[Article] Another Ichorid Piece

[Vegeta2711]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/14098.html

Discussion can probably just continue in Smmenen's thread, I just wanted to post this in case anybody missed it.

[mongrel12]

How do you deal with the mirror?

[WilD]

Prays for Leyline and sides in his enchant hate I guess, depending on whether he thinks they play Leyline sb as well.

[LotusHead]

Card type: Land Creature
Arbor Dryad

Creature type: Forest Dryad

Power/Toughness:1/1

Casting cost:

Card text: (Dryad Arbor isn't a spell, it's affected by summoning sickness, and it has "Tap: Add G to your mana pool.")
Dryad Arbor is green.

Oracle text: (Dryad Arbor isn't a spell, it's affected by summoning sickness, and it has "Tap: Add G to your mana pool.")
Dryad Arbor is green.

I could have sworn that Summoning Sickness was an obsolete term like Buried or Fizzle.
Forest is a creature type now?

Weird.

Anyways, great non-premium Article.

I can't take Ichorid seriously (while piloting The Gilded Claw) as long as I continue to use Leyline as default Grave Hate SB tech. (I pack Chalice, so Tormod's Crypt is out for the most part).

Great tech witht he Blow Up Enchantments Spell for Free if Forest in play card.

[bleakill]

snip
it's affected by summoning sickness
/snip

Haha, did you expect "~this~ doesn't have haste" or something of that sort?

@Vegeta2711:

Great article, I have to say that I like your list better than Steve's. I'm a big fan of Leyline, it's great against all sorts of things. You seem to present fair judgment of both kill conditions; you are still keeping the ghoul setup, however, wouldn't the slots freed up by including zealot allow for including Unmask as well? I see that you treat unmask rather unfairly because in reality turn 1 hand disruption is still rarely seen even in the current ichorid builds. And great sideboard tech by the way.

[WilD]

Gotta say - love the deck, it feels much more resilient than Steve's. LOVE the Dryad Arbor tech even without testing, that's gonna go in for some more playtesting immediately.

[vartemis]

I myself was trying out other creatures to put in the deck.  Here are the ones I tried:

Ancestor's Chosen - possibly sideboard material.  Great to go off preemptively against combo.  With such an increase in life, it can be hard to get that high of a storm count.

Bogardan Hellkite  - takes out weenies, or does 10 damage in 1 turn.  With multiples you could return 2 and kill that turn.

Duplicant - great against opposing colossi (what is the plural of colossus?)

Iname, Death Aspect - fetches out spirits

Laquatus's Champion - can do 12 damage by itself in 1 turn.  Once again, returning 2 is game over.

Mindslicer- dumps hand. dumps opponents hand.

Palinchron - can untap a bazaar for another dredge

Petradon - better than sundering early game as it doesnt care what it takes.

Sundering Titan -  i shouldnt have to explain this.

Has anyone else tried other creatures?

j

[bleakill]

I'm currently testing 2x mindslicer maindeck, given it's like super-therapy #5,6. I used to run Chosen main and side, but with the current Long builds, it still doesn't seal the game. The problem with your list of creatures is that they never win _now_ like ghoul or flame-kin + zombies does. Mindslicer being an exception here since he's more of a disruption tool than an actual kill condition.

[LotusHead]

snip
it's affected by summoning sickness
/snip

Haha, did you expect "~this~ doesn't have haste" or something of that sort?

When was the last time you Summoned a Prodigal Sorcerer as opposed to Played a Prodigal Sorcerer?

[Demonic Attorney]

Let's have less debate about which terms have passed out of the Magic vernacular and more discussion of the substance of the article.  Thanks.

[yespuhyren]

I myself was trying out other creatures to put in the deck.  Here are the ones I tried:

Ancestor's Chosen - possibly sideboard material.  Great to go off preemptively against combo.  With such an increase in life, it can be hard to get that high of a storm count.

Bogardan Hellkite  - takes out weenies, or does 10 damage in 1 turn.  With multiples you could return 2 and kill that turn.

Duplicant - great against opposing colossi (what is the plural of colossus?)

Iname, Death Aspect - fetches out spirits

Laquatus's Champion - can do 12 damage by itself in 1 turn.  Once again, returning 2 is game over.

Mindslicer- dumps hand. dumps opponents hand.

Palinchron - can untap a bazaar for another dredge

Petradon - better than sundering early game as it doesnt care what it takes.

Sundering Titan -  i shouldnt have to explain this.

Has anyone else tried other creatures?

j

I still say against weenies just go for the Thunder Dragon.  He's a BEAST

[Implacable]

I've been testing a lot on MWS with Confidant Tendrils recently, and even with its slow speed have generally been outracing Ichorid decks with only Chalice & Therapy to disrupt.  I'd really recommend adding either Leyline or Unmask to any Ichorid maindeck.

[bleakill]

I've been testing a lot on MWS with Confidant Tendrils recently, and even with its slow speed have generally been outracing Ichorid decks with only Chalice & Therapy to disrupt.  I'd really recommend adding either Leyline or Unmask to any Ichorid maindeck.

His build includes Leyline maindeck. Unmask could be included rather painlessly as well.

[wethepeople]

One think I have taken into consideration is to cut Pithing Needle entirely from the deck, and use a single (if not two) Tropical Island(s), as well as one or two Dryad Arbors in the board, in which I can grab via Windswept Heath. (Rather than running four Arbors, and 3 Duals, I would run 1:1, and 5 Fetchlands.) This would allow me to use both Reverent Silence, and Chain of Vapor in one sideboard.

Chain can bounce opposing Needles, Crypts, Leylines, et cetera. I believe that Chain is necessary because I know that more people will be boarding Leyline once Future Sight is released, because it is clear that Ichorid, and Rector-Flash will be two popular decks in the format. The only thing that Pithing Needle has over CoV is that it has the ability to shut off Wastelands, however, I have found that a single activation of Bazaar can usually be good enough to really get the deck running.

If you are worried about the single land being destroyed, then you can either run two Trops, or two Arbors (one or the other). Running 1:1:5 and 4 of each removal spell (4 Silences, 4 Chains).

[ErkBek]

(Rather than running four Arbors, and 3 Duals, I would run 1:1, and 5 Fetchlands.) This would allow me to use both Reverent Silence, and Chain of Vapor in one sideboard.

This doesn't work in ichorid because your deck is dumped into your graveyard.

[WilD]

I've got to ask - for those that have been testing the Reverent Silence SB, what have you been siding out? for the 7 lands + 4 needles/silences, I've been taking out 4 Thugs and 4 Street Wraith + whatever feels good at the time. Is there some sweet sb tech I've been missing, or what?

[bleakill]

Depending on what they're playing, you may take out Leyline (if you run it of course) among other things. If you are on the draw, taking out Chalice seems to be logical because they might aggressively mull for a Crypt (more often than not) and you'll be too late with the CotV.

[wethepeople]

(Rather than running four Arbors, and 3 Duals, I would run 1:1, and 5 Fetchlands.) This would allow me to use both Reverent Silence, and Chain of Vapor in one sideboard.

This doesn't work in ichorid because your deck is dumped into your graveyard.

Not if there is a Leyline of the Void on your opponent's board.

[Warden]

About what creatures to run:
Ancestor's Chosen and Mindslicer and Flame-kin Zealot look to be the most logical secondary "return" creatures
while Satured Ghoul and Cephalid Sage should be the main targets in my opinnion
If youre wondering why Cephalid Sage, it's because she acts as another bazaar and adds consistancy/having a similar game (Bazaar #5,6,7)

Id be great if I could get some serious thoughts and reasoning on:
Bauble vs Unmask (looks 50/50)
Chalice vs Leyline (thinkin leyline)
Nether Shadow vs +1-2 dread / +1-3 Cephalid Sage

thanks

[wethepeople]

About what creatures to run:
Ancestor's Chosen and Mindslicer and Flame-kin Zealot look to be the most logical secondary "return" creatures
while Satured Ghoul and Cephalid Sage should be the main targets in my opinnion
If youre wondering why Cephalid Sage, it's because she acts as another bazaar and adds consistancy/having a similar game (Bazaar #5,6,7)

Id be great if I could get some serious thoughts and reasoning on:
Bauble vs Unmask (looks 50/50)
Chalice vs Leyline (thinkin leyline)
Nether Shadow vs +1-2 dread / +1-3 Cephalid Sage

thanks

The argument is between running Chalice or Leyline, but Unamsk versus Leyline. I myself wouldn't even consider Chalice of the Void a debatable slot, because it's one of the best cards in the deck right now.

Leyline has been tested over Unmask recently to win games versus the Ichorid mirror, Flash, as well as keep keep Goblin Welder, Yawgmoth's Will, et cetera out of the game.

Cephalid Sage does not work as additional Bazaars because it needs Bazaar to even get it into the graveyard. It can, but it plays entirely differently.

I currently run zero Baubles, Sutoured Ghoul+DBreath, three Dread Returns, and 2-3 Nether Shadows.

[mox apricot]

i believe ley line is much better than unmask,it doesn't require loosing a possable dredger. hits combo's pretty hard, as well as wleder. i'm also assuming that after fs is legal, ichorid will be a large part of the meta for a while. i've found that ichoird can turn three cabal therapy a good 3 times often enough, that is enough to nueter a hand with out the aid of unmask.
i've ofund chalice to be amazing, tempo is needed.

[XdeckX]

I've been testing the new Ichrorid build for the past week (with minor tweaks to suit my style) but 1) I'm still having difficulty putting the sideboard together and 2) I'm still not sure how to properly sideboard with this deck.

Right now I'm running the following in the board
4x Gemstone Mine
2x City of Brass
4x Emerald Charm
3x Chain of Vapor
2x Pithing Needle

I really hated dropping the Ancient Grudges I used to play but after having run into loads of Leyline it's become clear that the mayor threat to Ichorid (should it even still be called ichorid? ) is Leyline of the Void. No other card seems to hose it better.
Tormod's crypt usually is a 1-shot which most of the time isnt enough. I havent run into the new Jailor.

Any new ideas on what to put in the board?
And can someone with tournament experience give an insight on how (much) to board? My guess is after winning game 1 you just want to board as least as possible. You either find out what hate the enemy boarded in or you just win game 2 as well.

[mox apricot]

(Rather than running four Arbors, and 3 Duals, I would run 1:1, and 5 Fetchlands.) This would allow me to use both Reverent Silence, and Chain of Vapor in one sideboard.

This doesn't work in ichorid because your deck is dumped into your graveyard.

This works just fine in ichorid, if some one is disrupting your primary win condition/engine you won't be using it (i.e. it's been disrupted). You'll be attempting to bazaar into the missing peice of your antihate, be it mana or bounce/enchantment hate. Also, I have been running the tropicle island+fetches for a while. Weeding out land come in handy when you've got you engine back on line and are making up for the boarded out dredgers.
True it seems like a long shot to get off in time, but this is part of playing 1 trick pony like ichorid

[Warden]

This works just fine in ichorid, if some one is disrupting your primary win condition/engine you won't be using it (i.e. it's been disrupted). You'll be attempting to bazaar into the missing peice of your antihate, be it mana or bounce/enchantment hate. Also, I have been running the tropicle island+fetches for a while. Weeding out land come in handy when you've got you engine back on line and are making up for the boarded out dredgers.
True it seems like a long shot to get off in time, but this is part of playing 1 trick pony like ichorid

I sort-of get the logic in what you're saying but wouldn't it be alot easier just to take the mulligan if you dont have bazaar. You basically need Bazaar or Lion's Eye Diamond (Yes I run that) to get that initial self-discard. After that, you're set.
To help your deck's engine, run petrified field to protect bazaar and SB run gemstone mine/city of brass/lands you need for the SB cards.

Thanks for helping me with my questions before guys. Im testing without Unmask

[mox apricot]

you've misunderstood the situation... asuming you've draw the perfect bazaar chalice leyline led grave troll type hand... it means nothing if your looking at a leyline on the other end...that is why you board the land/ leylinefixer

[Warden]

gotcha, its all good now mox 

[wethepeople]

I believe that this is the best sideboard for Mana-Less Ichorid, because of it's extreme versatility, making it able to get rid of almost everything that is boarded in game two.

4 Abolish
3 Chain of Vapor
4 Tundra
4 Hallowed Fountain

I have been testing this list for a little while now, and initially wanted to keep it my own secret. Although, the other day in IRC someone else implied using the card, so I soon came to the conclusion that it's not as techy as I thought, and there is no real reason to further conceal.

Abolish, and Chain of Vapor can get rid of Tormod's Crypt, Leyline, Yixlid Jailor, Planar Void, and Pithing Needle. Whereas previous sideboards relied on two different cards to dispose of two different kinds of threats (e.g. Emerald Charm + Ancient Grudge). Unlike the other common choices, Abolish saves you a land drop, and solve this deck's problem post-board.

I have tested many other combinations of both land, and removal, but overall, this has proved to be the strongest.

[BreathWeapon]

I remember there being a red card that can discard a Mountain as an alternate casting cost and remove an artifact, it's similar to Crash, but I couldn't find it in the database. That seems to be about as good as Abolish against Pithing Needle and the stuff that Stax uses.

[Illissius]

I remember there being a red card that can discard a Mountain as an alternate casting cost and remove an artifact, it's similar to Crash, but I couldn't find it in the database. That seems to be about as good as Abolish against Pithing Needle and the stuff that Stax uses.

There's Flameshot, Crash, Pulverize, and Mogg Salvage, but nothing to my knowledge that destroys artifacts with the cost of discarding Mountains. Even if it did exist, I don't see why you'd want it over Abolish.

EDIT -- Sundering Vitae would be so cute in the Dryad Arbor sideboard, if only the things you want to use it against didn't prevent you from getting the creatures to cast it.

[wethepeople]

I remember there being a red card that can discard a Mountain as an alternate casting cost and remove an artifact, it's similar to Crash, but I couldn't find it in the database. That seems to be about as good as Abolish against Pithing Needle and the stuff that Stax uses.

That may be so, but keep in mind that Abolish is also able to get rid of Enchantments, in addition to Artifacts.