Type 4 [Future Sight]

[darkmindtone]

Half the set has been revealed so far on Salvation and barring any errors in accuracy, there have been a number of possible additions to people's stacks:

Seht's Tiger   2ww
Creature - Cat   (TS) R

Flash (You may play this spell any time you could play an instant.)
When Seht's Tiger comes into play, you gain protection from the color of your choice until end of turn. (You can't be targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by anything of the chosen color.)
Illus. Thomas Gianni   

#31/180      3/3

I love this guy, and despite the incredibly high power level of a T4 stack, he appears like he should be able to hold his own.  There are just too many applications to name, but it will be so sweet owning Urza's Rage/Seering Wind with a 3/3

Delay   1u
Instant   U

Counter Target spell. If the spell is countered in this way, remove it from the game with three time counters on it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard. If it doesn't have suspend, it gains suspend.

I don't know what to make of this card in T4.  My playgroup plays with suspend still counting for your spell for the turn, so that raises the power level of this card somewhat.  Still, time will tell if this card has what it takes

Venser, Shaper Savant   2uu
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard   R

Flash (You may play this spell any time you could play an instant)
When Venser, Shaper Savant comes into play, return target spell or permanent to its owner's hand.

His marvels of artifice pale in comparison to the developing machinery of his mind.
Illus. Aleksi Briclot   

#46/180     2/2

I'm definitely a fan of this guy.  Mystic Snake Remand-style as well as instant speed bounce w/a 2/2 body appears to be worthy of inclusion

Spin into Myth   4u
Instant   (TS) U

Put target creature on top of its owner's library, then fateseal 2. (Look at the top two cards of an opponent's library, then put any number of them on the bottom of that player's library and the rest on top in any order)
Illus. David Day      

At first I didn't really think much of this card, but it's basically creature removal with benefits, so I see no reason not to include it over many other targeted removal options

Sprout Swarm   1g
Instant   C

Convoke (Each creature you tap while playing this spell reduces its total cost by 1 or by one mana of that creature's color)
Buyback 3 (You may pay an additional 3 as you play this spell. If you do, put this card into your hand as it resolves.)
Put a 1/1 green Saproling creature token into play.
Illus. Chippy   

#138/180

My playgroup played with "Blast From The Past" for a short while, but quickly discovered it was far too powerful for inclusion after it continually won almost all games it dodged getting countered.  This appears to be a fixed version of it, and hopefully isn't too powerful for most stacks

Tolaria West   
Land   U

Tolaria West comes into play tapped.
: Add to your mana pool
Transmute 1{U}{U} (1{U}{U}, Discard this card: Search your library for a card with a converted mana cost of 0, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library. Play only as a sorcery.)
Illus. Khang Le   

#173/180
   
This is the one I'm least sure of, but with enough quality lands included in a stack (or 0cc cards), this card holds significant  power
   

[Mr. Nightmare]

I'm Super Excited about that new Enchant Instant in a Graveyard.  If you haven't seen it, here it is:

[darkmindtone]

That card is amazing if your group is flexible with the one-spell-a-turn rule.  Like a more busted Yawgmoth's Agenda in a sense. 

[Mr. Nightmare]

My group uses any excuse to break the Rule of Law possible.  Anytime it says "Play without paying it's Mana cost" it's golden, meaning Spelljack is busted, and Grinning Totem is fair.

[Mr. Nightmare]

SO fun.

[darkmindtone]

That card seems like fun, but I don't really want to be the person playing that.  Just looks to make games get out of control, albeit in a very fun way. 

A few other cards for Type 4 have popped up since my initial post.  We'll start with an almost auto-include in all stacks:

Scourge of Kher Ridges   6rr
Creature - Dragon   R

Flying
1{R}: Scourge of Kher Ridges deals 2 damage to each creature without flying.
5{R}: Scourge of Kher Ridges deals 6 damage to each other creature with flying.
      
6/6

This guy is just awesome.  He can kill everyone but himself all without targeting.  Definitely good times.

Riddle of Lightning   3rr
Instant   C

Choose target creature or player. Scry 3, then reveal the top card of your library. Riddle of Lightning deals damage equal to that card’s converted mana cost to that creature or player.

I may be overvaluing this, but this does seem solid in a format with casting costs like Type 4.  It may not be Searing Wind or Rage, but it can occasionally deal more and it always assists with drawing better.

[darkmindtone]

This card looks absolutely ridiculous:

Take Possession   5uu
Sorcery   R

Split Second (As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't play spells or activated abilities that aren't mana abilities.)
Gain control of target permanent. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)
   
#44/180
   
This is going to be an absolute staple for every stack probably.  Mist Dragon?  I'll take it.  Legacy Weapon?  I'll take it.  The situations are endless.

Pact of Negation   0
Instant   R

Pact of Negation is blue.
Counter target spell.
At the beginning of your next upkeep, pay 3{U}{U}. If you don't, you lose the game.
   
#42/180
   
The big card of the set.  This is just a generic counter in Type 4, but possibly still worth inclusion if you need a higher concentration

Angel of Salvation   6ww
Creature - Angel   R

Flash, convoke
Flying
When Angel of Salvation comes into play, prevent 5 damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures and/or players.
   
#1/180   5/5

She's no Bogardan Hellkite, but the Flash ability makes her playable by most standards.  The prevention bonus gives even more incentive for inclusion.

[Mr. Nightmare]

Just so you guys know, I'll be doing a Type 4 set review for mtgSalvation sometime in the next couple weeks.  I plan to make this a mainstay, so keep your eyes open for it!  More info when I have it.

I'm super excited, I think this is one of the best T4 sets in a while.

[carlossb]

Just so you guys know, I'll be doing a Type 4 set review for mtgSalvation sometime in the next couple weeks.

Great news!

By the way, of all type4 writers, I think Mastriano´s ones were (are) the most entertaining ones, like this one or that one. I´m not suggesting to copy his style, but to have them as a reference.

[RaZe]

What is the consensus on the pacts? I'm thinking it's a 'free' spell aka. doesn't count toward your 1/turn.

So far my picks are

Angel of Salvation
Pact of Salvation
Pact of Negation
Take Possesion
Vesner, Shaper Savant
Spellweaver Volute
Slaughter Pact
Riddle of Lightning
Scourge of Kher Ridges

[Hi-Val]

I think Jhoira's going to be my girl from this set. It's like a fair Johnny, Combo Player, and it really opens up interesting strategies. Not only is it a not-awful creature, but it makes other creatures that you run not-awful because you don't have to use a spell on your own turn to bring them into play. I see it as a very powerful, but very fair card. Imagine setting up Decree of Annihilation at 4 counters and then put something nasty like Reya coming up right after it! Savage!

[carlossb]

My top10 picks:

10. Angel of Salvation
9. Akroma's Memorial
8.Take Possession
7.Seht's Tiger
6.Scourge of Kher Ridges
5.Barren Glory
4.Venser, Shaper Savant
3.Riddle of Lightning
2.Heartwood Storyteller
1. Spellweaver Volute
0. (Already banned) Whetwheel


EDIT: I dismissed Jhoira of the Ghitu at first, but it could be #5-6

[Mr. Nightmare]

Writing is wrapping up on the set review, should be coming soon.  BTW, Barren Glory is strictly worse than The Cheese Stands Alone, and no one plays that card.

[Harlequin]

What is the consensus on the pacts? I'm thinking it's a 'free' spell aka. doesn't count toward your 1/turn.

They way we play type 4, they would not nomormally count as a spell for turn.  Essentially the way we explain mana in type 4 is that you have the following ability.

: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.  This mana may only be used to pay for the cost of one spell each turn.  This mana does not cause mana burn.
Edit... : Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.   You may not use this mana to pay for more than one spell each turn.  This mana does not cause mana burn.

It plays differently from normal type 4:
1) It makes Pitch spells interesting because you actaully have to pay the pitch cost if you want to play the spell.
2) It gets rid of the old verson of the ACC rule.  So it weakens the bringers and kills fist of the suns.  But I never liked that rule.
3) It Atually makes lands and 1 mana cards more interesting.  Because you can tap your stalking stones to play a skullclamp, or tap Karakas to cast Swords to Plowshare without using up a spell for turn.
4) It means convoke is also cooler. 
5) It ugrades Paradice Mantle from - worthless in Type4 ... to actually decently good.  It doesn't cost a spell to play it, and with something like Storm heard or one dozen eyes ... you can cheat some extra spells durring your turn.
6) Dread Return doesn't cost a spell for turn on the flasback.
7) Suspended cards don't cost a spell for turn (most stacks already allow this)
8) In our Chaos stack, we have added Trinisphere.  Thats really interesting because it normally doesn't do anything ... but sometimes it means everything.   It shuts of the ability to play a card w/o spending your spell for turn (unless you have 3 lands in play).
9) The thing that I like MOST about this method of type 4 ... all of these interactions on this list can be derived from the definition of the ability!  No house rules that dictact what is and isnot a spell for turn.  Its all right in the description.  Simple, concise, and requires no memorization of house rules.
 

[Hi-Val]

But that rule completely eliminates using that mana on cards like Masticore or Armored Guardian.

[Harlequin]

Yeah, that wasn't intended.  What I ment was:

: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.   You may not use this mana to pay for more than one spell each turn.  This mana does not cause mana burn.

I just got my meaning messed up.

[darkmindtone]

After getting most of the cards I needed at the Pre, I made the necessary cuts and additions to the stack, and ended up only adding in 7 cards (keep in mind we play with no alternate costs rule so Pact of Negation is simply a worse Counterspell and suspending a card takes your spell for the turn).  Here is how I would rank them in power level:

7.  Spin Into Myth
6.  Seht's Tiger
5.  Venser, Shaper Servant
4.  Angel Of Salvation
3.  Scourge of Kher Ridges
2.  Sprout Swarm (why aren't more of you all including this card?)
1.  Take Possession

I was toying with the inclusion of Riddle With Lightning, but I'd rather have the consistent removal of Spin Into Myth rather than the gamble of that Erratic Explosion with Scry.  Overall I'd rate this set slightly better than Planar Chaos for Type 4, but coming up far short in comparison to Time Spiral (even considering the differences in set sizes). 

[Mr. Type 4]

Wow, this set is amazing.  I haven't had time to really delve into the possibilities for T4, but at the Pre-Re I saw like a billion things.  I'll comment on all of that soon.

@Harlequin: I've been toying with the idea of revamping the rules to explain "free play" cards for a while, and the rule I postulated was something like this:  "You may only draw upon your infinite mana for casting spells once per turn"

My play group was not really cool with that idea so it was shot down.  Maybe now is the time to look at that stuff again.

By the way, of all type4 writers, I think Mastriano´s ones were (are) the most entertaining ones, like this one or that one. I´m not suggesting to copy his style, but to have them as a reference.

You're my favorite, too, Carlos

@Mr. Nightmare - Good luck on your set review!  I'm pretty excited to read it myself.

[Hi-Val]

darkmindtone, you know that Jhoira doesn't actually cast the spell, she just removes them from the game, right? Maybe you aren't including that card when you talk about Suspending stuff. I don't see that mechanic as being spell-like any more than Quicksilver Amulet would be. Jhoira looks better than most of those cards on the list, probably excepting Take Posession.

[CHA1N5]

Jhoira is amazing in concept, but in practice 4 turns is way too long.  She won't make the cut in my stack.

The following cards are now in my stack:
Take Posession
Thunderblade Charge
Spellweaver Volute (about to be cut, though)
West Tolaria
Angel of Prevent 5 Damage
Delay
Scourge of Kher Ridges
Seht's Tiger
Venser
Akroma's Memorial (probably going to get cut, but it's fun for now)
Sprout Swarm!!!!!


We don't play that the Pacts don't count as your spell, so they don't make the cut.  (sooo many negatives)

[darkmindtone]

darkmindtone, you know that Jhoira doesn't actually cast the spell, she just removes them from the game, right? Maybe you aren't including that card when you talk about Suspending stuff. I don't see that mechanic as being spell-like any more than Quicksilver Amulet would be. Jhoira looks better than most of those cards on the list, probably excepting Take Posession.

To keep things simple and limit the amount of interpretation we the players have, our group reads card text literally, and thus it makes the suspend mechanic far worse than it would be in other stacks.  Since suspend says "At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter from that card. When the last is removed, play it without paying its mana cost. If it's a creature, it has haste".  I'm not implying that this is the correct method to play the format, but rather that it is what we do to keep it simple and allow for newcomers to pick up the cards and play with minimum confusion.  If we were to open the door on player modifications, it's only a matter of time before it leads to effects like free Bringers/Fist of the Suns, player-created cards, and player modifications to existing cards (this is what happened in the last playgroup I was in that attempted to bend the rules of Magic for this format).

If you play with suspend as free though, then Jhoira is beast and should be an auto-inclusion, as should Spellweaver Volute. 

[parallax]

I think that the alternate-cost rule that's easiest to interpret is "If you don't spend any mana to play the spell, then it doesn't count as your spell for the turn.". That covers all the good stuff like free counters and suspend but leaves the bringers alone. It just seems like the easiest rule to explain to a new player and the easiest to judge. It also makes Trinisphere a pretty decent card in certain circumstances.

[Necrologia]

I got sick of explaining the ACC rule to new players as well. My solution was even simpler: I write FREEBIE with a sharpie on any card that doesn't count as your spell for the turn. Similarly, Fist of Suns says "Your Spells gain FREEBIE."

It's so much simpilar to explain stuff, and it gives you another option to tweak the power level of cards if you really want. I currently run with a few FREEBIE counterspells to speed the game up, a combat trick or two, and some bringers.

[Mr. Type 4]

What about Reality Strobe?  It's not really that bad if your suspend spells are FREEBIES   It's a sorcery, but if you play it into suspend you'll get to do it a couple times without paying for it.  Could be just not as good as instant speed one time use stuff, though.

Does bouncing a spell with Venser actually counter it or do they still get the effect and it just goes back to hand?

I'd really like to try that Jhoria.  4 turns is an eternity, but it could actually be a really strong of forcing a bunch of good stuff into play.  The major problem, of course, is that if you put anything good on there, you're likely to die before it hits play.

[Mr. Type 4]

Sorry to dredge up this topic, but I think we REALLY overlooked Aven Mindsensor. It could be the second best card after Take Possession. It's small, but it's a flash creature with flying, which is good. 

I was playing Type 4 at Gencon and there were a good 1000 times when Mindcensor would have been amazing. 

It will effect general tutoring, Transmutes, Protean Hulk, Survival of the Fittest, even cards that search OTHER PEOPLE'S decks like Bribery and Seek.

Planar Portal becomes weak while Crown of Convergence remains awesome. 


If Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil is good enough to include, then Mindcensor probably is too.  I'll test it soon.