[Results] Jersey Tournament 3-17-07

[desolutionist]

28 people, cut to top 8 after 5 rounds, split in the finals

1st: Mox Sapphire
2nd: Beta Mana Vault, Alpha Mana Vault, or Mana Drain
3rd-4th: $40 store credit
5th-8th: a pack?

<3 Shawn Anthony <3 (2.5 Grim) 1st
4x Polluted Delta
2x Bloodstained Mire
3x Underground Sea
1x Badlands
1x Tolarian Academy
3x Grim Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Demonic Tutor
4x Brainstorm
4x Duress
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Timetwister
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Tinker
1x Memory Jar
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Necropotence
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Pearl
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Chain of Vapor
2x Cabal Therapy
1x Mind's Desire

Anthony Grasso (BPS) 1st
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Ruby
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Timewalk
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Rebuild
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal
1x Library of Alexandria
1x Tolarian Academy
2x Merchant Scroll
3x Intution
4x Accumulated Knowledge
3x Dark Confidant
3x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
3x Snow-covered Island
3x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
4x Mana Drain
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm   

Harriet Cooper (Goblins) 3rd
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Mountain
4x Plateau
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
2x Wooded Foothills
4x Goblin Lackey
2x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Piledriver
3x Goblin Vandal
4x Goblin Warchief
2x Gorilla Shman
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4x Mogg Fanatic
2x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Black Lotus
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Fireblast
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Mox Ruby
2x Price of Progress
2x Chain Lightning   

Jason Portizo (BPS) 4th
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Ruby
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Timewalk
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Rebuild
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal
1x Library of Alexandria
1x Tolarian Academy
2x Merchant Scroll
3x Intution
4x Accumulated Knowledge
3x Dark Confidant
3x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
3x Snow-covered Island
3x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
4x Mana Drain
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm   

Raffaele Forino (5c Stax) 5th
4x Mishra Workshop
4x Wasteland
4x City of Brass
3x Gemstone Mine
4x Sphere of Resistance
1x Stripmine
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Barbarian Ring
1x Bazaar of Bagdad
4x Smokestack
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Ruby
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Memory Jar
1x Triskelion
1x Karn Silver Golem
4x Goblin Welder
2x Powder Keg
1x Trinisphere
1x Darkblast
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Balance
3x Crucible of Worlds
1x Tinker
3x Tanglewire
1x Sundering Titan   

Bernie Parisi (BPS) 6th
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Ruby
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Timewalk
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Rebuild
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal
1x Library of Alexandria
1x Tolarian Academy
2x Merchant Scroll
3x Intution
4x Accumulated Knowledge
3x Dark Confidant
3x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
3x Snow-covered Island
3x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
4x Mana Drain
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm   

Joe Davis ("Repeal Gifts") 7th
3x Merchant Scroll
3x Gift's Ungiven
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Dark Ritual
2x Repeal
1x Pyroblast
1x Recoup
1x Sol Ring
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Ruby
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Timewalk
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Rebuild
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal
1x Library of Alexandria
1x Tolarian Academy
3x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
2x Island
2x Underground Sea
3x Volcanic Island
1x Snow-covered Island
4x Mana Drain
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm   

Edward Carey (U/W Fish) 8th
4x Flooded Strand
1x Windswept Heath
1x Polluted Delta
4x Wasteland
4x Tundra
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Stripmine
3x Jotun Grunt
4x Kataki War's Wage
3x Savannah Lions
4x Meddling Mage
2x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
2x Trickbind
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Timewalk
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sappharie
1x Mox Pearl
3x Null Rod
1x Misdirection
1x Echoing Truth
1x Mystical Tutor
2x Swords to Plowshares    

I'm pretty sure, and completely wrong, that BPS stands for "Bob Pwns Scrubs"; its bad.

METAGAME
2x U/W Fish
1x Workshop Aggro
2x Grim Long
2x EBA
1x Ichorid
1x Goblins
1x Affinity
1x 5 Color Stax
1x Mono Green Aggro
3x Gifts
1x Ritual Gifts
2x Control Slaver
1x Bob-bomberman
1x Mono Black Discard
1x Academy Candelabra
1x TMWA
1x 2 Land Belcher
4x BPS
1x Oath
1x Urbanafish

[Tobi]

No Sideboards?

[desolutionist]

I only know my own.  The source where I got the decklists from didn't have them listed.

3 Thrashing Wumpus
3 Night's Whisper
2 Rebuild
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Cabal Pit
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Windfall
1 Empty the Warrens

[Midknight]

Wish I could have made it out  . I was bury in about a foot of snow that fell the whole day before. Plus the price of gas is outragous right now, and the toll pike fees. I will be sure to make my way to blue bell in about two weeksl. As far as I know, Matt, and Dan are going along. Maybe Shawn and Evenpence.

[yespuhyren]

What a crazy meta you guys got over there

2/28 decks = shops, 50% T8.  Booya.  Props to those two brave fellows.

[Nehptis]

Congrats to the winners.

Logical Grouping of the metagame.  Why? Why not? Or perhaps I like to point out reasons to ban YWill, even if its only a single report.

METAGAME
10x Will based Combo ----- 5x Top Eight
5x Fish / EBA ------------------1x Top Eight
2x Workshop ------------------1x Top Eight
1x Goblins ----------------------1x Top Eight
1x Ichorid
1x Affinity
1x Mono Green Aggro
2x Control Slaver
1x Bob-bomberman
1x Mono Black Discard
1x Academy Candelabra
1x TMWA
1x 2 Land Belcher
1x Oath

[ashiXIII]

Congrats to the winners.

Logical Grouping of the metagame.  Why? Why not? Or perhaps I like to point out reasons to ban YWill, even if its only a single report.

METAGAME
10x Will based Combo ----- 5x Top Eight
5x Fish / EBA ------------------1x Top Eight
2x Workshop ------------------1x Top Eight
1x Goblins ----------------------1x Top Eight
1x Ichorid
1x Affinity
1x Mono Green Aggro
2x Control Slaver
1x Bob-bomberman
1x Mono Black Discard
1x Academy Candelabra
1x TMWA
1x 2 Land Belcher
1x Oath

OH MY GOD!!!111 LACKEY NEEDDS TO BE BANNED!! 100% OF GOBLINZ TOP 8ED!!1

[JustABee]

This is Bernie (6th place w00t w00t)
and here is the only reason i'm actually replying to this thread...

I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that BPS stands for "Bob Pwns Scrubs"; its bad.

BPS does not stand for Bob Pwns Scrubs

That would be funny though hehe.
Maybe i'll post what it actually stands for later.
Its really not all that creative nor does it really matter.
But I just thought I'd put that rumor to rest.

Secondly,

Joe Davis (Jank) 7th

I think that (Jank) is a incorrect for the deck Joe was playing.
Gifts or Repeal Gifts are probably better suited.

Thirdly,

OH MY GOD!!!111 LACKEY NEEDDS TO BE BANNED!! 100% OF GOBLINZ TOP 8ED!!1

I also second the motion that lackey be banned soley based on the fact that 100% of goblins T8ed.
oh that and the only goblin that should see play in t1 are those of the welding variety, but thats just my opinion.

[Ultima]

METAGAME

1x Goblins ----------------------1x Top Eight

OH MY GOD!!!111 LACKEY NEEDS TO BE BANNED!! 100% OF GOBLINZ TOP 8ED!!1

But you Forced the Lackey and got beaten by Chalice backed other guys...  (Except the game she drew an extra card from somewhere and got a game loss).

[Nehptis]

OH MY GOD!!!111 LACKEY NEEDDS TO BE BANNED!! 100% OF GOBLINZ TOP 8ED!!1

I'm pretty sure that my point is to the imbalance of YWill combo.  But, if you're just being sarcastic then nice work. Otherwise comment on the imbalance of YWill and the fact the it continues to stifle T1.

[desolutionist]

This is Bernie (6th place w00t w00t)
and here is the only reason i'm actually replying to this thread...

I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that BPS stands for "Bob Pwns Scrubs"; its bad.

BPS does not stand for Bob Pwns Scrubs

That would be funny though hehe.
Maybe i'll post what it actually stands for later.
Its really not all that creative nor does it really matter.
But I just thought I'd put that rumor to rest.

Secondly,

Joe Davis (Jank) 7th

I think that (Jank) is a incorrect for the deck Joe was playing.
Gifts or Repeal Gifts are probably better suited

Ok, updated.

[ashiXIII]

METAGAME

1x Goblins ----------------------1x Top Eight

OH MY GOD!!!111 LACKEY NEEDS TO BE BANNED!! 100% OF GOBLINZ TOP 8ED!!1

But you Forced the Lackey and got beaten by Chalice backed other guys...  (Except the game she drew an extra card from somewhere and got a game loss).

That wasn't the point, really. I was just being a sarcastic asshole. The whole "Ban Will!" thing is starting to tick me off. Obviously Will is good and it's annoying that people keep complaining about it and losing to it. Yes, Goblins pwned me in the top 8, but that wasn't why I picked that archetype. It's because it was the only archetype that put 100% into the top 8. Also, the game where I Forced Lackey was the same game she got the game loss. Game 1 there was never a Lackey, and game 3 there was a first turn Lackey that I tried to CoV, but it got REB'ed because I'm retarded.

I'm pretty sure that my point is to the imbalance of YWill combo.  But, if you're just being sarcastic then nice work. Otherwise comment on the imbalance of YWill and the fact the it continues to stifle T1.

Will doesn't stifle Vintage, it defines it. You're going to misunderstand what I mean by that, but it doesn't matter.

Ok, updated.

In the end, we are all just a bunch of magic players. 0-2 Drop > Blitzkrieg AMAZING

Call it whatever. I don't care. I know you were just taking a playful stab at me. By the way, nice job on finally splitting something.

[desolutionist]

Call it whatever. I don't care. I know you were just taking a playful stab at me. By the way, nice job on finally splitting something.

I got lucky pairings. (mono black round 2, CS round 3, goblins in top 4, etc.)  Or maybe its because I didn't have to play against Seth for the first time in 3+ tournaments.

[ashiXIII]

Call it whatever. I don't care. I know you were just taking a playful stab at me. By the way, nice job on finally splitting something.

I got lucky pairings. (mono black round 2, CS round 3, goblins in top 4, etc.)  Or maybe its because I didn't have to play against Seth for the first time in 3+ tournaments.

You might be right. We know it had nothing to do with your play skill. Twenty minute Will turn --> fizzle  WTF?!

[desolutionist]

Call it whatever. I don't care. I know you were just taking a playful stab at me. By the way, nice job on finally splitting something.

I got lucky pairings. (mono black round 2, CS round 3, goblins in top 4, etc.)  Or maybe its because I didn't have to play against Seth for the first time in 3+ tournaments.

You might be right. We know it had nothing to do with your play skill. Twenty minute Will turn --> fizzle  WTF?!

It just shows you how pathetic our metagame is.

[TD]

  Or maybe its because I didn't have to play against Seth for the first time in 3+ tournaments.

Yea, not playing Seth is tech! Hey congrats on the split. Going into the finals I seriously thought you were just going to own me like you did in the first round and take the sapphire. Overall it was a great tournament and I would strongly recommend to anyone who can make it to any future NJ tournaments to definitely go. I know the weather wasn't the greatest for that weekend but we still had a decent turnout. I honestly feel with spring coming, any future Mt. Holly events should be able to attract 35+ players.   

[Nehptis]

Will doesn't stifle Vintage, it defines it. You're going to misunderstand what I mean by that, but it doesn't matter.

I think one can make a claim that Will defines Vintage.  But, I think that's a dangerous ideal to cling to because its Will is to narrowly focused which in turn narrows the focus of the format that it is "defining".  Instead a better ideal is that Vintage is defined by fast mana.   Fast mana is accessible to everydeck and can be controlled and even stopped by other decks.  MoxLotus is fast mana, Rituals are fast mana, Drain is fast mana, Lackeys, Workshops, ESG, etc. are fast mana.  They are simiara in their intent but diverse in their execution and useage.  Count how many decks use fast mana vs Will.

Will is just Will, imbalanced in that it goes over the top in breaking a fundamenatal rule of the game, card limits.  These cards are restricted and can only be played once, Will doesn't care.  You can only play 4 Rituals and will most likely only draw 1 or 2 a game, Will doesn't care.  Sure there are other cards like Recoup and Wishes that let you replay a Card.  Put that's the fundamental and greatly impactful difference.  They let you replay a single card not your entire GY for a low cost.

If too many players continue to cling to the "Ywill defines us ideal" then I fear that at the end of the day those players will be the few Vintage players left if tournies continue to post top heavy Ywill Combo based results.

[Midknight]

I dont know why people are targeting out Yawgmoth's Will. You could rag on about alot of broken cards, thats what vintage is. All the really broken cards are restricted. The only cards baned are the anti cards.

If it comes to a time where it gets to broken in a certain deck, making the meta game very unheathy, they should either print a card in one of the new sets to deal with it or restrict other cards played in that deck.

Personally I play Boomerman, and yes I do fear Will, I build my deck to deal with it. Main deck Tormod's Crypts lots of counter. A single counter can stop it.

[zeus-online]

I dont know why people are targeting out Yawgmoth's Will. You could rag on about alot of broken cards, thats what vintage is. All the really broken cards are restricted. The only cards baned are the anti cards.

If it comes to a time where it gets to broken in a certain deck, making the meta game very unheathy, they should either print a card in one of the new sets to deal with it or restrict other cards played in that deck.

Personally I play Boomerman, and yes I do fear Will, I build my deck to deal with it. Main deck Tormod's Crypts lots of counter. A single counter can stop it.

Basicly...alot of the other powerful restricted cards are used merely to find will, or to play it with, fast mana + tutors will let you combo out with will extremely fast.

A card does not need to be broken in one particular deck to get banned, it just needs to distort the meta-game to a high enough degree - And hate cards < Broken cards....so there goes the whole point of printing an anti-will card...heck Tormod's crypt counters it for 0 and that is rarely enough.

And one last thing, a single counter is rarely enough, unless the player is in a situation where he will loose unless he does something and is trying to squeeze out a win.

/Zeus

[Midknight]

Well, how many non-anti cards are baned in Vintage. The anweser is none. So its unlikely it will ever happen.

Uppering your counter wins the counter wars agaisnt Yawgmoth's Will, as long as you have the mana for it.

I would be shock if they baned a non-anti card in vintage. If they ever decide to, I think Yawgmoth's Will would be first on the list over anything else. But its not going to happen, the format is for brokeness.

If people dont like borkeness, Legacy is the perfect format.

[zeus-online]

Are you talking about anti (I.E. A card used against some other card/strategy) or Ante ?

/Zeus

[Midknight]

Are you really serious, you dont know what im talking about. Example Contract from Below, thats a anti card.

I also forgot there are two other non-anti cards baned from Vintage. They both require you to flip the card. Fallen Star and Chaos Orb.

There not going to baned Yawgmoth's Will, thats not what what the format is about.

[zeus-online]

...You clearly have no idea what i was talking about in the first place.

The cards which you are talking about are ANTE cards.

What i'm talking about is cards used against other cards/strategies.

There is a difference between the word "Ante" and "Anti".

/Zeus