Double Striker

[zimagic]

Dreaming (wet) about something along these lines:

 
Blade Master
Creature - Kithkin Soldier (Whatever tribe/class is being pushed at the time)
Kithkins/Soldiers have Double-Strike
1/1

or

 
Camoflaged Hunter
Creature - Beast Warrior
Non-token creatures with a casting cost of 2 or less have Double Strike.
Each non-token creature's power is equal to their printed power. (* equals 0)
1/1


There's obvious pie problems with a Green double striker but flavour wise there's nothing stopping a creature jumping out and hitting you before you can react and hitting you again during the fight.

Both are technically 2/1s in terms of attacking and blocking damage and each has a symestrical sliver-esque effect (moreso in terms of the white creature.)

Let me know what you think.

Edit 1 for "printed power"
Edit 2 for "non-token"

[asi]

Tarmogoyf shouldn't get doublestrike. Ever. [actually, just not so easily]

The white one is VERY good, considering Boros Swiftblade. Remember, double strike doubles it's current power as well as any power boost, and acts as semi-first strike.

[zimagic]

Tarmogoyf shouldn't get doublestrike. Ever. [actually, just not so easily]

The white one is VERY good, considering Boros Swiftblade. Remember, double strike doubles it's current power as well as any power boost, and acts as semi-first strike.

Yep, I'm quite aware of the implications of both of these creatures in the current standard and beyond.

The white card would necessarily have to be race/class worded to keep it in check and similliarly CC colour costed. The advantage of this restriction is that it could be used to push a minor Race or Class and not necessarily be Kithkin or Soldier as given above. These were just placemarkers, if you will. It's a really good rare slot WW but in the right set is perfectly fine. I'd say by the end of the Block Season I'm sure you'd be happy to have these in your Kithkin deck to make them viable.

The green version is a direct derivitive of the first card and stems from the question as to why green doesn't get the best creatures. The White card is obviously a great creature, what would the green version be like? Sharing and blanket effects generally don't happen outside Elves so what can green do that would work off this card

I was thinking about various takes on "Casting cost matters" as a way to restrict this being too abusive. CC over 2 is a problem. CC of 1 is not really important outside elves for this effect. Where this is going to watershed as a restriction would really have to be at 2cc. The only problem at 2cc is the aforementioned 'Goyf. But is the problem here the effect of the Camoflaged Hunter or the power level of the 'Goyf?

Without getting into a debate about 'Goyf, I think we can all agree that his power to CC ratio is potentially much too high. Green got the best creature because R&D disgegarded the guidelines in terms of potential brute power in relation to cost. I'm happy Green got a great creature but I think R&D will be designing around this card for a while to the detriment of Green overall.

[Titanium Dragon]

I don't think "creatures you control have double strike" is going to ever be reasonably costed, and that's fundamentally what these cards do. Its just broken. Even if you limited this to 1-drops only, they're still incredibly dangerous cards, though less broken.

It isn't just tarmogoyf that the green one breaks - its every cheap, efficiently costed creature. Watchwolf, Scab-Clan Mauler, even that 3/1 for 1W from Future Sight, not to mention cards like Kird Ape, Savannah Lions, and Isamaru. Its also off-color.

I dunno. Giving all creatures, or even a large subset of creatures, double strike is incredibly dangerous from a design perspective, as suddenly Giant Growth domes for 6 damage.

[zimagic]

I don't think "creatures you control have double strike" is going to ever be reasonably costed, and that's fundamentally what these cards do. Its just broken. Even if you limited this to 1-drops only, they're still incredibly dangerous cards, though less broken.

It isn't just tarmogoyf that the green one breaks - its every cheap, efficiently costed creature. Watchwolf, Scab-Clan Mauler, even that 3/1 for 1W from Future Sight, not to mention cards like Kird Ape, Savannah Lions, and Isamaru. Its also off-color.

I dunno. Giving all creatures, or even a large subset of creatures, double strike is incredibly dangerous from a design perspective, as suddenly Giant Growth domes for 6 damage.

While it doesn't rein in the power of the double strike effect, making it symetrical does go some way to making it a difficult play against other creature decks.

Part of what I like about it is the Giant Growth effect, not that it goes for 6, but now people will push to play GG rather than it being a meh card as it is currently.

If we want to tone down the power level you can always add a line of rules text that says "Each creature's p/t is */* (where */* is the printed p/t) and can't be modifyed". (Bleuch for formatting!!)That would nerf both power level issues and Goyf problems in one go. I'd prefer to work with the original and see what happens, though this nerf would also nerf any -x/-x effects, a nice side effect.

[zimagic]

If we want to tone down the power level you can always add a line of rules text that says "Each creature's p/t is */* (where */* is the printed p/t) and can't be modifyed". (Bleuch for formatting!!)That would nerf both power level issues and Goyf problems in one go. I'd prefer to work with the original and see what happens, though this nerf would also nerf any -x/-x effects, a nice side effect.

This currently leaves me with this:
 
Camoflaged Hunter
Creature - Beast Warrior
Creatures with a casting cost of 2 or less have Double Strike.
Each creature's power is equal to their printed power. (* equals 0)
1/1

I left it at power to allow creatures to build up their toughness.
Can I have some suggestions on cleaning up the formatting/text?

[SpencerForHire]

Your most recent adaptation is equally ludicrous because it is effectively errataing a single card in consideration to this deck.  No card should specifically negate ONE other card.  For instance, no where in magic is there a card that says "Blue instants that cost 1 mana draw you one less card."

[Harlequin]

Also, you can't really go with "Card Printed" either.  In power and toughness, it's less dangerous than other things, but look at card like Mishrah's factory, morph creatures, and anything that creates tokens... they would have undefined power. 

[Liam-K]

The green one make your guys HUGE, does retarded things with umezawa's jitte, makes those opponent discards a card when you attack guys brutal, and the tribal guy probably shuts off too much design space (trigger on attack stuff in that tribe becomes impossible).

[zimagic]

The green one make your guys HUGE, does stupid things with umezawa's jitte, makes those opponent discards a card when you attack guys brutal, and the tribal guy probably shuts off too much design space (trigger on attack stuff in that tribe becomes impossible).

Hi Liam
Are you referring to the original version or to the 'Printed P/T' version of the green dude? I think that the stat boosters issue can be solved with the second version. I accept that the initial version was well above acceptable power levels. I tend to start with a wow idea and try to work it down to an acceptably playable level. I don't get the discard a card reference.

With regard to the White version, apart from the current crop of Kithkin, what tribe/class has a large number of trigger on attack abilities? It's certainly not an area that R&D have gone into in much depth, though you are correct in saying that it would severly limit that possibility in the chosen tribe/class. I don't think it's such a loss (outside of Kithkin) for the moment.

Also, you can't really go with "Card Printed" either.  In power and toughness, it's less dangerous than other things, but look at card like Mishrah's factory, morph creatures, and anything that creates tokens... they would have undefined power. 

Yeah, this is a problem but is currently the only way I can word it to get the effect i want on creature cards. Token issues could be solved by the insertion of "non-token" in the "Double Strike" and, most likely, the "Creature's power" lines. It makes it more wordy but it's obvious that the text needs work. Do you have a suggestion for a workaround that avoids "printed"?

Your most recent adaptation is equally ludicrous because it is effectively errataing a single card in consideration to this deck.  No card should specifically negate ONE other card.  For instance, no where in magic is there a card that says "Blue instants that cost 1 mana draw you one less card."

  Why, thank you!

While 'Goyf was a consideration for this card being changed from it's basic inception, it's no less an excellent card because it's not broken. I think 'Goyf was mentioned as an extreme example of the effect that's nonetheless likely to be a common event if this card were ever to see play.

What exactly is ludicrous (I'll accept the "equally" as a mild rebuke at my penchant for starting a card at a high powerlevel before reining it in to playable levels!) about this version? That it's been made less overpowered? Hardly. 'Goyf, the errata'ed card (lol), will still be excellent regardless of whether something like what I'm proposing was ever made.

For all the games where 'Goyf isn't present, Camoflaged Hunter makes your 1cc & 2cc dudes hit twice. "Blue instants that cost 1 mana draw you one less card" is a dead card against almost every deck.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Keep it coming!