Football

[Vegeta2711]

Ugh.  I think the Bears best offensive options are either

1. Go 3-and-out as soon as possible so they can get Devin Hester 14 punt returns per game

OR

2. Flip the scoreboard to show the other team up by 14 pts.  It's like every time they're down 2 TDs, they open it up and score much more easily.  You think a highly paid coaching staff would notice this and try that earlier.  Maybe it's just me.

Option 1 is probably our best bet though...

I concur. Wasn't this also suggested last year in the playoffs as well?

Although it looks like the rushing defense needs more help than the offense at the moment. Letting a beast like AP run all over them is one thing, but 200+ yards and 3 touchdowns is completely ridiculous. The sad part is you KNOW Minnesota is going to run it all day because that's literally all the team is configured to do as it stands.

EDIT: P.S. Is it just me or does it seem like Cleavland is a legitimate team this year and setting up to be pretty good in the next year or two? They seem like the most improved team in the league this year so far considering I'd of pegged tham at 0-6 or 1-5 before the season started. 3-3 including beats against two of last year's playoff teams is solid.

[forests failed you]

My God was New England completely insane yesterday.  They thrashed Dallas in the second half.  Tom Brady is the win.

[Dante]

Although it looks like the rushing defense needs more help than the offense at the moment. Letting a beast like AP run all over them is one thing, but 200+ yards and 3 touchdowns is completely ridiculous. The sad part is you KNOW Minnesota is going to run it all day because that's literally all the team is configured to do as it stands.

EDIT: P.S. Is it just me or does it seem like Cleavland is a legitimate team this year and setting up to be pretty good in the next year or two? They seem like the most improved team in the league this year so far considering I'd of pegged tham at 0-6 or 1-5 before the season started. 3-3 including beats against two of last year's playoff teams is solid.

Yes, the defense at this point is only somewhat above average, mostly due to

1. decimated D-Line - ugh.  They can't stop the run with Tommie Harris alone, who knows if he's even 100%.  Their stop-gap guys have even gone down.
2. horrible safeties - with Mike Brown out (Again) for the season Chris McGowan and Adam Archuletta aren't going to get it done.

The Defense at this point is basically Urlacher, Lance Briggs, Peanut Tillman and a bunch of guys running around.  The D-line let the Viking backs run straight through at full steam into the LB and secondary and the LB/secondary missed about 4,561 tackles.  When the Vikings run 43 times and your star D-lineman (Tommie HArris) only has 1 tackle all day, that's not good.

Yes, Cleveland is not horrible and moving into "slightly above mediocre" range this season - they're doing what everyone predicted Arizona would do for 6 years running - step it up, be competitive, and give themselves a chance to go to the next (winning/playoff) level.

[LordHomerCat]

The bears should really just run as many gadget plays to get Hester the ball as possible.  And, they should probably not ever run another passing play.  Ideally, they could just snap it to Hester directly and like score a touchdown 1 in 10 or something.

[Dxfiler]

An interesting stat I just learned on NFL live-

Brady is the only QB to have won first 6 games all by over 30 points.  That's insane.

I'm looking forward to november 4th because I want us to put the hurting on Indy and it could be the first time ever that two 8-0 teams go head to head.

Even if one or both teams get a loss before than, that's basically my superbowl.  Those are the two teams I want to watch go at it and they are clearly the best two teams right now, like em or hate em.

Before week 9 Indy has Jacksonville and Carolina... NE has Miami and Washington.  I expect both teams to live up to both of their ends and make this historic showdown.

- Dave Feinstein

[Meddling Mike]

Before week 9 Indy has Jacksonville and Carolina... NE has Miami and Washington.  I expect both teams to live up to both of their ends and make this historic showdown.

I actually wouldn't count out Indy's next two opponents so quickly. The jaguars and Carolina both have winning records and have seemed to hit their strides recently. This is especially true for Jacksonville, they lost a close game to the Titans in the opener, but have really gotten their game together recently, They're second in the league for points allowed second to only the Steelers and had a pretty convincing win over Houston last Sunday.

As for the Patriots schedule, last year the Patriots were shut out when they went down to Miami, final score 0-21 Miami, even though Miami had a much worse record than the playoff bound Pats. It's rare that the Patriots play well down in Miami....must be the heat. The Redskins are not exactly pushovers at 3-2 either. They looked bad early on by beating Miami in overtime in the opener, beating a Philadelphia team that has since gotten itself together and losing to a Giants team that came into the game 0-2 and is now on a 4 game winning streak, they beat the pants off Detroit and gave the Packers a nail biter last weekend. They're a little better than their record shows and they're 3rd in the league for points allowed.

Every one of these games has "IT'S A TRAP" written all over it

That said, I still think both teams going into week 9 undefeated is the most likely scenario.

I'm looking forward to november 4th because I want us to put the hurting on Indy and it could be the first time ever that two 8-0 teams go head to head.

[nitpick]Well, Indy had the bye this Sunday, so the best record they could have on Nov. 4 would be 7-0[/nitpick]

Brady is the only QB to have won first 6 games all by over 30 points.  That's insane.

[nitpick]I'm pretty sure you misphrased this, I think what you meant to say is that they scored over 30 points in all 6 games, the only game in which the margin of victory was over 30 points was the 38-7 win against Buffalo[/nitpick]

[Dante]

Just when the Bears look like they choked it away by allowing Philly the go ahead touchdown, they pull some Miracle-Whip out of their ass.  I certainly didn't think they had a 90 second 97-yard game winning drive in them....ugh.  Both Philly and Chicago are barely a tad above mediocre (and philly has a 2-4 record) at best...

[Meddling Mike]

The Pats game on Sunday was just brutal, the week before Brady set his personal career high of 5 touchdown passes, against the Dolphins he put up that many in the first half. They were practically comatose in the second half and cruised to 7-0. Miami should try keeping a coach for longer than 2 seasons and starting from scratch, they should have a good pick in the draft at this rate. At this point it doesn't seem like anybody but Indy can stand toe to toe with the Patriots.....maybe the Steelers on a good day...

I was a little disappointed with how little fight the Jags had, but that might have something to do with Garrard going down early and the backup, Gray, being beyond awful. Seriously, 9/24 with two interceptions and no touchdowns? Kind of hard to beat the Colts with that kind of offensive production. Maybe Carolina can surprise them with the extra prep time from their bye week? Even if it wasn't against the Colts you've gotta love that they're running Vinny Testaverde out there for one last try.

[Vegeta2711]

Raiders lose to Kansas City for the billionth time since we went to the super bowl and the 49ers get run over because Dilfer keeps forgetting two things.
A. He's old
B. We aren't the Ravens offensive line. He won't have approximately 15 seconds a play to throw the ball.

Griese led a last second drive down the field with no timeouts and no plays called by the coach, proving that anybody with half a brain knows more about offensive football plays than the Bears staff. Seriously between that, the BUF/DAL MNF game and the Cleavland - Cincy shootout earlier in the season there is so much odd shit happening that I'm just waiting for something insane to happen each week.

[kirdape3]

Manning and the Colts aren't winning with flashy offensive explosions.  They're winning because they are absolutely certain that they can move the football on you and punch the ball in the end zone no matter who you are.  Their run defense is adequate to good with Bob Sanders in the lineup and their pass defense is very stout.

The key matchup will be whether or not the ground game of the Colts can keep crashing over for five yards a pop at will against any opposition.  If Indianapolis can run the football, stopping them is harder than stopping the Patriots' offense.  Yes, I know that the Patriots have put up 40 points a game.  It's mostly predicated on people wanting to double Moss and then losing to Welker in the slot and Stallworth on the other side, but Indianapolis has the personnel and speed to not immediately die to Welker (and also if Morris and Maroney are still out it's not like they have to worry about a credible ground game).

[Meddling Mike]

I know this thread has been mostly about the NFL, but did anybody see tonight's game 2 Boston College v. 8 Virginia Tech? It was absolutely amazing. I was on BC's campus when they made that amazing fourth quarter comeback and the whole campus was in a frenzy.

[GrandmasterNinja]

I watched the BC game till about 4 min left in the 4th Q expecting the #2 team to go down again...oops!

Another thing about college football, whats up the rankings?  Ohio St. may be undefeated but they are not the #1 College team in the nation.  Yes they are good, very good but there are better teams.  LSU, Cal, USC, UF...the Sec and Pac-10 are the top two divisions out there and the teams in those are beating each other up, it happens every year.  Many Sec teams could compete with lower level NFL teams like the Fins and Rams. 

I'm a Pack fan so I love that we're winning.  My problem is that I feel we shoul only be 3-3 right now.  All our wins except the Giants game are by seven points or less.  We are not dominating, we are playing well on both sides of the ball, just enough to win.  At least we have been in very game we've played, no blowouts.  But we haven't played the Colts or Patriots. 

Speaking of the Patriots, hot damn!  Is anyone going to stop them?  I feel only two things can, the Colts or massive injuries.  The Colts and Pats are head and shoulders above everyone one else then there are some solid, good teams but no one in their stratosphere.   

[Vegeta2711]

Speaking of the Patriots, hot damn!  Is anyone going to stop them?

First team that figures out they should be cheapshotting and late-hitting Brady every chance they get. They probably still don't win, but it gives the team that gets them next week has a chance. If Baltimore can get their shit together, maybe they play physically hard enough to give Pitt a shot.

Assuming the Colts aren't up to the task, of course.

[Dante]

just to point out about the Patriots, the records of their opponents as of 5:40PM central is

1-6
3-3
2-5
2-4
6-1
0-8

assuming they beat Washington, the Redskins will be 4-3.

That's a combined record of 18-30.

Not that they're not one of the best teams, but they haven't exactly had a tough schedule thus far.

[Vegeta2711]

Think it's safe to say they beat Washington. 52-0... er, 52-7.  :lol:

[Dante]

just as safe to say that the Bears season is over.

[Vegeta2711]

just as safe to say that the Bears season is over.

Niners are right there with ya.  *sigh* And I had hope this season, back to the drawing board and more rants about how bad Alex Smith is.

[Meddling Mike]

just to point out about the Patriots, the records of their opponents as of 5:40PM central is

1-6
3-3
2-5
2-4
6-1
0-8

assuming they beat Washington, the Redskins will be 4-3.

That's a combined record of 18-30.

Not that they're not one of the best teams, but they haven't exactly had a tough schedule thus far.

For starters, the Patriots were 7-0 when you posted this, and you've only listed 6 records, so that's not right.

as of 7:30 the numbers look like this:
Wk 1: Jets 1-7
Wk 2: San Diego 4-3
Wk 3: Buffalo 3-4
Wk 4: Cincy 2-5
Wk 5: Cleveland 4-3
Wk 6: Dallas 6-1
Wk 7: Miami 0-8
Wk 8: Washington 4-3

I think you forgot about the Browns or the Chargers, not sure which.

so, opponents combined records 24-34, work into the mix that the Patriots were responsible for 8 of those losses and that the average margin of victory has been 25.5 points I don't think that really says too much. Their big win over the Cowboys shows they can beat good teams just as well as bad ones.

just as safe to say that the Bears season is over.

Niners are right there with ya.  *sigh* And I had hope this season, back to the drawing board and more rants about how bad Alex Smith is.

Well, at least the Niners have a nice early first round draft pick to look forward to....oh....wait....nevermind ....

[Vegeta2711]

*shrug*

Early 1st round draft picks are the most overrated and risky player installing devices in the NFL right now. You have to pay far too much money for players of questionable use and piss of some vets at the same time. In some cases it makes sense if you're getting what you believe to be an all world talent like say (using this year as an example) Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson, two players who coming in were basically one of those  few every decade type of talents where the reward/risk ratio is way up there.

On the other side you have teams like the Raiders taking Jamarcus Russel and the Fins taking Ted Ginn Jr.

Their big win over the Cowboys shows they can beat good teams just as well as bad ones.

I really don't think any team in the NFC can be considered good when you look at the top five teams in the AFC.

On a sidenote: Effectively pissing on Joe Gibbs was bush league by BB. Gibbs didn't even bother with the handshake.

[Meddling Mike]

*shrug*

Early 1st round draft picks are the most overrated and risky player installing devices in the NFL right now. You have to pay far too much money for players of questionable use and piss of some vets at the same time. In some cases it makes sense if you're getting what you believe to be an all world talent like say (using this year as an example) Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson, two players who coming in were basically one of those  few every decade type of talents where the reward/risk ratio is way up there.

On the other side you have teams like the Raiders taking Jamarcus Russel and the Fins taking Ted Ginn Jr.

Their big win over the Cowboys shows they can beat good teams just as well as bad ones.

I really don't think any team in the NFC can be considered good when you look at the top five teams in the AFC.

On a sidenote: Effectively pissing on Joe Gibbs was bush league by BB. Gibbs didn't even bother with the handshake.

The Patriots have been one of the most consistently strong drafting teams over the past few years. I trust they'll get an excellent player with their pick. They also don't need to use their pick to fill any holes at Quarterback like alot of high pick teams need to do. If they get a high draft pick they might be able to pick up a really great running back like Adrian Peterson rather than a Mediocre one like Laurence Maroney. Picking Ted Ginn Jr. was absolutely stupid. Why get a receiver when you don't have a decent quarterback to throw to him? Jamarcus Russel hasn't been put into a game yet, isn't it a little early to be passing judgement on him?

I'd be the first to acknowledge the AFC-NFC disparity, but 6-1 still counts for something, they're not Indianapolis or New England good, but I'd put them in at a distant #3. Who else are you putting above them? Pitt? Titans? Jags? The Steelers are the only one I think you can make a good argument for, and they're too inconsistent.

What do people want from Bill? Put Matt Cassel in after the half? Start kneeling with 10 minutes left in the fourth quarter? Yell at Matt Cassel for running for that touchdown? Say "Hey, I know you're just backups and if you ever want to do something to get noticed and be a starter someday this is all you've got, but let's take it easy on em huh? Wouldn't want to hurt their feelings" If Joe doesn't want the score run up maybe he should put a defense on the field that can stop the Patriots backup QB and the Patriots backup RB. The perception that Bill runs up the score whenever possible is a misperception spread by people like Gregg Easterbrook on TMQ, the Patriots have ended a bunch of games this year on a kneel deep into opposing territory. Maybe I should get mad at Gibbs for going for a TD to break up the shutout when the game was clearly over. Gibbs himself said in the post game press conference that he had no problem with anything the Patriots did and felt they were a talented well coached team.

[Vegeta2711]

Jamarcus Russel hasn't been put into a game yet, isn't it a little early to be passing judgement on him?

There's no good reason to pick the QB you know is going to want a boatload of cash and is going to take major work to adjust to the pro game for the Raiders. The team has been in rebuilding mode for years now, get a middle of the road QB and at least pretend to be competitive and make use of the defense the team has had (or used too anyway). This is all moreso true if you aren't willing to pay the money to the guy in the first place! Like I know it's much more difficult to trade down than public perception, but I mean look at what the Browns gave up to get Brady Quinn and at the moment they haven't even needed him thanks to Derek Anderson.

If they get a high draft pick they might be able to pick up a really great running back like Adrian Peterson rather than a Mediocre one like Laurence Maroney.

Out of curiosity, what's the high RB you'd go for in the 08 draft?

In the AFC: NE, Indy, Pitt, SD and Jax; although historically Denver has been up there as well, but it seems like the defense has fallen apart this year.

easterbrook

Easterbrook is like the anti-Simmons as far as the Pats go. Both are good writers and entertaining, but lack any sort of objective rationale when judging the Patriots and really pretty poor football knowledge in general. Cute for a morning read, but that's it.

What do people want from Bill?

Keep the starters in for however long they want.
And then hand the ball off to Heath Evans.
And then hand the ball of to Eckel.
And then hand the ball off to Faulk.
Run time off the clock and get the game over with.

Those are some suggestions. It's not like other teams in the league haven't done complete blowouts and then not run up the score.

The Chargers were up 35-3 at halftime today and threw 3 passes in the entire 2nd half. They also have a worse defense than NE, yet somehow the coaching staff felt they could risk it. It's not even that they score a shitload of points or that they keep Brady in. It's that they keep passing when they've already shown to be in complete control of the game.

I mean you don't QB sneak on 4th and 1 when up by 38. That's just stupid all around. It's meaningless unless Brady gets hurt on the play. Why call that? 

Maybe I should get mad at Gibbs for going for a TD to break up the shutout when the game was clearly over.

C'mon, be serious. It's not even close to the same and you should know that. If you want to just do shtick, don't pretend to use any arguments in the rest of the post.

[Dante]

It's professional athletics - as far as I'm concerned, there is no running up the score.  The reason is that with each touchdown and each massive blowout (not just a 20 point blowout, but a 30-50 point blowout), a team gets that much more into the heads of other teams creating a psychological advantage before anyone even steps on the field.  Remember they might play a lot of these teams in their own division, or the AFC playoffs, or the Super Bowl.  If you can't stop them, don't bitch about it later.  They're a passing offense and each series is an opportunity to hone the offense and get Brady in sync with receivers - why should they give up the chance to get better simply because the other team can't hang with them?

No one blasted the Jordan Bulls for decimating other teams, even late in the game, because that was part of their mystique - that you were beaten before you stepped onto the court.

[Dxfiler]

Inside the NFL brought up running up the score the other week and Dan Marino just wouldn't let it go.  DAN MARINO. 

Might as well just bring on Peyton to say the same thing (wait they just crushed a team today too).

The running up the score talk is garbage.  Any team has a right to score as many points as they possibly can if they are able to.  As Bellichick said it isn't over until that 4th quarter game clock runs out.  They put in Cassel for 10 minutes and look what happened.  You go from 42-7 to a two posession game.

All that talk about running up the score hasn't appeared to change the Pats at all... they stomped 52-7 Washington today and I'm glad they did.  Indy also had a blowout game and finally we get to see the real Superbowl.  Next week is the game of the season hands down.  Regardless of the outcome these two teams are currently the best in the NFL and arguably you have the best two coaches and quarterbacks with that.

My ass is ordering a pizza next week and watching history go down.

- Dave 

[Meddling Mike]

Out of curiosity, what's the high RB you'd go for in the 08 draft?

If you were making a point about the lack of high profile, Adrian Petersonesque RB's in NCAA right now, then I see your point. If this was a serious question I think Mike Hart (Michigan) or Ray Rice (Rutgers) can both be solid RB's in the NFL that could replace Maroney. I think any success Maroney has had this year is strictly due to the fact that Brady and the receivers are taking so much attention off him.

Maybe RB wasn't the best example, but they could still pick up a great player in a lower profile position. Pretty sure they're going to have some problems in the secondary when Asante Samuel wants to go elsewhere after another solid year.

I mean look at what the Browns gave up to get Brady Quinn and at the moment they haven't even needed him thanks to Derek Anderson.

Maybe the Browns don't really need him, but the Dolphins could sure use somebody better than Trent Green or Cleo Lemon.

Easterbrook is like the anti-Simmons as far as the Pats go. Both are good writers and entertaining, but lack any sort of objective rationale when judging the Patriots and really pretty poor football knowledge in general. Cute for a morning read, but that's it.

I don't think we disagree on this point, but he does have a readership. Well on the subject, I'm also pissed at Simmons for perpetuating this perception of the "eff you TD" and refusing to acknowledge BC's run at the National Championship.

C'mon, be serious. It's not even close to the same and you should know that. If you want to just do shtick, don't pretend to use any arguments in the rest of the post.

I'm clearly not mad at Gibbs for trying to salvage a little pride after that beating, but I was exaggerating to make a point. My point is you should be encouraging your team to play hard regardless. If BB was really trying to run up the score, it would have been Brady to Moss with :22 left deep in Washington territory, not third stringer Gutierrez taking a knee.

As for the Chargers, they don't have a pass game anyways, and they did have LT, last year's league MVP, running in the 4th Quarter. The Patriots don't have a true run game like most teams. They rely heavily on their short passing game for small and intermediate yardage. Also, what kills the clock faster? A mix of running and short high percentage passing that prolongs the drive, or 3 and outs that give the ball back to Washington so they can try and save face with some late points? I guarantee this game ended faster Bill's way.

[Meddling Mike]

On a sidenote: Effectively pissing on Joe Gibbs was bush league by BB. Gibbs didn't even bother with the handshake.

Came across this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/gallery/enlargePhoto?id=3084555

[Vegeta2711]

On a sidenote: Effectively pissing on Joe Gibbs was bush league by BB. Gibbs didn't even bother with the handshake.

Came across this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/gallery/enlargePhoto?id=3084555

Yeah I was mistaken and turns out NFLN and the post-game show on Fox were wrong as well when talking about it right after the game.

[Scott_Limoges]

People have been talking about the Pats and Colts for 4 weeks, now.  The week is finally here.  Whats going to happen?

[Meddling Mike]

People have been talking about the Pats and Colts for 4 weeks, now.  The week is finally here.  Whats going to happen?

My prediction: The first half will be very similar to last year's AFC Championship. The Colts will rally in the second half, but the Patriots will score the TD necessary to hold off the rally. Basically, what would have happened last year if Reche Caldwell could catch a pass. Score 38-28

[kirdape3]

If I were the Patriots I'd be really wary of the Colts just smashing the interior of their defensive line with Addai.  The Indianapolis offensive line is the best in football and they are proven capable of running the football on anyone.  That will likely be the key to the game, as well as whether or not Indianapolis can get a stop on Brady (likely since Freeney and Mathis have enough speed to run right around any tackle in the league).  38-35, Colts.

[JACO]

People have been talking about the Pats and Colts for 4 weeks, now.  The week is finally here.  Whats going to happen?

Patriots 44, Colts 24. Take the over.