Mono Red Uba, Discussion

[yespuhyren]

Recently Jeff Carpenter piloted this deck to a T16 finish at Waterbury with the most interesting shop list I think I have ever seen in my life.

 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Null Rod
3 Orb Of Dreams
1 Sol Ring
1 Trinisphere
3 Uba Mask

Artifact Creatures
2 Duplicant
1 Platinum Angel
4 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sundering Titan

Creatures
4 Goblin Welder
3 Viashino Heretic

Enchantments
3 Blood Moon
3 Pyrostatic Pillar

Sorceries
2 Wheel Of Fate

Basic Lands
9 Mountain

Lands
3 Bazaar Of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine

Sideboard:
3 Eon Hub
2 Razormane Masticore
2 Lava Dart
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Shattering Spree
3 Slice And Dice

First of all, what you will notice is the lack of a few cards:

Crucible of Worlds
Smokestack
Chalice of the Void
Gorilla Shaman

This deck is very different from almost any deck being talked about right now, and I figured I'd try and start some discussion on this deck to get people's ideas on this.

Drain and Combo players - What is it like to face a deck with MD Blood Moon, Orb of Dreams, and Pyrostatic Pillar, among various other threats.

Stax players - We know how much we hate Heretics, and the 3MD heretics would probably be enough to seal the deal in almost every G1.

Fish players - How would you deal with this deck?

The MD Blood Moons really make the deck play out interesting because resolving this early means that you will not have access to shops or bazaars, though it also means if you resolve this early enough opponents won't be able to fetch out their islands and will be stuck with Mountains.  Even if they do fetch out islands, most decks like Gifts and CS do not play basics, and this would turn all of those into U/R decks, cutting off Black and White (for fish or gifts respectively)

Then with Null Rods and Orb of Dreams/Heretic, both plans will help to assure that you can detonate or neutralize off color moxes helping to maintain the ideal situation of cutting of colors to your opponent

Wheel of Fate is another interesting card, and in my testing has been very solid in this deck.

I have contacted Jeff and asked for some of his input, and hopefully he will grace this threat with how he came up with the deck, where he plans on going with it, and what he would change for the future.

[Largent]

im no stax expert but i think the main deck pyrostatic pillars should be chalice of the void because they both hate the same decks and you can use shop mana on COTV

PS slice and dice is super tech.

[yespuhyren]

Yeah, Slice and Dice is what I've been using in Uba since ETW started seeing play.  The changes I would think to make at first glance, though obviously I'm sure Carpenter has more experience with his version than I do:

-3 Pyrostatic Pillar
-2 Wheel of Fate

+4 Chalice
+1 Blood Moon

[Moxlotus]

As a combo player I would love to face this deck.  I have 2 free turns before I have to worry about the deck's biggest threat--Blood Moon.  And by then I would have fetched out my basics.  There are no Spheres, no Chalices.  Pyro Pillar isn't as good against combo as you'd think, but its still pretty good.   So there's really 3 cards that will suck to play against instead of 8 (sors and chalices).

[Cross]

Orb of dreams is pretty good against combo I hear. Not to mention dragon and ichorid.

[nataz]

I want to remember Jeff saying something along the lines of wanting to switch out the pillars that day. Don't remember what for. I will say as an ichorid player who faced him in round 4 (maybe 5), memory jar + welder is really good. Orb wasn't as big a deal as you might think, and obv. grudge is an MVP. These were really really strange games, and we ended up drawing in turns.

Solemn is a house though, I had forgotten how good he is in a mono-red uba deck. It can draw so many cards.

[yespuhyren]

He didn't run Jar.

[nataz]

1 Memory Jar

[yespuhyren]

Oh wow I completely misread that and put a Mana Vault in the deck lol.

[madmanmike25]

First of all, what you will notice is the lack of a few cards:

Crucible of Worlds
Smokestack
Chalice of the Void
Gorilla Shaman

Not to mention Wasteland and Barbarian Ring. I realize Bloodmoon is in the deck, but at the worst they would just become more mountains.  Besides, Bloodmoon doesn't always resolve, and even without Crucible wasteland and B. Ring would be great in this deck.

Am I missing some or is he only running 23 mana sources?  Seems a tad low to me.

Also, is repeatedly welding Solemn in/out of play that much of a house?  Card draw rocks, I know, but is Solemn optimal?  Aren't there more powerful things to be welding in?

I don't think Pyro Pillar is that bad over chalice (I do personally prefer Chalice).  I think people underestimate Pillar, but it isn't an artifact and thats it's advantage.  With Heretics the damage might just add up real fast.  In fact instead of Solemn Simulacrum, I could almost see Juggernauts in this deck......

[Crankster]

In fact instead of Solemn Simulacrum, I could almost see Juggernauts in this deck......

That's like replacing thirst with sea drake in slaver.

[yespuhyren]

I honestly think that this is an evolution FROM shop aggro, because I looked at Jeff's previous tournament listings through SCG database and found this:

August 6 2006 - Workshop Aggro

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Crucible Of Worlds
3 Eon Hub
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Null Rod
1 Sol Ring
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere

Artifact Creatures
4 Juggernaut
3 Razormane Masticore
4 Solemn Simulacrum

Creatures
4 Goblin Welder

Enchantments
3 Blood Moon
3 Pyrostatic Pillar

Snow Artifact Creatures
2 Phyrexian Soulgorger

Sorceries
3 Shattering Spree

Basic Lands
6 Mountain

Lands
2 Bazaar Of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Eon Hub
1 Null Rod
2 Psychogenic Probe
2 Duplicant
1 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Lava Dart
2 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast

The deck build is extremely similar, and would also explorain why there were Pyrostatic pillars still in the deck.  Do you guys think it is possible that he decided to go from Aggro to Control but maybe didn't have enough time to test and figure out other options?

Regardless, both options are still very interesting and so vastly different from almost anything other people are talking about.  I give Jeff a lot of credit.

[vroman]

very interesting deck. 4xjens, awesome.
there was brief excitment among my testing crew when the new red draw7 was revealed. it has some problems though. if you flip wheel of fate under uba, you cant suspend it = dead card. uba + wheel = mindtwist, is best part of running the draw7. but neo-wheel requires you find and suspend it then find and resolve uba in the next 4 turns, in order to max the effect. also neo-wheel is countered by chalice@0, which probably influenced cutting chalice from the deck.
in general, I dont think 1 mana in savings is worth waiting 4 turns. this deck might be better off w 1 paleo-wheel and 1 neo-wheel.
is eon hub worth 3 side slots? it stops oath, true, but is this card even worth boarding in against stax or anti-energy flux? maindeck 3xheretic+9xmtn should rule the stax match period. energy flux is overrated, welder+mtns (solemn) is ample defense. though against UW fish, eon hub also protects your yard from jotun grunt; yet that means he never starves.
thus eon hub is 5 mana answer solely for oath. I propose jesters cap in this slot. unless theres some other major archetypal use of the upkeep Im forgetting.
its been long, long time since Ive seen platinum angel in play, but if memory serves, every competive vintage deck has some means to deal w big artifact creatures. basicaly Ms. Plats is 4/4 flyer for 7. at that rate, clockwork dragon is more efficient to hard cast.

[yespuhyren]

Vroman, I personally think that in this deck Eon hub serves a few purposes:

1) Shut off Oath
2) Shut off Ichorid
3) Shut off Smokestack/Tangle Wire
4) Shut off Energy Flux
5) Shuff of Upkeep costs for Phyrexian Soulgorger, Razormane Masticore

[Harlequin]

Hey everyone, Its Jeff.

Sorry for how long it took, but I have taken a break from TMD forums while I to get lvl 70 in wow recently ^_^

A few things....

Its really a shame that you picked this itteration of the deck to discuss for the opening post.  This version was a test build that I was actually very unsatified with.  I have been playing mono-red Shop decks of this nature sinse LAST waterbury, and I have had many almost top-8s.  The best I've done with it was 2nd place at a mox tourney.  The deck always seems to come up a day late and dollar short.

You are correct in predicting that this deck is a modification of the deck, lovingly named "Jaws."  from Waterbury 9.  Why Jaws?  because its fish like... but with bigger fish. 

I was on a quest for a good engine for the deck.  Waterbury is where I tested out the Bazaar/Uba engine ... which was only good two times all day.   Wheel of fate proved to be a terrible Idea.

As a result of the Straturbury realizations, for ELDs tournement I ran the following list:

Here is that list:
Mons Goblin Beatdown.dec

Mana!
4 Mishra's Workshop
8 Mountains
5 Moxen
4 Lotus, Vault, Crypt, Sol
1 Stripmine

Haters!
3 Null Rod
3 Bloodmoon
3 Orb of Dreams
1 Trinisphere

Playas!
4 Welders
3 Viashino
3 Simulacrum
1 Sundering Titan

Helpers!
4 Gamble
2 Lava Dart

WTF?!
1 Possessed Portal
3 Bazzaar
3 Squee
3 Crucible
---
Sideboard very similar

This subsituted the "Fish" style win conditions for the (ultimately inadiquate) Possessed Portal Win.  Featuring Gamble -and- Bazaar along side Squee as support.  At ELDs tournement I realised ... this build can't beat fish.  I got 0-2ed very quickly by a "I-Kill-your-welder" red-fish enviroment.

-----------

I will refrain from discussing my current build because, I plan on getting some good testing done this weekend any Myriad.

-----------

What I can discuss is why I love the cards that are constant in the deck.  First I'll go over the basics...

Static Hate vrs Triggered Hate --  Traditional stax is triggered deck, mixed in with some Activated abilites. Its a simple fact that a good player can plan there turn around these triggers, and anticipate your activations.  Static abilites are ... well .. static: Orb, Null Rod, Pyrostatic*, Blood Moon. 

*-I know by the rules pyrostatic is triggered, I understand this, but its always in effect and if your opponent can win the game with the damage trigger on the stack then fine.  For all other situations its essentially a static ability.

"Ok tough guy, then why no Sphere of Resistance?"  -- Sphere of resistance is amplifed by Smoke Stacks, Tanglewire, and Wasteland/Crucible ... all of which I don't run.  The focus of the deck shifts from mana screwing your opponent, to color screwing them... something that Sphere doesn't help with.

The other Concept of the deck:  not all decks run Moxen...  but all decks run non-basics and all decks run fetchlands (with the notable exception of 5c stax and some dragon decks).  So the main focus of the deck was to attack the fetchlands, and focus less on moxen.   So in that light, I opted to go with Orb and Moon over Chalice and Mox monkey.  Now don't get me wrong, Moxen are still an issue.  But Null rod acts like Mox Monkey by punishing already resolved moxen, and Orb punishes moxen like chalice does.  Under both Orb and chalice moxen can be played for storm but not mana.  Chalice at 1 or 2 are good but not as good as they are in Ubastax.  Personally, I don't think Chalices do enough.  Call it stupidity or aggrogance but in my oppinion Chalice only beats bad players.   

About Pyrostatic Pillar - This card is actually not in the deck to beat ritual based combo.  Its in the deck to beat -drain- decks.  Don't get me wrong its a stumbing block against rit combo.. but the problem there is that all they have to do is bounce it and win that turn.  Drain decks have it a bit harder, beucase thier path to win -that- turn is slightly more difficult.  Rit decks can hold back every spell until they find that chian of vapor for-the-win.  Drain decks require more pre-win spells to set up.  This is where Pillar shines.  Also another point can be awarded for owning bomberman's combo fairly hardcore.

On that note, pure combo decks like Grim Long or Pitch long have proven to be a decently bad match-up for the deck.  They can race the hate, or simply sit on a winning hand until they draw into some bounce.  This is where I wish I had Juggernaught or something else to speed up a win.

A word on Viashino Heratic - AMAZING!  Without this card, I'm not even sure the deck is viable.  Obviously, he's a brick house against any shop deck.  But the 1/3 body makes him great for deturing those funny little 2/1's every fish deck loves.  In all my matchups against pure combo I only side out ONE viashino... in all other matches they stay in.  Also his synergy with Orb makes him an MVP at keeping my opponent off slaver lock or Jar.  As a general rule, if I have mana up, I never attack with Viashino.  Even against fish you never know when they could bust down a Jite or something that will own you.

[yespuhyren]

What about playing 1/2 Shamans to eat moxes faster?  Have you ever considered this option?  Also, having the Bazaar-Squee engine seems like it woudl be holding a lot more dead cards since your goal is to drop a blood moon. 

Why not focus more on that goal, and try the following:

-3 Squee
+1 Blood Moon
+2 Gorilla Shaman

For a more controllign setup.

[Harlequin]

I think Monkies are overkill on the moxen hate.  I have offically moved to the x4 Orb of Dreams soap box.  I think turn 1 orb of dreams is the most consistantly amazing play this deck has.  Following up an Orb with something like Null Rod seals the deal.  Viashino may be slower, but if you leave him untapped, your opponent would need to play 3 moxen in one turn in order to even tap ONE of them under orb. 

I guess it comes down to the fact that I really don't fear tinker, so resolved moxen sitting on the board doing nothing don't bother me.  Tinker is starting to phase out of drain decks as is ... but again with orb and/or active viashino and/or active welder ... my opponents tinkers generally very weak.  Monkey also doesn't have the size-3 backside that is so important to the fish match.   

The move away from squee has already happend for me, but rather than Monkey I'm going back up to 4 Moons and 4 Orbs on the main.

[Myriad Games]

First of all, congrats on a sweet deck with lots of Mountains!

Secondly, I agree that Pyrostatic Pillar can be effective against control decks. That being said, I think that with Empty the Warrens in the environment, it's less effective because they don't need to storm up to 8-10 to win; they can storm up to 5 and have plenty of life left and a decent clock on the table. Of course, that clock is sufficiently nullified by Slice and Dice!

Thirdly, everyone is correct to point out that Blood Moon comes online slowly (unless of course the player gets Lotus into Blood Moon and you have to look at your Strip Mine in play and cry :shock:), but it's a final lock piece played turn 2 or 3 rather than a consistent turn one play. Orb of Dreams will certainly slow them down enough to let you get Blood Moon into play.

And of course, playing heavy red, you have access to 8 of the best counterspells in Vintage post-board. Looks like it's time to start running Nevinyrral's Disk and Artifact Blast again! 

[Harlequin]

I would definately agree with Dan.  Blood moon is obviously increasingly insane the earlier you can get it down.  The other support of that is usually, I need shops in the early game as well.  The deck is designed to run on 3 or 4 mana, and thats why the Sims are key to ramping up CIPT mountains for the win.  But generally there are situations were its best to hold off on moon for maybe a turn to get some more Shop-tastic threats down.

I will at least aknowledge that the power level of pyro has decreased as a result of ETW.  But drain decks still need to dig around to find thier Warrens.  Obviously, I don't expect to win the game simply by resolving a single Pyrostatic.. but If I can get it online before they do all thier merchant scrolling and brainstorming ... it can definately speed up the clock.  If I can back that with a few Viashino's or Simulacrums standing guard agianst the 1/1 army, I can most likely eek out those last 4 points of damage before they can swing for 20 through my blockers.  Remember, outside of Crypt I and the occational Shop -> Null rod -> burn for 1... The deck doesn't deal itself damage.

Also, It limits them to one attempt to make dudes.  By that time they are generally down around 6 or so life ... so if I can force them to chump block down thier army, there is little they can do to recover.

[yespuhyren]

I actually have been in love with this deck since last night when I found out about it.  The current list I am testing is:

4 Shop
4 Bazaar
8 Mountain
1 Strip

9 SoLoMoxVaultCrypt

4 Welder
3 Solemn
3 Sundering
4 Heretic

1 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Orb of Dreams
3 Crucible
4 Null Rod
4 Gamble

[Implacable]

I actually have been in love with this deck since last night when I found out about it.  The current list I am testing is:

4 Shop
4 Bazaar
8 Mountain
1 Strip

9 SoLoMoxVaultCrypt

4 Welder
3 Solemn
3 Sundering
4 Heretic

1 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Orb of Dreams
3 Crucible
4 Null Rod
4 Gamble

The best thing about this deck, in my opinion, is that it gets amazing card advantage through its Simulacrums and great virtual card advantage through Blood Moon.  Because it's hard for a Mono-Red deck to get card advantage, this list takes away one of the fundamental disadvantages of Stax: that is can't win the card advantage war.  While it's true that not have Chalice hurts the deck, it does have Blood Moon, which is probably the best hoser in Type 1, and it uses Gamble, which is criminally underplayed and can be used as Blood Moons 5-8 when you have sufficient cards in hand.  Boarding Chalice and Sphere would be a good idea against combo, but realistically, Orb of Dreams and Blood Moon are probably even better than Chalice at Sphere when it comes to all-around mana disruption, even against Long.

[madmanmike25]

In fact instead of Solemn Simulacrum, I could almost see Juggernauts in this deck......

That's like replacing thirst with sea drake in slaver.

On that note, pure combo decks like Grim Long or Pitch long have proven to be a decently bad match-up for the deck.  They can race the hate, or simply sit on a winning hand until they draw into some bounce.  This is where I wish I had Juggernaught or something else to speed up a win.

Guess Crankster might wanna consider testing those sea drakes out?

@ Harlequin
I have a question,  how much has Blood Moon hurt your Bazaar's and Workshops?  Also, the last list you posted shows 22 mana sources, does Blood Moon come down fast enough?  I'll repeat myself from the earlier post and say the mana seems a tad light.

[vroman]

yesuphren:
if you play crucible, fetchland(s) are in order.

I forgot about eon hub vs ichorid. but its terrible! eon hub does nothing to disrupt their gravetroll+bazaar mega mill engine that will find ancient grudge very easily. at 5 mana eon hub is probably too slow to matter vs oath, and is subpar in all other matchups. ensnaring bridge is way cheaper vs oath, and just as easy for them to remove. Id rather board tormod for ichorid and jester for oath, or perhaps sideboard chalice.

blood moon is that good? just to hose fetchlands or what? bc basic island has always been the most problematic mana source to disrupt.

[yespuhyren]

yesuphren:
if you play crucible, fetchland(s) are in order.

EDIT: This would actually not be good at all.  Fetchland + Orb of Dreams = BAAAAD.  Comes into play tapped, then land fetched comes into play tapped. 

I forgot about eon hub vs ichorid. but its terrible! eon hub does nothing to disrupt their gravetroll+bazaar mega mill engine that will find ancient grudge very easily. at 5 mana eon hub is probably too slow to matter vs oath, and is subpar in all other matchups. ensnaring bridge is way cheaper vs oath, and just as easy for them to remove. Id rather board tormod for ichorid and jester for oath, or perhaps sideboard chalice.

I didn't say it was a good card, I'm just commenting on why I figured it was in his list.

blood moon is that good? just to hose fetchlands or what? bc basic island has always been the most problematic mana source to disrupt.

Its not that it hurts fetchlands.  The point is that even if your opponent can fetch out a basic island, they are playing a U/R deck.  This means that decks like gifts/combo are completely cut off from black, and if you do play it early enough they are also cut off from double blue as well.  Fish can't get white mana without drawing a plains (if they even play it) and gifts can't get black mana.

[vroman]

the positive synergy of singlton fetchland+crucible, outweighs the dissynergy of singlton fetchland+dreamball.

have you ever seen a gifts pile like: [petal, lotus, jet, blank]? I sure have. black mana definitely exists outside of underground sea. if you manage to get blood moon+null rod, then I guess you are set.

[yespuhyren]

Well that is why we play 4 Blood Moon 4 Null Rod, as well as Heretic+Dreamball combo (Artifact comes into play tapped, you blow it up EOT, and you can blow up another on your turn successfully eliminating 2 artifact sources before they go)

*****************************************************************************************

Now that we have access to so many basic lands, here is a list of red cards I have made that could now become viable options in this deck that no one has really talked about yet (so cards like gamble and raze are excluded).  I have gone through all the red cards legal in T1, though I feel this are the best possible inclusions and possible hidden gems at the moment:

Akroma, Angel of Fury - One for late game, uncounterable, hard to get rid of by most accounts, pumpable to huge extremes because you will have MANY mountains.  I would think playing this as a 1/2 of could be very useful.

Avatar of Fury - This card is crazy late game, and because this deck doesn't destroy lands really, and opponents will play out their lands, this card could be good.  This would be more of a surprise thing, and would likely switch in and out of the decks, because opponents might play around it being there.  Could be interesting, though less of a guaranteed kill as Akroma.

Blood Knight - While this card is nothing special, it is a 2/2 that has protection from virtually all creatures and removal that is played by fish.  The creatures fish seems to play now:

Kataki
Jotun Grunt
Meddling Mage
Savannah Lions
Isamaru
True Believer

And first strike means it can be blocking a lot of other creatures and survive especially SS and Goblins

Goblin Piledriver
Dark Confidant
Dimir Cutpurse

And many other creatures.  This could likely be a viable SB card against Fish.

Burning Wish - This could be a good 1-of, with possible sideboard bombs like:

Slice and Dice
Boiling Seas
Flamebreak

And many others

Dwarven Miner and Blastminer - Repetitive destruction of Nonbasic lands, helps to establish position, especially with a Blood Moon on the table.  With Slice and Dice in the board, Miner is better than the Blastminer, because although it doesn't have Morph, the 1/2 instead of 1/1 means it can survive your own Slice and Dices.  With Sharpshooter in the board, Blastminer is probalby better.

Goblin Sharpshooter - Say no to Empty the Warrens, Welders, Confidants, Gobbos, Lions, Kataki, and more.

Jaya - She's strong, she blows stuff up, and she comes in a leather suit that can be foily and Japanese for you english card haters.  What else you want?

Magus of the Scroll - Like Cursed Scroll, but not affected by Null Rod.  Affected by STP instead.

Price of Progress - Punish decks playing many many nonbasics.  This would compliment a more aggressive list possibly running Juggernauts, Pyrostatic Pillar, etc.

Ruination - Brutal late game card that will wreck many opponents and leave you mostly unscathed

Words of War - Potentially very strong card when you are in control

********************************************************************************************

So, everyone.  Prepare yourselves for the strangest workshop deck you have likely ever seen.  This is just the test list, but I'll keep everyone posted:

// Lands
    8  Mountain
    1  Barbarian Ring
    2  Bazaar
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    1  Strip Mine

// Creatures
    4  Goblin Welder
    4  Solemn Simulacrum
    2  Duplicant
    3  Viashino Heretic

// Spells
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Trinisphere
    3  Null Rod
    4  Blood Moon
    4  Orb of Dreams
    3  Crucible of Worlds
    4  Chalice of the Void
    4  Sphere of Resistance

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4  Blood Knight
SB: 4 Jester's Cap
SB: 3 Goblin Sharpshooter

[vroman]

so far Ive tested this deck online w the following results
oath = lose 0-2
foodchain goblins = lose 0-2
suicide black = lose 0-2
unidentified tendrils = lose 0-1
monored goblins = lose 0-1
true, this is far from a "metagame snapshot", but thats a lot of zeros.

[yespuhyren]

so far Ive tested this deck online w the following results
oath = lose 0-2
foodchain goblins = lose 0-2
suicide black = lose 0-2
unidentified tendrils = lose 0-1
monored goblins = lose 0-1
true, this is far from a "metagame snapshot", but thats a lot of zeros.

If any metagame had that much bad aggro, you would sideboard accordingly, though it is hard to believe those would be the results since I have just won three matches in a row against Tier 1 combo, and I just 4-0'd Sui black and 2-1'd Landstill...

Regardless of my wins and your losses, this is merely a starting point of a randomly brainstormed up list of cards and far undertested and underdeveloped list.  This will definitely need tweaking, as every deck does.  Just look how far your Ubastax list went from being a U/R concoction with Candelabra and Citanul Flute to the monster it is now.

Not to mention UbaStax doesn't exactly have the most favorable matchup against Monored OR foodchain goblins, with oath being alright if you are playing Caps, which this also plays.

[Harlequin]

@ Madmanmike
- Jauggernaughts:  I don't think I made my point, what I should have said was - "This is the _only_ match where I wish I Juggernaughts" When It comes down to it, Simulacrum is better at the 4 mana level because at Shop +1 I still consider myself at the utility level.  If I wanted a win-only card, then I would go to the 5 level and pick up Razormane.

- Of course running shop and bazaar in a deck with blood moon has its disadvantages.  However, I would say (and did say in reply #18) That Blood moon can be an advantage.  Very little in te deck is "Big Artifacts."  The deck needs shop to power down a few cards in the begining, but there are definately times when I use bloodmoon as a shop to converter. 

@Eon Hub in general - It was there as a catch-all.  In original builds it's primary use was to make my Soul Gourger and Razormane have no drawback.  But that was just too flashy.  Hub is a great card game 2 esp with people siding in more Katakis and Flux.  Aslo Hub was played in a time when Confidant Stax was popping up.. So it was meta-fear. 

@Yespuhyren
- I don't particularly like your board.  I don't like Sharpshooter because he is counterable.  Slice and Dice is only stifleable ... wich is relevant when facing ETW.  Also I'm not sure I'm feeling the Blood Knight either, I guess he's just different than Dart.  Cap and Crypt are fine.  Not running REBs is a mistake I think.

- At your main deck, as I've said before I really don't think that Sphere of resistance adds too much "goodness" to the deck.  With the moons and the rods, My main plan at least is to color screw them.  It doesn't really matter how much Brianstorm costs when they only have 1 blue on the board.  I just think Pyrostatics has better game over Sphere.  Another small but important problem is that your running Vault over Crypt.  Both Vault and Crypt help equally to powering down turn 1 Orb.  However when it comes to Drawing it AFTER Orb is down ... Vault is obvisouly worse.  Also Crypt Mountain -> Moon is easier than Mountain, Mox, Valut, Moon, burn for 1. 

- At Crucible.  I don't really see what Crucible offers your deck.  Especially-- without gamble for strip.

@Vroman's testing.  I would be interested to know what deck ~this~ is.  If its one of my lists, then I will agree that goblins and Oath are bad matches.  And tendrils ain't that good either (sui ... well its sui, so I havent really tested it enough, it doesn't seem like it would be that bad, unless they have darkblasts and edicts all over the place).  Also if its one of the lists above then I would also concede that those decks are not optimal.  After saturday,  I'll post my most recent deck that (hopefully) addresses the "why do I loose to Agro?" problem.  To be honest, I think this thread is a bit pre-mature.  This deck is still evolving.

[yespuhyren]

I was just trying not to lose to tendrils.  Again, I agree that this deck is stille evolving, and by no means even remotely finished.  I am not happy with the results I'm getting yet, but as someone as completely dedicated to shops as I am, it is part of my responsibility to test everything and try to improve everything.  Whether or not this deck goes anywhere is besides, the point, for me it is all about learning the ins and outs so I can play my own version of Shops every time.