Gush TPS (Revised)

[Negator13]

Okay. So. This post was much different when I first posted it, but looking at it again I think I spent too much time explaining things people already know (like why Gush is good, etc) rather than getting to what I actually wanted to accomplish, which is to get constructive feedback on my deck here. I'm not trying to sell anything or claim that my deck is better or worse than any existing one here on TMD, I just want to put it out there, explain why I think it has merit, and hear what all of you have to say about it.

So with that out of the way, once again, it's nice to see you all again and I hope you haven't all forgotten me .

As I said before I took a long break from actually playing Magic, not having physically played a game since about October of 2005, but during the time since I have kept up somewhat on the format's changes and now that I'm thinking of starting back up again I think I have a pretty good idea of what's up. Looking ahead to Waterbury next month, it seems I will want a deck that is as little reliant on the graveyard as possible, that can handle other graveyard-reliant decks well, that can keep up with the greatly increased speed of the present day format, and that can stand toe-to-toe with the new monster, GAT. The deck I propose to do this with is (surprise surprise) TPS, updated to abuse possibly the most powerful unrestricted card in the format, Gush.

Here is my list, first of all:

Gush TPS (Current Build as of 6/29)

3 Island
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
7 SoLoMoxen
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Gush
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Merchant Scroll
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Timetwister
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mind's Desire
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Fastbond
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
1 Tendrils of Agony

Sideboard:

2 Forbidden Orchard
4 Oath of Druids
2 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Platinum Angel           
1 Tinker
1 Rebuild
2 Massacre
2 Extirpate



Rather than preach about why cards like Gush and Merchant Scroll are good, I think I'll just quickly go over the important aspects of the list that set it apart from things like standard TPS, GT, or "The Mean Deck"

-26 mana sources (including Rituals): When I drew up the first draft of this deck, I started out with 28 mana sources like Classic TPS. I eventually cut it down to 27 and finally 26. The reason I was able to do this is of course Gush. Not only does Gush allow you to hit a missed 3rd land drop, but it also replaces expensive cards like Time Spiral or Fact or Fiction in the old TPS builds with free spells. This easily allows you to go down to 26 sources. The sources I cut were of course Tolarian Academy and Mana Vault. Mana Vault was the first to go, as it was only marginally good in classic TPS and without Tinker maindeck was an easy omission. Academy soon followed it. Academy was only marginally better than a basic Island in the old TPS, and cutting Mana Vault just makes it weaker. This deck wants its lands all to be Islands so as to maximize Gush, and you end up making more mana off them with Gush/Fastbond then you ever would with Academy anyway.

-3 Merchant Scroll, 4 Gush: This is obvioiusly the big discrepancy between classic TPS and this one. As you all know, Merchant Scroll has been an ever-increasingly popular card in everything from Control to Combo, and Smennen's "Mean Deck" is basically classic TPS with Scrolls. However, I was never happy with it because I simply felt there werent enough good targets for it beyond the obvious Ancestral Recall. The thing about the old TPS was that it always had 5-10 really iffy slots that I constantly fooled around with, looking for the best cards to fill those last few slots. I tried everything from Thirst for Knowledge to Gifts/FoF to Cunning Wish to Merchant Scrolls, but I was never really happy with any of them. Usually those slots ended up being the quirky, clunky, situational bombs that TPS is generally known for: Time Spiral, Frantic Search, Skeletal Scrying, etc. Those were always played because there was simply nothing better to replace them with. However, now that Gush is unrestricted, I think we finally have the intrinsically powerful, flexible card I've always been looking for to fill those slots and replace the suboptimal cards that are only rarely effective. Gush fits pretty damn well into TPS's existing strategy. It allows you to draw cards for free, hit missed land drops, up your storm count for free, etc, and even pitches to Force. Further, and maybe even more importantly, it allows you to run the cards that were on the brink of being "good enough" before but are now just amazing in tandem with Gush. These cards are of course Merchant Scroll and Fastbond. Like I said, without Gush in your deck, Merchant Scroll is just too limited to devote deck space to. But with 4 Gushes to search for, your remaining Scrolls stay relevant even after you cast Ancestral. Likewise, Fastbond has natural synergy with many of the cards that were already in the deck, like Twister, Bargain, Will, and Desire. It wasn't quite good enough to justify splashing a whole other color for before, but now that you can run 4 Gush, it instantly becomes amazing. I really believe the 4 Gush/3 Scroll/1 Fastbond package to be the best fit for the previously shaky last 8 cards for TPS.

As for why only 3 Scroll, it's because even with 4 Gushes to search for after Recall, the 2nd and 3rd aren't quite good enough to justify running #4 over other cards like Imperial Seal, which can fetch Fastbond. It's simply a matter of deck space.

-The Bombs: The bombs in this deck, in combination with the Rituals, are what set this deck apart from Kyle's Gush Tendrils. The problem I see with his deck is that there simply aren't enough powerful cards to draw into with your Gushes and Wraiths. Without cards like Necro, Bargain, and Twister, you just Gush into lands and disruption and more Gushes. In his deck, you're really only looking for Will, or one of your restricted tutors to find Will while you're chaining Gushes. Or you're hoping to just be able to chain so many Gushes/Scrolls/Brainstorms that you can simply cast a rawdogged Tendrils and kill them. In my experience, this fizzles way too often. Drawing only 2 cards at a time, blind, often isn't enough when you simply don't have a high enough density of bombs in your deck. Too often, when it comes down to it, you find yourself sitting with only a Gush and maybe a Wraith in your hand, hoping your Will is in the top 3 cards, or at least another Gush so you can hope it's in the next two cards. I don't like this feeling of uncertainty and risk. You may say that this can be avoided by not trying to "push the combo when it isn't there", or playing more cautiously and slowly, but really I don't think that is good enough. Running the bombs means that a much higher percent of the time, the combo WILL be there, and you end up a full turn or so faster. I definitely think that is worth it.

By running both the Gush/Scroll engine and those bombs, you gain the ability to either win small when you have to or win big when you can, and as an added bonus both plans mesh together extremely well. This flexibility and adaptability is what has always made TPS great in my opinion, now even more so.

-4 FoW, 4 Duress: Originally I ran Misdirections over Duress, but upon further testing and analyzing I think the Duresses are definitely superior. Misdirection is only good for protecting your own cards from counterspells, whereas Duress is good for basically everything, defensive or offensive. Having Duress over Misdirection means "double counterbackup" requires a FoW, a Duress, and only one blue card, whereas in order to be doubly protected with Misdirection and FoW you'll need two blue cards to pitch. Duress is easier on your hand, good on both offense and defense, and allows you to know exactly where you're at when you play it rather than just guessing with Misdirection and hoping it'll be good enough. Furthermore, in the matchups where Misdirection and Duress are both bad, such as Stax, Duress is at least useful, while Misdirection is completely dead.

The sideboard: I'm really happy with this sideboard configuration. Obviously you want 4 Leylines for Ichorid and Flash. Beyond that, the options were wide open. However I was immediately drawn to the idea of an Oath transformational sideboard, especially because you're already running green. Against anything with alot of combo hate and a lot of creatures, such as Fish, TMWA, and to a lesser extent GAT and Stax, you can board in Oaths and just completely take them by surprise and wreck them. I found it difficult to decide which creatures to use, choosing between Blazing Archon, Tidespout Tyrant, Akroma, DSC, Plats, SSS, and others. I settled on Colossus for now because it allows you to also run Tinker as a 5th way to get him out. You can also just board in Tinker and DSC against decks that it would be effective against but you don't want Oath against, like creatureless Stax. The other sideboard cards are just staples; additional mass artifact bounce to destroy Stax and Massacres for Meddling Mages and Mindcensors.

Cards I didn't Include: At first when I started putting ideas for this deck together I wanted a whole bunch of cards in there, such as Street Wraith, Tinker/Jar, Misdirection, more mana, etc. All were eventually cut for one reason or another and I think I have finally gotten it to the point where I don't want to cut anything else and I don't really want to run anything else either. Personally I think Street Wraith is hugely overrated right now. It just doesn't do anything. It's the next card in your deck, except you don't know what it is and you lose 2 life. It's really only good for the interaction with the CD tutors, but that is nowhere near enough to justify cutting better cards for it. Tinker/Jar was an easy cut because it was always a shaky bomb in the old TPS, requiring you to commit a lot of resources either to cast Tinker and protect it or to get the 5 mana for Jar. Then you would usually have to pass the turn, and even then often your 7 cards weren't good enough and you would have to discard your hand and pass the turn. Plus, it forces you to run 2 Tendrils because the lone copy can get stuck in your RFG hand. I already explained how Duress is vastly superior to Misdirection, and why Mana Vault and Academy are unnecessary. That's basically it for cards I considered but didn't include, and I must say I'm very happy with how tight the deck turned out to be with respect to not wanting to either cut or add anything anymore.



Overall, I think this deck is extremely powerful and a great choice for the metagame right now. You can look at it as GT with Rituals and Bombs, "Mean Deck" with Cushes, or TPS with Scrolls and Gushes instead of terribly situational cards like Frantic Seafch and Windfall. I think it is definitely better than Gush Tendrils, because as I explained before it is faster and has a much lower chance of fizzling once it starts going off due to the presence of huge bombs. I really think it loses pretty much nothing when compared to GT, as you trade basically MisD's for Rituals and a bunch of situational 1 of's for ridiculous restricted cards that win the game. As to whether this deck is better or worse than GAT, I think it trades some of the ability to beat Polluted Delta decks for the ability to have a great game against Workshop decks. After board, the deck can crush Graveyard decks and Workshop decks with ease, plus it has the ability to bust out a surprise Oath board against random hate decks and destroy them with a completely different strategy than they are prepared for.




I'd really like to hear what people have to say about this deck. Please post any constructive critisms, negative or positive, and I'll be happy to answer any questions. Thanks alot, Justin


EDIT: I'm really torn between running Colossus and Platinum Angel as Oath targets or Tidespout Tyrants. Which do you guys think would work better, against Stax, GAT, Fish, TMWA, and Bomberman? Running the artifact dudes allows you to use Tinker as Oath #5, and decks like GAT have very few answers to Plats. On the other hand, Tyrants allow you to combo out with Moxes and Krosan Rec, and bounce opposing hate cards and Dryads. However you need to have castable spells in hand for it to work. Any opinions?

[Negator13]

Just so you guys know, I updated my post with a much more final decklist, complete with a solid sideboard. I also took out all the unnecessary crap about why Gush is a good card, which you already know, and explained my card choices and omissions in much greater detail. I'd really like to hear what you guys think about this deck, and any suggestions you may have for improving it. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions as well.

[rologa]

When I saw your list yesterday late at night I was very interested because since the Gift restriction and Gush unrestriction I'm working in a similar deck. My deck was only a few cards different, mostly the disruption pack. I decided to go to bed and make some comments today. But when I was to comment I see some changes that made our decks so similar that only differ in two cards. I completely agree with you that Duress are better than Misdirection. Duress not only protect your spells but can stop a little the faster combo decks like Long or Flash deck. I also started with a mana base of 14 lands but after testing I reduced one land because the deck have so few expensive spells and usually this spells require a dark ritual. The only differences from your deck are the following:

-1 Island, + 1 Swamp
-1 Dark Ritual, + 1 Merchant Scroll
-1 Hurky's Recall, +1 Regrowth

I think the Swamp is necessary in some match-ups to not be forced to fetch an Underground in the first turns and lost it against some decks like Stax or Fish. I know that sometimes you can't Gush because you have it instead of an island but it don't happen usually and I prefer the safety of have a reliable source of black mana to cast the tutor or the dark ritual in the appropriate moment.
About the other choices, I really want to put 4 Merchant Scroll because in this deck they have very good cards to search for. It is very versatile and can get protection or draw when needed and It is very good when you try to comb with Fastbond and Gush because it search more Gushes without expending mana. The introduction of Regrowth instead of a protective spell as Hurky's Recall could be more questionable but I think that Hurky's is only useful against Stax because against the rest the Chain of Vapor is enough. Regrowth is more versatile and in a deck with a lot of bombs like this you always will find something useful in your graveyard. It is useful also to maintain the chaining of Gushes when you are trying to comb with Fastbond in play.

My sideboard is different from yours, I think that Oath isn't a good choice because it takes a lot of slots and with only one Darksteel Colossus as creature Tinker is more than enough to put it into play. I think the deck needs something useful against combo and control and at this moment I'm trying Extirpate. It needs 2 or 3 turns to be effective but considering that usually games two and three are a little slower it don't seems a problem. It can be useful to remove disruption like counters or REBs than can slow down our deck considerably. I prefer dedicate the other slots to the most problematic math-up, Stax. My proposed sideboard is now like this:
- 4 Leyline of the Void
- 2 Extirpate
- 1 Tinker
- 1 Colossus
- 2 Hurky's Recall
- 2 Elvish Spirit Guide
- 2 Thrashing Wumpus (or Massacre)
- 1 Echoing Truth

Overall I coincide with you that this deck is very powerful and definitively better than Gush Tendrils. It is very fast, don't die due to graveyard hate and it has different approaches to victory that made it a very versatile deck.

[netherspirit]

I personally would replace Time Walk with either Exploration, Summer Bloom or Regrowth as all it seems to do is give you an additional draw and land drop to fuel Gush.

[Negator13]

-1 Island, + 1 Swamp
-1 Dark Ritual, + 1 Merchant Scroll
-1 Hurky's Recall, +1 Regrowth

First of all, thanks for the reply. As for the differences between our lists, I think those small changes are just personal preferences. Personally I don't think a basic Swamp is necessary, as you don't cast Duress that often against Stax anyway and you don't cast Ritual until you're going off. Gush also allows you save Undergrounds from Wasteland. I think the 4th Ritual is much better than the 4th Scroll, for various reasons, but it's up to you. I have to say Hurkyl's MD is a necessity though, it's what allows you to beat Stax with ease game one by Scrolling it up, and it allows you to storm up huge Mind's Desires and Tendrils. I just don't think Regrowth is quite flexible or powerful enough to run over any card in the deck right now, although it is close to being a 61st card.

 My proposed sideboard is now like this:
- 4 Leyline of the Void
- 2 Extirpate
- 1 Tinker
- 1 Colossus
- 2 Hurky's Recall
- 2 Elvish Spirit Guide
- 2 Thrashing Wumpus (or Massacre)
- 1 Echoing Truth

I have to admit I'm pretty enamored with the idea of an Oath board right now and I really want to give it a shot at a tournament. If you're not going to run it I can definitely see running things like Extirpates in its place. Remember though that if you run a Hurky'ls MD you really only need a 2nd and a Rebuild in the board to solidify your Stax matchup, I don't think Spirit Guides are necessary at all. Long ran them because it barely had any permanent mana sources and needed to go off as soon as possible before Stax got its lock down; however you have lots of basic lands and 3 mass bounce spells after board which allow you to just wait until an opportune times to go off arises.

Speaking of an Oath plan, does anyone have better suggestions than just Colossus for creatures to run? Like I said I put him in because he allows you to run Tinker, however I worry that Fish will STP him and I won't have any creatures left.

I personally would replace Time Walk with either Exploration, Summer Bloom or Regrowth as all it seems to do is give you an additional draw and land drop to fuel Gush.

That's all Timewalk does in combination with Gush, maybe. However Time Walk also has great synergy with Bargain, Necro, Twister, pitches to Force, untaps all your lands and draws a card, and is never dead. The cards you suggested are all situational and not blue.

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

As for SB creatures with OATH, I think you first have to ask yourself two things:

-against which matchups do you want to have Oath?
- which are the main problems you face in that matchup?

For your worries about fish game 2: If you were a fish player and were facing combo: would you leave StPs in? I only would if I was afraid of creatures game 2.

Personally, I think Oath creatures could be:
-Tidespout tyrant (bounces everything, can even get you infinite mana with one mox in hand and one on board)
- sundering titan (destroys lands, thus being mostly immune to StP if they have no mana anymore... tinkerable, another possibility would be petradon, (with that you can take out any 2 lands, not such an impessive body, though)

- blazing archon (eg. against ichorid or fish, no creatures will attack you anymore) OR platinum angel, tinkerable

Personally, I think you shouldn't run bad creatures such as Simic Sky Swallower just because of fear in StP... just make sure it doesn't resolve. with two creatures, eg. blazing/sundering or tidespout/platinum you don't have to be that afraid of a StP.

Another side note, perhaps a bit off topic:
for Ichorid, I think of a sideboard TECH card: compost. What about it? Draw 50 cards...

peter flugzeug

[Negator13]

I think you're definitely right about SSS. Here's what I've settled on for the Oath transformational board:

4 Oath of Druids
1 Platinum Angel
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Tinker
1 Krosan Reclamation
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Massacre
4 Leyline of the Void

I really like this configuration for a lot of reasons. Against Stax, GAT, Fish, and TMWA, you can transform into a pretty standard Gush Tyrant Oath build after sideboard. Against Stax and TMWA you side out Duresses and and a couple other cards for Oaths, Tyrant, Reclamation, and mass artifact bounce. Against GAT and Fish you side out Dark Rituals, Necro and Bargain rather than Duresses, and board in Tinker/Plats as well. Against Ichorid, Flash, and Grim Long, you board in Leylines, Tinker, and Plats.

As for Compost, it's a neat idea but I think Leyline is just superior for obvious reasons, and the two don't work together so I'll just stick with Leyline.

[The Atog Lord]

Your deck is neat, and is a possible direction for Gush-based decks. However, it seems like you have two Sol Rings in your build. One is listed as itself, and the other in your SoLoMox count.

[Negator13]

Indeed. I fixed it, and updated it to the current build (-Walk and Seal +Gifts and Scroll #4). I realized I wanted to be able to fetch a bomb with Scroll so I added Gifts, in exchange for Walk which was by far the weakest card. I then wanted the 4th Scroll with so many good targets so I cut Seal, which just isn't that good especially without Street Wraiths or Tops or something.

Echoing Truth replaces Hurkyl's in the board because now that you have 4 Scrolls you really only need 1 Hurks and 1 Rebuild against Stax.

[The Atog Lord]

The deck's now 59 cards. I'd advise that Timewalk not be excluded. It has been, in my testing of all sorts of Storm-based combo decks, very powerful. It helps get you to another mana early in the game, and it has incredible synergy with both Necropotence and your sideboard Oath plan.

[rologa]

The 60th card I suppose is Lotus Petal.
I agree with Rich about not to cut Time Walk, it's never dead, has a lot of synergy with Necro, Bargain, Twister, Tutors, etc. and the tempo gained in the early game can be the difference between a win or a lost.
I tested Gifts in this deck and I think it don't belongs to it. It's slow, it cost to much to be played in the early game and without Regrowth or Recoup you can't exploit all his power. In a deck like that I prefer Imperial Seal over it all the time. It fetches fastbond or whatever you need, you can Gush into the tutored card easily and  it cost only 1 mana. A think I like about this deck is his ability to go off having only 2 lands in play as mana sources and Imperial Seal helps to make this possible more frequently.

[Negator13]

Yeah, that's what it is, I wrote Sol Ring by mistake instead of Lotus Petal. I'll fix it.

I always championed Time Walk in classic TPS, for the same reasons you listed. But in this deck I really think there's no room for it, and I really don't miss it very much. Fastbond does much the same thing with regard to Necro, Bargain, and Twister, and the deck doesn't run Tinker/Jar anymore which was a huge reason I used to run Time Walk. Basically I think Fastbond replaces Time Walk here, doing everything it does better except being blue (but that's a non issue because the deck has a whopping 23 blue cards anyway). It's not a bad card by any means, but I just don't think it does enough to justify running it over other things anymore. However as I continue to test the list I'll get a better idea of what's necessary and what isn't, and maybe I'll be able to cut an underperformer to put walk back in.

I'll admit that Gifts Ungiven is largely untested right now. I ran 1 to 2 however in the old TPS and loved it, even without running Regrowth or Recoup. It is easily played off Moxen or a Ritual and there is always a pile that will put you in a winning position. Things like Vamp/Mystical/DT/Lotus or Scroll/BS/DT/Gush are game winning piles. You really don't need a graveyard recursion spell beyond Will to abuse it. I decided to include it because I would sometimes find myself with Scroll in hand but having already played Ancestral and with no Fastbond in play. Or I had a Fastbond in play but Scroll was my only business card and I didn't want to just cross my fingers and hope the next 2 cards I drew off a tutored Gush would be enough to win the game. In these situations you really want a bomb that you can tutor up with Scroll. Gifts is that bomb.

Of course, only testing will tell and I'm sure I'll be making constant tweaks right up until Waterbury. No card is sacred and I try to give consideration to any idea before I just disregard it.

[Negator13]

Okay, upon further testing, you're right: Gifts Ungiven probably does not belong in this deck. I neglected to think about that this deck runs at least 2 mana sources less than the old TPS making Gifts fairly hard to cast. You can go "all in" with Rituals and so forth to cast things like Necro or Bargain because they will win the game on the spot, whereas Gifts in a deck not built around it takes a lot more resources and usually time to win off. So it looks like it's not an optimal choice.

This leaves me with somewhat of a dilemma though; if I cut Gifts, presumably for Time Walk (which I have realized is necessary for the Oath plan like Rich said), then I'm not sure that I want 4 Scrolls. However I'm really not a fan of Imperial Seal for various reasons. Even GAT doesn't run it, and they have 3-4 Street Wraith and much the same targets as I do. What do you guys think, should I run 4 Scrolls, or Seal, or some other card? Fact or Fiction maybe?

Edit: I'd also like to lessen the deck's vulnerability to Mindcensor. With 5 Fetches, VT, MT, DT, and 3 Scroll, it is already quite hurtful; adding in the last Scroll/Seal only makes it worse. How does say, 1 Misdirection look in its place, to keep up with the high amounts of disruption in GAT and Bomberman?

[rologa]

Personally I like both, Scroll and Seal, in fact I play with both in my build (sacrificing a Ritual). Imperial Seal finds bombs expending very few mana and Merchant Scroll finds draw or protection. To rebating your argument about even GAT doesn't run Seal I have to say that GAT doesn't run Necro, Bargain, Twister or Desire to find with it and doesn't take profit from Lotus as this deck takes. Also with 4 Gush and 4 Brainstorm you can put in hand the card fetched frequently. If I have to choose between then I suppose I will take Seal, I haven't find any deck that take more profit from it than this deck.
What I never will choose is Fact or Fiction, have the same problems than Gift and his effect is more random.
I have tested Misdirection also and sometimes is good but sometimes is awful. In general is good for protect your own spells but can't stop opponent's bombs. I prefer the 4th Scroll always, can do the same protection role and is more versatile when what you need is fuel.
About Mindcensor, I agree that can be a problem, but isn't specially fast and you can be in a very good position before opponent can play it or take advantage when he became tapped out to cast it. Also you can find an answer before he can play it.

[Negator13]

Personally I like both, Scroll and Seal, in fact I play with both in my build (sacrificing a Ritual). Imperial Seal finds bombs expending very few mana and Merchant Scroll finds draw or protection. To rebating your argument about even GAT doesn't run Seal I have to say that GAT doesn't run Necro, Bargain, Twister or Desire to find with it and doesn't take profit from Lotus as this deck takes. Also with 4 Gush and 4 Brainstorm you can put in hand the card fetched frequently. If I have to choose between then I suppose I will take Seal, I haven't find any deck that take more profit from it than this deck.
What I never will choose is Fact or Fiction, have the same problems than Gift and his effect is more random.
I have tested Misdirection also and sometimes is good but sometimes is awful. In general is good for protect your own spells but can't stop opponent's bombs. I prefer the 4th Scroll always, can do the same protection role and is more versatile when what you need is fuel.
About Mindcensor, I agree that can be a problem, but isn't specially fast and you can be in a very good position before opponent can play it or take advantage when he became tapped out to cast it. Also you can find an answer before he can play it.

I hear you and must say your arguments for Seal are quite solid and I definitely couldn't fault anyone for choosing to run it. However I personally just don't like it as a matter of preference and for now I've settled on Time Walk and Regrowth over Scroll #4 and Seal. My view on Regrowth is that after the first Merchant Scroll its basically another one except it can get Recall a second time. I'm finding it to be very solid so far and it has a lot of utility that a fourth Scroll wouldn't. Basically Regrowth is less flexible than the first Scroll but much more flexible and powerful than the 2nd-4th.

[Purple Hat]

if you're looking for another bomb for scroll fact or fiction is amazing in this type of deck.  we've found it to be better than gifts in our testing.

[rologa]

My view on Regrowth is that after the first Merchant Scroll its basically another one except it can get Recall a second time. I'm finding it to be very solid so far and it has a lot of utility that a fourth Scroll wouldn't. Basically Regrowth is less flexible than the first Scroll but much more flexible and powerful than the 2nd-4th.

Regrowth was in my list until I drop it to make room for Hurkyl's Recall. It is my 61th card and it will be my first option to include if I find room. I agree with you on your vision of Regrowth and my testing confirm that but I prefer it as a 5th Scroll, not replacing the 4th. The reason is simple, what my testing revealed is that initial hands with some disruption, mana and regrowth as the only business spell are very bad being forced to mulligan. If instead of Regrowth you have a Scroll the situation change, you can find Ancestral and protect it having a good start. Scroll is also better to find answers, Regrowth need you have the answer in the graveyard or some tutor to find it, slowing your play. Scroll is fast for the first turns and less flexible for middle game but I think that when playing combo is more important to take advantage from the beginning so I prefer the 4th Scroll. Obviously another reason is that Regrowth isn't blue so you cannot pitch it to Force the first turns when it remains in your hand without use.

Changing the subject, I have a question about your Oath sideboard plan. I see it as a good plan against Fish or TMWA to avoid hate but I'm not convinced that is so good against GAT or Bomberman because you are slowing down your deck and allowing then to take the control role. It could be a good trick if your opponent don't see it coming but against good players I'm not sure about his effectiveness. Against Stax I don't understand how you will activate Oath, usually they only run a few creatures and can lock you down before putting in play one of them.

[Negator13]

Regrowth was in my list until I drop it to make room for Hurkyl's Recall. It is my 61th card and it will be my first option to include if I find room. I agree with you on your vision of Regrowth and my testing confirm that but I prefer it as a 5th Scroll, not replacing the 4th. The reason is simple, what my testing revealed is that initial hands with some disruption, mana and regrowth as the only business spell are very bad being forced to mulligan. If instead of Regrowth you have a Scroll the situation change, you can find Ancestral and protect it having a good start. Scroll is also better to find answers, Regrowth need you have the answer in the graveyard or some tutor to find it, slowing your play. Scroll is fast for the first turns and less flexible for middle game but I think that when playing combo is more important to take advantage from the beginning so I prefer the 4th Scroll. Obviously another reason is that Regrowth isn't blue so you cannot pitch it to Force the first turns when it remains in your hand without use.

That's a good point and you may well be right that Regrowth doesn't deserve a slot over Scroll #4. The only thing that will tell is further testing.

Changing the subject, I have a question about your Oath sideboard plan. I see it as a good plan against Fish or TMWA to avoid hate but I'm not convinced that is so good against GAT or Bomberman because you are slowing down your deck and allowing then to take the control role. It could be a good trick if your opponent don't see it coming but against good players I'm not sure about his effectiveness. Against Stax I don't understand how you will activate Oath, usually they only run a few creatures and can lock you down before putting in play one of them.

Well first of all, it's not intended for Bomberman, mostly because they run Aether Spellbomb. Against GAT it seems like a great counter-strategy, you both running 1G threats and mostly the same cards (you take out Rituals, Necro, and Bargain) except your 1G threat wins the game on the spot while theirs takes several turns. Also, your 1G threat, if landed first, makes it so they can't drop theirs without dealing with yours first, and they usually only run like 1 Cunning Wish and 1 Echoing Truth for removal. So basically, if you drop Oath after they have played a Dryad, they have one turn to win since Plats or Tyrant win the game on the spot. If you drop it before  they play one, they can't drop one without losing the game, so you have all the time in the world to Tinker up Plats and win that way (you don't care if they Oath up a Dryad if you have Plats out).

As for Stax, the thing here is Oath is no way your plan A. What happens is you board out 4 Duress and a couple other marginal cards for the Oaths, Tyrant, Reclamation and Rebuild. You now have a deck that contains the full combo, and an Oath - Tyrant backup. Oath simply replaces Duress, which is a terrible card in the matchup. At its very worst, Oath reads "target player cannot play Goblin Welders" and at its best it wins the game on its own, if they already played one. If you drop an Oath turn 1 or 2, there's very little Stax can do about it, especially now that many builds are not running Smokestack anymore. If they can't remove it, they simply can't win, period. You have all the time in the world to find a Hurkyls or Rebuild and win that way.

On another note, it is pretty clear from testing that Bomberman is probably my worst matchup. And, like I mentioned before, my Oath plan doesn't really work against them due to Spellbomb. Any suggestions for making that matchup better, or should I just accept it and focus on others?

[rologa]

On another note, it is pretty clear from testing that Bomberman is probably my worst matchup. And, like I mentioned before, my Oath plan doesn't really work against them due to Spellbomb. Any suggestions for making that matchup better, or should I just accept it and focus on others?

Well I admit I don't have tested the Bomberman matchup enough. My plan is to sideboard in 2 or 3 extirpates and try to take advantage in the first turns before opponent can establish control due to Mana Drain and other control elements. I have played bomberman some months ago and I remember the deck suffers a lot against fast combo until it arrives to 3th or 4th turn.
If Mindcensor could be a problem I suppose a pair of Thrashing Wumpus or Massacres can help a little also. Until further testing of the match I can't said more.

[Negator13]

On another note, it is pretty clear from testing that Bomberman is probably my worst matchup. And, like I mentioned before, my Oath plan doesn't really work against them due to Spellbomb. Any suggestions for making that matchup better, or should I just accept it and focus on others?

Well I admit I don't have tested the Bomberman matchup enough. My plan is to sideboard in 2 or 3 extirpates and try to take advantage in the first turns before opponent can establish control due to Mana Drain and other control elements. I have played bomberman some months ago and I remember the deck suffers a lot against fast combo until it arrives to 3th or 4th turn.
If Mindcensor could be a problem I suppose a pair of Thrashing Wumpus or Massacres can help a little also. Until further testing of the match I can't said more.

Yeah that's basically what I've been thinking. I'm pretty sure the Leylines aren't necessary in the sideboard. so that frees up 4 slots. You can already race Ichorid, and then after board you have Tinker/Plats plus any Extirpates or Tormods Crypts you might want to run. For those last 4 slots right now I'm thinking some combination of Thrashing Wumpus/Extirpate/Massacre/Tormod's Crypt. Two other ideas I also have are Engineered Plague, which kills Mindcensor now and later, plus it shrinks Trinket Mage and Meddling... its also useful against Fish and Oath (for Spirit tokens). The other idea is running 2 Forbidden Orchard in the board for Stax. These give you additional lands which is nice because your main goal against them is to get up to about 3 or so mana, plus they activate Oath if they haven't played a Welder or Shaman yet.

I played in a small tournament tonight, and the only games I lost were two games that I both punted vs Ray with Stax due to rustiness. Had I played correctly I wouldn't have lost. However Orchards would have been a huge help against him because both post SB games I was hurting for lands and had Oaths that weren't activating. Orchard would have solved both problems singlehandedly and won me either game as soon as I drew it.

[g0tenks00]

After reading this thread and looking at your list, I'm confused as to what your current list + sideboard actually is, as you've revised your first post, and discussed card choices in other parts of the thread that are inconsistent with the list you've posted. Have you totally ditched leylines in the sideboard now, in favor of 2 extirpate and 2 massacre, to shore up the bomberman matchup? How effective are 2 extirpates at wrecking graveyard strategies? Personally I couldn't play this confidently in a tourney without 4 leylines in the side.

I like the Oath transformational board plan. It looks to be amazing in the fish matchup. Would it be possible to post a reply with an updated decklist, and perhaps some comments on matchups you've tested, as well as sideboarding plans? If possible, that would be awesome.

[tehmajickguy]

After reading this thread and looking at your list, I'm confused as to what your current list + sideboard actually is, as you've revised your first post, and discussed card choices in other parts of the thread that are inconsistent with the list you've posted. Have you totally ditched leylines in the sideboard now, in favor of 2 extirpate and 2 massacre, to shore up the bomberman matchup? How effective are 2 extirpates at wrecking graveyard strategies? Personally I couldn't play this confidently in a tourney without 4 leylines in the side.

I like the Oath transformational board plan. It looks to be amazing in the fish matchup. Would it be possible to post a reply with an updated decklist, and perhaps some comments on matchups you've tested, as well as sideboarding plans? If possible, that would be awesome.

Justin just top 8'd ELD's Mox tourney with this list:

Justin Bransfield - Gush Tendrils

3 Snow Covered Island
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Brainstorm
4 Gush
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyll's Recall
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Fastbond
1 Timetwister
1 Mind's Desire
1 Necropotance
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Sideboard
2 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Platinum Angel
4 Oath of Druids
2 Extirpate
2 Massacre
1 Rebuild
2 Forbidden Orchard
1 Tinker

[g0tenks00]

What would you be siding out versus ichorid, flash, and grim long? It seems to me like it's best to side in extirpates, and tinker/plats, but I don't really know what to take out.

[Negator13]

I've decided not to post any more updates on the deck for now, at least until Waterbury. Not to be a dick; just because I don't really feel like I have anything to gain from it at this point. However if anyone wants the current list, or has a question about anything, feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to answer.