[Type 4] Yawgmoth's Agenda and the ACC Rule

[Mr. Type 4]

Ok, so here's a gray area in the ACC rule -

We play Alternate casting costs don't count as your one spell per turn, as per our house rules of Type 4.  Yawgmoth's Agenda says that you can only play one spell per turn.  SO we come to the dilemma - does the "drawback" on Yawgmoth's Agenda actually have any relevance to Type 4?  Does it cause you to lose some privlidges granted by the regular Type 4 rules?  OR is the drawback completely redundant with the T4 rules, so it has no real effect?

Consider the following:

-In "real" Magic you wouldn't be cast two spells if Agenda was on the table reguardless of weather or not there are ACCs involved. 

-On the other hand, the Type 4 rule works "as if Arcane Lab was in play" and Agenda has the same effect, so it seems like it might be okay to still use your ACCs.

-What about custom cards like allow you to play additional spells (like Decree of the Creator and Really Good Looking Tutor)? 

Right now, I'm leaning towards the ruling that Adgenda just redundant and you can still play extra cards per turn using ACCs.  What do you guys think? 

[Nefarias]

We have always played that the Agenda negates the ACC rules. I think that our reasoning was that if a card breaks the Comp Rules, then the card wins out as per normal Magic rules. The ACC Rule, to us, is part of the Type 4 Comp Rules, so when a card contradicts what the Comp Rules say you can do, the card wins out.

That, and we were sick of losing to it when someone got out a Fist of Suns with no back-up other than the Agenda.

[Mr. Nightmare]

I'm of the mindset that Agenda wins out over ACCs.  To that end, although there is the "1 spell per turn" rule, if Arcane Lab was in your stack and in play, that would negate the ACC rule, as well.

Random other note:  Custom cards - is there a comprehensive list somewhere?  They seem interesting and useful.

[Mr. Type 4]

Interesting- so far it seems like most people are on the side of Agenda actually HAVING the drawback.  Has this situation ever occurred in a game anyone has played?  In my experience Agenda never resolves or lasts long enough for this situation to arise.

Still, there's some serious combo potential with Agenda if you have a way to load the graveyard (Loaded Agenda graveyard + Teferi = pretty good, and that's just scratching the surface).  Do you guys play with Read the Runes....?  I don't think that allowing you to still use ACC's with Agenda in play is unfair for the most part (although the Fist of Suns action mentioned above is pretty nasty), but what is important is which way makes the most sense to the players. 

@Custom Cards-

I think there is a thread in the card creation forum for Type 4 cards, except I can never seem to find it.  Someday when I know where it is, I'll have to post the images of cards we use in Pittsburgh, but for people lookig to spice things up, I believe there's lots of good stuff in there.  The only thing about custom cards is that they are often avoided by new players, but they are great for use if you have a regular play group. 

I'd say Decree of the Creator and Really Good Looking Tutor are the most well known custom Type 4 cards. 

[RaZe]

For my stack playing using ACC does not count towards your spell per turn. Arcane lab or Agenda, doesn't matter. So far, no one has really abused Agenda, much less set it up their gy. The fact that you have a one sided nether void is a pretty strong drawback, even more so after coldsnap, with the Recover mechanic. For my stack, the only way to fill the gyard is via Compulsion. And as for stacking your gyard, I think Graverobber would be a much more broken card as you can always EoT->Quicksilver Amulet Graverobber -> Flip and Steal everyone's creatures FTW.

[Mr. Type 4]

Right now, I wouldn't say Agenda is overpowered at all, in fact, I'd argue it's underpowered.  It seems like RaZe's experience with the card has been pretty similar to mine.  Getting your cards removed from the game DOES suck (it did take me a few minutes to realize that RaZe meant to say "a one-sided Planar Void", and I tried to understand why it would matter if spells cost 3 extra mana, lol).  Committing to a strategy that abuses the Agenda is difficult - you can fill your gy, but it's far too easy to lose the Agenda and lose your well crafted plans, as protecting the Agenda is particularly difficult - even more so with Split Second in the mix.

From a power-level standpoint, it seems that it would be better to ignore the "one-spell per turn" clause, just so an Agenda strategy is feaseable.  If I load my graveyard, play Agenda and you play Naturalize on the same turn, it will be pretty annoying if I'm holding Force of Will and can't use it. 

I feel that the more important issue is what makes the most sense, however, I'm not sure that the answer to that is clear.  Perhaps the fact that Agenda is underpowered is a good enough reason to allow you to continue to use your ACCs. 

Do any of you guys play with cards that could unlock the power of the Agenda? I have Survival of the Fittest and Read the Runes (which has great potential, you could read for a bunch of cards, drawing the agenda, keep a hand of cards you need to help get it into play and then Agenda with a full yard).  My friend Brian plays with Undead Gladiator - is that guy too broken?

Yawgmoth's Agenda doesn't even come close to Nezumi Graverobber.

Nezumi Graverobber is absurd - it's the most broken card that I ever allowed in my stack, and it was greatly beyond the power level.  Hell, Withered Wretch isn't a bad card!

Rule of Thumb for Type 4: If you add a card to your stack and it seems like the entire game centers around getting it into play, it might be too far above the average power-level.