Exploring Storm Based Combo in Vintage: The Contractor

[goobafish]

This thread is created for my full membership qualification. It is supposed to be used as a starting point for players who are new to combo in vintage, but also as a reference point for longtime players.

At the end of an article it presents a list which I believe is a good contender for one of the best storm based lists in the format. The article was originally created after I won the side event of GP Toronto with it. I recently top 8ed a 60 man event with it and have done significant testing with it. The article first examines combo decks from that period and then discusses types of combo decks, hate and finally my list and my perspective.

Combo has always been an extremely viable archetype in vintage. Yawgmoth’s Will is now considered the best combo enabler, and since the advent of Tendrils of Agony, the card has become extremely important to combo decks.

Fairly recently storm combo has evolved from the traditional TPS deck to take on many other variants. Combo normally consists of combo enablers like: Dark Ritual, Yawgmoth’s Will, Yawgmoth’s Bargain, Necropotence ect. and then most decks consist of relevant disruption that help you combo off without interruption by an opponent such as Duress, Force of Will, Mana Drain, bounce spells. The most important types are: Combo-Control and All Or Nothing, also referred to as !@#$% to the Walls Combo.

1. Combo-Control
Combo control has changed a lot recently. When combo’s good friend Bob (Dark Confidant) came out, decks have begun abusing it, especially in Europe. New archetypes are being developed that are much slower and more immune to hate spells, through Dark Confidant’s card advantage and multiple counterspells. Innovation was at an all-time high in this area of combo-control. The original TPS is becoming less and less played and another deck is replacing it. Earlier this year Eric Becker created the most revolutionary form of combo-control in a while, Intuition Tendrils. Here is a list from day 2 at SCG Richmond.
Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus 
1 Lotus Petal 
1 Mana Crypt 
1 Mana Vault 
1 Mox Emerald 
1 Mox Jet 
1 Mox Pearl 
1 Mox Ruby 
1 Mox Sapphire 
1 Sol Ring 

Enchantments
1 Necropotence 
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain 

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall 
4 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain Of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
3 Force Of Will
3 Intuition
1 Mystical Tutor 
1 Rebuild
2 Remand
1 Vampiric Tutor 

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor 
4 Duress
2 Grim Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Timetwister 
1 Yawgmoth's Will 

Basic Lands
2 Island
1 Swamp

Lands
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy 

Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
1 Coffin Purge
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Hymn To Tourach
1 Massacre
2 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Swamp

The revolutionary card in this deck is of course the namesake, Intuition. When I first looked at the list I was quite skeptical because I couldn’t see intuition being that useful. I had free entry to a vintage tournament for winning the previous one, so I attempted to pilot it. In goldfishing, Intuition was an amazing enabler to get the necessary Rituals/Black Lotus into my hand and the graveyard for a game ending Yawgmoth’s Will, it also allowed me to get 3 Tutors to find that game-ender. When I got to the tournament I found there to be a major difference than in playtesting. My intuitions where getting countered. This was amazing to me for the first few rounds, because I was banking on them for the win. In the final rounds, I top 4ed, I realized that It wasn’t the intuitions putting stuff in the graveyard that helped, it was the fact that all my opponents would counter the intuitions leaving me open to go off undisrupted, I used it as a bait. I will refer to this in the future in my “new path to take” section.


2. All or Nothing Combo
This kind of combo involves a much faster approach, and attempts to win the game as soon as possible. It also tries to beat the opponent before they have time to disrupt your combo or set up their game plan. Decks in this category include Grim Long and Meandeck Tendrils type decks (Horden Tendrils, French Tendrils ect.)

Here is Stephen Menendian’s Grim Long list from SCG Day 2.
Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus 
1 Lion's Eye Diamond 
1 Lotus Petal 
1 Mana Crypt 
1 Mana Vault 
1 Memory Jar 
1 Mox Emerald 
1 Mox Jet 
1 Mox Pearl 
1 Mox Ruby 
1 Mox Sapphire 
1 Sol Ring 

Creatures
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Xantid Swarm

Enchantments
1 Necropotence 
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain 

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall 
4 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mystical Tutor 
1 Vampiric Tutor 

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor 
4 Duress
3 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mind's Desire 
1 Regrowth 
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Time Walk 
1 Timetwister 
1 Tinker 
1 Wheel Of Fortune 
1 Windfall 
1 Yawgmoth's Will 

Lands
4 City Of Brass
1 Forbidden Orchard
3 Gemstone Mine
2 Underground Sea

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy 

Sideboard:
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain Of Vapor
3 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Shattering Spree

As you can see the list runs cards to combat hate like Duress, Xantid Swarm, and Hurkyl’s Recall. And in addition to this hate the deck is extremely fast. But, the manabase is extremely susceptible to hate, and the deck is also susceptible to hate if the opponent can survive past the first few turns. This leads me to the more relevant and innovative part of my article.

More recent lists:

Paul Mastriano’s Deck from SCG Roakane

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Enchantments
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain Of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Empty The Warrens
3 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind's Desire
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Swamp

Lands
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:
1 Platinum Angel
2 Dark Confidant
4 Leyline Of The Void
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Empty The Warrens
2 Massacre

Recently the manabases have adapted to a 2 or 3 color base, making it better off against hate, but at the same time the list runs many tutors and Force of Will. The impact of Misdirection or an Opposing force is great to this deck as it uses a turn to scroll for the Recall, and another turn to play it. If it is successfully misdirected it is deadly, if it is forced it can be used as bait, but because of all the tutors and counters it has less bombs to successfully combo off after the bait.

Now a more similar list to mine presented below: GWS Long
The Business 23
4x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Necropotence
1x Mind’s Desire
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Memory Jar
1x Tinker
1x Timetwister
1x Wheel of Fortune
3x Grim Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
2x Tendrils of Agony

The Protection 7
4x Duress
2x Rebuild
1x Hurkyl’s Recall

The Acceleration 19
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual
2 Simian Spirit Guide

Land 11
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy

This list runs a much more resilient structure in terms of protection and manabase. The deck runs a wide array of bombs but is missing out on 8 rituals which I find are quite important to modern combo decks, especially those that run Grim Tutor who need black mana after casting a tutor.  This is probably the list that fits my play style the best besides my own because of its array of bombs. The deck does however lack lands and therefore stability for the long game.


3. Choosing Your List
Some players and deck builders believe that there is a “best combo deck” or a strictly better list. I do not believe so. I think that players should always play what they feel most comfortable with. When I play a deck that I am comfortable with, no matter how different it is from the normal, I do better than netdecking a list, like I have in the past. Players play the best when they are comfortable with the deck. If you like having Forces, play forces, if you need to have Duress in your build to combat hate, then do so. I cannot emphasize this enough, to be a good Tendrils player, you MUST play a list that is your good friend.
There are of course shells that Tendrils decks fit into that can help you build. Tendrils in Vintage doesn’t need to be Dark Ritual based, but it tends to help. Mana Drains are starting to take their place in some lists as an accelerant because after countering an opponent’s bomb or a hate cards, you can use the Mana Drain mana to go off without worrying about that piece of hate. Ritual lists are more prevalent, and use game ending bombs and tutors to find your win. In this type of shell there is so much maneuvering room as to the cards that can go in, such as the new Dark Confidants or Gift’s Ungiven, which is being played in the new TPS lists. I will go over the card choices later on in the innovation section.

4. The Hate Section
Hate is the number one reason that people gravitate away from combo. In a hate heavy metagame, players tend not to play around the hate, but instead change the type of deck they decide to play. In this section I will go over the most played hate cards and how they affect combo, metagame and deck construction.

Null Rod: This card shuts down the moxen and other artifact accelerants, and Memory Jar, if you play it. and causes a lot of damage when you attempt a rebuild kill. If you anticipate this card, make sure to play Cabal Rituals in addition to Dark Rituals. This card is fairly easy to work around, but they temporarily stall you, especially if you have an unstable land base that can be easily wasted.

Chalice of The Void: This card is similar to null rod, except is more broad. If it is set at 0 it counters your moxen, which is sometimes better than null rod because it can add to storm, and you can will them back. When set at 1 it disables many cards such as Dark Ritual, Brainstorm, Duress, Chain of Vapor ect.. It is for this reason that diversity among casting costs is helpful in a Tendrils based deck.

Counterspells (Force of Will/Mana Drain): These are omnipresent. The format will always have them, and there are many ways to attempt to play against them. Duresses, your own counters, Xantid Swarms, and my current favorite, Defense Grid. It is important for a player to keep these counters in mind while attempting to go off. In the Innovation section of the article I will talk more about playing around or against counters.

Orim’s Chant/Abeyance: I have never personally had this card played against me in Vintage, but I have in Legacy. This can be a show stopper in the middle of your combo, make sure to be ready for it in your board. Pay attention to how much mana they keep open.
Arcane Laboratory/Rule of Law: Slows you down, but doesn’t kill you, there should be bounce somewhere in your build, if not, and you have no Colossus it is an auto loss. It is for these kind of cards that you have maindeck bounce, or try to go off before they drop it.

Duress/Cabal Therapy: These cards are painful. They get to see your hand, which is very key for a control player, as they know exactly what to counter, they can also take a key combo card, or even something like a brainstorm, if you only have a 1 land hand.

Root Maze: If the opponent can put a successful clock on you with this card in play then it is a real problem. If not, just try to ride it out with a stable manabase, it can really slow you down. In a deck like Ichorid, it can put a strong clock on you if this hits play on turn one or 2. Your fetchlands are also definitely weakened.

Jester’s Cap/Extract: This is the most serious problem. Other cards you can play around, if they first turn extract you, and you are without a counter, and without a tendrils in your hand, and you only play 1 tendrils, it is extremely painful. Jester’s cap almost always wins your opponents the game, luckily it costs 6 mana, and you can possibly counter it. Any deck with Jester’s Cap is a bad matchup for combo.

Leyline of the Void/Tormod’s Crypt: This obviously harms graveyard reliant decks. If your deck has many outs to win without Yawgmoth’s Will then you are find, this is easy to do using Rebuilds, Hurkyl’s Recall, Chain of Vapor, Bargain, Necro. Graveyard hate really hurts decks like IT where they rely on the graveyard for a Yawgmoth’s Will kill. Leyline is bounceable so it is easier to play around, but T-Crypt they can easily crack to remove your graveyard in response to a bounce spell.

Pyrostatic Pillar: This is also a hoser against storm based combos. Not to worry, you can still win, but it is difficult. If you can get perfect storm without taking 2 damage from fetches, forces or your opponent, then you can still win. Most cards in Tendrils decks cost 3 or less, so it is difficult to win.

Stifle: I have never really found this card to be a problem, but it could be somewhat problematic against decks that fall into the All Or Nothing category. Normally when you are this far into the combo you will have access to a Duress, A Force or even another Tendrils.


5. Innovation Time! – My Combo Philisophy

Here is where my opinion and ideas come into play. I believe that combo is slowing down unnecessarily due to more and more hate/counters being played. Decks are playing more and more the control role, where I believe the combo route is more effective. Here is an example, after discussing this with my team members, I took a Tendrils list to a tournament with my only counter hate being 2 Duress, No forces, no chain, no other discard. And I still managed to split for 1st playing against decks that packed much hate, I won against Null Rod and Root Maze in play at the same time, I won 2nd turn through this: (he was playing control slaver)
Turn 1: Duress, Force of Will one of my spells
Turn 2: Mana Drain
And I still went off that turn.
I won through Tormod’s crypt as well. I didn’t lose a single match, and I only had 2 cards of counter hate. This is why I believe this was the case:
Instead of running dead cards (when you are comboing off) like Mana Drain, Force of Will, Duress, Cabal Therapy, Echoing Truth. And utility cards like Gifts Ungiven (which is a bomb sometimes) decks should center around playing as many bombs as possible to bait counters (like I mentioned in the example of me playing IT). I am going to make a list of bombs that are not always played in Tendrils lists that most control players will counter, or must counter at the end of the section.
The mana base’s of current decks is also extremely important. In decks like grim long, they are running no basics and a 5 color mana base, while this is somewhat advantageous, it is my opinion that combo needs to play a stable mana base with multiple basics to combat the threat of “passing the turn”. What my ideal combo deck would be is a deck that drops a bomb that does not require too many resources and if it gets countered it is not too important, because the combo player can just pass the turn without worrying about Wastelands or their Gemstone Mines dying and turn around and play another bomb on the next turn. My ideal deck would play more bombs than the control player can counter, thus winning when they run out, also the lack of Forces and other dead cards make the “bombs” more effective as it is easier to win off them. Here are some of the bombs I am talking about, some are of course weaker than others:
Frantic Search
Time Spiral
Timetwister
Yawgmoth’s Bargain
Yawgmoth’s Will
Ancestral Recall
Necropotence
Memory Jar
Tinker
Grim Tutor
Windfall
Demonic Tutor
Lesser Tutors (to top of library)
Mind’s Desire
Bounce Spells (Rebuild, Hurkyl’s Recall, Chain of Vapor, Repeal)
Wheel of Fortune
Meditate
Infernal Contract
With such an abundance of combo bombs in the format, combo decks can play enough bombs to combat counterspells and hate. Decks need to be able to combat Chalice @ 1, Null Rod and many other hate cards. So without further a due, I present to you:

David Caplan - The Contractor

1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
1 Frantic Search
1 Gush
3 Infernal Contract
1 Mind's Desire
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Rebuild
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Timetwister
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Underground Sea

SB:
1 Darksteel Colossus
4 Defense Grid
2 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Massacre

I developed this list at Grand Prix Toronto to play in the side event. At first we were skeptical because of the obvious lack of Anti-Hate. At the time the list was playing 2 less duresses. The deck plays ridiculous bombs so that once one is countered or Duressed you still have more in hand.

It takes quite a bit of testing to feel comfortable with the deck. The key is not to mulligan too aggressively because card advantage is exactly what you need to combat hate. The reason that Draw 4’s are so strong in the place of other cards such as Tutors, is the fact that they provide a “must counter” and if they cannot or choose not to counter it, they must deal with the 4 cards that follow. Most vintage decks win conditions do not come online until late game, and as such the life loss is fairly inconsequential, and where it is hurting it can be easily sided out in favor of hate cards or cards that speed up the combo such as Chain of Vapor. The fact that the deck does not run forces allows for the sideboard option of Defense Grids which help immensely against counter spells and cards such as Stifle. The Draw 7’s are also must counter spells which allows for you to bait. This deck is all about baiting, even if you need to bait with very important cards to get the eventual win.

With the un-restriction of gush, there have been many fastbond reliant combo decks that have appeared. The problem with these is they are heavily hurt by the same metagame cards that hurt GAT, one of the most popular decks in the format. By playing a deck like this, you really aren't reliant on any specific cards, nor on your graveyard.

I believe this is a good replacement for Grim based decks which rely on will. In my most recent event with this deck I went through 7 rounds, and only 1 game was won by Yawgmoth’s will. Although many Grim Tutor based combo advocates believe that there is only a slight reliance on Yawgmoth’s will, I disagree. The rise in Leylines and Tormod’s crypts due to Ichorid’s perceived strength has severely hampered long player’s dreams, while this deck remains almost unfazed. The deck also becomes faster because you do not need to worry about drawing dead into counters such as Force of Will or Misdirection in that every card is a utility.

I leave you with this list for scrutiny and discussion. We feel it is quite strong and is a good contender as the next big storm based combo. Enjoy!

David Caplan
-goobafish


And I would like to thank Colby Evenpence, Clem Yuen and Andrew Oyen (REanimator)for their help in building the deck originally.

[arj]

Good to see an article about combo

I've been playing GWS long, which is quite similar in that it has only Duress + bombs and it's extremely effective and consistent. I've changed it to make room for street wraith and I've come to find that 3 is the magic number (TM). What is you opinion on him? I can see the problem with the loss of contracts but still you mention that life loss is not a problem.

[goobafish]

Life loss is generally not a big problem, but it can easily accumulate. I do not run street wraith because of it's affect on mulliganing and is anti-synergistic with brainstorm. Life loss will add up if you contract into streetwraiths, and especially if you end up playing a bargain or a necro, it is just too much.

[Imsomniac101]

Was this written pre-Gifts restriction? Cuz with GAT in the meta, I think this article loses a bit of its relevance.

[goobafish]

Originally yes, it was written before gifts restriction. I have played the deck since then, and the article is still relevant. I top 8ed at a 60 man event with this in a flash/gush metagame. The deck can still compete, although it is weakened by the gush meta.

[The Sovereign]

David Caplan - The Contractor

This list is 59 cards.  It seems the omitted card is a Yawgmoth's Bargain.

[Engine_number_9]

I can't see your list beating Flash. It's not as fast and only runs 4 duress that can slow flash down. Am I missing something?

[Zieby]

Hi,

It is good to see that not everybody is building GAT or Flash. But mi main question is: Is 31 mana sources really necessary?

I am trying to build a samilar deck, and when i have some testing results i will post my thoughts on what could be the right build.

I can't see your list beating Flash. It's not as fast and only runs 4 duress that can slow flash down. Am I missing something?

I think that 4 duress can be good. The same is for GWS long and a friend of mine top 4 in a 35 man tournement in a GAT/Flash meta. So i think it is still good. You only need to be very fast. Because after 3 turns the card advantence for GAT is to large.

Secondly. Flash dosn't have the nuts each game. And the ratio of the Nuts is for Both deck's almost equel.

PS: Sorry if my englisch is not that well, but it is not mi motherlanquage.

Just my 2 cents

Zieby

[goobafish]

This list is 59 cards.  It seems the omitted card is a Yawgmoth's Bargain.

Thanks!

I can't see your list beating Flash. It's not as fast and only runs 4 duress that can slow flash down. Am I missing something?

It can beat flash. Pre-board you can go off faster than they can using duress as a stopper, and post board you have leylines. It is definitely not a a favorable matchup, but it seems to be alright. They do not have enough disruption to hamper you from going off, as their Pact of Negations are dead. You use the duresses to slow them down, and then bait their counterspells. I have played this matchup twice at tourneys and 2-0ed it both times. This deck will normally go off turn 2.

It is good to see that not everybody is building GAT or Flash. But mi main question is: Is 31 mana sources really neccesary?

I do not count rituals as mana sources. Even if they are counted, they are required because of the high mana cost of the bombs, and the amount of black required to play them.

[arj]

Been testing this a little and what I really like about the deck is the high percentage turn 1 either necro or contract. Both perfect for setting up a turn 2 kill. With 4 bombs and 8 rituals the percentages of playing one of the two on turn 1 are rather high. Now I know this is not the only way the deck can win, but it could be the primary game plan. In that case have you thought and testing 4 contracts? I know they are not the best to chain into, but one could in some cases still make use of a second contract on turn 2 given the large quantity of rituals. Why not cut Frantic Search for the 4th Contract and make the deck even more focused?

[goobafish]

Been testing this a little and what I really like about the deck is the high percentage turn 1 either necro or contract. Both perfect for setting up a turn 2 kill. With 4 bombs and 8 rituals the percentages of playing one of the two on turn 1 are rather high. Now I know this is not the only way the deck can win, but it could be the primary game plan. In that case have you thought and testing 4 contracts? I know they are not the best to chain into, but one could in some cases still make use of a second contract on turn 2 given the large quantity of rituals. Why not cut Frantic Search for the 4th Contract and make the deck even more focused?

The problem with focusing the deck on Contracts is that you end up needing your rituals too much. 4 Contracts will give you hands where you do not have the rituals needed to play them, making them dead cards. Frantic search is really an open slot, I used to run gifts, as it is a real powerhouse. Gush is also a relatively open spot.

[Daenyth]

Could you post any sort of matchup analysis, or sideboarding plans? I'm interested in trying this deck but I want to make sure I play it to its fullest potential.

[Moxlotus]

I think this is a great post for beginners who want to know a little about different philosophies about storm combo.  Histories could have been longer, but it wasn't necessary.  I'm just a sucker for deck history   I might have switched out GWS Long with Pitch Long (both of which were heavily developed by Becker) simply because PL helped define a metagame.

Oh, and I found that 3 Street Wraith was the magic number of GWS Long too

Personally, I think there isn't much of a reason to play Tendrils because Flash does everything Tendrils decks want to only for less mana and can fit in 12 disruption spells.  Is there any real reason to play storm when you could play Flash?

[Daenyth]

Storm is more fun

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

And I believe there are still people who enjoy actual thinking while playing magic, rather then just autopilot.
this s perhaps not a deck to win a big tourney with (albeit you can) but a deck which requires skill sometimes.
I know people who don't want to play stupid decks.
but I agree with MoxLotus that flash is better at the moment. Because it's an unfair deck.

[zeus-online]

but I agree with MoxLotus that flash is better at the moment. Because it's an unfair deck.

Urh...and Long isn't? Man, what happened to this format.

:: Random rant about restrictions::

/Zeus

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

Well, yeah, Long is an unfair deck also, you're right, but that deck requires you at least to count mana and spells...
(Flash also requires counting: 1+1=2)

[ErkBek]

Thanks for the article David, I always like reading about myself. 

I think your list is about as good as you're going to get for storm combo at the moment. By cutting Grim Tutor you've elminated the plays that take 6 mana (Grim for Will or a draw7) for plays that cost 3 (contract), something that is much needed in a merchant scroll heavy metagame. But think that rituals just aren't the way to go right now.....

Well, yeah, Long is an unfair deck also, you're right, but that deck requires you at least to count mana and spells...
(Flash also requires counting: 1+1=2)

Flash has kind of had a sobering effect regarding Long in Vintage. Seriously, chaining 10 spells together into a tendrils is so much more work than just paying 1U and having 2 easily found cards in hand. I've said this a number of times, Flash is everything Pitch Long ever wanted to be. I think the reason flash is so good is much of the same reason GAT is so good, both decks cheat on the number of mana sources in the deck. Vintage has moved from a big mana format to a mana efficient format. For comparision:

Pitch Long and Grim Long: 30 mana sources
Flash: 18-19 mana sources

Gifts: 25 mana sources
GAT: 19 mana sources

The thing is these mana efficient decks seemingly have just as many, if not more broken plays than the big mana decks. Therefore there isn't really a good reason to play a big mana deck when you could get the same things out of a efficient mana deck, plus have 10% to 20% more spells that actually do stuff.

It seems like stax should be making a big comeback in this mana light format, but the problem is the mana efficient decks only are trying to resolve 1 and 2 mana spel to inch marginally ahead, while big mana decks went for 3, 4, and 6 mana spells that would just end the game. Lands are really good vs. stax and these decks play just as many, if not more, they've just cut the artifact mana that stax hosed very well. Again for comparision:

Long: 11 land
Flash 12-13 land

Gifts: 15 land
GAT: 15-16 land

I've gotten a little off topic here, but this is why big mana decks aren't working right now in vintage. This is probably a topic worthy of full article, so if anyone wants to write one I'd be interested to read it.

[Dr. Teeth]

Could you perhaps elaborate on why you do not have a lion's eye diamond maindeck?

[ErkBek]

Could you perhaps elaborate on why you do not have a lion's eye diamond maindeck?

David is at Gencon at the moment (he made t4 at legacy worlds!). I think I can answer this for him though.

LED is good when you are using it with a Tutor or a Draw7 since you are willing to trade the rest of your hand for 3 additional mana to play either the tutored card to the any of your 7 new cards. However, Gooba's list runs only 5 cards that LED is good with (Twister, Tinker, Jar, Will, and Demonic) and really any card is good with Demonic or Will.

David's list runs Infernal Contract, Gush, and Frantic Search which are all uncombo with LED (he plays these over Grims and other draw7's). Imagine playing a Infernal Contract with LED on the table. If you break LED, you better hit the absolute nuts. It's a very risky play.

The opportunity cost of running LED is running 1 less Cabal Ritual. Cabal Ritual is a better card in this deck because it let's you power out the cards that are currently in your hand, plus it can make absurd amounts of mana like LED can.

[goobafish]

Could you perhaps elaborate on why you do not have a lion's eye diamond maindeck?

David is at Gencon at the moment (he made t4 at legacy worlds!). I think I can answer this for him though.

LED is good when you are using it with a Tutor or a Draw7 since you are willing to trade the rest of your hand for 3 additional mana to play either the tutored card to the any of your 7 new cards. However, Gooba's list runs only 5 cards that LED is good with (Twister, Tinker, Jar, Will, and Demonic) and really any card is good with Demonic or Will.

David's list runs Infernal Contract, Gush, and Frantic Search which are all uncombo with LED (he plays these over Grims and other draw7's). Imagine playing a Infernal Contract with LED on the table. If you break LED, you better hit the absolute nuts. It's a very risky play.

The opportunity cost of running LED is running 1 less Cabal Ritual. Cabal Ritual is a better card in this deck because it let's you power out the cards that are currently in your hand, plus it can make absurd amounts of mana like LED can.

Thanks, those answers are absolutely correct. Originally my list ran Windfall, a single Grim and an LED. Once those cards were removed, the led went with them for the reasons mentioned above. The problem is that LED dosen't fit in with the "Bomb" theory. Once you play it, you are putting all your money into a spell that probably has a likelyhood of getting countered, or possibly not winning, this leaves you in a helpless situation.

I might have switched out GWS Long with Pitch Long (both of which were heavily developed by Becker) simply because PL helped define a metagame.

I should have probably added Pitch Long, the reasons I included Grim was to represent that type of deck, which I kind of group together with PL because of it's will reliance and same basic bomb spells, although they have different protection.

Personally, I think there isn't much of a reason to play Tendrils because Flash does everything Tendrils decks want to only for less mana and can fit in 12 disruption spells.  Is there any real reason to play storm when you could play Flash?

Yes. In a flash-hate filled environment is where the deck really shines. The deck has almost no graveyard reliance, runs double tendrils in case of stifle, and has many bombs to combat counters. It is a metagame call, this deck cannot be hated out as easily as most other combo decks, especially flash. When a combo deck dosen't rely on it's graveyard, there are many fewer sideboard cards against it. This deck can move around chalice at 0,1 or 2, it can run around 2 Sphere, it can run around grave hate and does much better against mindscensor. The only card it really has trouble with, is pillar, which is rarely played because it isn't really good against the dominant combo deck in the format (flash). The second reason is that I am a tendrils player, and i believe this to be a very good list for a tendrils deck, if you choose to play it, now whether this is up to par with flash is a different matter, and i don't think I can answer this without more tourney data.

Could you post any sort of matchup analysis, or sideboarding plans? I'm interested in trying this deck but I want to make sure I play it to its fullest potential.

It has been a really long weekend with all the Gencon events. I will try to answer this as soon as possible.

[goobafish]

On Saturday I piloted the deck again, I went 3-1, then attempted to draw into top 8 at 6th seed, but all things that could have stopped me from making it did, so I ended up in 9th. Anyways the deck ran well, I hit 2 stax, gush tendrils and my loss was to U/W control with mindscensors and counterbalance/top. My changes were -1 gush -1 frantic search +1 grim tutor +1 led. Overall I think the deck has a lot of potential without flash in the metagame, which might become the case in a few days. As I mentioned in the article, the deck has no problem playing around chalice, sphere, leyline and other hate cards, because you have such a variety of ways of winning. The unexpected factor was also helpful. I did a lot of Draw 4, then pass the turn in order to set up the second turn win with duress backup. I have done some (but definately not enough) testing against gat, and the deck doesn't seem to have too much of a hard time with gat, but it has a hard time with flash. The sideboard is totally up in the air at this point, I think that for like 1 of my matchups I didn't even sideboard. Against stax, I love having multiples of rebuild in order to take a setup turn, and then a winning turn. That way you can rebuild away their spheres and lock pieces to take a turn to develop, and then do it again to take the winning turn. Against stax, if on the draw, I tend to take out any combination of time walk and duresses for 2 rebuilds and a darksteel colossus. For gush tendrils, there was nothing I wanted in my sideboard. For U/W control with mindscensors i put in a pair of massacres and took out a draw 4 and possibly a time walk. I would really like to entertain sideboarding ideas.

[hauntedechos]

Thanks very much for writing this article for your exam.  I agree with Philip, this is a VERY good starting point for players trying to get into combo play.  I've tinkered with Meandeck Tendrils, and I love the deck, however, I really want to find a combo deck that I am comfortable with.  You mentioned how important that aspect is when deciding to dive into combo play.

While I also agree with the sentiment "why play a combo deck, when Flash does everything you want a combo deck to do....", the only logical explanation is, you either really love stringing cards along into a storm kill, or you want something that makes you think.  I'm partial to both.

All of that aside, where would you suggest a Vintage player to start in terms of building the very essential knowledge of combo play?  Are there players you would suggest as good starting points to talk to?  I know that Eric and Philip and Steve are obvious candidates, but what about lesser knowns, like Codi Vinci, who constructed a solid Tendrils list for a Roanoke Day2 win?

When looking to build a Tendrls list, what would you consider a solid starting point, in terms of considerations of design and meta etc.?

Anyways Gooba, congrats on making full membership and a solid topic for the community; keep up the good work man.

cheers
Mike

[ErkBek]

All of that aside, where would you suggest a Vintage player to start in terms of building the very essential knowledge of combo play? 

Check out what I consider to be my finest work, the GWS Long Primer.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=33269.0

Also, I'm happy to answer any questions about deckbuilding or play situations with storm combo, just PM me.

When looking to build a Tendrls list, what would you consider a solid starting point, in terms of considerations of design and meta etc.?

When building a tendrils deck you've got a couple of things to consider. The first thing is don't be afraid to try something new if you have found some powerful synergy. Before actually playing this deck, you've got to consider the metagame. In some metagames you need FoW, others you can get away with just duress or some combination of Duress, Reb, and Extirpate.

[goobafish]

All of that aside, where would you suggest a Vintage player to start in terms of building the very essential knowledge of combo play?  Are there players you would suggest as good starting points to talk to?  I know that Eric and Philip and Steve are obvious candidates, but what about lesser knowns, like Codi Vinci, who constructed a solid Tendrils list for a Roanoke Day2 win?

When looking to build a Tendrls list, what would you consider a solid starting point, in terms of considerations of design and meta etc.?

Thanks for reading.

I really feel that it is great to talk to all well reputed combo deck-builders and players when starting off to get their ideas into why they designed the deck like they did. The design is really secondary to the reason for designing it. Let's say you start off looking at a metagame with a lot of control decks, and that you really hate fizzling because of a counter, and then loosing because you can't recuperate. You need a list that can take a few counters and still go off a few turns later (hence the bomb theory that I presented in this article). If you see a field full of other combo decks, you want a deck that can race all the others (similar to Meandeck Tendirils). Anyone with real experience piloting their own combo deck is a really good resource.

As I mentioned in the article the best starting point for designing your personal deck, is your playstyle. It is extremelly important to not sit down and simply goldfish, but to test against real hate and control players. For example, while goldfishing this deck seems to be a tad slow, but after extensive testing against a complicated deck to play against, like stax, it is clear how well it can fight hate. I personally hate playing a combo deck that totally flips to a certain card, which is why I developed this, it does not loose to 1 specific card, it has a fighting chance against all hate. It all really boils down to how you play, and what you want to fight against. I really hate being dead in the water, and i always want a chance to win. Some players prefer all or nothing styles, or really controlish styles (which are presented at the beginning of the article). It is really to each his or her own. Start with comfort, and adapt to the metagame later.

[KiernanM]

2 random nitpicks:

1.  Let's assume you don't have Tolarian Academy in play.  Why is Frantic such a bomb, esp. on turn 1 or 2?  Keep in mind I have no idea what I'm talking about, when I ask this question.  I ask, merely because the last combo list I've seen include Frantic Search is an old TPS build w/ Time Spiral, Windfall, etc. 
2.  You mention in the original post that, you don't use potentially dead cards like FoW, Mana Drain, and Echoing Truth .... but you run 1 Chain of Vapor.  Why Chain over Echoing Truth, esp. when trying to combat Chalice @ 1? 

[goobafish]

2 random nitpicks:

1.  Let's assume you don't have Tolarian Academy in play.  Why is Frantic such a bomb, esp. on turn 1 or 2?  Keep in mind I have no idea what I'm talking about, when I ask this question.  I ask, merely because the last combo list I've seen include Frantic Search is an old TPS build w/ Time Spiral, Windfall, etc. 
2.  You mention in the original post that, you don't use potentially dead cards like FoW, Mana Drain, and Echoing Truth .... but you run 1 Chain of Vapor.  Why Chain over Echoing Truth, esp. when trying to combat Chalice @ 1? 

Frantic search is really good for fixing mana problems, such as lack of black, but you are right, it is meant to combo with academy, which it does very well. I have since cut search from my list because there are better bombs than it.

Chain can act as a storm enabler, while Echoing truth cannot. I tend to switch it up a bit when I sideboard, the original board had a couple of e truths a hurkyls, a rebuild and a chain so that you have various types and CC of bounce spells. Chain of Vapor is cheap bounce, and also acts as a huge storm enabler.