[Deck] The Tropical Storm (TTS)

[XxtSundaybxX]

do you guys think there is a better way to approach leyline? I mean playing Research seems okay I suppose but that also requires you to find a another colored source just to combo out. I think there are better ways to combat leyline. Ive been playing chain of vapor over echoing truth simply because it enables storm to comb out without Will. It just require you to think a little more because you can't just tutor up your Will, but with merchant scroll you just tutor up your chain and bonce and replay artifacts. I would say a little less than 50% of my games are won without Will and my GY. Chaining gushes together is another really good way to win easily wihout will, which is another reason I'm playing Tendrils #2. I'm also playing echoing truth on sb for leylines g2 and warrens tokens and ichorid tokens.

[hauntedechos]

With the offering of Gushin' D-Day, TTS needs to evaluate where it stands in terms of what it brings to the table in a fashion that Gushin' D-Day does not.  Are there strengths/weakness' that we need to understand/seriously address?  We've been working towards reducing the draw seven aspect, thusly stream lining the deck and keeping the whiffle/oops my opponent now has a couple counters in his/her hand effect out.

Gushin' D-Day is an attempt to stream line TTS to the point that your choice is A) Fastbond - Gush kill or B)Doomsday kill, with the added ability to switch gears pretty quickly.  Certainly this is a solid movement in a good direction and Flash has shown us how a linear deck can make it happen.  Something I cannot get past yet is how Gushin' is GAT in combo form, I fear for standard GAT hate, even though I realize how much faster Gushin' is compared to the venerable GAT deck.  Another thing that I like about TTS over Gushin, is that w/o the four scrolls, there is more room for adaptation, again, understand that I am not the creator of Gushin and the room in the deck may be very plainly laid out for him.  As a closing remark, I also worry about how a linear deck can be solved because of that fact, it's linear in nature.

In contrast, TTS is much more Yawg's Will dependent because we don't have the four scrolls, yet with 1-2 scrolls we can accomplish much the same goal (how many scrolls are you really going to use to win the game?), while keeping other maindeck cards as options.  TTS also plays nice with Necropotence, because we don't have any/many scrolls in the deck.  I think that the question for Necro is the trade in life to provide card advantage vs. the trade in life from Fast bond to gain card advantage with a number of cards.  Necro requires a dark ritual to be efficient, fueled by life, followed by the passing of the turn (perhaps the biggest strike against it) while the Gush/bond engine is float mana, Gush, scroll for Gush, play lands float mana, Gush etc, etc.  Both have thier requisites and in the end it's a matter of what feels better for you. 

Let's compare Fastbond to Necro, keeping in mind that TTS has both:

Fastbond:
needs only G
Provides additional land drops as soon as it hits
needs scroll into Gush, or Gush to start to provide ca.
you need to tutor for it, luck sac the topdeck, draw into it, or open with it.
requires you to lose at least some life from additional lands played/turn.
Off colour to an otherwise U/B deck, thus requiring at least a single Tropical Island.

Necro"
requries you to tutor for it, luck sac the topdeck, draw into it, or open with it.
Needs BBB, or, Dark ritual
provides card advantage as soon as it drops at a cost of life
requires you to pass the turn.


My thoughts on this matter are very focused around cutting Necro to go all in with the Gush/Bond engine.  Personally, I don't feel comfortable with it.  The other issue I have is the reduction in threat density, there are times when simply throwing out a threat to bait a counter (while keeping your own), only to drop what the real threat is, can be really solid plays.  The use of Extirpates is yet another card to be wary of, with two D-Days, you run a risk (no matter how slight it may seem), of being nailed with it and thusly out of options and shuffling up for the next game.

I mentioned R/D for TTS and the consensus seemed to be that it didn't fit in TTS, yet somehow people seem to think it makes it in Gushing D-Day, I really don't get this.  If it works in one deck that is a streamlined version of TTS, then clearly it works for us as well.  When you start to look at the decks, there is one thing that stands out, TTS has more room to offer threat density, while still being able to provide the same amount of card advantage, if not more so at a quicker rate.  Gushing proposes that Twister is cut, yet with Twister and my proposed R/D we can access an infinate loop (however narrow that application may be, we can still do it), as well as offering another enabler, as well as offering an explosive trait to TTs.

I will leave things at this for discussion:  let's look at Gushin' vs. TTS and see where the strengths and weakness' are, I am 100% positive that we will arrive at a hybrid of the two decks, which is what I know we were heading towards anyways.

As an added bonus, please refer to the Gushin thread for a compilation list of D-Day piles, which is something that I am working on completeing for both TTS and Gushin'.

Haunted.

[nineisnoone]

What hate are you referring to?

GAT's big strength was that it had a lot of options. Gushin' seems pretty much the same way, but in the combo form so those changes are apparent. GAT can be clogged on the ground by aggro. Gushin' can't play the fish-style tempo game. Other than Spheres, I don't see any particular hate that needs to be addressed.

On the Necro vs. Fastbond debate:
Also realize that passing the turn makes it less and less relevant as the game goes on.  Alternatively an early Fastbond is still a big threat, but dropping it is an immediate threat since you can go off as soon as you get it. It's pretty crazy when "Necro on 2" is an okay play and "Necro on 3" is bad, but that's the way it is. However, I don't think a Necro would make it over a 3rd Dday. You lose a lot of life and need to pass the turn in either case (sometimes), so why not go for the "guaranteed" win?

On Extirpate: I would worry about it, but not because of getting a DDay countered + Extirpated. You can still win on Gush-Bond-YawgWill-Tendrils and Research is tutorable for a reshuffle otherwise. I would worry about it because Post Dday most stacks rely on using the yard, so a timely extirpate can screw up the combo.

Research: As a 1 of for another 1 (Dday in TTS) of seems a bit much. I mean, re-shuffling post Cap is good, but I'm not sure if it's that good. A more DDay dependent deck wants it because it enable better kills, the less you lean on DDay the less immediate value it has.

Twister: I like it, but I think the "Necro v Fastbond" isn't where the argument is at.  It's Necro v. Doomsday, and Fastbond v. Draw 7's. Necro v. Doomsday.  With good Dday stacks out there, I think Necro is outdone by Dday. Why wait to win? Fastbond and Draw 7's is where I feel like there is the argument. Both require a bit of luck and a chance to fizzle. Fastbond has the disadvantage of being heavier on the life loss and being controllable.  Draw 7's don't have the life loss, but give the opponent new cards.  You also have to manage the deck's threat density to run the well. That being said Twister is more of a threat in isolation than a Merchant Scroll or any single component of a Fastbond engine. Twister does allow Brainstorm with 1 card in hand DDay piles. So that's definitely looking to see what other specific piles it enables.

[XxtSundaybxX]

what are the differences in the two lists?

2x merchant scroll
2x doomsday
1x research and development
1x tendrils

If you really think about it the only differences are 1x research and 1x doomsday if your playing a doomsday in your tts list. As haunted mentioned above your not going to use 4 scrolls to end the game. Also if you really fear extirpate wouldnt tts be the better deck seeing as you have 1 copy of x amount of bombs. I feel that tts is a more stable deck because your not relying on doomsday. And yes your going to say that tts relys on yawg will, but I strongly disagree. I have been playing tts for a while now and my list does not rely on will at all, running chain of vapor as an alternate storm enabler. I also run 2x scroll which allows you to tutor for mystical or ancestral. I want to test the gushin dday list but I have gotten a chance yet

[hauntedechos]

@ Sunday:  Thank-you for your post.  While once I disliked the inclusion of more than one Scroll, I can see two being an enabler of the Gush/Bond engine which can enable the combo while ignoring leyline of the void, that is something I value.  On the other hand, even w/o scrolls, one could d-day and make a pile that ignores leyline, in which case, even the two scrolls are unwarranted.

Haunted.

[XxtSundaybxX]

your absolutely right, scroll can go unused in many games but those games where you don't need to waste your imp seal or your camp to fetch your recall makes scroll that much more effcient. Majority of the time 1 merchant scroll is all you need cuz if need be you can scroll for mystical after yawgwill.  Scroll also fetches your chain of vapor which is your storm enabler to avoid leyline of he the void. Scroll is a persona peference either you like it or you don't. I hated it at first but now I love it. Doomsday is fine in the deck however against leyline decks you either want to board it out or use scroll to dig for bounce...you would want to board in echoing truth if your really scared of leyline and dont feel confident in comboing out without yawgwill.

[Negator13]

your absolutely right, scroll can go unused in many games but those games where you don't need to waste your imp seal or your camp to fetch your recall makes scroll that much more effcient. Majority of the time 1 merchant scroll is all you need cuz if need be you can scroll for mystical after yawgwill.  Scroll also fetches your chain of vapor which is your storm enabler to avoid leyline of he the void. Scroll is a persona peference either you like it or you don't. I hated it at first but now I love it. Doomsday is fine in the deck however against leyline decks you either want to board it out or use scroll to dig for bounce...you would want to board in echoing truth if your really scared of leyline and dont feel confident in comboing out without yawgwill.

Half the point of Doomsday is that it wins through Leyline. All you need is a Gush or Scroll with it and you win the game.

[XxtSundaybxX]

it wins through leyline if your playing research...I dont agree that research fits in tts. The list is too tight to fit it in. There are aternate paths to victory. Playing doomsday as your primary bomb is too narrow...and even though its not necessary to pass the turn, I dont agree with passidng the turn in the current metagame.

[Negator13]

But you can still sideboard R/D against Leyline and have an answer to it just by virtue of having a certain card in your deck, rather than having to search up and play a bounce spell first.

[XxtSundaybxX]

I'm not trying to bad mouth doomsday, its a great card. I even agree with running it as a singleton in tts and its an oops I win card when yu draw it. And maybe sideboarding research is the right move, maybe not I dont know yet. I'm just trying to discuss the similarities and differences between the 2 lists. And I'm just saying that I dont think research is needed but if you have the room for it then sure, and depending on your meta, seeing as research gets around extirpate. The biggest problem with research is drawing it when your not comboing with dday. Its a dead draw. Its like tendrils number 3

[hauntedechos]

@Sunday:  To start, I wasn't sure if it was needed/any good in the deck.  The only real proof of it's decent abilities was to dodge or nullify grave yard hate.  As I've went through the D-Day deck primers and game plays, looking for D-Day piles, so many of them included Research and that got me thinking.  On it's own merits, the card really only gets you sideboard hate for game one, not that that fact is something to overlook.  The inclusion of this card also allows for a greater range of D-Day piles, IMO, that allows you to cover a larger range of situations that you may encounter.  Is that range overkill?  I don't know for sure, but going infinite with Twister can be at worst, amusing.  Games two and three, we see the cards value sky rocket as we are able to remain bullet proof to extirpates, leylines, planar void and tormod's crypt.  Since I've been constantly trying to build TTS up to reduce it's dependence on Yawg's Will, this was the next best thing, protection of Yawgs zone.

I agree that one could simply house it in the SB, however my deck has open slots that leave me scratching my head as to what to put into the deck, while still being relevant.  The room I have is largely because I have taken Tinker Jar out and I also removed the splash  , for greater focus on  cards.  I tend to look at TSOath to look for card interactions when they combo out, or find them to undo what has been done to them (ie Krosan Reclamation, and Research/development).  As a last fact, I run only a single Tendrils.

The core of the deck looks like this:

Haunted Island Storm (H.I.S lol, not yours)
      or..
A scrubby version of TTS.

Kill:
1 Tendrils

Acceleration:
4 Dark ritual
1black lotus
1mox jet
1mox sapphire
1lotus petal

Draw:
4Brainstorm
4Ponder
4Gush
1Ancestral Recall
4Tutors

Protection:
4force of will
4Duress
1Hurkyls recall
1Echoing Truth/CoV
1Thoughtseize


bombs:
1Necro
1yawgswill
1Twister
1Fastbond
1Doomsday

lands:
3Sea
2Tropical
2Islands
3Flooded
3Polluted


So as you can see there is a large portion of room in my build to tailor it to my tastes.  Some have started to use Merchant Scrolls, which led them into NLD for the full blown Gushbond engine.  Even in that deck, however, there is Research/development.  I'm not saying it does or does not belong, simply that I have the room for it, and I enjoy what it brings to the table for me.  if you are housing Tinker/Jar, warrens, ruby etc.  Then certainly I can see where the romm might be difficult to find.

Just my 2cents.

Haunted. 

[Mdizzle4life85]

This is my current list, take a look! lemme know what you guys think constructive criticism is always welcome i think this deck has a ton of potential in the current meta!


Land:
4 delta
2 strand
2 island
3 sea
1 trop
1 volcanic

Spells!:
1 ancestral
1 yawg will
1 fastbond
1 vamp tutor
1 imperial seal
1 mystical tutor
4 gush
4 brainstorm
4 dark ritual
3 ponder
4 force of will
4 duress
1 thoughtseize
1 timewalk
1 chain of vapor
1 echoing truth
1 doomsday
1 demonic tutor
1 time twister
1 necropotence

Artifacts:
1 emerald
1 pearl
1 saphire
1 jet
1 ruby
1 mana crypt
1 black lotus
1 lotus petal

Kill
1 tendrils
1 ETW


the sideboard is still in the works and would love to hear about different sideboard builds! So lemme know guys this thread is evergrowing and is one of the best tendrils threads around keep it going guys and good work!

[XxtSundaybxX]

@dizzle:

your list looks pretty solid however i havent tested a list with full artifact acceleration. It just seems like it would be overkill, how has it worked out for you? I currently play Sapphire,Jet,Emerald, Ruby with no mana vault and no Pearl.

[Mdizzle4life85]

I like the full artifact excell because there are times where you want to bluff and run out a mox with a land. however then you wish you have the mox for storm... this way it lets you do both, between bluffing a flash with the reveillark kill or anything else, and also giving yourself free storm. so far the full artifact exceleration has not hurt me for the most part after all thats what brainstorm and ponder are for. also with the crypt if you having trouble finding anything you can sometimes hardcast gush which has proven effective for me. i would like to see your list maybe we could compare and contrast what you have chosen over the full artifact package. thanks for your input i feel this deck is very strong in the current meta and this thread is a great way of giving us tendrils/long/tts players a fighting chance in this crazy vintage meta. keep the great idea comming guys!!!

[hauntedechos]

Just to toss my two cents out, as I am in a hurry today.  I run a similar list, but with only the lone tendrils and emerald, sapphire, jet, petal, lotus as the artifact accelerators.  This has given me room for 2 scrolls, which have been very usefull both for enabling scroll, gush, X to dig deep and also to grab Forces when I need them for comboing off with protection.  In addition I run the full Ponder suite so that when I Doomsday, I always have either Brainstorm, Gush or Ponder in hand, removing the need to hunt for it.  Because I also run R/D, I run a second Tropical in the Volcanic slot, this has also been a very reliable card for me, fetching hate in game one and also keeping me safe from md extirpates/leylines and also bolstering against said cards games 2 and 3.

Haunted.

As another quick Post I wanted to stress that the inclusion of Necropotence is a serious way of beating NLD.  Both TTS and NLD have very quick ways of ending the game when abusing Dday.  I included R/D as a development of TTS before NLD was released, NLD uses the card as well. All things being equal, Necropotence is our ace against them.  The card is stupid, and I still cannot believe that NLD even thinks about NOT including it.  The card is blatant card advantage and can win in the face of a deck that is basically the same damn deck minus a few cards in favour of a streamlined feel (which I believe is also a downfall of the deck).

Haunted.

Posts merged. Please try to use the 'modify post' feature instead of double posting.
-- TAL

[Negator13]

I must admit I have since thought better of myself and am running Necropotence in NLD with absolutely no intentions of cutting it. It may not be at its absolute best there like it is in Grim Long or something, but like you said it's still simply better than almost any other card in the deck. So you guys don't have that ace anymore

[hauntedechos]

@Negator:  then all things being equal, are the two decks pretty much the same thing then, with altering numbers of scrolls and Doomsdays?

In concers with looking at all the streamlined Storm decks.  SHouldnt they just be considered newschool Storm with either, Gush builds or non ( in the case of superlong) Gush builds? I mean really we are just working around ther premise and how far you want to go on leaning on Gush Bond vs. no.  Ans with the addition of Doomsday, Building on Super Long isnt even a bad Idea.

Haunted.

[CalebD]

Land 13
1 Tropical
1 Volcanic
3 Underground
2 Island
6 Fetches

Accel 11
1 Jet
1 Emerald
1 Ruby
1 Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault (W/ Tinker, Hurkyls, and Chain this has been better for me than sol ring)
1 Lotus Petal (This has been amazing)
1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual
1 Fastbond

Control 12
4 FoW
4 Duress
1 Hurkyl's
1 Chain of Vapor

Kill 2
1 Tendrils
1 Empty

Draw/Fixers 12
1 Walk
4 BS
3 Ponder
4 Gush

Bombs/Tutors 10
1 Mystical
1 Demonic
1 Vamp
1 Iseal
1 Personal
1 Will
1 Twister
1 Tinker
1 Jar
1 Ancestral

Sideboard 15

4 Leyline
1 Echoing truth
4 Ingot Chewer (haven’t tested against stax yet, might change this)
1 Jester's Cap
2 Pithing Needle
3 Dark Confidant

I’ve streamlined the deck to fit my play style more, focusing on either the artifact-bounce kill, the yawg win kill, or the fastbond-gush/draw 7 kill. I’ve found these kills to be highly synergistic with one another and resilient to hate strategies, while other “I win” cards can hinder them. Namely Necropotence, which has no chance at winning turn one, and sometimes doesn’t even win on turn 2. It conflicts with Fastbond and the 2 pain tutors, and looks really bad in the face of beats or burn decks. Not only that, but it’s terrible to see after turn one, and while you can tutor it up turn one, that costs at least five mana to set up for a win next turn. With five mana and a tutor why not try and win that turn?

Don’t get me wrong, I do like the card, I just think it hinders the deck overall. I am thinking about leaving necro in the board, as it does rock against a lot of slower decks.

I tested a lot of games and had a few terrible scenarios where I went off with the gush combo, drawing through some 30 cards, but ran out of gas. I really felt the deck needed another bomb or setup card. I originally ran wheel of fortune, but the tutor is just so much better. It sets up a lot of kills just as well as the other tutors, like tutor will, BS, tutor tendrils, replay BS. And it grabs both draw 7’s, possibly making it better than either could be individually.

I have been considering Burning Wish instead of the ETW slot, and putting the ETW in the sideboard alongside Desire and some artifact hate. Thoughts?

I found 4 Ponders to be too many with 4 BS, 4 Gush, and the walk to get the tutored card off the top, and as it’s worse than BS or gush 3 is the right number.

I think 13Bus’s High Tide/Gifts build looks really interesting, if a bit too dependent on fastbond.

The D-Day kill also looks interesting and consistent post-duress, but pre-duress I guess I’d have “the fear” –losing with no backup plan to force, reb, or even ancestral gives me the chills. Unlike Necro though, there are a variety of scenarios where I wouldn’t mind drawing into it mid-combo, so I will test with it.

[CalebD]

Not trying to be a thread user of ill repute, but I had a chance to test out the shop aggro matchup in a M-league mini, I only played against it and then one painter deck in the finals. The Ingot Chewers were a great replacement for duress on the draw. On the play I went -1 ETW, -1 Tinker, -1 jar, -1 ponder. I think that was right.

I've moved up to 4 confidant in the board, and have been very happy with them.

I won one game through brainstorm/sack jar in response. The hand couldn't win (you'd think w/ ten cards...) but I could set a tutor and a recall on top to win turn two.

I've been less and less thrilled with ETW. So far, every time I've been forced to go for the ETW win they've met EE or E-Truth. First I'm going to test Doomsday in its slot, and if I don't like that I'll test Burning Wish.

[hauntedechos]

@CalebD:  I'm glad that you brought the feelings on ETW up.  I've been a huge supporter of E.Truth over COV main for exactly that reason: Tokens and the need for mass bounce in general.  Sure it's good to be as fast as possible, yet I think that flexibility is needed in a deck as streamlined as this.  I have not run  in my list for some time now, citing the fact that ETW is not needed and moreover a single Tendrils is sufficient.  I run Ruby, Volc, ETW in the side in the occasions where I want/need it, yet even there it is looking less and less appealing.

For reference, here is my current list (keeping in mind I am not an innovator and certainly not any recognized authority/contributor to this deck)

Haunted Storm v.8

3 sea
2 Tropical
2 Island
4 Polluted
3 Flooded

black lotus
mox jet
mox sapphire
mox emerald
lotus petal
4 Dark ritual

Tendrils

4 Brainstorm
4 Gush
4 Ponder
4 Tutors
1 Ancestral
2 Scrolls

4 Force
4 Duress
1 Seize
1 Echoing truth
1 Hurkyl's

Fast bond
Necropotence
Doomsday
Yawgs Will
Research/D
Time Twister

my Sb includes 4 Leyline and 1 Research.  The rest is not a topic for discussion as SB's are meta specific yada yada yada.  Why research in the side?  D-day piles for one and the ability to use research during the game so I can include the side Research as one of the 4 put back in so that the D-day piles that include Research are undisturbed.  Again I am a fan of flexibility.

One could move the list I have around to include 2 d-day if you want to lean on that.  One could include a second Tendrils, yet I haven't felt it enhancing to the deck based on my play style.

Haunted.

[XxtSundaybxX]

Its been quite a while since i have posted, as i havent really played alot lately...Tuning cars > Playing magic. However i did get a chance to test a little the other night. The new painter lists can be quite an annoyance against this deck...even though i think i came out even against it. But i do agree with running a copy of empty the warrens because a single blast can sometimes ruin our plan to victory and with empty it still gives us a win condition without fizzleing after a key blast. I have not tested Doomsday lately it just seems risky with so many blasts running around...

[Metman]

I have as of recently picked up this deck to test with and against.   I've found it to be incredibly resilient and can play the control role, if forced to, with remarkable success. 

There are a three cards I wanted to touch on that have been up for some debate in this thread.  The first is Empty the Warrens.  I started with it in the deck and liked it.  I pulled it out and frequently found myself between a rock and a hard place tyring to protect my loan Tendrils.  I also like how Warrens can just steal a win from aggro and stax decks by just dumping an easy eight tokens.  In GAT/Hulk Fishy and Stax matches it was a super Time Walk.  The second card is Mind's Desire.  I really can't believe that people aren't auto including this card.  It fixes problems and ends games.  It's essentially another win condition.  It has helped me come back from games that I shouldn't have won.  I've done a ton of testing against Tyrant Oath and have found myself in a situation in which Oath was just played and I have to assume I have one turn to live.  The game has gone a couple turns; Duresses and Forces have been played and the hands are down to only a few cards.  If I'm able to play a Dark Ritual, drop a mox, cast a Brainstorm and resolve the Mind's Desire it was often enough to not only refill my hand but neutralize the situation.  The third card is Doomsday.  I want to compare this card to poker.  It's the cards that allows you to go all in.  I can't tell you how many times I've screwed up playing this card in TTS.  Playing Doomsday locks you into a do or die situation and frankly it's a house of cards you've just built.  I really don't think this deck is cut out to utilize it without playing Research // Development.  If you were going that route you might as well play NLD.  Don't get me wrong it's won me games but I'm sure there are other cards out there that would win me games without going out on a limb.

For those of you that don't play Doomsday what are some cards that you have chosen to replace a bomb like that with?  I've considered Infernal Contract and Timetwister/Wheel of Fortune.  I've also considered the more consistant route by going with another Duress effect, another Misdirection, or an additional Merchant Scroll. 

Since I'm mentioning Mind's Desire and Doomsday I wanted to ask a rules question.  This may be better suited in the "Rules Forum" but I'll toss it out here. 
Mind's Desire --- Shuffle your library. Then remove the top card of your library from the game. Until end of turn, you may play that card without paying its mana cost. (If it has X in its mana cost, X is 0.)
Storm (When you play this spell, copy it for each spell played before it this turn.)

My question is this: what exactly does "may" in the wording refer to?  If I reveal a Gush with Mind's Desire "may" I play it until end of turn and do I get to choose if I play it's mana cost or not?  In other words, may I play the alternative casting cost of Gush when it's revealed and removed with Mind's Desire or am I pigeon holed into playing it without paying its mana/alternative casting costs? 

The second question I have is spawned from the complexity of Doomsday piles.  Am I allowed to bring a cheat sheet of sorts to a tournament?  It would contain situations and stacks useful to playing Doomsday.  Assuming that I can bring a cheat sheet, is it public knowledge to other players/judges and would they be allowed to see it if asked? 

[feyd]

You can't use gush's alternate casting cost if it was RFG with mind's desire.  You can play it without paying its mana cost or don't play it at all and it will stay RFG.  It doesn't give you options about how to play spells, though.  For instance you can't spend additional mana for a engineered explosives or pay force of will's/gush's alternate casting cost.  However I believe you still have to pay additional costs of playing the spell such as scarscale ritual or something like that.  As for the notes I don't know whether or not that is deemed private information.  So far as I know only your hand, cards in your library, and cards in you sideboard, as well as any/all morphed guys you have are private.

[XxtSundaybxX]

Metman: Timetwister is ridiculous in my opinion, i would not consider playing combo without it...you just have to be careful how you play it. It doesnt play the way it does in long...you cant cast it with B floating and expect to win, not saying it cant happen, just rare. I dont know your exact list, however you could play a second win condition since you cut empty...i personally play 2x tendrils allowing for a mini tendrils if i cant get lethal storm and then win with a follow up tendrils.

As far as Minds Desire goes, it depends on your list...alot of people are not playing enough artifact accel to make it worth playing....i personally dont play mana crypt, solring, or mana vault or mox pearl so the chances of casting it would be slim...i would end up pitching it to force. Second there are not enough bombs in the deck to make a desire for 5 even worth casting, unless you get lucky and reveal a tendrils, your lone tendrils at that.

Doomsday is a card of personal choice. I have tested with it and without it, and it too has won me games. However as much i dont care for it in this list, i do disagree that you need R&D to make it work, It just needs to be protected well.

[M.Solymossy]

I play only Lotus, lotus petal, Mana Crypt, Sapphire, and Jet, and I still can support Desire.  You're playing TTS too much like dedicated combo if you think you don't play enough artifacts for desire.  The deck is really about keeping your opponent down enough to advnance your gameplan until about turn 4, when you win.

I'll debut my list entitled "TTS Future" next month after the Connecticut Tournament.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I've had the pleasure of testing 13nova's list, and can definitely second its consistent ability to cast desire...
...sometimes multiple times in one turn....sac

[M.Solymossy]

It's true, I did desire my whole deck by turn 2 one game.  It was silly, and involved twister, not Yawgmoth's Will.

[Metman]

I run all the artifact acceleration sans Pearl and Vault.  I also run Tolarian Academy because I think that seven or eight artifacts are the minimum required to play it.  Without the artifacts I'm curious how people are able to cast Merchant Scroll in the list, unless of course you don't run more than one or two.  I've really liked MS so I feel obligated to run at least the Petal, Ruby, and Emerald to make sure I can cast it first turn. 

I have only minimal testing with Twister in the deck.  Maybe I was playing it incorrectly.  Every time I cast it I expected to be able to win that turn and it just wasn't happening enough so I cut it.  On the other hand I like how Twister makes the deck even less reliant on the grave.  I'll have to throw it back in the mix.  I'll cut the forsaken Doomsday at least in testing. 

I play only Lotus, lotus petal, Mana Crypt, Sapphire, and Jet, and I still can support Desire.  You're playing TTS too much like dedicated combo if you think you don't play enough artifacts for desire.  The deck is really about keeping your opponent down enough to advance your gameplan until about turn 4, when you win.

I'll debut my list entitled "TTS Future" next month after the Connecticut Tournament.

I've had the pleasure of testing 13nova's list, and can definitely second its consistent ability to cast desire...
...sometimes multiple times in one turn....sac

I know that 13Nova is waiting to reveal his list but I'm curious with the lack of 0cc artifacts how the Desire doesn't clog the hand up.  Is there any insight to the deck you can share without revealing your list?  I've also found Desire not only as a way to just win but a way to refill my hand after a back and forth game of Duresses and Force of Wills.  Revealing Gush and Merchant Scroll with it isn't bad considering you can go from 1-2 cards in your hand after casting Desire to a full grip.  I've found it to be a one sided Timetwister at times and not a card that I cast expecting to win but to advance the game so far in my favor that it's inevitable.

[M.Solymossy]

My version of TTS is all about maximising the effeciency of the cards you draw.  I have never liked drawing Dark Ritual with other builds of TTS, because they never felt like they did anything until you drew tendrils or Yawg-a-tog.  So I've added some cards, changed some numbers, and I think I have a real killer list, that can just overwhelm the painter deck. 

[Metman]

My version of TTS is all about maximising the efficiency of the cards you draw.  I have never liked drawing Dark Ritual with other builds of TTS, because they never felt like they did anything until you drew tendrils or Yawg-a-tog.  So I've added some cards, changed some numbers, and I think I have a real killer list, that can just overwhelm the painter deck. 

Touche, I guess I'll just have to wait and see what you're running until later. 

Without much convincing I've thrown Doomsday from my list and will be retesting the Timetwister.  I curious to get some insight into playing it more efficiently though.  What have people found it's strengths and weaknesses in the deck.  Like mentioned before, it's not a card to cast with a  floating and expect to win.  I had played with Tt in the Gifts lists before the deck got the hack.  It was a great way to erase the grave and pretty much hit the reset button on the game.  This is in opposition to how it was played in Long as a bomb that was expected to help finish the game.  Am I right to assume that it's used in similar fashion in TTS as it was in Gifts?