Uba stax, still viable?

[ebbitten]

Is uba still viable? I've won several magic-league tournies with it but i'm not sure if thats good enough.

I've been running one variant of stax or another for a while and that uba mask provides has been superb. The sideboard needs some work, but i really have no idea what i'm going to see at the next tournament. This deck handles a lot of the random jank that i see with ease and absolutely wrecks poor mana bases. This deck has a fairly good game versus GAT which is on the rise and doesn't really fold to most decks, even those with hate.

I've tested serum powders and they are just nuts, I'm currently using Meatberts deck in a magic-league tournament, results will follow.

the current list:
    4  Bazaar of Baghdad
    4  Mishra's Workshop
    4  Wasteland
    1  Strip Mine
    4  Barbarian Ring
    1  Tolarian Academy
    1  Mishra's Factory (3)
    1  Mishra's Factory (1)
    3  Mountain
    4  Goblin Welder
    1  Karn, Silver Golem
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Serum Powder
    4  Smokestack
    4  Uba Mask
    4  Crucible of Worlds
    4  Sphere of Resistance
    4  Chalice of the Void
    1  Trinisphere
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void
SB: 4  Pithing Needle
SB: 4  Powder Keg
SB: 3  Jester's Cap

[MagiKarp]

I would try to find a way to work sphere of resistance into the main deck. It is a great way to buy time against flash and anything that tries to combo out with storm, and if GAT does make a comeback it is one of the best tools stax has to combat it.

[Meddling Mike]

Well, there's a few things I'm sure are wrong with this list. For starters Great furnace can't be right with 3 null rod in the deck, crucible recursion or not, not like this deck should ever be lacking for artifacts on the table or you need to have a hard lock with mindslaver to facilitate or a TFK you need to pitch artifacts to. You should probably also definitely have a fourth wasteland, that would be a better thing to recur with crucible. I personally don't care for rishadan port, maybe ghost quarter?

[Jo84]

Rishadan Ports aren´t any good, they don´t synergize with Workshops and are a bad version of Tangle Wire. Also they produce just one colorless mana, either they should produce the color you need, give you at least two colorless mana or set up an hard lock (Wasteland, Strip Mine).
Also great furnace ist plain bad, for mindslaver tricks I would prefer Darksteel Citadel, but you have so many artifacts with CC < 2, it shouldn´t be any problem to abuse welder.

But I would try a mono-black version of Stax with Dark Confidants and the black tutors. If stax hasn´t an explosive start or faces too much disruption it´s just too slow to come back in time. With the tutors and the confidants you get more bombs in less time, letting you successfully setup a hard lock more often.

Also Solemn doesn´t make sense with just two basic lands and as said before you may try SoR instead of Tangle Wire.
So cut two Rings, fit in two basics, and a fourth wasteland for the furnace at least. I would also prefer a Sundering Titan instead of a Solemn, cause eating one to six (if the titan leaves play) of your opponents lands is much better than just getting one land by yourself and only if you have a basic land left in your lib.

[wethepeople]

The problem that I see with Uba Mask right now is that your opponents will not need the removed card for more than a turn. For example, versus combo you never want to cast Mask because while your opponent continues to draw, or RFG cards, they use them as if they were still at hand, and win within one turn. This situation has grown to be more common with the rise of so many Tendrils, and other combo decks, and the decrease of control in our format. So rather than spending my to cast Uba, I would much rather be playing a lock-piece that is more-effective versus these substantially fast decks.

[Hydra]

Personally, if I were to play Bazaar-Stax in the current meta (the restriction of Gifts makes me wonder if Uba itself is even worth using at the moment) I would be taking a cue from Vroman's most recent lists and run probably the strongest tool available to decks that like to essentially "goldfish":

Serum Powder.

Stax is a deck that wants to drop as many lock pieces as quickly as possible, and to that end UbaStax in particular is incredibly redundant, which makes Serum Powder all the more appealing.  With so many four-ofs in the deck removing a few lock pieces to insure a quick start is almost always going to be acceptable, as there's always plenty more where that came from.

This is probably the "starter" list I'd work off if I were to seriously test UbaStax in the meta:

4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Barbarian Ring
2 Mountain
2 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
5 Good Moxen
1 Sol Ring
4 Serum Powder
4 Goblin Welder
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Duplicant
1 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Tangle Wire
4 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
3 Null Rod
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Smokestack/Leyline of the Void (depending on whether or not you have Ichorid in your meta)

Obviously the numbers are fairly rough, but you want to have a good mix of lock components and threats, preferably recurrable threats.  Right now Smokestack seems like almost a sideboard card to me, as it's fairly ineffective against combo and Ichorid, although I'm not sure what you would want to replace it with.

As far as the threats go, I opted for ones that were excellent against the creature-based decks in the meta, as the lock components are your main weapons against combo.  Duplicant is excellent against pretty much every non-Ichorid creature deck in the format, either by offing their dudes or by just having a fat 2/4 frame that blocks all day long.  Solemn is also excellent against Fish, and solid against other aggro decks, the lack of basics to fetch be damned.  Don't forget he also draws cards.  Factories are perhaps the most important win conditions, as once Crucible comes down they never ever go away, providing you with nigh infinite fuel for Welder tricks as well as a win condition that will trade all day long with Fish creatures before getting in there.

As stated before, this is just a rough list, but I think it's a list that points in the right direction in terms of changes that you need to make to shift focus on the decks you're preying on in the meta.

[meadbert]

Every time I test with it I continue to find that Uba Stax is one of the best decks in the format.  The toughest part is creating a sideboard.

I am still somewhat against Leyline of the Void in the maindeck simply because your Welder no longer hands DSC.

Generally Stax is going to have an amazing Storm Combo matchup and a strong Fish matchup.  The problem matchups are Ichorid, Oath, Warrens in general and Flash.  Also I also found Gifts to be a terrible matchup depite many Uba Stax players claiming it was a decent or even favorable matchup.  I found that because Uba Mask was poor versus both Gifts Ungiven itself and Merchant Scroll that it was bad in generally.  Back in 2005 when Gifts was running four Thirsts Uba Mask was much better.


Here is my maindeck:
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Barbarian Ring
3 Mountain (Maybe should be Badlands)
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
4 Serum Powder

4 Smokestack
4 Uba Mask
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Goblin Welder

1 Trinisphere
1 Karn, Silver Golem

One controversial choice is using Sphere of Resistance over Null Rod.  I first tested Sphere because of synnergy with Serum Powder.  Your Serum Powder helps you cast locks around Sphere where Null Rod would have shut off your Serum Powder.  I then quickly discovered how good Sphere was for stopping Warrens.  It is a great proactive threat for stopping Warrens and Long hates it in general.  Also Resistor shuts off a ton if Ichorid's deck.  Although you will almost never win game one versus Ichorid Resistor is great to have in game 2.

For those that have not tested Serum Powder, it is incredibly powerful.  It virtually ensures that your opening hand is strong. Playing combo with 4 Chalice, 4 Resistor, Trinisphere and 4 Serum Powders feels unfair at times.
In the late game Serum Powder is typically better than a mox since you can play it in the face of Chalice@1.  If you do not want mana you can Bazaar it away.

Many have claimed that Uba Mask is a weaker card now.  I disagree.  I expect it to become much more powerful now that Gifts is restricted and Gush is unrestricted.  Uba Mask does hurt the Gush draw engine, while it could not touch Gifts.  The main problem I had with old Uba Stax was that Tangle Wire and Uba Mask did not do enough to slow down Gift's goldfish.  They could still happily top out during upkeep to play Gifts for cards that win.  Now that Gifts is not the problem it once was and there are more draw spells floating around Uba Mask should be stronger.
Also consider what Uba Mask does in the Ichorid and Flash matchup.  As an Ichorid player I can assure you that Uba Mask terrifies me.  Because I only run 12 dredgers it is VERY common for me to keep a hand with no dredgers.  This problably happens as much as 30% of the time or more.  If Uba Stax opens with turn 1 Uba Mask then I am dead in the water.  I will never get a dredger into my graveyard and I will just lose.
Against Flash Uba Mask is at least annoying if not a good card.  If you have Chalice@0 and Uba Mask out then your opponent will find it very difficult to put a Protean Hulk in his hand.

Factories make the Fish matchup strong.  Being able to replay a new 2/2 creature every turn is close to unfair.  Karn is very strong versus Fish since all lock components (and Serum Powders) become big creatures that are tough to deal with.

The real trick to Uba Stax now is the sideboard.  Serum Powder's power in game one may double in game two when you can use it to mulligan to hate.  The question is which hate.

4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pithing Needle
4 Powder Keg
3 Jester's Cap

Other than Caps that board would have made no sense to someone playing a year ago.  It makes perfect sense now.
Leyline is in there to address flash and Ichorid.  In general I think people play WAY to man Leylines.  I tore up Leylines all day at Roanoke because there was a mistaken impression that Leyline somehow automatically wins against Ichorid post board.  When I run 8 discard spells and 10 spells that remove Leyline this is just not the case.  It is nearly impossible for a counter spell based deck to protect Leyline.  It turns out that Uba Stax is in the perfect position to protect Leyline.  Sphere of Resistance, Chalice@1 and Trinisphere are far scarier than Force of Will in terms of protecting Leyline.  Also Serum Powder allows Uba Stax to just straight mulliganing to Leyline instead of throwing in the towell at four or five cards.  Incidently Leylines are the reason that I wonder if the Mountains should be Badlands.  I think not because the chances of drawing 2 of them or one and a Jet are pretty slim.

Pithing Needle is in there for the same reason that Leyline of the Void is.  Needle is great against both Flash and Ichorid.  Although Needling Bazaar hurts you it is still far worse for Ichorid.  Needle can name Kiki-Jiki to shut off Flash.  Needle is not helpful against other top tier decks but it is great against a host of random decks.  You can name Goblin Charbelcher, Illusionary Mask or Staff of Domination.  I have not tried boarding out my own Welders for Needles so I can Needle Welder but I suppose it is at least worth a try.  I do not see many Seal of Cleansing/Primordiums these days but Needle can be used for those. 
EDIT: Needle is also very strong against Bomberman since you can name Salvagers.

Powder Keg turns out to be really good in Uba Stax.  Post board it removes opposing Needles and Welders which can both be annoying.  It also handles all of your problematic matchups.  Keg answers Warrens.  Keg answer Oath in a round about way.  If you have Wasteland and Keg then you are safe since you can use Keg to remove the Orchard token and then Waste Orchard.  If your Keg is not immediatly answered with Oath then you can ramp Keg to 1 and barring an Oath+Walk next turn you can then ramp Keg to 2 in order to destroy any Oath that hits.
Keg tears up Fish.
Keg is great against Ichorid because of Bridge from Below tokens.  Narcomoeba swings for 1 and does not recur.  He is not that much of a problem.  Ichorid swings for 3 and recurrs but there are not THAT many black creatures in Ichorid anymore.  The real problem is all the 2/2 tokens created by Bridge from Below.  Keg gets rid of all of these at once.
Also, Keg answer Flash.  All of the copies of creatures that Kiki-Jiki creates can be removed with one activation of Powder Keg.
Finally there is the original intent of Keg which is to blow up all opposing moxes in one hit.  It happens all the time that my opponent has some "insane" turn 1 that involves 3 moxen and a ton of Warrens tokens.  When I play turn 1 Shop, Keg, activate I just get a concession.

The final card is Jester's Cap.  Cap seemed like a good solution for Oath and Long style decks since they typically only run 3 or fewer good win conditions.  Even if Oath has 4 creatures your Smokestack has a much better chance if it only has to deal with 1 creature over 3 turns rather than two creatures in two turns.  Cap is also pretty strong against Flash but I am not sure there is room to bring in all 15 cards from the board for that matchup.

I left out Duplicant.  That might have been a bad idea, but because Duplicant answers neither Warrens tokens nor Simic Skyswallower he did not seem good enough.

I left out Trike.  That is more likely to be a mistake as Trike is a great clock and answers Welders and Bobs so well.

I left out Tormod's Crypt.  I am using 4 Leylines instead and that seems to work alright.

I left out Null Rod.  It shuts off many of my cards and against Storm based combo and Ichorid I would rather have Resistor.

I left out Tanglewire.  I know it is good, but I wanted cards that help turn 1 (like Powder, Resistor)  Also, Tanglwire is not so good against Flash and Ichorid. 

I left out Ensnaring Bridge - This card was amazing till Ancient Grudge was printed.  Now Ichorid and Oath just answer it with Ancient Grudge.  I know some Ichorid decks do not run Ancient Grudge but there are other cards (Eternal Witness) that can be used to grab hate out of the yard.  I thought of combining this with Leyline in some manner, but against Ichorid if I can keep Leyline on the table then I just win.  Against Oath Leyline is just so weak.  I decided on Caps instead.

[ErkBek]

I talked with Vroman a while back about Serum Powder and he seemed to really like it. Props to Bert for getting Powder in 2 decks now.

Bert's build looks really strong. I've been saying for a while now that Stax is ready to make a comeback in the new metagame and this could be the deck. I agree with cutting Rod from the maindeck and running Spheres instead. GAT, Scroll.dec, and Long have a much harder time with Sphere than Rod. The one thing I'd be tempted to do is run a 2nd Karn over the 4th Uba Mask. Karn gives stax such a fast kill in the midgame, plus eating moxen can be very useful.

[meadbert]

Karn is good enough to warrant up to three slots.  The problem is if you actually find multiples and your opponent runs Welder then you can be in some real trouble.  If you have Karn and Smokey in play with Karn #2 in the yard then they can Weld in Karn #2 for your Smokey and you lose Smokey and both Karns since the Karns are legends and they get rid of each other.

Most deck do not run Welder so maybe Karn should be a two of.

Also, since Eric suggested pulling out Uba I should mention that opponents with Welder can do horrible things to you with your own Uba Masks so you have not oppened yourself up to Welder that much.

[Akuma]

Powder Keg doesn't deal with enchantments 

I have mixed feelings on Serum Powder. It has been great when I use its ability and get a better hand, but it is a hideous top deck when you are fighting for board control...

[meadbert]

Powder Keg doesn't deal with enchantments 

I had no idea, and that makes it much worse in general since it no longer deals with Oath as well.

[Phele]

When you use Badlands anyway you could play Explosives instead. It fulfills all your purposes (Oath, Tokens ..) in the same way. But if you don't have one of your three off color moxen it won't help you against Engery Flux.

[LKG]

The problem matchups are Ichorid, Oath, Warrens in general and Flash.

Wouldn't Ensnaring Bridge help against all these decks?  They are all creature based kills (assuming Flash isn't using the disciple kill).  It seems like this card is great hate agaisnt all the above decks and would arguably work better in Uba Stax better than 5c stax.

I don't think that grudge should make one completly discard the use of bridge, because as you said, combined with leyline grudge isn't a problem, and additionally youi have welder to bring it back.  I just think that bridge is worth more testing since is is so good against all the "problem matches" you listed.

[meadbert]

Regarding Engineered Explosives:  It is not nearly as good as Keg outside of Oath because Powder Keg costs 0 to use if Welded in and because Keg can be played and activated off a Shop.

Regarding Ensnaring Bridge:  It is good with Leyline out, but I board out Leyline against Oath (maybe I shouldn't) and against Ichorid if Leyline is out then I am already winning and do not need Ensarning Bridge.

Welder does protect Ensnaring Bridge, but versus Oath you cannot let them Oath because Ancient Grudge is such a pain.

[RaZe]

Regarding Ensnaring Bridge:  It is good with Leyline out, but I board out Leyline against Oath (maybe I shouldn't) and against Ichorid if Leyline is out then I am already winning and do not need Ensarning Bridge.

Welder does protect Ensnaring Bridge, but versus Oath you cannot let them Oath because Ancient Grudge is such a pain.

I'm surprised to see you write that Bridge isn't needed against Ichorid considering that you know better than 99% of Ichorid players that it takes more than just Leyline to win the Ichorid match up. Just looking at your latest Tournament Report where you answered Turn 0 Leyline almost all of the games, it suggest even more that Ichorid can win through Leyline when a competent player pilots a solid build. I understand you run SoR and Wastelands, but how do you prevent dying to Ichorid recursion considering your only other answer to it is your lone Karn.

I seriously suggest you re-consider Duplicant at least for the SB. It answers all aggro woes you might have. From the possible [inevitable comeback] of Quirion Dryad/Psychatog and the usual Bomberman and Fish running around.

Uba + E.Bridge = GG for Oath, Flash [san Disciple Kill], Ichorid, combat phase.dec with 4 SoRs, EoT Rebuild/Chain = GG is a lot harder to pull off.

[Tiki Walker]

Uba + E.Bridge = GG for Oath, Flash [san Disciple Kill], Ichorid, combat phase.dec with 4 SoRs, EoT Rebuild/Chain = GG is a lot harder to pull off.

Hello, there.

I would like to point out that while it is true that the combination of Uba Mask and Ensnaring Bridge is quite good for those decks going aggro route that you have listed above, but I tend to think that for one particular Oath build; the Tyrant Oath, an alternative route of solution is needed, as the Tyrant Oath is not prone to Ensnaring Bridge and is much more difficult to be completely locked up. The deck runs a fair amount of counters, and its winning mechanisms are quite robust, it can win via simple aggro way, locking up opponent by returning all of his/her lands and artifact manas, or using combos like Tendrils and Brain Freeze. And the Tyrant itself provides ways to remove bothersome permanents from the table, making lock strategies implementing permanents quite difficult to apply successfully.

Usually any cheap spell from the Oath Tyrant player is enough to start a cascade that makes all of our relevant lock pieces on board disappear one by one, and without those lock pieces on the playing field, they can just start to win on the same turn; for example just casting and bouncing mana crypt/mox building storm counts, and kill with tendrils or a brain freeze.

However, When I watched some matches between prison and this Oath Tyrant, a fair share of time Duplicants can decide the outcome of the game. Therefore, I would suggest that a number of Duplicants can be tried in the MD for the Uba prison deck.

As of Powder Kegs, I tend to agree that they are quite valuable to have now in some metagames. Its utility functions are quite broad and can be used to deal with a lot of problems that arise. At the very worst they can be used as mox sweepers, hopefully in this way they can help to emphasize the mana denial aspect of the Uba prison deck. To fight aggro decks, then kegs can help to complement the Ensnaring Bridge from the SB, and sweep any Warren tokens, as well as other tokens.

If most agreed that the addition of Kegs to the Uba Prison is a good improvement, then I would really like to know, do Kegs warrant their slots in the main deck, if yes how many should be in the main deck; and if it is not main deck material, then how many should be there in the sideboard.

Thank you.

[RaZe]

Tyrant Oath is a totally different deck altogether in my opinion. But facing that particular deck, then Uba+Bridge is but a secondary 'strategy' against it. More importanlyly is to set Chalice @ 0-2. Granted dropping Chalice on all three numbers is every game is statistically improbable, but since Berts list runs SoRs + 3Sphere, then going infinite with Tyrant Oath is considerably harder. Maybe bounce a couple of permanents, but that is hardly game over considering the 5 turn clock of Tyrant [it's a 5/6 without haste if I remember correctly]. And yes, if Duplicant is a pretty good anti-Tyrant solution. I'm curious though as everytime I play against Tyrant-Oath, they either never get to Oath or they combo me on the spot, so I never really knew how many Tyrants are run in the build.

As for Powder Keg, I simply fail to see how it is better than E.Explosives. Everyone know thats that meta game is speeding up faster and faster, so why use keg? I find it so utterly slow in Legacy, much less Vintage. Against EtW tokens, I still believe Slice and Dice is a better hoser. Which incidently also kills Moeba + Hastened Ichorids + Orchard Tokens with the benefit of another draw. I find Keg to be superior only if you are trying to kill moxens on the table as Keg can be cast off Shop while Explosives can't be activated with it. Where as wanting to wipe the board of anything bigger, Explosives seems to be the better choice. Granted I'm taking a break from UbaStax as of the moment and learning combo and haven't tested on it lately so I could be overlooking something.

[ManaDrainChile]

in the main deck is definitively important Sphere of Resistance and Chalice of the Void, they allow to respond in the early turns. the dream play is Mishra's Workshop, mox , chalice for 0, chalice for 1 , sphere of resistance..... and you can abuse the rest of the game whit the other cards in your deck. (you lose the welder but in this case you can play Smokestack to complet destroy of your oponent and soon play welder)

[Tiki Walker]

Tyrant Oath is a totally different deck altogether in my opinion. But facing that particular deck, then Uba+Bridge is but a secondary 'strategy' against it. More importanlyly is to set Chalice @ 0-2. Granted dropping Chalice on all three numbers is every game is statistically improbable, but since Berts list runs SoRs + 3Sphere, then going infinite with Tyrant Oath is considerably harder. Maybe bounce a couple of permanents, but that is hardly game over considering the 5 turn clock of Tyrant [it's a 5/6 without haste if I remember correctly]. And yes, if Duplicant is a pretty good anti-Tyrant solution. I'm curious though as everytime I play against Tyrant-Oath, they either never get to Oath or they combo me on the spot, so I never really knew how many Tyrants are run in the build.

Hello, there.

             I completely agree that the Tyrant Oath is a totally different deck than most Angel Oath. However, the basic problem we face is still the same though, that all of the misery will come out from any Oath activation, be it the Angel version or the Tyrant version. I am inclined to believe that unless we got lucky with fast mana and several chalices on hand, then the next reasonable hope is to try to flood the board with lots of resistors and combine it with mana denial. Failure to put lock components one after another while consecutively pressing the opponent's mana could result in that the overall lock is not strong enough and will be broken eventually.

If the opponent manages to put 1 Tyrant into play while still possessing cheap artifact manas in hand, if he/she gets enough mana to cast the cheap spells in his/her hand, then surely one by one they will bounce any relevant lock pieces on board and concluded that with mox-mana crypt juggling to build storm counts leading to lethal tendrils or brain freeze.

Double Tyrant build in particular in my opinion is especially adept at breaking up locks and put the lock itself on the opponent, as the opponent may find himself without any permanents at all on the table and locked up by the Tyrant player's chalices very quickly. Should the Tyrant player then choose to end the game by attacking in 3 turns and not to combo out right on the spot, I honestly think that the game is actually already over now because of this one sided Upheaval effect.

I am interested to find proper solution to this Tyrant build, but all I can offer right now is just suggesting to flood the board with resistors while pressing the mana at the same time. Of course this is under the assumption that the Oath of Druids does not hit play on the first turn with Orchard and Moxes. Other defensive measure I propose is to try to include several Duplicants in the maindeck and sideboard. Any of you friends would like to help to figure out what other measures are available for us to solve the problem? I would be very happy to contribute to the discussion.

Thank you.

[Tiki Walker]

in the main deck is definitively important Sphere of Resistance and Chalice of the Void, they allow to respond in the early turns. the dream play is Mishra's Workshop, mox , chalice for 0, chalice for 1 , sphere of resistance..... and you can abuse the rest of the game whit the other cards in your deck. (you lose the welder but in this case you can play Smokestack to complet destroy of your oponent and soon play welder)

Hello, there ManaDrainChile.

It seems that you also opine the best hope for Uba prison against any Oath decks is to actually prevent the Oath itself from coming into play. In the instance that the Oath hits play on the 1st turn, I guess we both agree that there's nothing much we can do. One thing I also propose that the lock from our permanents should be supplemented with mana denial in the form of Strip effects, so as to prevent the opponent from breaking out the lock. Oh, and I also think that Smokestack is needed to kill any permanents that manage to slip by or can't be touched by strip effects, to further ensure that there is no easy way of breaking out from the lock.

Oh, by the way, what a nice collection of Magic cards photos you have there on your blog. Your collection of Magic cards is really nice.

Thank you.

[meadbert]

I have done some more testing since it was pointed out that Keg cannot remove Oath of Druids.  I have also tested the Manaless Ichorid matchup more.
I do not like Needle as Ichorid hate.  When our deck has 4 Leyline, 4 Needle and 4 Serum Powder then we really want access to our own Bazaar so we can continue to draw disruption.
Also Strip Mine and Wasteland frequently remove their only Bazaar early on.

Testing against Oath I found that Keg was worse but still reasonably effective.
A card that helps both matchups is Ghost Quarter.  Ghost Quarter can remove an Orchard so as long as we have Keg to eat the token we are still okay.
Obviously Ghost Quarter removes a Bazaar against Ichorid.

The problem with dropping Needle is it makes the Flash matchup somewhat worse.  Still, the other 11 cards in the board are great against Flash so the loss of Needle is not that bad.  Basically we end up using Keg instead of Needle.

The other matchup where Needle is missed is Bomberman where Needle can remove Salvagers as a threat.  Since Resistor already shuts off that combo it may not be THAT missed there.

Going back to Oath.  Just mulliganing to Chalice@2 or an early Cap activation is not that bad.  One thought would be to add a fourth Cap to the board.  This then leaves room for 3 Ghost Quarters.
The idea would be that we pretty much always have access to one of our 8 Wastelands.  This means that Powder Keg can stop tokens, Cap can RFG creatures and Chalice@2 removes Oath itself as a threat.  In my experience, Factory beats are not much of a problem for Uba Stax, but there is always Tinker->DSC as a threat.  This is made somewhat worse by the fact that we are less likely to play Chalice@0.

There are many other possibilities.
I did not try Duplicant again because that rarely works for me.  SSS has protection from Duplicant and most Oath decks board in SSS.
I did try Ensnaring Bridge, and while it is solid against Ichorid it is not spectacular.  Against Oath it is basically dead since Oath will almost always bring in Ancient Grudge.  Keeping Oath off G is very difficult.
Other ideas I have tried in the past are Words of War, Goblin Bombardment and Slice and Dice.  Slice and Dice is too limited as it does not even remove Bridge from Below tokens.  Words of War is great versus Welders, against Bomberman and against Fish in general.
The problem is R2 is somewhat hard to come up with and against Oath it is clunky.  I would rather have Powder Keg anyway.  Words of War is very solid versus Ichorid where it gives you a clock.
The reason Words of War is so good against Welders is that you generally want to board out your Uba Masks when you play versus Welder lest your opponent use your own Uba Mask to Uba Lock you.
This makes Bazaar somewhat worse.  Boarding out Bazaar significantly decreases the brokenness of your deck.  By boarding in two Words of War you have one more non artifact permanent which breaks Bazaar.  Basically Words of War is a great replacement for Uba Mask.  You never want to draw a second Words of War so I would recommend only running two or three.  Generally I run two if I run any at all.

Goblin Bombardment seems too specific at first glance, but it actually becomes interesting if you run a full set of Factories.  In this case your factories actually become Barbarian Rings so you could potentially board in Goblin Bombardment versus Slaver/Stax to remove Welder and versus DarkConfidant.dec.  You can also remove 2cc creatures by saccing Factory, replacying him and then saccing again.
I only run 2 Factories and cannot find room for more, but if someone wanted to drop two Wastelands to run a full set of Factories then Goblin Bombardment would be more interesting and potentially worth running.
I did try Engineered Explosives and I found it very difficult to get two colors of mana available to remove Oath.  I found it more useful for removing 1cc threats like opposing Welders but I could not even rely on that.  Basically I would rather have Powder Keg.

I am still quite happy with:
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Powder Keg
3 Jester's Cap

I am close to adding another Jester's Cap.

For the last three cards my top choices are:
Pithing Needle
Ghost Quarter
Words of War

Also a Karn in the board might make sense to bring in against non Welder decks.

[Jo84]

In my opinion dropping playing things like Chalice@2, Trinisphere, Smokestack, Jester's Cap one round earlier may be the difference between winning and loosing.

Therefore I´m really curious to know why you do not play mana crypt, mana vault and so many lands instead? Also you play 34 - or 30 if you don´t want to count on the powders - mana sources, but they don´t really make you faster.

[meadbert]

Serum Powders allow you to mulligan into Workshop most of the time.  I think you will find that you can mulligan into a 3 mana hand more regularly with this deck than with traditional Uba Stax.

Obviously Crypt and Vault would improve those chances even more.  Mana Crypt is a double edged sword that has killed me too frequently in the past.
It is still an obscenely broken card that may well belong.  I am less inclined to want to play Vault because it is only a one time use.  It may be that the formatted has accelerated enough that Uba Stax needs these acceelerants, but being able to reliably mulligan into shop and then lack of wastelands in the current meta means that mana is not a problem.

Serum Powders help getting turn 2 activations out of Jester's Cap.  Turn one you play Shop + Mox to resolve Cap.  Turn 2 you play Serum Powder off Shop and then use Serum Powder and the mox to activate Cap.

Also there are only 26-30 mana sources in this list depending on what you consider Serum Powder to be.
When you further consider that Factories, Wastelands and Strip Mine all have alternate uses Uba Stax is somewhat mana light with only 19 pure mana sources.
Basically I took the traditional Uba Stax manabase, removed the Crypt and Vault and added in two Factories.

[madmanmike25]

Uba Mask is not a bad card, I just have been underwhelmed by it lately.  I still think a competent player can pilot Uba-stax to victory.  If you see more and more Gush decks, then its potency will increase.

For what it is worth, here is the latest build of Stax I have been playing.  Note the lack of Uba Mask.  I have always felt the goal of Stax is to laser-beam focus on lockdown and win at your leisure with Welder beatdown/B-Rings if your opponent does not scoop first.  Mono-red is in my opinion the most consistent form of Stax by far.  You lose the random bombs, but don't have them stuck in your hand either.

Artifacts: 23
4 Smokestack
4 Chalice
4 Crucible
4 Tanglewire
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere

Creatures: 7
4 Goblin Welder
3 Guerilla Shaman (toying with -1 Shaman and +1 Rod/Bridge)

Acceleration: 8
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

Lands: 22
4 Mishras Workshop
4 Bazaar's
4 Wasteland
4 B-Ring
4 Mountain
1 Stripmine
1 Tolarian

SB: To your meta.  If you are facing tons of aggro(really?) take out Null Rods and put in Trikes

I have always preferred the 4th mountain over the Mana Vault, welder tricks be damned.  The rest of the cards should be self-explanatory in a Stax deck.

I personally think it is time for maindeck Ensnaring Bridge.  For 3 mana, it is a solid card as it is both proactive and reactive.  You can hold it until you need to cast it and lay disruptive cards first or cast it as you wish.  There is no doubt that Dupe is the better single creature removal card.  There is also no doubt it costs 6 mana and cannot stop a swarm of creatures.

Note the mana curve.  The highest cc card is for 4 mana.  This, along with Bazaar, makes it simple for you to empty your hand and get the most use out of Ensnaring Bridge.

E.Bridge also makes game 1 against Ichorid tolerable.

Yes it can be bounced but seeing as it is pretty much a one-sided effect for 3 mana, I think it is worth 3 MD slots.

Thoughts/Comments/Criticisms?

[Jo84]

That´s a point, as it´s also possible to mulligan into bazaar with Ichorid, but if you go that aggressively on this one land you may lose to a wasteland or just have a hand with shop and nothing good except it. Ichorid can kill you even with bazaar as only card in your hand. Therefore I use Serum Powder more too have a hand full of lock components and threads and therefore more effective turn one mana should be included. I gonna try a black staxx version, where I do the following changes:
-3 Mountain
-4 Barbarian Ring
-4 Goblin Welder
-1 Mishra's Factory
+3 Swamp
+2 Urborg
+4 Dark Confidant
+1 Mana Crypt
+1 Lotus Petal
+1 Mana Vault

I hadn´t any problem to get my crypt, vault out of play with welders and stax, so I am not sure if the bobs are a good replacement, but they help you to put more pressure on the opponent.
Also I decied to cut red, cause in nearly every test match I didn´t reach threshold (as I draw mana, mana, and more mana my graveyard didn´t consist more than five cards), so the Rings hadn´t any use for me.

[meadbert]

Maindeck Ensnaring Bridge is an interesting idea.  Post board Ancient Grudge makes it easy for Ichorid and Oath to remove it, but in game 1 you are far less likely to see an Ensnaring Bridge.

It also answer DSC reasonably well.

I image Fish and even GAT would not like to see an early Ensnaring Bridge either.

I will definitely have to test that.

[McBain]

i think that md ensaring bridge is a bad call, sure it can stop a bunch of stuff, but it does nothing to lock anyone. the are still going to go nuts and then win. I would way rather drop a few lock pieces and take a few hits from a dryad then roll out mishras factory, dup, or jenns to take the hits and give me an advantage.
Bridge is absolutely dead vs combo/control decks, the only huge advantage is ichorid, but id rather just bring in leylines, powder into one, then drop a 2sphere then just uba lock them or something.
I think uba is an amazing card, once you start actually really forcing the uba it can get pretty sick.
Serum powders are pretty amazing, however ive cut it down to only 3...and cut karn for dup and jenns MD instead.
these two are amazing.
One matchup that ive been playing a lot recently on MWS (woot) has been 5c stax (shop decks, that arent uba) and ive found that uba has a pretty good match up overall, the one thing you really have to watch game one is your uba's and there welders..or else its game. I have 3 trikes in the board so i bring in
+4 leyline
+3 trike
-4 uba
-1 bazaar
-1 2sphere
-1 black lotus
This has worked out pretty good, its all bout the welder, cow, and not puting artifacts in your yard.

the 3 trikes have been pretty amazing, they are good vs welders and any form of aggro. they can kill themselves in resp to ichroid bridges and still get in some damage.

[meadbert]

Three Serum Powders might be correct number.  Basically you always want one in your oppening hand, but you never want two in your oppening hand.  By dropping from 3/4 Serum Powders your probability of starting out with two Powders drops by half.

I can say that in my opening hand simulator I found that 4 Serum Powders were better, but this only considered opening hands.

Also, I have tested some more this weekend and basically I think there should be more Karns.  Eric was right again.  Although Karn allows Welder to wreck you, Welder is already a huge problem.  Also there are only two decks in my current gauntlet that run Welder and Uba Stax is one of them so facing Welder in game one should be rare.

[McBain]

i was playing 2 karn before i switched to sole/dup.
karn is huge, he can block all day long, eat moxen, and is usually a 1-2 turn clock.
however i find him really bad when i need to get out of a jam, dup/sole can pretty much do so much more. the game
can take a bit longer, but usually i just go for an uba mask lock.
most of the time karn just wins games that you have all right winning in the first place

[ErkBek]

most of the time karn just wins games that you have all right winning in the first place

I've got to disagree here.

I've never claimed to be a stax expert, but the problem with Uba Stax is actually putting away games. Karn puts games away fast and does it in a way that it disrupts your opponent and is hard to deal with other than by countering him. Honestly, I laugh at when my opponent plays dup or solemn when I'm playing anything that has a combo finish when they could be playing Karn. Dupilicant is a sideboard card for Uba Stax, in my opinion. What are your chances of finding Dup when you need it when you only play 1? If you already had dup and could cast him, it's fair to assume that Karn could have already hit play and started the damage.