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Author Topic: Hidden treasures for Vintage (deck ideas, good cards, combos)?  (Read 13779 times)
Sextiger
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« Reply #60 on: February 09, 2008, 07:33:44 pm »

I would love to see Chains of Mephistopheles get some more action.

Dark Confidant+Chains is probably the best you can do with any sort of interaction these days.
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« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2008, 05:05:35 pm »

I am planning to re-examine three ideas in the near future:

1) Eureka + Show and Tell + Elvish Piper (or Oath) + Eladamri's Vineyard + Magus of the Vineyard + 4 Ancient Tomb + 4 Sylvan Library + Titans/DSC/Triskelion/Duplicant

2) Eureka + Sneak Attack + Oath + Survival of the Fittest + Penumbra Wurm/Symbiotic Wurm/Verdant Force (Skull.dec v2.0)

3) Metalworker + Staff + 4 Mindslaver + Welder + Time Vault + Reliquat + Transmute Artifact/Tinker (HyperMUD v2.0)

Because of the sudden tilt towards aggro-control away from fast combo, these ideas could be viable. Fun stuff.

Number 3 seems like it could be a lot of fun to play. I don't suppose you could elaborate on it?
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« Reply #62 on: February 14, 2008, 02:36:54 pm »

Good thread, thought I would chime in.

I always wanted to build a mono white Stax deck.  Basically it would be based around Aven Mindcensor+Ghost Quarter.  I could easily see 3 Wastes, 3 G.Q.'s and 1 Stripmine being a HUGE pain when combined with Crucible and Smokestack.  Stax runs pretty much full acceleration, so casting Aven should be a snap.  Anyone else see potential there?

Mike
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« Reply #63 on: February 14, 2008, 05:24:23 pm »

Culling the Weak is the most insane card that will never have a home.  The constraint of 60 cards and 4 cards per card make this card too inconsistent to ever work, but it's completely insane from an objective perspective. 

I'm going to have to go with Steve on this one.  I've tried to find a way to abuse this card in a deck that doesn't suck..and I've not been able to yet.  There are many ways to abuse this card in a casual Vintage deck, but the decks never seem to cross over into viable territory for me.  I've thought about Suicide/Legend Black builds, but they are soo packed as it is.  Artifact based decks are the next to be loooked at due to the appitite for mana, but they either cheat the artifacts in or power them out with shops and tombs/traitors.
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« Reply #64 on: February 14, 2008, 06:35:45 pm »

I know a way to use culling the weak very nicely in a tendrils decks.  Interested?  :>  Check this out.  My friends has this deck and it's annoying as hell.

4 crookshanks kobolds
4 crimson kobolds
4 kobolds of kher keep
4 phyrexian maurauder
4 shifting wall
4 glimpse of nature
4 culling the weak
2 tendrils of agony
4 land grant
some fetchlands
bayou
2 scapegoat
plus some random other crap

basically plays glimpse of nature then plays all these cheap ass creatures to draw through his deck.  finally he uses culling the weak to get 4 black and presto, tendrils for like 80 turn one.  Hilarious but very, very unreliable.
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« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2008, 01:56:17 am »

Feyd,

My buddy played a very similar deck but ran 4 Xantid Swarm, and some Duress effects for protection.  I think it was a little less reliable (combo-wise); however, quite a bit more resilient to hate.

Peace

Matt
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Duncan
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« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2008, 02:53:20 am »

Klu's draw4 tendrils deck made excellent use of culling the weak and was quite competative. I have played it once in a 30-40 person tournament and top8ed with it. This was something like a year ago however.
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« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2008, 02:27:13 pm »

@madmanmike25
I did some work on a list like this a few years ago after Suppression Field came out, as did I think several others.  It can also make use of Hanna's Custody, which is a great hoser for Goblin Welders, and of course Balance goes in, too.  Unfortunately, the general verdict was that the deck is just a bit underpowered for what you get.  Stable access to white mana allows you to run several good cards, but in general it is better to have access to additional colors since white's options are too limited on its own (in contrast to red, which does have enough options to produce a monocolored Stax deck that's good).

@feyd
Yes, I actually started a thread a while back about that archetype which got quite long and eventually had a spinoff.  Essentially, even with lists much more streamlined than yours (including, for example, some disruption), the deck has two kinds of games:  ones where you have relevant disruption, Glimpse of Nature, and some other gas (including 0-cost creatures) in your opening hand, which means you are almost certainly going to win against almost any opponent, and ones in which you have only some but not all of those things, which means that you are fighting an uphill battle with a deck chock full of worthless 0/1 creatures.  I won't link the thread since it's long obsolete due to matchups/cardpool, but if you're serious about developing the deck, I'd suggest Cabal Therapy, Skullclamp, and Diabolic Edict, all of which were key in past builds.

@dicemanx
I must admit some skepticism about all three of your concepts, but if you really think that there is something there, I would be quite excited to see your analysis.  When do you expect to have something to show?  If I can help with testing at all, also let me know.
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hvndr3d y34r h3x
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« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2008, 11:09:31 pm »

Good thread, thought I would chime in.

I always wanted to build a mono white Stax deck.  Basically it would be based around Aven Mindcensor+Ghost Quarter.  I could easily see 3 Wastes, 3 G.Q.'s and 1 Stripmine being a HUGE pain when combined with Crucible and Smokestack.  Stax runs pretty much full acceleration, so casting Aven should be a snap.  Anyone else see potential there?

Mike
I've actually tested this both outside and inside of stax builds. In short, its too slow to cast mindcensor outside of stax most of the time, and in stax ghost quarters is pretty great on its own. Often times opponents fetch out there 1 or 2 basics vs shop in fear of wasteland, effectively you are now running multiple strip mine. Even testing against decks running up to 6 basics, ghost quarters plus crucible is good, and only gets better with other stax pieces.
Mud with 2x ghost quarters got 5th at the ICBM open#1
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 12:19:47 am by hvndr3d y34r h3x » Logged

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ChemEng
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« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2008, 12:17:57 am »

I would love to see Chains of Mephistopheles get some more action.

Dark Confidant+Chains is probably the best you can do with any sort of interaction these days.
Yep.

Any love for Mana Vortex?
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Burntgerbil
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« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2008, 01:37:28 am »

I have always loved mana vortex. Even with a crucible to keep it alive, I think that most decks could play around it by time it makes it way out.
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Duncan
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« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2008, 05:34:32 am »

Here is the top8 i mentioned:

http://www.magic-hengelo.nl/resultaten/061125%2010-proxy/T8%20decklists.php
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bebe
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« Reply #72 on: February 16, 2008, 09:11:09 am »

Quote

That is pretty much French Tendrils. Andrew (reanimator) and I fooled around with it and it performed quite well at a few tournaments. There is a thread somewhere explaining all the card choices.
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Duncan
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« Reply #73 on: February 16, 2008, 09:45:55 am »

Quote

That is pretty much French Tendrils. Andrew (reanimator) and I fooled around with it and it performed quite well at a few tournaments. There is a thread somewhere explaining all the card choices.
I know. I got it from Djibe (klu) who called it ki.tt.
I couldnt find the thread in a few seconds so i didnt post it.

Anyway, the deck was real fun to play and i think it is one of the best ways to (ab)use culling the weak. It had a fairly high turn 1/2 kill %.
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« Reply #74 on: February 16, 2008, 10:27:37 am »

Klu and his teamates developed the deck and worked on it for about a year and Andrew and I introduced the deck into the canadian meta ... here is the link

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27005.0

it never really took off in Canada but it was a lot of fun to play
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« Reply #75 on: February 17, 2008, 08:54:42 am »

It's actually not because Candelabra needs to be tapped to use (it's from the old days of Mono Artifact, which means once per turn, which is eratta'ed to add a TAP to the cost).

Damn the eratta!!! Sad
It appears that a "tap" cost has been added to the Oracle text. Hmmm, I wonder if that would fall under "power level eratta" (which may be revoked someday)? It certainly explains why Candelabra hardly ever gets played.

Oh well, back to the drawing board.

It's not errata. It has always been that way. Mono artifacts always tapped to indicate that they where used.

I would love to see Chains of Mephistopheles get some more action.

Dark Confidant+Chains is probably the best you can do with any sort of interaction these days.

I'm using Confidant + Chains right now. It's a blast. I also have counterbalance + top which is great against almost every deck.
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sorcutt
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« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2008, 03:32:53 pm »

Solitary Confinement

Oracle text: At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice Solitary Confinement unless you discard a card.
Skip your draw step.
You have shroud. (You can't be the target of spells or abilities.)
Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you.

I've been trying to break this for awhile but I've been unsuccessful.  The obvious inclusion is Dark Confidant.  Another good source of draw would be Jace Beleren.  However anything I attempted just seemed too slow in today's meta.
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Fubar
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« Reply #77 on: February 17, 2008, 09:06:05 pm »



Quote from: Sextiger on February 09, 2008, 05:33:44 PM
Quote from: ChemEng on February 09, 2008, 12:42:03 PM
I would love to see Chains of Mephistopheles get some more action.


Dark Confidant+Chains is probably the best you can do with any sort of interaction these days.


I'm using Confidant + Chains right now. It's a blast. I also have counterbalance + top which is great against almost every deck.

I though chains & bob doesn't jive because Bob does not" draw".  It's a reveal instead.
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« Reply #78 on: February 18, 2008, 05:35:49 am »

I'm sure someone could turn this combo into a scary deck, if they wanted to.

Erayo, Soratami Ascendant + Arcane Laboratory
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Eddie
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« Reply #79 on: February 18, 2008, 06:54:29 am »

Quote
I though chains & bob doesn't jive because Bob does not" draw".  It's a reveal instead.

Yes, and that's why my own draw engine is unaffected. I don't see the problem you have.
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« Reply #80 on: February 18, 2008, 06:20:50 pm »

I just thought of something that may have merit: Artificer's Intuition/Goblin Welder/Phyrexian Dreadnought. This could be like the TNT decks of yore but with blue cards instead of green ones, and 12/12's instead of random utility dudes. You could go a mana denial route with Magus of the Moon/Strips/Stifles (which serve double duty with Nauts) or you could run Juggs and some utility 0/1 casting cost artifacts as a toolbox. You could even run Sensei's Top/Counterbalance.

edit: mmm I just realized that Welding in a Dreadnough doesn't stop its triggered ability (obv). Nevermind I guess, aha.
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Troy_Costisick
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« Reply #81 on: February 22, 2008, 09:53:46 am »

Heya,

What about the viability of a Winter Orb-Lodestone Myr combo in a Workshop deck sporting 9 spheres?

It's been a long time since a prison deck was a potential option.

Peace,

-Troy
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Arsenal
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« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2008, 09:58:07 am »

I would like to see Future Sight (the card) be used.  Unfortunately, due to it's prohibitive casting cost and blue mana requirements, I fear this powerful card will never see proper play.  I'm aware that it saw play back in the days of Keeper and Rector decks, but I was never satisfied with that.  Meh.
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hvndr3d y34r h3x
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« Reply #83 on: February 22, 2008, 02:09:53 pm »

I would like to see Future Sight (the card) be used.  Unfortunately, due to it's prohibitive casting cost and blue mana requirements, I fear this powerful card will never see proper play.  I'm aware that it saw play back in the days of Keeper and Rector decks, but I was never satisfied with that.  Meh.

I've seen this guy getting played in slaver and bomberman lists not to long ago
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« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2008, 11:25:31 pm »

Oh man I can break out my set of blood pets for culling of the weak combo!

My friend tried for the hardest time to break enchantress / squirrel nest / earthcraft deck.  2 card infinite combo thats is awesome way to win.
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the boogie man
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« Reply #85 on: February 29, 2008, 01:27:35 am »

  I feel that solitary confinement + confidant + chains wouldn't be awful, you could toss in tons of duress effects, mana denial, and maybe even tombstalker. you'd need way more ways to get cards, though, and I don't think that phyrexian arena would cut it. maybe sword of f/i or even l/s. They would make confidant pretty scary.
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.

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« Reply #86 on: March 04, 2008, 01:59:09 pm »

Solitary Confinement

Oracle text: At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice Solitary Confinement unless you discard a card.
Skip your draw step.
You have shroud. (You can't be the target of spells or abilities.)
Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you.
For 1G, Elfhame Sanctuary gets you a basic land each upkeep.

Or
Gibbering Descent
Card type: Enchantment

Casting cost: 4BB

Oracle text: At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player loses 1 life and discards a card.
Hellbent - Skip your upkeep step if you have no cards in hand.
Madness 2BB (If you discard this card, you may play it for its madness cost instead of putting it into your graveyard.)

It stops your opponent from setting up a solid hand while your confinement protects you.  The bad news: you see no more cards...ever.
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« Reply #87 on: March 04, 2008, 10:42:45 pm »

Also, just to point it out: Solitary Confinement doesn't protect you from life loss, just damage. Though discarding 2 per turn would put you hellbent pretty quick anyway.
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