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Author Topic: Jaws III - The other side of Shop Control  (Read 1664 times)
Harlequin
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« on: November 19, 2007, 03:14:03 pm »

Jaws III - The other side of Shop Control

Quick history: I am known for playing two decks, Oath and "Crazy Shop Decks."  I have made many attempts over serveral years to break out this Red build.  Here is a short history of the deck...

Jaws
Metagame: CS is king, Stax, TPS, are at the for front and Mean Deck Oath  has just finished it's big splash, and is on a down turn - but its still fairly popular.
- Phyrexian Soul Gorger is printed in coldsnap.
- The deck was basically Eon Hub + cards that are totally amazing with Hub.  It ran Maindeck Soulgorgers, Razormanes, and Dupes.  Fill in the cracks with Red Welders, gambles, pyrostatics, and bloodmoons in the board.  Solemns are alos in the deck.
The name of the deck came from the idea that the play style was that of "Fish" but with REALLY big fish.  Hense the need for a 'bigger boat', and the Jaws name.

Jaws II
Metagame: Gifts is king, CS, Stax and fish are trying to keep in step.
Realizations from Jaws:  Static Effects are amazing!  And I don't need Eon Hub + crapy creatures to win.
So the huge dudez get shelved and I go with a more fish oriented deck.  Solemns, Viashinos, Juggernaughts.  Null Rods and Orb of dreams join Bloodmoon and pyrostatics as the disruption sweet.  Later Magus of the Moon is printed and it too joins the ranks and makes "7moon Jaws." taking the place of Juggs.   Still a very similar deck to Jaws II.

The Jaw's Theory:

I propose that there are really two approaches to accomplishing "Shop" Control.  The first is tried and true: Perminant Denial.  Under this catagory ... you're goals are A) Strangle out Lands, B) Stop Moxen C) Kill your opponent's  ability to "win from thier hand" to accomplish Goal-A you have Waste/Cruicble, Smoke Stax, Tangle Wire. For Goal-B you have Mox Monkey and Karn, or even Null Rod, and For Goal-C you have Spheres, chalice, orb, and Uba Mask.

The Jaw's Plan is a little differant.  Jaw's doesn't care about quantity - its all about the quality.  This concept hinges on Blood Moon effects.  The idea is that you can advance you're board at a faster pace than your opponent if they are restricted to 1 or 2 spells a turn because of color restriction.  The goals are totally differant. 
Goal-A restrict the number of basic islands and on-color moxen.
Goal-B hit non-basics with Moon.
Goal-C Dominate the Board with red mana and win the game quickly (as compared to the stax plan).

Goal A in the early game is accomplished through Orb of Dreams.  My making Fetch lands less appealing and less functional - you're already well along the road to Goal-A.  Heratic is enough to stop those on-color moxen.  Mox Monkey is good as well, but I would say that he is less valuable because he is not as good a viashino in the Shop Mirror, or the Fish match up.  In the late game Titan (+welder) can do a good job mopping up those basics as well as accomplishing Goal-C of a speedy win.

Goal-B, the Moon Plan.  In order for moons to actually be a plan, you have to go beyond the 4 Magi.  At least two of the Enchantments are nessisary to make this an actual "Plan."

Goal-C, The nice thing about the Jaws plan is that it's more compact.  Stax must devote the majorty of the deck to lock in order to keep hold of the reigns.  Jaws has more freedom to run big beaters and board-breaking equipment.  I would also like to note, that against control you may beable to win on Goal-C along if they are on a slow hand.  Resolving a threat or two can end the game rather quickly.  This is generally not true for traditional stax because thier threats are few and far between.

With those Goals in Mind... Here is Jaws III

7 Mountians
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Simian Spirit Guides
4 Shops
5 Mox
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus
1 Mana Crypt

4 Goblin Welder
3 Viashino Heratic
3 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Duplicant / or / Triskellion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Thousand-Year Elixer

4 Orb of Dreams
4 Magus of the Moon
2 Blood Moon
1 Trinisphere

4 Gamble
2 Bazaar of Bagdad
1 Memory Jar

Some Breakdowns:
15 Lands (w Bazaar) / 4 SSG / 7 zero-CC / 9 one-CC / 0 two-CC / 18 three-CC / 7 high-CC
10 colorless plus 15 Red Sources (w SSG) / 17 red cards (wo SSG)
21 Creatures (w SSG) / 3 Equipment

Thousand-Year Elixer (1kE) {3}
Artifact
You may play the activated abilities of creatures you control as though those creatures had haste. 
{1} {T} : Untap Target Creature.

I am really REALLY enjoying 1kE for this deck.  It has several amazing Uses.  Right off the bat, obviously Welder and Heratic can be used the turn they enter play.  Huge Advantage.  Not only that, but it gives me a double weld or a double blast.  It has huge synergy with Orb as well, because it lets me get blockers in play untapped, or lets me make good on my ability haste when I have an Orb down.  Lastly, it gives my Solemns Vigilance of sorts.  The drawback of Solemn is that he can't beat and block in the same turn.  Basically I always want to block with Solemn even if I end up in a trade... but at the same time, I don't want Solemn to sit there untapped, while my opponent builds up - choosing not to attack.  This way I can get my two damage in AND have a blocker.   Lastly I'ts an artifact, and I often find myself using it to give a welder haste ... who promply welds the 1kE out for something more useful.

Duplicant and Triskellion.  I think Dupe x2 is stronger than any number of Trikes.  Dupe gets the job done no matter what you're facing.  Trike can provide multiple removals and/or a faster kill... but This can't really match Dupe's unconditionally strong removal.  That being said, I'll leave this up to a Meta call, in a diverse meta with some GAT, Oath, and Salvagers thrown into the mix Dupe is a safer choice in my oppinon.

Gamble.  Gamble was in the first itterations of this deck, The ideal situation was to have a welder down and use Gamble as a Red Entomb on an empty hand.  In original Jaws My curve was too high to make Gamble any good.  So I shelved the card, and never gave it any credit.  After playing the deck for many many tournements my "problem" shifted.  The new problem was maintaining pressure.  The big stall of the deck was that It couldn't rely on 7 turns of 2-3 damage to win the game.  My opponent while slowed, was not stopped and thus could stablize durring the 7 turns of slow progress.  I would often burn my hand (thanks to the printing of SSG) in the first few turns and slowly loose.  Gamble has proven to be the remedy to this.  Gambling for Dupe or Titan is an obvious play when the time is right.  But even without that, I will often gamble for SoFI or Simulacrum when I have 2-3 cards in hand and decent mana on the board.  Even without welder, the extra creature or equipment can ensure that I have a solid stance for the next few turns.  And when the welder arives its all the better.

Two Bazaar are solid for turn 1 plays as well.  Bazaar is not ment to be tapped (as a bazaar) for more than 2 turns.  By then, you really hope to have a moon down.  I have had a game when I went Bazaar tap, Discard: Dupe, SoFI, Simulacrum; Mox, SSG-> Welder; Go.   Needless to say, it was a strong play I think next turn I welded in the Sim, and played Shop Orb, and eventually gambled for titan.

Sideboard: There is SO much you can choose from for the board.  Here is a list in no particular Order...
Lava Dart
Shattering Spree
Rack and Ruin
Dead and Gone
Null Rod
Tormod's Crypt
Leyline of the Void
Chalice of the Void
Sulfur Elemental
Powder Keg
Triskellion
Razormane Masticore
FURNACE DRAGON (not even joking)
Jester's Cap
Pyrostatic Pillars
Pithing Needle
Jitte
Greater Gargadon
extra Dupes
extra SoFI
extra Moons
extra Titans
extra Bazaars

Basically, take a guess at your meta and put 3-5 cards in for each trouble deck.  I think my personal choice for my NE meta would be:
3 Darts
3 Spree
4 Pyrostatics
4 Leylines (or 3 Tormods + 1 extra dupe)
1 Bazaar.... maybe Furnace Dragon just for funzies

Limitations as compaired to Staxless Stax, Traditional Stax, or Shop Agro.

- Countermagic instability.  Against an opponent who has two counterspells online by turn 2 you are really fighting an uphill battle.  You can't rely on Welder because lots of your threats are non-artifact.  This is the double edge of the "I don't really care about Eflux" arguement below.  If your opponent is rockin' 3 counters by turn 3 you are basically dead in the water.  In a meta with heavy control, a deck like Staxless Stax seems to shrug off countermagic well and is likely a better deck choice.
>> The reply to this, is that the meta seems to be moving away from countermagic. For example look at ELD's list, it had 4 Misdirrections and 0 Drains.  If this trend takes hold in the meta, then this point may be a good reason to run Jaws.  Also Duress growing in popularity with Thoughtseize comming in at the 2-of level - this is a good trend for this deck as well.  As an example, Shea's Dragon list running 0 Forces, 4 Duress, and 2 Thoughtseize... another promising trend should it catch.
- Finding Answers Now.  In testing, I've found that I loose to very early Dryads or Goyf.  Even with a Welder in play, without a Bazaar or Gamble (+ empty hand) its going to be very very slow getting to an answer.  This is somewhat true for all non-aggro shop decks... although stax can get away with an early smokestack + wasteland that may swoop in and save the day.
- A trade off between having a poor combo match for a favorable Shop Match.  Without Spheres, Chalice, or Monkies - the pre-board combo match is pretty dismal.  However, you are running Heratics, SoFI the Elixir and Magus.  With this toolkit main deck your shop match should be favorable.  In a meta of combo decks, a sphere based Uba deck would probably be the best Shop choice.

Advantages of Jaws over other Shop Decks.
- Less Hateable.  With so many red creatures and enchantments, there is little fear of Flux, Hurkyls, Rebuild, or even a nasty shattering spree.  Also no reliance on crucible, so GY hate is less effective.
- Faster win conditions.  The deck has a few genes passed down from Shop Agro, so sometimes that Simian wielding a SoFI will "Get there" all alone.  This can alos help you stablize against most early creatures (with Dryad, Tog, and Goyf being the exceptions).
- Static vrs Triggered Lock.  Orb and Moon provide no window for your opponent to play around.  Tanglewire and Smokestacks can hit a down turn durring your opponent's upkeep if they have the instants to pooch you.  Static Lock cards do not have this downside.
- "X" factor.  As with any deck that is out of standard, you always have a shock value in your advantage because your opponent is not going to have a "sideboard Plan" against you.  They are forced to think on thier feet and may not have even seen your entire deck.  Maybe they board in Null Rod, or something silly.   They may not have access to the Shattering Sprees, Rack and Ruins, and Etruths that hurt you most.  This alone will not win you your top-8 matches, but it may help you get through the early rounds of swiss.

I guess my point here is that with the field prepairing for Sphere ... why would you run sphere?  Engineered explosives and Powder Keg are another example of cards that are on the rise.  With 4 welders being the only realavent permenants you run under 3cc - you are in good shape to battle EE, Keg, and Spell Snare which are starting to creep into maindecks.
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madmanmike25
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2007, 04:37:11 pm »

Quick history: I am known for playing two decks, Oath and "Crazy Shop Decks."

That's why I typically like your ideas.  I guess I'm fond of crazy things that can work.  Bless your heart for putting 4 Gambles in a deck.  I seriously hope you can get it to work.  I never was able to, and trust me I tried some crazy combinations.

I have to get this out of my system:  What?!!? No Greater Gargadon??  Ok, done.  I just thought that they would be an auto-include for you with 4 Welders and 3 Sims.

I know that Dupe is a more powerful effect(against creatures).  But so far I am liking that Trike is more proactive, meaning that I can just hardcast him when I want- instead of waiting for a creature like with Dupe.  You are probably right, just depends on the meta.  You see lots of Goyfs, then Dupe is your man.  I do like the fact that you can attack and ping with Trike against creatureless decks though.  Dupe is a 2/4 for 6 mana in those matchups, and I DO expect to see more combo with all these creature decks about.

I like the singleton 1KElixir.  It can't hurt.

Did Karn not make the cut this time?  Why did you omit him since you run 4 Gambles and he is weldable?  Just curious.

I think Gamble might be better as a 2-of, but let me know if 4 works for you.  I used Gamble in decks to get Stripmine when I had Crucible in play, but you don't run that.  Gamble is either a janky tutor, or 100% Welder reliant.  I always ended up cutting at least one of them from my decks.


Quote
I guess my point here is that with the field prepairing for Sphere ... why would you run sphere? 

Then I suggest you try Thorn.  You have a good creature count for it.  A turn 1 Thorn is a pretty good play imo.  They can prepare for it all they want and it can still disrupt them.

Overall I think this deck is promising, I just don't have the time right now to go into too much more detail.  Keep it up.

Mike
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meadbert
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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2007, 03:09:06 pm »

Glacial Chasm is amazing with Eon Hub.

I used to run Eon Hub in the board of Turboland over two years ago because it wrecked Stax and Oath, but it also helps a Glacial Chasm sit in play forever.

Note that you cannot attack with creatures as you do this so you will need an alternate way to win.
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2007, 02:02:24 pm »

Since you play 20+ creatures, couldn't you replace the Gambles by Survival of the Fittest and Thousand-year Elixir by Anger?
Obviously, you would have to accomodate your mana base, which I am not sure goes well with 4 Magus of the Moon main.
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2007, 12:29:36 pm »

That would basically be TNT.  It might even be viable today.
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