sideboard maneuver.  Remember, a non-lethal Tendrils with storm at 4 or 5 makes a 16 or 20 point life swing that will often be lethal after the critters finish up the dirty work, and keep you in the game by fortifying your own life resource.  And with all your life gaining tricks, a single Hatred in the sideboard v. the appropriate decks might be a real showstopper.   

To start, I'd suggest losing Tinker + DSC, 2 Misdirections, 1 Donate, 1 Illusions, 2 Echoing Truth, Mystical Tutor, Commandeer, Imperial Seal, and Demonic Consultation.  Use the proxy from Seal as a Library or Underground Sea instead.  What this will do is give you a both draw engine, flexibility, a clock, and a multiplicity of victory conditions.  You won't be reliant on Tinker or Donate to win, so instead of sacrificing card advantage to gain your combo pieces, you gradually build up card advantage with Ancestral, Confidant, Ninja, Necro, and Library and win with creatures, using your combo as a distraction.  This theory is similar to how Bomberman operates.  And if you pull off the combo, then hey, you win.  You'll be at a distinct advantage post sideboard because your opponent won't be able to rely on any set strategies; they will be torn between oversideboarding against small creatures and oversideboarding against enchantment based victories.  A lot of the above cards also have to leave the deck because they will make your Dark Confidants kill you.  And note that Illusions and Children is a pretty strong combo on its own.  20 life should buy you a lot of time against anything, especially when you're taking the card advantage route over card disadvantage tutors.  Then adjust the mana base accordingly, give it a few whirls on MWS, see what works and if you like it, then you're set.

-BPK

[Shmn]

A few things:

1. Manabase

As your combo relies on mostly colorless mana, including the best accelerants is advised. You are lacking Sol Ring and Mana Crypt, which I would definitely include. Off-color Moxen, on the other hand provide only little acceleration when your ability to refill your hand is weak. Hence, I would replace them.

Since you also play black, why not play Dark Rituals? They don't provide you mana over several turns, but they allow for a quick setup of the combo early.

2. Card choices

- Yawgmoth's Will is arguably the most broken card in Vintage. It's hard to think of a reason it should not be included; especially if you add Dark Rituals.

- Stifles not only help disrupt your opponent, they are also great in manipulating your Illusions: you can stifle the Cumulative Upkeep or leaves play ability, allowing you more mana or a supply of life when you just can't cope without it.

- Echoing Truth is good, but you should consider Wipe Away for two reasons: it has a different casting cost which is good against Chalice Of The Void, and it can't be countered or responded to, which is a considerable asset. One of the best applications for bounce in Trix is forcing your Illusions to leave play once donated before your opponent manages to win or get around it. I recommend playing 2 and 2. I should also mention that Chain Of Vapor is another good bounce, but less useful as you don't want to play it when you have not yet donated your inflated ego.

- Fact Or Fiction is delicious with powerful colorless mana accelerants such as the almighty Mana Drain. As the restricted one-off it is, you should have no reason to omit this card. As your opponent rarely knows what you hold in your hand, choosing how to divide the stacks becomes difficult for them if a combo piece or several are involved. FoF works great as both digging for quality and drawing for advantage.

- Commandeer offers riches, but more often than not fails to deliver. In a two color deck having the resources to cast it is not likely enough. Additionally, you don't want to get rid of your blue cards. You'd rather counter the spell than have a random spell that would benefit your opponent's strategy but rarely yours. As such, you will most likely notice pitching it to FoW than actually casting it. I recommend replacing it with FoF.

- Impulse has not seen much play recently outside High Tide variants, most notably Solidarity, but it may well deserve a spot in Trix. Slots for additional cards are rare in a two color version, though, so there may not be room for spontaneous digging of this kind. It deserved to be mentioned, however.

3. Additional suggestions

As an additional way to get DSC into play, or save a mana from Illusions, you could play Show And Tell. With many maindeck bounce spells, even random threats dropping could be dealt with. If played, two sounds the best amount to me.

I would also like to say that I think that the best philosophy for a Trix is more combo-oriented, not control. Tutors and browsing over a drawing engine. And I have to admit, with 4 FoW, 4 Mana Drain and 4 Duress, disruption and enforcement are already aplenty to combat control.

[chrissss]

I have been playing trix almost since the deck came out. It is a lot of fun, but times change, and trix just isnt what it used to be.

Whatever deck you build, tendrils will almost always be better. I tried so many decks, and none worked.
now that Trickbind and children of korlis are out, trix got another beating.

Also, rector, cabal therapy trix are a lot better than the version you made here. I would recomend making a version like that instead of this version. Duress/cabal therapy is the only thing that gives trix a winning chance against other decks.

[technogeek5000]

ok i have not been able to respond in a few days since my parents dont like me on during the week but i have made a very large change to the deck,

First off it is no longer Trix, It is now BUW Control.

I took out all the illusions and dontes, plus consultation, some other things to.

I added:

1 yawgmoth's will
2 Thirst for knowledge
1 sensei's diving top
2 tundra
1 flooded strand
1 Library of alexandria
1 balance
4 unfortunately i cant decide, it needs another win condition.

2 Angel's grace (sb)
3 Meddling mage (sb)
2 swords to plowshares (sb)
1 massacre (sb)

Thirst for knowlegde: I added this card because it helps to clea my hand of a unwanted colossus, and it is very affordable to my deck.

Sensei's divining top: great to keep my hand full of control and is great with library

Balance: To stop EBA which is a very popular deck out now, and since the wording on the card is buried it doesnt touch my colossus.

Library: great opening hand card and adds to my mana source.

Yawg's will: A way to bring back countered cards and is very deadly late game

Meddling mage: Just because it is good against pretty much everydeck out

Swords: another tool to help deal with the rise of EBA

Angel's grace: Longs worst nightmare

Here is my goal list:

Mana source(23):
5 Moxen
1 Lotus
1 Mana vault
4 island
1 Flooded strand
1 LOA
4 polluted Delta
2 Tundra
4 Underground sea

Combo(2):
1 tinker
1 DSC

Utility/ broken(7):
4 Echoing truth
1 Balance
1 Yawgmoth's will
1 Time walk

Control(14):
4 Duress
4 Force of will
4 Mana drain
2 Misdirection

Draw(11):
1 Ancestrall Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Demonic tutor
1 Mystical tutor
1 Sensei's divining top
2 Thirst for knowledge
1 Vampiric tutor

Blank(4):
4 _______

Sideboard(15):
2 Angel's grace
1 Blue elemental blast
1 Duplicant
2 Hurkyl's recall
1 Hydroblast
1 Massacre
3 Meddling mage
2 Swords to plowshares
2 Tormod's crypt

Note: The deck has 61 cards... this is intentionall.

The 61st card was LOA, i added it because it is another mana source as a few people suggested i had, and it draws cards for you to make up for the now harder to get 1 of cards in my deck.

I will be taking this deck to TMC open, hope to see lots of competition.

[technogeek5000]

I decided that one of the blanks should be a trickbind. This would help the deck keep a better control role.

oh and since I realized that angel's grace  doesnt stop long, but i do need to stop stax so i put in energy flux

Now all i need is a win condition for the deck and it is most likely complete. I was thinking morphling would be good but it might be to expensive for modern vintage.

What are everyones thoughts on this

[Tragedy]

I see that you are running 1 blue blast, red is not as popular as it was besides stax so i woud take it out.

Oh and if your looking for a win condition, karn silver golem isnt to bad... just a thought