[Planar Chaos] Extirpate

[o]

i think midgame, if you duress, whcih means you see whats in their hands, so that means you can target the right card to get some card advantagem, while getting rid of an important card. this is pretty good. making sur eyour opponent doesnt have a FOF or daze in his hands is pretty good if they are our of his deck.

its a small CRanial extraction which is instant, uncounterable and 1B mana

Is it  or ? The orginal post has it at , but I know it isn't officially spoiled yet. There is quite a big difference in that mana cost...

It is only for sure.  That is obvious from the picture.

[The Atog Lord]

I can't believe this card is being so hyped in a format that features a restricted list. Boggling.

So true.

This is really awful news for Dragon, and Ichorid won't be too thrilled by it either. But I suspect that against a Drain deck or a Fish deck this card won't have nearly the impact everyone is afraid it will.

[brianpk80]

I can't believe this card is being so hyped in a format that features a restricted list. Boggling.

So true.

This is really awful news for Dragon, and Ichorid won't be too thrilled by it either. But I suspect that against a Drain deck or a Fish deck this card won't have nearly the impact everyone is afraid it will.

Hmmm, I'd have to disagree somewhat with both comments above.  The fact that Vintage carries a restricted list doesn't necessarily diminish the potential this card has to eviscerate many popular strategies.  The intent isn't to "extirpate" someone's Fact or Fiction, Mox Sapphire, Time Walk, or any other restricted card.  Its prime prey is the set of 4-of's that are essentials to proper deck function: as already mentioned Ichorid, Worldgorger Dragon, and also Brainstorm, Dark Ritual, Life from the Loam, Crucible of Worlds, Oath of Druids, Wasteland, Goblin Charbelcher, Accumulated Knowledge, Sensei's Divining Top, Squee, etc.  Granted, in some cases there is the added issue of getting those cards into the graveyard to begin with, but in most instances, they will arrive there inevitably.  Then, there's its added capability of royally messing up certain mana bases.  I know I would hate seeing Fish/Stax remove all of my Forbidden Orchards or Tropical Islands when playing Oath and same for Tundras when playing Fish myself.  In a pinch, you can Extirpate a Lotus after a Will or in response to the Salvagers combo.  Plus, there will be circumstances where, like Balance, this card can be abused in three different ways: graveyard removal, hand removal, and library removal/manipulation.  Not only is it a free Peek/Glasses of Urza, but you can also use Exirpate to undo an opponent's Mystical/Vampiric Tutor or Imperial Seal if need be. 

That much potency and flexibility, at a cheap, instant speed, uncounterable , is quite solid.  Whether it will dramatically alter Vintage remains to be seen.  Some claims may be overstated, but (assuming its reported text/cost remain the same) I think the card is strong enough to warrant most of the attention it's received.

-BPK

[Raakam]

How many times have you kept a decent hand with the mitigating factor being "I have the fetch/brainstorm, I'll be ok".

Like you always try to ensure that Will resolves and protect it, you're going to play around this card. It'll change that turn 1 brainstorm fix that so many players are fond of - compounding the fact that it is a split-second spell makes it a lot harder to deal with.
I don't think its intended target is going to be mana drain, although that'll probably do just fine. If gifts or whatever deck just drained you, they're typically about to do something nasty to you with the added mana. I honestly feel that this card will target brainstorm a *lot*, and at U, Brainstorm has been one of the most undercosted unrestricted cards in MT:G for a long time. We could deal with brainstorm via CoV, or Meddling Mage, both of which potentially let no brainstorms resolve for the opponent, Extirpate/Root of Evil/whatever it'll end up being called is a permanent answer (short of playing C. wish).

In conclusion: Yay! In the face brainstorm

[zeus-online]

I think hitting fetchlands and/or duals will be the strongest application of this card, but i still don't see how this is gonna wreak everything...Dragon CAN and HAS played chalice of the void in the SB, setting it at 1 is already a strong play against many hate cards, so this is no different.

And....if you are targeting a gifts ungiven in the 'yard, you either won the counter war, in which case you are probably already in good shape...or it resolved and you're gonna loose one way or the other, with empty the warrens getting popular getting 4 mana sources with gifts just for storm, looks even better.

Not sure how powerful it will be against long, since long has  a thousand ways to draw cards, build up storm and mana. Also...long can actually race a 1cc hate card 

Against fish, it will probably suck, unless you somehow manage to remove all their white mana (U/W fish is the most popular variant, as far as i know).

Using it against goblin welders is ridiculos....they are probably only playing 1 or 2 of the cards they're trying to weld in (titan, trike, duplicant, mindslaver...mana artifacts) Removing their thirsts or counters might be worth something though.
Don't know about stax though...

It might be good, but i'm not convinced yet.

/Zeus

[Barron]

The strengthe of the card isn't from removing the stuff people weld for (though it could be), but to remove the welders themselves. Same with fish, you don't have to remove the white mana to be effective. Once you remove the force of wills and/or lock pieces fish is a sitting duck. At the least this card punishes decks that don't rely on broken spells. There wasn't much wiggle room for people to make metagamed vintage decks (i.e. fish, hide/seek control, etc...) but now there is even less.

[brianpk80]

And....if you are targeting a gifts ungiven in the 'yard, you either won the counter war, in which case you are probably already in good shape...or it resolved and you're gonna loose one way or the other, with empty the warrens getting popular getting 4 mana sources with gifts just for storm, looks even better.

I don't have much experience v. EtW Gifts but this card singlehandedly undoes the classic Gifts set-up (Yawgmoth's Will, Recoup, Tinker, Time Walk).  Recoup and Walk to hand, and then Extirpate Yawgmoth's Will when targeted by Recoup.  However EtW changes the set-up, I still see Gifts as a deck that wants to cast Gifts for Will and resolve it.  Cutting off that ability is strong, IMO.

-BPK

[wethepeople]

All these Split Second cards are basically making maindecked Duresses a requirement. Take Trickbind for an additional example.

I cannot wait for the Planar Chaos release, I already pre-ordered a playset of them.

[zeus-online]

And....if you are targeting a gifts ungiven in the 'yard, you either won the counter war, in which case you are probably already in good shape...or it resolved and you're gonna loose one way or the other, with empty the warrens getting popular getting 4 mana sources with gifts just for storm, looks even better.

I don't have much experience v. EtW Gifts but this card singlehandedly undoes the classic Gifts set-up (Yawgmoth's Will, Recoup, Tinker, Time Walk).  Recoup and Walk to hand, and then Extirpate Yawgmoth's Will when targeted by Recoup.  However EtW changes the set-up, I still see Gifts as a deck that wants to cast Gifts for Will and resolve it.  Cutting off that ability is strong, IMO.

-BPK

They can still target tinker with the recoup...no? You can then remove the tinker, and they can recoup the will next turn. (Time walk, you know)... Also, you don't HAVE to use that setup...i've often gone for Tolarian academy, lotus, mox, mana crypt and then tutored for will...easy to do.

I'm not saying its a useless card, its just not as good as people say it is, i know i won't loose any sleep over it.

/Zeus

[meadbert]

And....if you are targeting a gifts ungiven in the 'yard, you either won the counter war, in which case you are probably already in good shape...or it resolved and you're gonna loose one way or the other, with empty the warrens getting popular getting 4 mana sources with gifts just for storm, looks even better.

I don't have much experience v. EtW Gifts but this card singlehandedly undoes the classic Gifts set-up (Yawgmoth's Will, Recoup, Tinker, Time Walk).  Recoup and Walk to hand, and then Extirpate Yawgmoth's Will when targeted by Recoup.  However EtW changes the set-up, I still see Gifts as a deck that wants to cast Gifts for Will and resolve it.  Cutting off that ability is strong, IMO.

-BPK

Coffin Purge does the same thing.  Coffin Purge may not have split second, but the fact that it has flashback is about the same.  How often is your opponent going to counter Coffin purge twice in a row.  Either way I would much rather deal with Extirpate by simply duressing it rather than having to deal with Coffin Purge by blowing two counters on it.

[yespuhyren]

I really don't see how you can equate the two.

Coffin Purge - Remove a card from GY with flashback, can be countered
Extirpate - Remove FOW or Drain or the like from opponents GY, get to see what their entire library contains, see their hand so you can make a game plan, and remove the copies from their hand so they can't counter your stuff.  This is just one application, but I fail to see how this isn't much better.

[chrissss]

I really don't see how you can equate the two.

Coffin Purge - Remove a card from GY with flashback, can be countered
Extirpate - Remove FOW or Drain or the like from opponents GY, get to see what their entire library contains, see their hand so you can make a game plan, and remove the copies from their hand so they can't counter your stuff.  This is just one application, but I fail to see how this isn't much better.

Plus it can't be countered.

That's what I didn't get either - this is nothing like coffin purge.

[diopter]

I really don't see how you can equate the two.

Coffin Purge - Remove a card from GY with flashback, can be countered
Extirpate - Remove FOW or Drain or the like from opponents GY, get to see what their entire library contains, see their hand so you can make a game plan, and remove the copies from their hand so they can't counter your stuff.  This is just one application, but I fail to see how this isn't much better.

Plus it can't be countered.

That's what I didn't get either - this is nothing like coffin purge.

Coffin Purge has flashback.
If your opponent is wasting two of his/her counters to counter Coffin Purge completely, then he is doing one of three things:
1.) Paying UUUU and using two cards in hand
2.) Paying UU and using three cards in hand
3.) Paying no mana and using four cards in hand

Meanwhile, your investment is BB and one card in hand. Maybe there are some situations where this is worth it for your opponent (e.g. Animate on the stack with a Dragon in the yard) but in most practical cases, your opponent is already well and truly fucked.

[yespuhyren]

Ok while I understand this, how do people not understand the value of seeing their opponents hand?  People constantly don't even talk about this factor.  If anyone thinks this isn't huge then I'd really have to wonder   

[zeus-online]

Yeah, but i'd wager that duress does the "peek" thing better...but maybe thats just my opinion.

/Zeus

[OfficeShredder]

If seeing your opponent's hand was huge, peek would be maindecked everywhere...

[chrissss]

Coffin Purge has flashback.
If your opponent is wasting two of his/her counters to counter Coffin Purge completely, then he is doing one of three things:
1.) Paying UUUU and using two cards in hand
2.) Paying UU and using three cards in hand
3.) Paying no mana and using four cards in hand

Meanwhile, your investment is BB and one card in hand. Maybe there are some situations where this is worth it for your opponent (e.g. Animate on the stack with a Dragon in the yard) but in most practical cases, your opponent is already well and truly fucked.

Why I think this card can be great: red is for coffin purge

1) Uncounterable or misdirectable. It can be countered and misdirected

2)You see the hand and library ( this can be vital, seeing an opponents library is very useful imo, it makes your strategy completely different.)
You see nothing
3) If he has one mana drain of fow in his graveyard, then you can remove them all from the game without having to worry about counters. It doesnt remove counters form their hand or deck
4) brainstorm, mystical, vampiric etc. cards that put other cards on their libraries. you can remove the brainstorm from the game, and the top 2 cards that were going to be on top are gone also( assuming he doesnt have a fetch land)
with vamp and mystic, its just card advantage in many cases. THis does nothing.

5) you can respond to Yawgwill by removing something vital, like dark rituals. You can do the same, but as said, it doesnt remove the other copies.

6) it can stop a crucible lock with strip mine /wasteland. coffin purge can remove them, but with exterpiate all wastelands are gone instantly.

7)can only target 1 card . Can target 2 cards which can be a lot better.

[brianpk80]

Coffin Purge has flashback.
If your opponent is wasting two of his/her counters to counter Coffin Purge completely, then he is doing one of three things:
1.) Paying UUUU and using two cards in hand
2.) Paying UU and using three cards in hand
3.) Paying no mana and using four cards in hand

Meanwhile, your investment is BB and one card in hand. Maybe there are some situations where this is worth it for your opponent (e.g. Animate on the stack with a Dragon in the yard) but in most practical cases, your opponent is already well and truly fucked.

If I'm not mistaken, it's better to invest only one and one card in hand to remove the target without any chance of it being countered.  We're talking about invalidating plays that would otherwise instantaneously win the game for an opponent (Will, Animate, Ichorid).  The sole advantage I see of Coffin Purge v. Extirpate is that the Purge can be flashed back after a Duress or Oathing one's self, etc. 

I agree with yespuhyren that seeing an opponent's hand is huge.  The advantage is hard to quantify and that's why Vintage deckbuilders can't justify making space for a card like Peek in already airtight decks, though it has seen play in Legacy.  Knowing everything about your opponent's position gives you immense weight to maximize your own resources.  Instead of "risking" a spell, you would know staight up what the outcome would be and what, if any, measures an opponent might have both in hand and in library to address your threat. 

The card may not singlehandedly spin Type One over on its head but it has potential to be a Vintage staple on par with Stifle or Duress.

-BPK

[Liam-K]

This sits in your hand and does nothing until your opponent casts a good spell.  It does not affect the resolution of that spell in any way.  I just don't see it *doing* that much, especially since people will want to play it in decks that already play around force of will (or else, the damage is likely done after the first force).  It is not proactive.  Its best application is against an engine card... but is likely only usable after said engine card has been used.

Smmenen's instinct of hitting Brainstorm is probably going to be your best early play with the card.  Merchant scroll might matter too.  However, even stripping the TFKs out of Slaver feels like too little too late after they've cast one (for fish and maybe stax, no one wants to play this in combocontrol right?)

[wethepeople]

I actually am more so stoked on the idea of stealing all of my opponent's non-basics from his library more than stealing Brainstorm, however that may be biased due to the fact that a great majority of my decks play Wasteland.

Coffin Purge is infinitely times weaker than this in nearly all situations, the only time being it stonger is that Purge can be casted at two seperate points in the game, where as Ext could not. However, I still seem to enjoy the ability to remove a key spell in their deck, but being given the right to pull something out of my opponents graveyard without giving them any right no say otherwise is certainly a plus.

Canada is going to be pissed.

[Vegeta2711]

I actually am more so stoked on the idea of stealing all of my opponent's non-basics from his library more than stealing Brainstorm, however that may be biased due to the fact that a great majority of my decks play Wasteland.

Why? It doesn't DO anything. Ohs nos, you stole a few non-basics! That entire plan gets invalidated if people include even one shockland or simply wait to use their non-basics when they plan on say... oh winning the game.

[dicemanx]

Canada is going to be pissed.

OK, curiosity got the better of me. Why would Canada get pissed?

[Oedipus]

Smmenen, how does Ichorid play around this card? Chalice for 1?

[OfficeShredder]

The obvious way is to just dredge really fast.  Trying to avoid putting stuff in your graveyard is a way to just lose (because it means you're not doing anything), so you go balls to the walls and try to get two different dredgers in your yard.  It probably won't hurt to run ashen ghouls to take ichorid's place if he gets nailed

[Neonico]

@ mon, Goblin chief : I dont know if you tested gifts against it or not yet, but as far as i tested, this card is insane against gifts. The most interesting play isnt to remove FoW or drain, as said, but fetchlands/Dual lands and to a lesser extend brainstrom. In a control deck that plays 15 lands, removing 2 or 3 impact the game soo much, not to mention that you can incidentally been unable to provide BB (or even BBB often) mana for your kill.
Ok you can work your mana base with Schocklands and add a Third kind of fetchlands but as long as you build a deck with a card in mind, even if were not sure the card will be played, its a huge impact on the game.

Also, its as good (for me, even better because uncounterable) as coffin purge (actually seen in some gifts sideboards, at least in france) when you want to remove a recoup target, a welder target (against slaver, this card is really a strong addition), a restricted brokeness when you opponent plays will and so on...

so, to conclude, as far as i tested (Gifts matchs versus UB extirpate fish, UB extirpate solution, UWB extirpate fish, Mirror gifts and Extirpate gifts vs slaver) the extirpate allmost allways won the game.
For me, the card WILL have a huge impact on the metagmae, in control decks (for the mirror) and in fishies (UB, UBW RWB)

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

Canada is going to be pissed.

OK, curiosity got the better of me. Why would Canada get pissed?

Well, I assume because the card hits the two "classical" Canadian decks, Dragon and Bomberman, harder than anything else in the metagame :p

@Neonico: No, I didn't find time yet to playtest with the card, I was mainly looking at parallel cards to get an impression.
As for what you describe, what kind of Gifts-list did you test? Because even though you're at an advantage as I didn't test, your results seems rather unlikely to me. While I can see that Fish removing two lands from my deck might prove annoying, I'm not sure if it's worth a card for them to do that. After all, Stax doesn't use it's Jester's Cap for lands, either. As for hitting Brainstorm, FoW or Merchant Scroll, that is certainly annoying, but if that prooves to be a always game-winning play, people are playing Meddling Mage really badly.... And honestly, I rarely even try countering Mage, so why would I want to counter Extirpate, it doesn't attack and bans only cards in my GY. As for shooting Will from my Gifts, against Fish with the two EtW I play maindeck, I usually won't need to Gifts Will to win anyway. One of the typical things I do is get a Warrens of for 6-8 and then just create card-advantage till my drawn Will is lethal. And if you Extirpate EtW, well, it means I already played one and can now find B.Wish to get it back. You on the other hand have one less card that can impact the game right now. Seems like a deal to me.
As for removing Will in the Mirror, I agree that this is somewhat powerful. On the other hand, did you count how many times your opponent did manage to draw incredibly far ahead because the card you just wasted from your hand to remove some stuff from his deck didn't counter the Ancestral/Gifts/TfK/FoF/whatever he played and now he's burying you in card-advantage, topping of with Tinker, Empty, hardcast Will or whatever. To me, similarly to Extract or Trickbind, the card has a nice set-up effect for the lategame but should suffer from the disadvantage it puts you at in the early game (if he doesn't have duplicates in hand, that is).
On the other hand, if Extirpate turns out as good in the mirror as you imply, than we should all have a hard look at SBing Meddling Mage. He does nearly the same and  attacks...

[dicemanx]

how does Ichorid play around this card? Chalice for 1?

Ichorid could consider, among other options, to diversify its threat base - Putrid Imps and Ashen Ghouls. That way, even if the Ichorids get hit by Extirpate, you have other graveyard-recurring creatures to beat down with or to fuel your Dread Return.

Alternately, Ichorid could use existing disruption to fight against Extirpate - Unmask and Therapy (if you're using the mana version) can nail that card before depositing Ichorids into the graveyard.

Finally, the best solution might be to temporarily switch to something that isn't affected by Extirpate - wait until the format pushes the card out of main decks (if it ever makes it into people's main decks), then resume playing Ichorid. Furthermore, the card is receiving a lot of hype right now, and there are some pretty extreme claims made at the moment, but we'll have to wait and see if that will translate into this card getting played heavily in main decks. I predict that nothing of the sort will happen - as a disruption spell, the card on occasion just does literally nothing against many decks that it supposedly "impacts greatly".

[Kirika]

I'll have to agree with this being really undercosted at B but then again its not that hard to hate it out with a chalice at 1.  This will definately have an impact on all formats but how much we should just wait and see.

I actually see it being really good in black aggro where you have both discard duress, hymm and land destruction, wasteland and sinkhole.  You can remove cards you forced them to discard or remove dual lands which will be pretty devastating since it cuts them off from a color unless people start running Ravinca duals which if your playing black aggro they take damage for playing a ravinca dual untaped so thats win win for you.  The fetchland count in most decks is 3/2 anyway so this wouldn't be  so great rather hit a dual and unless they run Ravinca duals or basics of the color they need you cut them off from a color besides the mox and lotus.

The use of it on duals and brainstorm will be pretty strong.

It might actually be useful in control mirrors to remove counters if some have been used already but duress does that earlier but just isn't as effective.

It does hurt any deck reliant on one card but that card has to get in the grave either by discard or being cast already so it isn't as potent as it is hyped to be.

[Prometheon]

Fetch diversification is going to be more important than ever. I can see a deck running this and Pithing Needle screwing a lot of control decks over.

[wethepeople]

Canada is going to be pissed.

OK, curiosity got the better of me. Why would Canada get pissed?

I actually meant to edit that out, but it pretty much meant that both Salvagers and Dragon, two of Canada's favorite Vintage decks are hosed by this card. Atleast "Mon, Goblin Cheif" got it.