The Invitational

[LordHomerCat]

Banned list is:
All cards banned in Legacy.
All cards banned in Block Constructed.

Visiting the DCI website should give you lists for both of those.

[simo66]

Tiago Chan
Denying Channel
Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
2UU, Discard Denying Channel: Counter target spell.

At first glance, the land seems bad: the cost is high.

Recurring counter magic with Life from the Loam, seems decent for Extended. Maybe even playable in Legacy

Ahh good point, I hadn't thought of that interaction, still it's a bit too expensive to really lock an opponent out of the game although it would be back-breaking in control matchups.

[Bardo]

One of my favorite lines from Hagon's coverage:

"And there you have it: Mr. Vintage goes with Elves!"

[Zherbus]

What do you think of the decklists the pro's are playing. For the most part they seem to have just used established archetypes but do you think there are any improvements the vintage community might adopt?

Certainly not Dizzy fucking Spell. Jesus Christ.

[desolutionist]

I think that's their way of mocking the format.

[Smmenen]

That's a silly theory. 

The problem with my GAT deck was that I ran Street Wraith.  I ran it because I expected primarily a field of Flash.  Instead, I played two Gros and a Fish and lost both Gro mirrors.  If I had run Opt in the place of those Wraiths (or Ponder), I would have been fine.   My decklist from the Vintage champs would have been 10 times better.

Oh well, I still had a blast, and if you are in the area, I'll be gunslinging tomorrow. 

One other thing: the decklist that the mana drain developed for Bring Your Own Standard was SO GOOD.   We just needed better answers for the Dredge Matchup *cough* Samari of the Pale Curtain *cough* cough*.   

But if Wizards makes it a real format, the deck we came up with should be a starting point.   

[Titanium Dragon]

That's a silly theory. 

The problem with my GAT deck was that I ran Street Wraith.  I ran it because I expected primarily a field of Flash.  Instead, I played two Gros and a Fish and lost both Gro mirrors.  If I had run Opt in the place of those Wraiths (or Ponder), I would have been fine.   My decklist from the Vintage champs would have been 10 times better.

Oh well, I still had a blast, and if you are in the area, I'll be gunslinging tomorrow. 

One other thing: the decklist that the mana drain developed for Bring Your Own Standard was SO GOOD.   We just needed better answers for the Dredge Matchup *cough* Samari of the Pale Curtain *cough* cough*.   

But if Wizards makes it a real format, the deck we came up with should be a starting point.   

So what'd you think about the playskill of the pros? Do you think they're much stronger players than you, or do you think it was your deck choices and/or deckbuilding that sunk you? Or some combination of the two?

[Yare]

So what'd you think about the playskill of the pros? Do you think they're much stronger players than you, or do you think it was your deck choices and/or deckbuilding that sunk you? Or some combination of the two?

Luck (draws and/or metagame) and inexperience in formats (as opposed to just being a poor player) can be big factors as well, so I don't know that I agree with this dichotomy.  Obviously, though, Steve can speak for himself.

[SpencerForHire]

As I've mentioned to several individuals; Samurai of the Pale Curtain was mentioned in development, how it didn't make the cut in the end is beyond me.

[The Atog Lord]

Steve,

I'm very surprised, to say the least, that you included Street Wraith in your final build of GAT. ELD's first build post-unrestriction included the card, and he and I have both tested and discussed the card quite a bit. In the end, Street Wraith is quite poor against a variety of decks -- not just the aggro ones. It is bad in the mirror, which is the most damning thing one can say about a card in GAT at this moment.

[Anusien]

As I've mentioned to several individuals; Samurai of the Pale Curtain was mentioned in development, how it didn't make the cut in the end is beyond me.

Samurai of the Pale Curtain {WW} |Creature -- Fox Samurai| 2/2. Bushido 1 / If a permanent would be put into a graveyard, remove it from the game instead.

Permanent: A permanent is any card or token in the in-play zone.

This stops them from recurring Cephalid Coliseum or something, but it does not do what Planar Void or Leyline of the Void does.  I tried to express this on the BYOS board and say, "There isn't much recursion, so this doesn't do much."

[SpencerForHire]

Because it is a replacement affect, it stops Ichorid from seeing play more than once and it STOPS Bridge from Below from triggering.  That is why we believe it should have been in the sideboard.

[Anusien]

*goes back and checks* I could have sworn I was down on Samurai, but I checked the thread and it's definitely in the hot list of sideboard options.  I just think that this event was difficult to build a sideboard for.

[Shock Wave]

Steve,

I'm very surprised, to say the least, that you included Street Wraith in your final build of GAT. ELD's first build post-unrestriction included the card, and he and I have both tested and discussed the card quite a bit. In the end, Street Wraith is quite poor against a variety of decks -- not just the aggro ones. It is bad in the mirror, which is the most damning thing one can say about a card in GAT at this moment.

That's what struck me as most odd about your list as well. I'm not a GAT expert, but I have a ton of experience playing against the deck, and builds that run Street Wraith seem infinitely worse. It's surprising that since you had so much success at the Vintage champs that you chose to diverge from a winning formula.

[Meddling Mike]

Steve,

I'm very surprised, to say the least, that you included Street Wraith in your final build of GAT. ELD's first build post-unrestriction included the card, and he and I have both tested and discussed the card quite a bit. In the end, Street Wraith is quite poor against a variety of decks -- not just the aggro ones. It is bad in the mirror, which is the most damning thing one can say about a card in GAT at this moment.

That's what struck me as most odd about your list as well. I'm not a GAT expert, but I have a ton of experience playing against the deck, and builds that run Street Wraith seem infinitely worse. It's surprising that since you had so much success at the Vintage champs that you chose to diverge from a winning formula.

I never got the impression that he thought this was the correct choice, clearly in retrospect it was not. If he had gotten the Flash heavy metagame he predicted things might have gone differently. Does anybody think that Wraith is worse than the other options against flash?

[jcb193]

Steve,

Grats on representing TMD well!

One small request.  Many of us helped vote you into the invitational.  Is there anyway that you can do a tourney report, and make sure it is not premium?

JB

[Anusien]

Steve,

I'm very surprised, to say the least, that you included Street Wraith in your final build of GAT. ELD's first build post-unrestriction included the card, and he and I have both tested and discussed the card quite a bit. In the end, Street Wraith is quite poor against a variety of decks -- not just the aggro ones. It is bad in the mirror, which is the most damning thing one can say about a card in GAT at this moment.

That's what struck me as most odd about your list as well. I'm not a GAT expert, but I have a ton of experience playing against the deck, and builds that run Street Wraith seem infinitely worse. It's surprising that since you had so much success at the Vintage champs that you chose to diverge from a winning formula.

It seemed like there was tons of Flash there, but he just didn't play against it.

[Smmenen]

That's a silly theory. 

The problem with my GAT deck was that I ran Street Wraith.  I ran it because I expected primarily a field of Flash.  Instead, I played two Gros and a Fish and lost both Gro mirrors.  If I had run Opt in the place of those Wraiths (or Ponder), I would have been fine.   My decklist from the Vintage champs would have been 10 times better.

Oh well, I still had a blast, and if you are in the area, I'll be gunslinging tomorrow. 

One other thing: the decklist that the mana drain developed for Bring Your Own Standard was SO GOOD.   We just needed better answers for the Dredge Matchup *cough* Samari of the Pale Curtain *cough* cough*.   

But if Wizards makes it a real format, the deck we came up with should be a starting point.   

So what'd you think about the playskill of the pros? Do you think they're much stronger players than you, or do you think it was your deck choices and/or deckbuilding that sunk you? Or some combination of the two?

I think my performance in the Cube should answer that question.  I was drafting next to Kenji Tsumara and I beat Tiago Chan AND Rich Hoaen, who both made the finals.

I think the one area where I was repeatedly outplayed was definitely the Lorwyn Winston Draft.  I drafted decks that were very, very good, but very, very good is not good enough when you are playing with the best magic minds.   Also, playing draft perfectly and playing Constructed formats are very different matters.   I've probably done 1/50th the number of drafts as Antoine (he said as much).   He even said my deck was very good.  

My auction deck was a complete disaster and my Vintage deck was too metagamed.   Had those things been reversed, I think I would have been in contention.   3-0 in the Cube, 2-1 or 1-2 in Auction, 0-3 in Lorwyn Draft (I don't think there was anyway to really avoid that outcome - no matter how much I learned in a month or how proficient my technical playskill), 2-1 in BYOS (I would have gone 3-0 if we had Samari of the Pale Curtain), and 3-0 in the Vintage if I had played my Worlds GAT list.   I would have then been in the finals.  

I have my draft decklists which I'll post in my report (including what Kenji drafted against me).

Stephen

[Anusien]

That's a silly theory. 

The problem with my GAT deck was that I ran Street Wraith.  I ran it because I expected primarily a field of Flash.  Instead, I played two Gros and a Fish and lost both Gro mirrors.  If I had run Opt in the place of those Wraiths (or Ponder), I would have been fine.   My decklist from the Vintage champs would have been 10 times better.

Oh well, I still had a blast, and if you are in the area, I'll be gunslinging tomorrow. 

One other thing: the decklist that the mana drain developed for Bring Your Own Standard was SO GOOD.   We just needed better answers for the Dredge Matchup *cough* Samari of the Pale Curtain *cough* cough*.   

But if Wizards makes it a real format, the deck we came up with should be a starting point.   

So what'd you think about the playskill of the pros? Do you think they're much stronger players than you, or do you think it was your deck choices and/or deckbuilding that sunk you? Or some combination of the two?

I think my performance in the Cube should answer that question.  I was drafting next to Kenji Tsumara and I beat Tiago Chan AND Rich Hoaen, who both made the finals.

I think the one area where I was repeatedly outplayed was definitely the Lorwyn Winston Draft.  I drafted decks that were very, very good, but very, very good is not good enough when you are playing with the best magic minds.   Also, playing draft perfectly and playing Constructed formats are very different matters.   I've probably done 1/50th the number of drafts as Antoine (he said as much).   He even said my deck was very good.

That's what I figured.  For off time you draft T4, which meant you were better able to analyze the relative merits of the Cube cards.  On the flip side, they draft all the time which means they're much better suited to Winston (they'd drafted with those cards more too).

Edit: You know what would be awesome?  Have the Invitational a week before a PR and draft that, like the PT were no one had seen Visions (or was it Mirage?).

[Shock Wave]

Steve,

I'm very surprised, to say the least, that you included Street Wraith in your final build of GAT. ELD's first build post-unrestriction included the card, and he and I have both tested and discussed the card quite a bit. In the end, Street Wraith is quite poor against a variety of decks -- not just the aggro ones. It is bad in the mirror, which is the most damning thing one can say about a card in GAT at this moment.

That's what struck me as most odd about your list as well. I'm not a GAT expert, but I have a ton of experience playing against the deck, and builds that run Street Wraith seem infinitely worse. It's surprising that since you had so much success at the Vintage champs that you chose to diverge from a winning formula.

It seemed like there was tons of Flash there, but he just didn't play against it.

Is it worth it to run a card that is objectively poor in almost every matchup except Flash? Isn't it better to just prepare for a varied metagame and have a balanced strategy, instead of essentially hinging the effectiveness of four maindeck slots on facing a specific matchup?

Steve realizes that he overmetagamed, I'm just curious as to the reasoning that led to that decision. It's not like he wasn't aware that he was overmetagaming, since Steve knows GAT very well. I'm just wondering why he felt it was necessary to do so.

[zimagic]

He's only 0-2 so far with Elves! They played 5 total rounds today, and they'll play the last round of Auction at some later point.

I was watching the second Match of this. He walked the first game with mana elves, Tribal Forcemage and Overrun.

The second was a control grind and he kept getting his creatures stolen. 1-1

Game three he had a couple of mulligans before keeping. Willy did his thing and waited while Steve went into the tank after playing out his third land. Steve needed to get multiple bodies on the board because the single ones kept getting stolen.

Think for a while (and this was a while (in the cube draft his first turn Thoughtsieze took 6.5 mins to resolve, I timed it. I'd hate to be on the receiving end of one of his Brainstorms!)) before finally going for:

Tap two for Priest of T, Summoner's Pact. He found Fyndhorn Elves and played it with the final Forest only for Willy to show him the WoG in hand. Ow.

Well done anyway. nice to see you in the flesh. Sorry I didn't get the time to stay and chat while you weren't busy.

[Neonico]

I fail to see how you would have made a different result with just -4 wraith + 3 opt + 1 something... Could you please explain how this change would have totally reverse those matchups please ?
What game situations did you face that an opt intead of a Wraith would have change ?

[Titanium Dragon]

I think my performance in the Cube should answer that question.  I was drafting next to Kenji Tsumara and I beat Tiago Chan AND Rich Hoaen, who both made the finals.

Er, no, it really doesn't answer that question at all. You obviously were the man in the cube draft; you drafted what looked like a constructed deck, whereas the other decks looked like limited decks (albiet with powerful cards). You obviously outdrafted everyone else in that format and crushed them all, and Hoaen and Chan's decks simply weren't going to beat sui black.

My auction deck was a complete disaster and my Vintage deck was too metagamed.

I don't think it is really fair to say you'd have done better in the auction could you redo it, as I think most people in the auction had complete disasters of decks. Less than half of the people got reasonable deals on their decks, let alone good ones, and people really did not call deck power correctly; transformers and cultural exchange were much stronger than several of the decks which were actually bid on, even though they both look like piles (though at least Transformers has 8 sweeper spells and a bunch of other removal or semi-removal...).

[Mith]

I'd love to read Steve's perspective on dropping Tog from GAT...how was the Imp Seal as a replacement?

[Smmenen]

I think my performance in the Cube should answer that question.  I was drafting next to Kenji Tsumara and I beat Tiago Chan AND Rich Hoaen, who both made the finals.

Er, no, it really doesn't answer that question at all.

Your question was about skill and ability to compete with the Pros.   

My auction deck was a complete disaster and my Vintage deck was too metagamed.

I don't think it is really fair to say you'd have done better in the auction could you redo it, as I think most people in the auction had complete disasters of decks.

It wasn't about the deck choice that I selected but about how much I bid.  That's what killed me.  I would never bid a deck to 5 cards.  Look at the record of the five card decks compared to the records of the 8 card decks.