[Deck/Primer] Dread Return Ichorid - aka Cookie Monster

[The Atog Lord]

being black in the deck does so much because it ... counts for ashen and shadow

Ashen and Nether don't discriminate. Creates of any color are welcome to count towards returning them from the dead.

[nataz]

Honestly I don't think I've ever had a problem getting to whatever the lethal point was for Ghoul out of like 40-50 games as long at the 'big guy' was 6 power or more. The big power guy is only ever going to come up if you only got to dredge like twice.

Has for me, in real games. Happens against decks that can both block, and waste your lands. Joten grunt fish and WS aggro are the two decks that come to mind.

That said, I see the obvious merit in runing something like Bolas. He would be better against a deck that isn't putting any board pressure on you. Thing is, I'm less worried about that match up then I am about the tempo match up.

@ atog lord,
Brain fart

[President Skroob]

I have things to say on a couple topics.

First of all, I must echo the sentiments that Gemstone Caverns is not good, especially in the maindeck. To be played, Gemstone Caverns must be a 4-of simply due to its nature, and that raises difficult questions. If you give it a land slot, that puts true colored sources down to the 2-3 range, which is a dangerous place to play. If you add it on top of the normal 6-7 colored sources, you're pretty land heavy. In my opinion, the best decision I made with my Ichorid build was cutting from 10 lands down to 6. That is the space problem. The second problem with Gemstone Caverns is how to approach the play or draw question. I agree, the chances of one being on the draw once in every round of a tournament are quite high, but this isn't enough of an occurence to justify a mainboard slot, and I would argue not a sideboard slot, either. There are many cards that wreck Ichorid's day, and the sideboard is an important thing to escape those. Using 4 slots for such a minor advantage seems silly. Back to the idea of maindecking, if you maindeck them, and choose to draw instead of play, it's a truly bad decision of epic proportions. Making the choice to draw is essentially being on the play but using your turn to say "Land, go." Good Vintage first turns rarely play that way except in control decks. Unmask and especially Chalice of the Void are much better to play before your opponent has had a turn. Once your opponent has put down all his opening Moxen, a Chalice of the Void at zero has lost most of its use. Choosing to play allows you to drop your land AND play your disruption, and after you do so on your second turn you will be almost the exact same board position you would be at if you had chosen to draw and put a Gemstone Caverns in on turn 0, but you will have had the added bonus to use some disruption before your opponent had a chance to do anything about it.

If you want further explanation, I can lay out gamestates for you with example hands, but I hope you see my point.


My second point is based on the idea of the land count of this deck concerning Putrid Imp. As I mentioned above, six to seven lands is ideal for this deck. Artifact mana is your own decision (I play Lotus, Petal, Chrome, and Jet because I play this like a mana junkie) based on how you play it. Six lands will usually give you a colored mana with which to play your utility spells, including Putrid Imp, and it won't bog you down with excess mana at all.

And finally, I would like to note that I don't agree with the poster who said that this is a deck where Lotus is bad. Lotus facilitates incredible control plays on the first turn, and it can really wreck the opponent's day when it pops up. In a deck full of low mana disruption, it allows you to play multiple disruptive pieces first turn for added effect. Several times I've been glad to power out a Cabal Therapy or Putrid Imp along with Chalice for 0 and Chalice for 1. In a match I played last weekend I Unmasked an opponent, then used hardcast Cabal Therapy (Mox Jet showed up for me, too) and used Black Lotus to hardcast a Stinkweed Imp and sac it to flashback Cabal Therapy first turn, thus doing a triple-threat on my opponent's hand AND putting a dredger in the yard to go to town with.

In short, I heavily favor the artifact mana because it allows me early hard-hitting disruptive plays, but I play a more disruptive Ichorid than most so they play into my gameplan. Whether to spend your first turn setting up your win or disrupting the opponent's win is a personal choice, but I would argue that the power afforded by Black Lotus is free disruption that will never subtract from your ability to set up your own win.

[wuaffiliate]

Match-ups

Fair Matches:

-- Bomberman --
What makes this matchup bad is the recurable Tormod's Crypt.  As I said in the beginning, the deck can most likely play around 1 crypt, but 2 are just too strong... Never mind infinite.  If Bomberman gets an early lead, then its hard to catch up.  But ultimately they are a slower deck then pure combo.  I'll say that originally, and on paper, bomberman was in the "Favorable matches" section.  But in Tournament Testing, the results were about even.  So to err on the side of caution I'll say that Bomberman is an Even match.
Post Board - 4Leylines, 3 Grudges.  Out come duress (but again, unmask stays in) and probably a Golgari and Ashen, and the darkblasts.

I've been playing a decent ammount of test games against bomberman with my builds of this deck (one with 4 LotV MD and one without LotV MD). I've found with the latter that against a good player it was extremely hard to even win a game. Needles, strips, crypts just wreck me and they all come down far far too early. I found that any single but usually ending with a combonation of those let them gain enough ground to setup their recursion engine. I would say that most games that were won by me were either drawing/mulling into the nuts and a 3rd or 4th turn heavilly disrupted kill or by simply sideboarding.

All of that was with the non LotV maindeck of course. LotV maindeck makes game 1 against a HUGE portion of the viable metagame lose alot of power. Of course it's highly a metagame call, but it is very safe to say any metagame where the competition is stiff, you will love to see LotV maindeck.

By the way, the deck is extremely addictive to play it should be called CrackRock.dec

[Harlequin]

Your opening hand + cards drawn off Bazaar + xsmall number of cards you actually have to draw when you are unable to Dredge must have one black mana source to activate Ashen Ghoul, or you're running just Ichorids and Nether Shadows (and the better lists I've seen in this thread aren't running the
latter).
...
You're running 4 Ashen Ghouls. I trust you plan on using them even though I have enough time getting a black mana source out of my opening hand with 4 Bayou 4 Tomb 1 Jet 1 Chrome. If you didn't run an 8 card combo, you could have room for a mana-base, but I don't think I've gotten anywhere with that argument.

When running 6 mana, the probablity of hitting a mana in 9 cards is 59%.  thats a 7 card hand on the draw + 1 bazaar... which itself is unlikely.  Now lets take a 5 card hand on the play with a bazaar.  The probability of at least 1 mana is less than 50% (Prob of 1:6 is 48% to be exact).  So saying you "must" have mana is an overstatement.  I would say that in roughly 5-6 games out of ten the deck has black mana in play on turn 2. 

Also as I have said before, Ichorid and Nethershadows are the backbone of the deck.  They are the meat and potatoes.  Ashen Ghoul is a bit more of a "plan B"/fuel type of card.   The deck has a good record of wins with no mana in play.  So in that way it is similar to manaless ichorid.  However in 5-6 out of 10 games, the deck affords you the luxory of black mana.  Then you have a wider selection of outs, abilites, and creatures to sacrifice.

Let me try and break it out:

Ichorid (or Ichorid + DR + LaqChamp): +Ashen ghouls, +more mana, +putrid, -neither shadows, -disruption. 
Limitations -- needs to win with 3/1 beats, dependant on having mana in play, less maindeck disruption.
Benefits -- more focused gameplan,  Harder to disrupt, cares less about what the opponent is doing, potentially a turn faster.

Colorless Ichorid: -Ashen ghouls, -all mana, -putrid, +shadows, +other free utility
Limitations -- No plan-B,  Limited Sideboard options, limited answers to opponent's threats.
Benefits -- focus, speed, additional discard outlets.

Dread Return Ichorid:  +shadows, +pently of disruption, (-)some mana, +ashen ghouls
Limitations -- agresive mulligans, Likely the slowest of the 3 decks, dependance on bazaar for discard outlet, primary win could be considered a "lynch-pin."
Benefits -- can win with out mana... but has a Plan-B, heavy turn 1-2 disruption, can answer most forms of common maindeck/board threats.


I'm not sure how to put my point more simiply about the 8 card win condition ...
with sutured ghoul, you really need a 7 card set up.  you need 3 returnable creatures + 1 dread return + 1 sutured ghoul + 1 dragon's breath + 1 meat creature (1 meat creature + the 3 guys you dread returned, + some stinkies/ashens or what not will be lethal).  All of these cards need to be in your graveyard, and all of them are free (manawise) to cast/utilize.  Now for all the 1-cards, running 2 in the deck is most sound because of serum powder, and the generaly problem of "If the 1 sutured ghoul is the last card in the deck then I can't combo" arguement.  So were up to 8 of what you lable as "combo cards" takeing up space in the deck.   However, my arguement is that they add up to a -mana free- wincondition.  A win condition that can beat a turn 2 Tinker, can overpower Vigilance Angles, and can stomps out grunts like they were chimpmunks.  The combo requires nothing more than to be in your graveyard to work.  Mathematically, when you've got 75-90% of your deck in the yard... that condition is easily met. 

If your running Imp, Ichorid, and Ashen, + DR->LaqChamp as your only win condition... I see no advantage.  You loose the independace from mana AND the ability to beat turn 2&3 angels and basically loose to a turn 2-3 grunt (and creature heavy decks with blockers).  And you open youself up to being dependant on your mana (meaning that a wasteland targeting your bayou will shut you down worse than one targeting your bazaar).  Additionally, you have one of three possible problems with your keepable hand requirements: 1) you mulligian more agressivly because you need mana+bazaar even though you've added mana to the deck your chance to draw mana+bazaar is nothing to bet the farm on, or 2) you weaken your opening hands by shifting attention to mana cards and away from bazaar, 3) you keep your attention on bazaar and have truely dead cards (namely imps).

I have already conceded that if you draw Artifact mana + bazaar + imp that is ~faster~ than bazaar + mana + ashen ghoul.... but I don't think you've gained anything but speed.  and you've sacrificed the ability to beat certain very popular cards (oath, tinker, grunt).

@hq
I can wax poetic about "if you cut this, then that... and if you cut that, then this.."  But you have the advantage of hideing behind theorical changes.  It means that if I say "It weaker because you cut that" then you can always just respond with "noob, I didn't cut that, I cut this!"  Its extremely easy to argue a theorical change vrs a concrete decklist....

Show me a list starting with my list of in's and out's and I'll tell you if/why I think its weaker. 

lastly:

For Caverns to be a solid turn zero play, I could have Putrid Imp, 1 of 2 instants, Cabal Therapy in hand, work up to a Chalice @ 1[/u], Ashen Ghoul going to the graveyard (and most likely recurred turn 2), etc...

If you think a chalice for 1 is the right play in this deck, then you truely don't understand it.  The strongest play a deck can make against this is Meddling mage nameing cabal therepy or chalice @ 1.  that truely weakens this deck.  Playing chalice for 1 is like oath playing turn 1 lotus land chalice for 2....

Nichol Bolas, the hand-killing horror guy... they are all not very good because cabal therepy is already going to to take anything of signifigance.  when you cast dreaded return, they should have no castable cards in hand.  so grabing something that hurts there hand is likely not revelivant. 

[policehq]

You misunderstand "must."

I'm saying six lands is bad because in order to activate Ashen Ghoul, the prerequisite play is a black mana source, meaning you must play one.

-hq

[meadbert]

I played Manaless Ichorid both days at SCG this weekend. You can check the SCG thread for info.  I have drawn several conclusions.  I really like Cookie Monster while goldfishing but against opponents Petrified Field is one of the best cards in the whole deck.  If you are going to mull to Bazaar and rely on it heavily then Petrified Field is really good.  Next Gigapede is great for the same reason.  If Bazaar is wasted or Needled the Gigapede keeps you dredging for 6 a turn while Darkblast can cause you to fizzle.  Dredgers in general are important.  I lost 2 games because I did not have a dredger in hand.  Once I kept a hand of either 6 or 7 on the draw and my opponent dropped turn 1 Needle.  I never drew a dredger to discard.  Another time I had the sick hand of double Leyline and double Bazaar versus Uba Stax and he dropped Turn 1 Uba which locked me out since I could never discard a dredger.  To me Thug is really a must since he is black and he dredges for 4.

I really like Ashen Ghouls.  They are great.  I just cannot find room for the mana needed to support them.

Leyline was amazing for me all day long.  Also Ancient Grudge was really good out of the board.  If I change manaless Ichorid it will be to add Ancient Grudge and Riftstone Portal to the main.

Being able to play Petrified Field turn 2, tap it to produce g and Ancient Grudge a mox is really good.  Then you can get strip or Ancient Grudge something else the next turn.

[Gabethebabe]

Nicol Bolas looks like a pretty bad creature to play, since it requires also Dragon Breath to be effective and even then only lives one turn.

I've played some test matches with the maindeck proposed in this deck and guess what, every time he had a t1 wasteland my deck rolled over and died horribly. This deck is unplayable in a wasteland infested metagame, your first bazaar really needs to stick.

[President Skroob]

Let me try and break it out:

Ichorid (or Ichorid + DR + LaqChamp): +Ashen ghouls, +more mana, +putrid, -neither shadows, -disruption. 
Limitations -- needs to win with 3/1 beats, dependant on having mana in play, less maindeck disruption.
Benefits -- more focused gameplan,  Harder to disrupt, cares less about what the opponent is doing, potentially a turn faster.

Colorless Ichorid: -Ashen ghouls, -all mana, -putrid, +shadows, +other free utility
Limitations -- No plan-B,  Limited Sideboard options, limited answers to opponent's threats.
Benefits -- focus, speed, additional discard outlets.

Dread Return Ichorid:  +shadows, +pently of disruption, (-)some mana, +ashen ghouls
Limitations -- agresive mulligans, Likely the slowest of the 3 decks, dependance on bazaar for discard outlet, primary win could be considered a "lynch-pin."
Benefits -- can win with out mana... but has a Plan-B, heavy turn 1-2 disruption, can answer most forms of common maindeck/board threats.

I think that problems are coming up in this thread because there are numerous viable builds of Ichorid that can be made, and players from all courts are sort of trying to pull it in their direction. I don't even think your list above covers the different directions this deck can go into.

I think Ichorid is a pretty unique deck in that, while there is a core set of cards that the deck must have, more than half of it is open territory for customization. To discuss all of them in a single thread would be like trying to encompass the entire idea of "Fish" in a single thread and try to figure out which list is best. Everyone who is bringing ideas to this thread brings with them different merits and also different drawbacks, but they all are also taking the deck itself in different directions.

The problems are coming about because this specific thread is about Harlequin's aggro/combo build of Ichorid, and most, if not all, the suggestions I've seen are sort of pulling it away from what it wants to do: namely, set up the graveyard and swing once and for all with a big bad creature.

[meadbert]

Cookie monster is great against Control and Combo-Control.  Other than wasteland and graveyard hate it is nearly impossible to disrupt.  It achieves its goal and in the New England meta it might be the best version.  In my meta wasteland is fairly common so I must build my deck accordingly.

[Blauw]

How do you guys deal with wastelands? Making sure that you get the bazaar back (LftL? petrifiel field?) Or are you more focussed on protecting the BoB with needles? Or do you just make sure that you have other BoB effect's (breakthrough, carefull study).

I tried making a mono-black ichorid deck but the deck was too slow when a wasteland pops your BoB in the first turns. I think the best way is to sideboard pithing needle and try to have additional mainboard BoB effects in your deck. I chose to add 4 carefull studies. These are the only mainboard blue cards (not even ancestral , because I cannot find any room). what would you prefer in mainboard: 4 leylines or (2x breakthrough, 1x ancestral recall, 1x crop rotation) or other cards.

At this moment, i'm playing this decklist:

Land:
4x Bazaar of Baghdad
4x Gemstone Mine
4x City of Brass
1x Mox jet
1x Black Lotus
1x Chrome Mox

Disruption
4x leyline of the void
4x cabal therapy
4x unmask
4x chalice of the void

Dredge:
4x Grave-troll
4x Stinkweed Imp
2x Galgori thug

Utilities:
4x Carefull study
3x Putrid Imp
1x Dread Return
1x Vampiric Tutor

Creatures:
4x Nether Shadow
2x Ashen Ghoul
4x Ichorid

Sideboard:
1x Imperial Seal (more chances to fetch you hate cards 2-3 game)
3x Null Rod (doubts because of 2cc)
4x Pithing Needle
2x Ray of Revelation
2x Life from the Loam (good against LD but also 2cc)
3x stifle (good against Wastelands + Crypts)

[meadbert]

I would never needle a Wasteland.  If I have Needle Mana up it is probably turn 2 which means I already got 2 Bazaar activations and that is all I need.  At that point my fear is Tormod's Crypt so I would needle that.

I find that Petrified Field is the best way to defend against Wasteland.

Also you can just win without Bazaar.  Ashen Ghouls helps this along.  So do dredgers and Gigapede.

[cssamerican]

How do you guys deal with wastelands? Making sure that you get the bazaar back (LftL? petrifiel field?) Or are you more focussed on protecting the BoB with needles? Or do you just make sure that you have other BoB effect's (breakthrough, carefull study).

I prefer studies. You can run it maindeck so you have a way to fight wastelands game one, and if you don't see wastelands the studies are still really good. LftL seems really slow, Stifle and Needles require you to play a non-bazaar land first so I am not too high on them either. Petrified Field seems like it would be slow as well, one turn to play the field then one turn to replay the wasted land; however, in a land light deck like Manaless Ichorid it is probably the best you have.

[meadbert]

If you have Petrified Field and your Bazaar is wasted then it is the same or better than it being Stifled.  Each only stops 1 Bazaar activation and Stifle can stop the first activation so you can't dredge on turn 2 while Wasteland cannot.  Running Careful Studies and Brainstorms help too, but then you open yourself up to vulnerability from counter magic.

Also, while wasting a Bazaar only stops one Bazaar activation it is a huge tempo loss for your opponent.  If an opponent playing U/W Fish drops a first turn Wasteland then that means you no longer have to worry about turn 2 Meddling Mage or Jotun Grunt.  Heck he might even end up mana shafted.

Usually if I have Petrified Field in my opponening hand then I am hoping it gets wasted just like when I have double Chalice I hope the first gets countered.

[cssamerican]

If you have Petrified Field and your Bazaar is wasted then it is the same or better than it being Stifled.  Each only stops 1 Bazaar activation and Stifle can stop the first activation so you can't dredge on turn 2 while Wasteland cannot.  Running Careful Studies and Brainstorms help too, but then you open yourself up to vulnerability from counter magic.

Also, while wasting a Bazaar only stops one Bazaar activation it is a huge tempo loss for your opponent.  If an opponent playing U/W Fish drops a first turn Wasteland then that means you no longer have to worry about turn 2 Meddling Mage or Jotun Grunt.  Heck he might even end up mana shafted.

Usually if I have Petrified Field in my opponening hand then I am hoping it gets wasted just like when I have double Chalice I hope the first gets countered.

Turn 1
Me
I play Bazaar and activate it discarding a couple of trolls an a Ichorid then I pass the turn
Opponent
He plays wasteland and destroys my bazaar.
Turn 2
Me
Upkeep I can't return the Ichorid because I have no black creatures to remove.
I dredge a troll for six on my drawstep and reveal no black creatures.  I play Field and pass the turn.
Opponent
He plays a land and passes the turn.
Turn 3
Me
I once again miss dredging on my upkeep (This would not have happened if Bazaar got Stifled instead of Wasted; therefore, wastlands are worse then stifle regardless if your are running Petrified Fields or not), so I can't return the Ichorid to play. I dredge the other troll on my draw step and reveal two stinkweeds, one Ashen Ghoul, one Ichorid, and two junk cards. I sacrifice field and put bazaar into play. I activate Bazaar and dredge two stinkweeds for ten and reveal a bunch of Ghouls, Putrid Imps, and therapies.Then I discard the two trolls and a stinkweed.
Opponent
Plays another land, cast Jotun Grunt and passes the turn

Synopsis
At the end of turn three I have dredged for 22 cards and I have done 0 points of damage. My opponent has a 4/4 graveyard eater on the board, I can dredge my entire deck in the next couple of turns if I wanted to. However, I have yet to put into play a color mana source so it will be at least turn 5 before I can return a Ghoul.

Turn 1
Me
I play Bazaar and activate it discarding a couple of trolls an a Ichorid then I pass the turn
Opponent
He plays wasteland and destroys my bazaar.
Turn 2
Me
Upkeep I can't return the Ichorid because I have no black creatures to remove.
I dredge a troll for six on my drawstep and reveal no black creatures.  I play City of Brass and cast Careful Study. I dredge a troll for six in which time I reveal two stinkweeds, one Ashen Ghoul, one Ichorid, and two junk cards. I dredge for another five. I then discard two trolls and pass the turn.
Opponent
He plays a land and passes the turn.
Turn 3
Me
On my upkeep I return two Ichorid while removing two black creatures, and I return Ashen Ghoul. During my draw step I dredge for six returning a Troll to my hand. At this point my graveyard has a couple of therapies in it. I swing for 9 points of damage. In my second main phase I flashback a Cabal Therapy naming Brainstorm. It misses, but I see my opponent is holding a Jotun Grunt. I flashback another therapy naming Jotun Grunt. 
Opponent
Plays another land, cast a 2/2 creature, and passes the turn.

Synopsis
At the end of turn three I have dredged for 23 cards and I have done 9 points of damage. My opponent has a 2/2 creature on the board whose abilities likely don’t effect me, I can dredge six for at least one more turn via the drawstep, and I have black mana in play to return a Ghoul.

Obviously the careful study hand looks bad if it gets forced, but the petrified field hand looks just as bad if your opponent has a second wasteland. I think this is a good example of what I said earlier in that the fields are a little slower, but again I don't think they are bad. In fact, I thin they are the best option if you aren't running many colored sources.

[policehq]

Gigapede
This card is great! I used it in mana-less Ichorid simply for Wasteland protection, but its significant power of 6 is strong in conjunction with Sutured Ghoul.

Gigapede also replaces the need for Putrid Imp as it is not picky on being in your opening hand itself or mana being in your opening hand. It just needs to be in the graveyard, and you can resume dredging.

Once I stopped using Putrid Imp, I wanted to cut Ashen Ghouls for Nether Shadows because Harlequin has already explained the nuisance created by looking for an opening hand of Bazaar + Mana. Without an early mana play, Ashen Ghoul is just Ichorid food.

I had dropped the number of Dredge creatures I ran for a while but now have resumed running at least 10. I don't feel comfortable mulliganing into low numbers for a Bazaar while there might take a few turns to find a Dredge creature. So now I'm playing 4 Golgari Thug as well. They are Black creatures for Unmask and Ichorid.

I toyed with Grave-Shell Scarabs since they serve the purpose of being black creatures that Dredge and have a notable power/toughness when reanimating Sutured Ghoul, but I couldn't find room for them in the end.

I like Petrified Field a lot, and now that I am running it, I have added 1 Strip Mine.

So this is what all came out of it: Manaless Return

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Petrified Field
1 Strip Mine

4 Serum Powder

4 Ichorid
4 Nether Shadow

4 Gigapede
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Unmask

2 Dragon Breath
2 Dread Return
1 Laquatus's Champion
2 Sutured Ghoul

SB:
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Bayou
4 Emerald Charm
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Pithing Needle

This is leaning heavily towards Harlequin's fundamentals of the deck:
-Free disruption
-Free win condition(s)
-Free anti-hate (Chalice of the Void vs. Tormod's Crypt)

I still have Laquatus's Champion over Devouring Strossus because I never dropped him making changes, and he has won me many games where Sutured Ghoul and Devouring Strossus wouldn't.

Compared to the last list I posted (B/G with Putrid Imp, Ashen Ghoul, just Laquatus's Champion as reanimation), this has an average of .5 turns faster kills, at least.

-hq

EDIT: Thanks. I was grouping the cards according to their purpose in the deck, and Serum Powder is kind of standalone.

While I'm editing, I want to add that I might try 1 Riftstone Portal in place of 1 Petrified Field to maximize the potential of Chalice @ 1.

[Tobi]

@policehq This is a list of 56 cards. I assume there are 4 Serum Powder missing...

[bebe]

Well I've done some testing of my own. Perhaps I'm just unlucky but I did not find I was finding Leyline often enough in my opening hand to make it a main deck staple. Ancient grudge on the other hand was too useful with Portals and Fields not to main deck as a staple. I fully understand the argument in favour of Leylines but in the end I relegated them to the side. 
With this in mind I tend to favour a build without Ashen Ghouls and without Sutured Ghouls ... its ghouless and manaless. I found that neither Sutured nor  Laquatious would have won a game that the Titan or Wurm couldn't handle - please correct my misconception - as both provided answers for decks that might have come back on me.

I lost in testing only when when I mulliganed down without finding an outlets ... i.e., no bazaar, no gigapede, no answers for first turn and only one card. This happened in testing three times out of about thirty games. So I seem to pretty well auto-lose 10% of the games I tested.

I really liked the interactions of Titan and Wurm in the deck. Both provided answers and although it slows the win down to a turn later it rarely matters after their added utility is introduced into the mix. I would play with this build after testing ...

// Lands (13)
4x Bazaar of Baghdad
4x Rifstone Portal
4x Petrified Field
1x Strip Mine

// Artifacts (8)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Serum Powder

// Creatures (26)
4x Gigapede
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Golgari Thug
4x Ichorid
4x Nether Shadow
4x Stinkweed Imp
1x Symbiotic Wurm
1x Sundering Titan

// Spells (13)
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Dread Return
4x Unmask
2x Ancient Grudge

// Sideboard (15)
2x Maze of Ith/Ghost Quarter 
4x Leyline of the Void
4x Pithing Needle
3x Ray of Revelation
2x Ancient Grudge

I rely on Grudges and Titan and Chalices and the Strip to do some of the work required to let me take that extra turn for the kill.
I have to say that I was impressed at how well the deck played. It almost goes on auto-pilot and there were not a lot of decisions I needed to make that weren't fairly obvious.
Now I added a third Dread maindeck as it seems there is almost always a target for them but I suppose it could be a Grudge. This did not seem to make much difference in testing as I always had what I needed with the current configuration.
I added Mazes to the side only to handle to those damn creatures that I needed to nullify for a turn or two although I'm not convinced they are absolutely necessary ( never actually used any ). I'm not sure that Ghost Quarters might not be the superior choice here.
Now in the early days i played a lot of Dragon ( well diceman and shockwave are from our meta ) and this deck plays out very similar to it but seems more resiliant and consistent. Of course the many new card interactions were never available to Dragon and it makes me wonder how a Dragon deck might compete with the current Ichorid builds. You could almost insert a Dragon win condition in here but I would need dicemanx to figure that out.

[Harlequin]

@hq's list

Ok, I'll buy it.  I think in the right meta, It would be decently good.  It seems alot stronger against fish, and pottentially stax.  I think it may have a bit less game against combo, and possibly gifts... but thats just gut reation.
A few things I like:
4 Thugs - in a manaless deck strictly better than darkblast, as well as gives you a solid list of dredge cards
4 gigapedes - making a letal ghoul easier than in my build
mana plan in the board - gives you outs against ll.

Limitations (as compaired to my build)
No Haste - This gives fish that 1 turn to randomly rip stp/bounce and randomly "oops I win."  this is even worse agianst gifts, because if they rip DT, or merchant scroll, and have the mana to back it... well thats rough too.  However against gifts Ichorid beats + LQC will probably win because they have No blockers.  It ultimatly means you need to be a bit more conservative .. but a win is a win.
No Duresses from the board - Helps against combo
A more limited main deck plan - Winning only off Ichorids and Nether Shadows is notable more difficult then winning off Ichorids, Shadows and Ashens... If Dread Return is not an option.

Now granted I haven't tested your build, so I can't back my claims.  It also seems like a fair trade-off in a meta where Wasteland is more played than Gifts Ungiven & Dark Ritual.

@ Chalice for 1 again ...... I might be stuborn mule, but therepy is Incredibly important to the Cookiemonster game plan.  Chalice @ 1 hurts you more then basically any other deck.  What is your facination with Chalice @ 1?

[President Skroob]

@ Chalice for 1 again ...... I might be stuborn mule, but therepy is Incredibly important to the Cookiemonster game plan.  Chalice @ 1 hurts you more then basically any other deck.  What is your facination with Chalice @ 1?

Against certain decks, Chalice at 1 is a wonderful, wonderful thing. Chalice at 1 shuts off utility spells that many decks use to hold themselves together:

Brainstorm, especially Brainstorm
Dark Ritual (If you're pairing the Chalice at 1 with a turn 0 Leyline, black acceleration spells suddenly suck a big one)
Goblin Welder
Swords to Plowshares
Chain of Vapor
Imperial Seal
Vampiric Tutor

Also, less importantly, it also bonks Sol Ring and Mana Vault.

I can completely see, however, why you would hate it. If you Dread Return into a counter, the game has suddenly taken a bad turn for you. An Ichorid deck that doesn't have to resolve Dread Return does not fear counters and, so long as they can stall the opponent, can simply swing for the win. Chalice at 1 does a really good job of stalling. I personally tend not to lay it down without a Chalice for 0 in tandem, though in some cases I would, depending on the particulars of the game.

So I would say that in a deck that is trying to combo out with Dread Return, it's a terrible, 100% awful, no good, bad idea. In a deck that doesn't run the combo, I think it's a very solid play, one that I have personally used with great success.

[TurbulentDirge]

In testing of this deck, I have found that Chalice for 0 has only slightly less of an impact on the decks which we aim to hurt with Chalice for 1. As mentioned before, Therapy is extremely important to this deck; moreso if you are running Unmask either boarded or in the maindeck. In this case, Therapy becomes absolutely nuts.

I strongly agree with the strategy used in the list by Bebe. Ghoul is fine, but Ichorid really does not need it to win. Or rather, Dread Returning a Gigapede or Grave Troll will give you a win as quick or at worst one turn slower than a win courtesy of Ghoul.

@hg's list: I strongly reccomend running Riftstone Porta/Ancient Grudge instead of boarding in Bayou's and Overgrown Tomb. It is just more economical to board in 2 or so Portals than 6 G/B lands.

-DL

[policehq]

Riftstone Portal isn't a good game 2 card since Tormod's Crypt and Leyline will be boarded in so often.

The Chalice @1 play is really good on turn 3 post Cabal Therapies or possibly on turn 4, to prevent Brainstorm, Chain of Vapor, Swords to Plowshares, etc. Plus, it is simply a bonus, and Riftstone Portal can help with an early Pithing Needle play game 2, if Tormod's Crypt hasn't already been activated. It's just something I want to test.

RE: Harlequin - I have haste from Dragon Breath, same amount as you have. Nether Shadows, Ichorids, and Dread Return for Laquatus's Champion or Gigapedes are the win conditions.

EDIT: And the deck I posted before has good match-ups against Fish, Stax, and Combo, but Gifts, Control Slaver, and Bomberman are more difficult.

-hq

[bebe]

I strongly agree with the strategy used in the list by Bebe. Ghoul is fine, but Ichorid really does not need it to win. Or rather, Dread Returning a Gigapede or Grave Troll will give you a win as quick or at worst one turn slower than a win courtesy of Ghoul.

The strategy works as long as your opponent doesn't get a first turn LLoV out. I see Emerald Charm as the biggest plus to the original build that runs Bayous. I can fight through Crypts and Needles and still win but LLoV is GG. I never encountered a first turn Leyline in testing and I'm pretty sure you that at a large event you won't see it more than once per match ( I never drew the damn card when I wanted it for the mirror ). Remember that if you win game one and Leyline hurts you game two, mull to an Unmask game three. Its your ace in ther hole.

[policehq]

Um, can you explain that a little?

Game 3, after losing to a Leyline of the Void, that opens up the game before I can cast Unmask, I need to mulligan aggressively into an Unmask and a card to remove to cast it, and if so, what am I trying to discard from their hand?

Post-losing to Leyline of the Void, I'd rather mull to an Emerald Charm if anything. . .

-hq

[TurbulentDirge]

Leyline is a problem I have encountered in testing; the deck has no serious answers to it. Even Emerald Charm does not entirely fit the bill, as that G required to cast it is often dependant on having a Riftstone Portal in the yard.
We could just put 4 Savannah in the board, and then board in both the Rays and the Savannah's for game 2 against a deck we know will run Leyline. No matter what we do, our Leyline countermeasures are highly vulnerable to Duress, if they go first, or FoW, if we can even cast the card on our turn.
Thankfully, for now few decks run Leyline, but what will our solution be if more decks start to run it?

-DL

[President Skroob]

In testing of this deck, I have found that Chalice for 0 has only slightly less of an impact on the decks which we aim to hurt with Chalice for 1. As mentioned before, Therapy is extremely important to this deck; moreso if you are running Unmask either boarded or in the maindeck. In this case, Therapy becomes absolutely nuts.

...

-DL

I am not advocating jumping over Chalice for 0 and ignoring it, far from it. Chalice for 0 and Chalice for 1 are completely different as far as their effects on the opponent, which is why I suggested using them together. With a single Chalice, especially on the play (on the draw it's a tougher call) you want to shut off their mana acceleration and keep their curve down. However, if I am sitting on a land, a Mox, and two Chalices, I am going to take my first turn to ensure that not only can my opponent not ramp up a solid mana curve, but he also cannot fix his hand with a Brainstorm, Ancestral Recall, or even a Dark Ritual for Necropotence.

My apologies if I was misleading you, as I certainly do not think that using Chalice at 0 is a shabby play or even a worse play than Chalice at 1. I merely feel that playing a Chalice at 1 should never be dismissed outright; it can be solid depending on the gamestate, and especially if you're sitting on a two Chalice hand.

[hitman]

I haven't been playing/testing Ichorid decks that much but I don't see why it uses 8 rainbow lands opposed to 4 fetches and 4 duals.  This would increase the chance of you dredging into the right cards faster.  A turn faster can matter a lot.  The deck I'm testing against is this:

4 Golgari Troll
4 Stinkweed
1 Golgari Thug
1 Darkblast
4 Putrid (Good against Tormod's)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Unmask
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
4 Ichorid
4 Ashen Ghoul
1 Dread Return
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou (for sideboard cards)
4 Bazaar of Baghdad

Sideboard:

4 Ray of Revelation
1 Balance
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Pithing Needle
1 Dread Return
2 Scrubland (For Ray and Balance)

Leyline is a problem so i really like to have a lot of Ray of Revelations and the Scrublands to play them before they hit the grave.  I hate putting lands in a sideboard but Ichorid usually only has to seriously worry about the grave hate or a faster deck like combo getting past your initial discard spells (at least in testing for me).  Again, I'm not that informed about Ichorid but these are the minor changes I've made to Smmenen's list.

[cssamerican]

I haven't been playing/testing Ichorid decks that much but I don't see why it uses 8 rainbow lands opposed to 4 fetches and 4 duals.  This would increase the chance of you dredging into the right cards faster.  A turn faster can matter a lot. 

The reason is you really have to only play two colors for fetchlands to work. In many games you will only get a single non-Bazaar land in play at a time, this means you will have to choose, or you opponent will get to choose what secondary color you get cut you off from too frequently.

[TurbulentDirge]

Better solution to Leyline is simply boarding 4 Gemstone Caverns and the Rays. That removes the clunky Emerald Charm/Dual land idea, and keeps the deck and board more coherent.
This fix will work against Leyline in every situation that Charm will work, and then some. The only time that it will fail is if FoW is involved, in which case you were probably screwed anyway.

-DL

[policehq]

Better solution to Leyline is simply boarding 4 Gemstone Caverns and the Rays. That removes the clunky Emerald Charm/Dual land idea, and keeps the deck and board more coherent.
This fix will work against Leyline in every situation that Charm will work, and then some. The only time that it will fail is if FoW is involved, in which case you were probably screwed anyway.

-DL

Ray of Revelation will not work when Emerald Charm would against Leyline of the Void when you have not drawn 2 mana.

The same thing happens with both cards getting Force of Willed.

The clunkier of those two ideas seems to be the one involving removing an extra card in your opening hand from the game and relying on a 2cc instant.

Further Emerald Charms serve to make up for lost turns; you can untap Bazaar of Baghdad and dredge again (equal to a sort of Time Walk) or target the 4cc enchantment if replayed. Further Ray of Revelations just serve to play against enchantments that are hard for the opponent to play.

-hq