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Author Topic: Uba Mask: you will be missed  (Read 2041 times)
vroman
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« on: April 17, 2008, 12:33:29 pm »

wotc may have killed you, but you will live on in my heart forever.

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dawnstrider
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2008, 01:04:27 pm »

im sure this is a dumb question.. but how did they kill uba? cause of gush galore and the tyrants ruling the skies? maybe the Flash in a pan deck? but why is it dead? WHY VROMAN!!!
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vartemis
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 01:28:13 pm »

im sure this is a dumb question.. but how did they kill uba? cause of gush galore and the tyrants ruling the skies? maybe the Flash in a pan deck? but why is it dead? WHY VROMAN!!!

Quote from: Oracle Update
New Uba Mask Oracle wording:
If a player would draw a card, that player removes that card from the game face up with a mask counter on it instead.
Each player may play each card with a mask counter on it he or she removed from the game this turn.

Quote from: Exlanation
If some part of an effect is replaced due to a replacement effect, the source of the effect is unchanged. It doesn't switch over to where the replacement effect came from. This led us to errata Void Maw a while back. Void Maw said "If another creature would be put into a graveyard from play, remove it from the game instead." Then it referred to cards removed from the game "with" Void Maw. But let's say Void Maw is in play and you Terror an Atog. Void Maw doesn't remove that Atog from the game . . . Terror removes it from the game! Void Maw just changed what Terror's effect was. That meant that no cards would be removed from the game "with" Void Maw, and its third ability would never work. It got errata so it could use counters to track the cards removed from the game this way.

Shared Fate and Uba Mask need errata for the same reason. This will change how they work if there are multiples out and one leaves play (for example), but their basic functionality is preserved as closely as possible.

What they nerfed was the ability to weld an uba out for an uba and cause all cards drawn under that uba to be RFG.  Thanks to the last line, you can now play spell removed by another uba, as long as a single uba is out.  Although I dont play shops anymore, this still disturbs me.  This is how it should read:

"If a player would draw a card, that player removes that card from the game face up with a mask counter on it instead.
Each player may play each card removed by uba mask with a mask counter on it he or she removed from the game this turn."

By simply adding "by uba mask" which makes the card refer to itself, the welding trick still works, yet it keeps the functionality that needed to be changed so that the "game" has a record of how these cards came to be RFG.  They should fix Void Maw as well to say "Put a card removed from the game by Void Maw with a corpse counter on it into its owner's graveyard: Void Maw gets +2/+2 until end of turn".


j

« Last Edit: April 17, 2008, 01:39:58 pm by vartemis » Logged
meadbert
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2008, 01:49:26 pm »

The problem is that cards that are RFGed are not RFGed by Uba Mask.  Basically a replacement effect does not change the source of the effect.

If you have Uba Mask out and I cast Brainstorm then my cards are technically RFGed by Brainstorm.

One possibility is to change the rules as Steve suggested in the Mox Diamond thread.  I do not know how this would impact other cards.

Another possibility would be to use imprint and have the RFGed cards be imprinted on Uba Mask.
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T1: Arsenal
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2008, 01:49:32 pm »

Quote
By simply adding "by uba mask" which makes the card refer to itself, the welding trick still works, yet it keeps the functionality that needed to be changed so that the "game" has a record of how these cards came to be RFG.  They should fix Void Maw as well to say "Put a card removed from the game by Void Maw with a corpse counter on it into its owner's graveyard: Void Maw gets +2/+2 until end of turn".


Vroman, my man, you clearly missed the point of this errata.  According to the rules, the Uba Mask doesn't remove anything from the game, whatever effect that caused the draw does.  All Uba Mask does is provide a replacement effect, it's the draw that caused it to be RFG.  So unless you play a card that says "All your artifacts gain the ability T: draw a card" then Uba Mask will never remove a card from the game as the rules are written now.  As you have it written no one can play any cards that ended up RFG because of the Uba Mask effect.

I don't disagree that this is stupid.  
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vroman
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america is doomed

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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2008, 02:05:17 pm »

although I admit Ive delved way overboard on melodrama here, my point is-
ubastax has been 2nd tier at best for like a year now. this errata makes the deck strictly worse, even if subtly so. thus making it that much less attractive to play. Im calling it: ubastax is dead.

it was always easier to get:
active welder + uba in play + uba in yard
than
two active welders + uba in play + any artifact in yard

in fact I can probably count on one hand the number of times I won in tournaments via situation B
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